Acceptable Behaviour and Trip Reports

[Gator]

Daveman,

Agree, Pike could never have written the report.  That was evident.

Most men have stated over the years that comments should be withheld while a man is writing his report, unless he solicits advice.   Leslie made that point almost 5 years ago.

Everyone joins in a discussion after the report  - same as a travel lecture given by a famous traveler at the Nat'l Geographic Society.

Should a report have no discussion?

If you say yes, please consider this.  Tomorrow   someone named Lucky starts posting a trip report.  He did not go to Russia.  The RW came here.  How did he meet her?  The same way that Phantom described his scammer.  Except Lucky sent her $500 and he claims she came.  (play along please).  He has photos, etc.  He describes how they had a wonderful time as he guided her through this strange country America to her symposium on Long Term Care.  Far fetched, yes.  But some newbies would believe it.  And in "sans response" no one can say that Lucky is full of kaka.

As someone else said, most reports are rah rah and we conclude with atta boys.  So who cares.  Yet, some reports need to be discussed to help newbies contemplating the same, and some reporters need the clue bat in case they wish to try again, or something seems questionable about his relationship. 

[philb]

WmGo wrote:
What must be kept in mind is that Pike speaks for no one but Pike. That's it. He doesn't speak for anyone else and he doesn't reflect on anyone else who posts here. This is an anonymous internet forum of people who for the most part do not know each other. To suggest that one person speaks for everyone else or that one person taints everyone else is ridiculous. We all stand or fall on our own merits.

Intellectually, I accept this too.  Unfortunately it is not the way a good portion of the world works.  For better or for worse much of the world judges people on the company they keep (or at least forms some sort of opinion based on this).

Yeah Dave, I want to say "phuck em" too.  Unfortunately reality forces me to make a different response. I am not a big poster by any means (my marriage among other things limits my time for this), but this threads and others like it cause me to reflect upon my participation on this board.

Something else I have considered is this:  I can not count the number of times I have seen guys post that we need to think about how we behave when we are in the FSU (or any foreign country for that matter) because it reflects upon all Americans (substitute the nation of your choice).  Like it or not, Pike, his report, and his behavior reflects upon and diminishes all of us to some degree.

[START2]

Wow, I came in way late on this one. Don't really see what all the fuss is about. I think the TR was installed in the correct space and don't even want to imagine what would have happened if responses were allowed. You guys better count your blessings for that. I read the TR and didn't see anything wrong with it. It's just one mans trip and what he did. True or not. It was up to him what to do, not you guys. You don't need to feel the need to guide him along. Got to admit, that was a helluva plan to meet alot of women. That has to be at the top of the heap for wmvm. The cream of the crop you might say.I was impressed with his stamina. True or not. I'd would have liked to see photos. Soooo, as many of you that hated it and thought it distastefull, how many of you log into it more than once. 1300 views. Must have caught your attention. I read it to. Hated it so much I read every post. Bottom line to all that is, you didn't have to look.
   Dan, you have to admit that there was nothing in that thread that was vulgar. So it ruffled a few feathers. Almost every thread in this forum ruffles someones feathers. Anyone dispute that?
  To those that fear some newbie will happen to come across that thread, so what. How many will actually attempt such a feat? How many of you in the beginning of your search said I'll only go see one gal and in the end wished you'd planned for more?
   That TR does not define this forum. Probably never will. It was good it was closed to comment.
   I don't know about the other forums so I'm at a disadvantage. As far as I'm concerned, this one, for the most part has all the info a guy could want to learn from others.
  I'm still amazed at all who viewed that thread. That has to be a record and it sure filled a few boring hours I found myself with.
  
  

[Simoni]

Censorship is not a good thing, and we don't need it here.

I read some of Pike's report, and was not interested, and quit reading.

Guys--practice self-censorship.  Don't' read what you don't like.

Frankly, I think the bigger problem at RWD is not Pike's report, but the lack of class exhibited by some posters here who attack the opinions of others, calling people idiots, etc. I pity the poor girls such guys might marry.

Trip reports are the opinions of the poster, and da, they should be allowed to post.

[Jazzyclassy]

Oi guys go ahead show yourself in true colours how it was said here:

Your real aim traveling to FSU(only cheap entertainment and extreme of having all the women he can possibly meet during his trip in order to write such trip report here in a very good forum  spoiling this forum from inside)

Your real attitude to women

Your generalisations that all women whom Pike has met are sl-ts

Your culture understands such trips , Russian culture does not understand these things, have some respect towards people please

I can not judge Pike maybe he is an agent as I already told, maybe he is fake personality created in the net in order to shake people and get them all into discussion of something indecent, maybe he simply was brought up somewhere , where there is no society and things...... But all I know for myself, exclusively my point of view , not saying it belongs to everybody here, but as this forum is nice that it takes into consideration every vote

I vote:

I would like this thread to be shut down and deleted as well as Pike's report

Of course only if it is the same old great forum

you know I remember this sentence from his report somewhere .... she told that her period will be finished by that day ..... Disgusting , awful   

Guys do you really wanna listen about women's period and other such things, how men and women do this????????

I thought people had something saint in their lives, but sometimes things make me wonder........

[Lily]

Your culture understands such trips , Russian culture does not understand these things, 
 

you know I remember this sentence from his report somewhere .... she told that her period will be finished by that day ..... Disgusting , awful   

Guys do you really wanna listen about women's period and other such things, how men and women do this????????
 

Jazzy, you just pointed out one cultural difference. Western women seem not to have problems mentioning some physiological things like this one. Many Russian women find it disgusting. I'd never touch on subjects like this one, too.

[Jazzyclassy]

exactly

I mean when you are at home in bed talk to your woman about anything you like, anything which dust is on her panties and so on

if you are with your friend chatting  talk about anything you want

why to shake all these things here , call it monks behaviour or anything but there are people and people and in order to live peacefully within this communitee one should respect the other's feelings,

I have no respect for Pike or whoever he is . Only for the reason that he posted all these disgusting things and made us all look like monkeys and silly weak people , who can not say No to such trip reports

[Kvinna]

Agree, Pike could never have written the report.  That was evident.

do you think RWD members would miss something if this TR wasn't finished? Or you think it is very interesting and useful to learn how to pinch his nipples and how the women get horny after her period?

[KenC]

Jazzy,
At this point, 45% of the voters have no problem with Pike's report.  (To answer the question I think you asked)
KenC

[KenC]

do you think RWD members would miss something if this TR wasn't finished? Or you think it is very interesting and useful to learn how to pinch his nipples and how the women get horny after her period?

Kvinna,
Truth be told, I struggled to read it all and there was a lot of repetitive and useless information in it.  But that does not change his right to make the report unmolested in this case.  It was a report about travels to the fsu and meeting fsu women.  "Tasteless"?  Maybe, but still on topic of this forum.
KenC

[Daveman]

do you think RWD members would miss something if this TR wasn't finished? Or you think it is very interesting and useful to learn how to pinch his nipples and what women get horny after her period?

No one can answer for all the members. Personally I would have missed nothing. It's not interesting to me in the least. However, the topic of discussion should be, what is or is not acceptable according to the TOS about the posts.  If the TOS has been violated, then please point out where. If anyone feels the TOS should be revised, then that is where the focus of discussion should be - concerning whether or not the entire thread should be killed...

As far as commentary, I do believe that any trip report *should* be open for discussion after completion, but I don't make the rules. I am, however, willing to abide by them.

[CaptB]

Bucky,

Years ago on the RWG I suggested at least a delay function for responses in the trip report section. I don't type......only one finger here......but with an unbroken train of thought I can manage about 35 words per minute. As Daveman said.....these are trip reports. I am pretty sure the Admin has stated in the past that attacks and "criticism" would not be allowed in this section. Had comments been allowed on this TR.......I would not have voiced any inappropriateness of such a thread......I would probably PM the Admin.....or Mod.....that I did not believe the subject matter was appropriate for the forum. To answer Ken C's question a million pages back (sorry Ken).......I did not disapprove of the thread particulary
because of any moral issues (I won't push mine on others).......but because this was a "business trip".......and the poster appeared to have no interest in searching for a partner.
And yes......at the very root.....I believe this was the original intent of this forum.

To Dan,

I don't envy your job......trying to please everyone. I own my own business......I deal with it every day. Customer's can be real pi$$y....over the "phone" at times. When someone goes on a real tirade......I go knocking on the door.......face to face. No......not to knock heads.....but it is amazing how different the response......when a face goes with with the voice. Many of these "pi$$y" people........I actually came to like. Here.....not only do we not see faces.......but even (tone) voices. We only have words......they need to be more carefully chosen. I know some of the folks that are currently at each others throats......I would probably like......in person. I have seen alot of personal attacks on this thread.....which the Admin has stated......are not allowed. On the RWG such posts were deleted by mods......for "personal" attacks........not for a "personal" opinion.

I thought the report did not fit into the original conception of what this forum is about:......."searching for a life partner in the FSU". Delete it? Not necessarily. The RWG and this forum both have an "anything goes" section of the forum. Threads are being moved to appropriate sections all of the time. I think the basic problem this thread illustrates is the the Admin needs to determine a more focussed determination of the forum's "mission". My own oppinion is that such a mission statement (brief paragraph) should be prominently displayed on the homepage of the forum. When that is done.....then attending to "other" details......ie appropriate forum threads......will becaome a much easier job.

As Daveman said....these are trip "reports". Allowing someone to gather their thoughts and write for a time.....uninterupted.....could be a good thing. As Gator stated......responses need to be allowed.......for the reasons he stated. Maybe a seven day (just an example) lock-out to responses would allow a small uninterupted writing period for the author. That would be particularly helpful to non-typers....like me....to get a few pages done over a short period of time......before responses are allowed. As to content......if it is not appropriate......move it. "Attacks" in addressing this posters' trip report.....should not have been a problem......"attacks or criticism".....in the reports section.......should just be deleted by Mods......as the Admin has already stated.

A definition of the focus of this particular forum is what is needed at this time......IMHO. The name "Russian Women Discussion" is a perfectly good name for the forum. But there are those who would pull, stretch and knead that title......to fit their "anything goes" attitude. Thus a brief mission statement will dispell any misconceptions of what the forum is really about.


Capt B

[BillyB]

tell me how many women over 40 y.o. (it is the ages-group that attracted mr. Pike) have choosen erotic chat?

At luckylovers 264 Ukrainian/Russian women, 40 and over, chose erotic chat out of 22,053 which is just over 1% of the ladies. 941 chose erotic chat and/or short term relationship which is about 4% of the ladies. 2414 out of 77,673 Russian/Ukrainian ladies age 39 and under chose erotic chat. 6487 ladies chose erotic chat and/or short term relationship which is about 9% of the younger women willing to get nasty over the phone with no emotional strings attached. There are plenty of women at luckylovers made for guys looking for fast action to where they don't need to contact penpal and hard to get girls.

Without discussion, we must make assumptions (and some assumptions are frankly wrong such as Pike is not out of line because he used Lucky Lovers).  Worse than having to make assumptions is that someone can make false misleading statements that stand unchallenged yet could be considered gospel by newbies reading it.
 

Guys have made assumptions that Pike used a marriage agency and hurt sincere women. I have made the effort to get Pike's words without assuming and he once said he knew of freepersonals and luckylovers and before this trip he said he used pay per month sites and some women haven't logged on for a long time. At luckylovers last login is recorded in everyone's profiles. It's safe to say luckylovers is one of the sites if not THE site Pike used.

There has been much talk about having discussion with Pike. But why???? It was tried and failed and people won't believe anything he says in defense of actions and himself since they have already labeled him a liar and deceiver and will make things personal by hurling insults till a thread gets ugly and shut down. Does anybody believe that will be productive? Does anyone believe it will resemble a "discussion"? No matter how much anybody wants a discussion, it's not possible in this situation. If only the members could contain themselves better and ask questions politely, we would have gotten much more info from Pike about the site he used to contact women and the type of women he targeted to make a better judgement if he is hurting sincere women or not.  

If posters want a say, maybe comments after a sans trip report is the only option with a limit of one comment per poster. Any debate worth two cents and more than one comment could be started in another thread.

I've read and reread Pikes posts and tried real hard to understand the argument/assumption that Pike hurt sincere women in which I would be outraged. But I need proof or Pike to admit he did that. Even if he deceived a woman who deceives him, it does not bother me or is proof he hurt, used, and discarded sincere women. The more I read, the more I believe he targeted women that fits right in with him. The type of dating site he used, the eagerness of some women to get physical quickly, and the fact a married woman used him for her pleasure. Pike said, before his visit, "one women sent me 30 photos with each one becoming more provocative". Women can lure the opposite sex for what they want to.

Ken C's question a million pages back (sorry Ken).......I did not disapprove of the thread particulary
because of any moral issues (I won't push mine on others).......but because this was a "business trip".......and the poster appeared to have no interest in searching for a partner.
And yes......at the very root.....I believe this was the original intent of this forum.

CaptB, Pike did mention he was open to the idea of marriage. He did turn down sex from some women because he knew there was no future with him and those ladies in it.

[BillyB]

Here's the quote from Pike I was looking for:

"If I find the right woman, I am open to getting married.  She might be here in FSU, across the street from my house in USA, in Timbucktoo, or where ever.  I haven't promised or mislead these women at all.  All women are on dating sites, not at marriage agencies.  They all check off blocks as to future goals including long term relationships, short term, travel, erotic chats, etc."

Luckylovers has exactly all those options Pike mentioned where one can check off your goals at the site.

Dan, the search engine needs a tune up.

[Lily]

    
I've read and reread Pikes posts and tried real hard to understand the argument/assumption that Pike hurt sincere women in which I would be outraged. But I need proof or Pike to admit he did that. Even if he deceived a woman who deceives him, it does not bother me or is proof he hurt, used, and discarded sincere women. The more I read, the more I believe he targeted women that fits right in with him. 

BillyB, I am with you on this.

I think people who makes opinions about Pike's TR should bring some textual evidence. As far as I could read the opinions, they are almost never substantiated with quotes. 

[Mir]

Some have suggested that the perspective of FSU women should be the deciding factor. Well how many here think that any FSU woman will consider a WMVM/WFVF trip as acceptable? How many are happy to know that the man they correspond with is doing the same with many others?
As to the men who practice/recommend WMVM:
During a date with the lady how many would like to receive a phone call from another one who they are going to see in two days or met two days ago?
How many would be willing for the lady who comes to their flat to be able to view their mailbox?
During a WMVM trip if they meet 10 women in say 15 days and are offered sex by 5, how many will refuse thinking that I will not enter into this till I am sure that she is the one for me?
The focus of this forum is a tricky question.
As it stands it is a Russian Women Discussion board, so all aspects of Russian women within the limit of decency should be open to discussion. If the male participants declare that their intention in meeting RW is to find a partner/wife then this has to be accepted unless it is decided that WMVM is not an acceptable way of going about it. 

[Voyageur]

This is sort of off topic, (And I apologize) but I can't help but think that, with some of the emotions and raw anger shown by the participants of this thread, that living a normal everyday life with a woman from the FSU will be a real trial. As was said before in another thread, you need to have patience and understanding when your woman comes to a totally foreign country, she is leaving everything behind her and will need your clear-headed advice for things you can't imagine. Anger management seems to be a problem with some of us.

Getting so riled up about a difference in philosophy about TR in a public forum shouldn't even be on the radar for someone whom is about to engage in this endeavor.

Philb said:

Yeah Dave, I want to say "phuck em" too.  Unfortunately reality forces me to make a different response. I am not a big poster by any means (my marriage among other things limits my time for this), but this threads and others like it cause me to reflect upon my participation on this board.

Although the Pike TR does not offend me in any way, I can totally relate to Philb's philosophy and thinking about this.

[Turboguy]

Frankly, I think the bigger problem at RWD is not Pike's report, but the lack of class exhibited by some posters here who attack the opinions of others, calling people idiots, etc. I pity the poor girls such guys might marry.

We have been saying much the same thing.  I think first that any guy who imagines things that could be but are not said would have a lot of difficulty in a relationship with a RW.   When the letter that usually arrives at a different time or when he calls and some emergency prevented her from being there it seems to me that suddenly he is going to go crazy thinking about what she MIGHT be doing.  When she casually mentions a friend is coming over I think his first thought is going to be "Who is HE". 

The second thing I would be concerned about is when something is just conversation and all of a sudden the other person is a blooming idiot and the person seems to loose a good part of his self control does that person have the extra patience and understanding it takes to be successful with a RW?

As far as Pike's TR, pike is not a sex tourist.  In the distant past on bored nights surfing the internet I have tripped over a few places that had TR's from sex tourists.   They always use hookers and the reports are more about enthusiasm, positions, actions and price.  Pikes had non of that.   Pike seems to have become the master of WMVM or perhaps if this kind of report becomes more common (I hope not) we need to come up with a new one like WMVMFM.

I have seen trip reports that were worse here.  Some got very graphic such as the guy who described in detail all 6 sessions during one afternoon on a beach.  Some were totally feeding the man's libido.  Some such as the one (Anono maybe) who after finished what he described as a wonderful sexual experience angrily threw the gal out because she lit a cigarette.   Pikes TR did not break new ground, not even close.

Yes, if RWD became a place to discuss how to get laid in the FSU many of us would be looking for a new home.  I don't see that happening.

As far as the no comment part I agree, he could never have posted that if comments were allowed.   If someone wants a TR with no comments he can always write the full TR in Word and paste his complete TR in faster than anyone could read or comment.   I don't see a "no comments" place for TR's as being an important feature.   Sometimes the comments help make a TR more interesting because the writer may not anticipate all the things the members want to know or want to hear.  Most often is is just a cheering section that comments and does not matter one way or the other. 

[IAmZon]

THIS ENTIRE ADVENTURE TAKES A STRONG STOMACH!!!

I think that all parts of the puzzle should be expressed without regard to perception of decorum. 

The shit is already out of the goose! There is a wide perception that men who go to Russia looking for wives are fat, old, losers ... seeking that which they could never "normally" win in their home country.  The is a wide perception (Natashas) that Russian women heartlessly compromise with any man as a ticket out of a desperate situation.

Now, it up to each - individually - to take on stigmas associated with this.

One Pike here or there is nothing compared to a 60 minutes episode, or an article in the New York Times.  Screw it!!!  I am not looking for acceptance.  And it is evident that although some friendships form on RWD, this is a big tent with many conflicting opinions.

[Kvinna]

Some have suggested that the perspective of FSU women should be the deciding factor. Well how many here think that any FSU woman will consider a WMVM/WFVF trip as acceptable? How many are happy to know that the man they correspond with is doing the same with many others?

I think if that WMVM guy says directly about his plan to meet many women, he let those women to deсide if they want to be one of huge amount of his dates or not. At least if you like to write in your profile you are honest one then to be honest till the end even if it limits your possibility to date as many women as you wish.
I presume from Pike's text when he wrote about women asking him if he is going to meet other girls he wasn't too honest  

[Kvinna]

THIS ENTIRE ADVENTURE TAKES A STRONG STOMACH!!!
I think that all parts of the puzzle should be expressed without regard to perception of decorum. 

The *snip* is already out of the goose! There is a wide perception that men who go to Russia looking for wives are fat, old, losers ... seeking that which they could never "normally" win in their home country.  The is a wide perception (Natashas) that Russian women heartlessly compromise with any man as a ticket out of a desperate situation.
Now, it up to each - individually - to take on stigmas associated with this.
One Pike here or there is nothing compared to a 60 minutes episode, or an article in the New York Times.  Screw it!!!  I am not looking for acceptance.  And it is evident that although some friendships form on RWD, this is a big tent with many conflicting opinions.

great post
only tell me, where all those NY and BBC jouralist find the information?

[Mir]

I think if that WMVM guy say directly about his plan to meet many women, he let those women to deсide if they want to be one of huge amount of his date or not. At least if you like to write in your profile you are honest one then to be hones till the end even if it limit your possibility to date as many women as you wish.
I presume from Pike's text when he wrote about women asking him if he is going to meet other girls he wasn't too honest 

And others who do WMVM are(regarding meeting other women)?

[Admin]

great post
only tell me, where all those NY and BBC jouralist find the information?

Kvinna,

I have journalists contacting me frequently. They always (not 'often' - *ALWAYS*) want to discuss their perceptions of the MOB business which is salacious and totally out-of-touch with reality. When I tell them the truth, they usually drift away.

Journalists write for magazines. Editors want material which will sell magazines. Readers want material which interests them. Sex sells. As a consequence, journalists focus on that VERY small percentage of the population which provides them the sensationalism they need to interest their editors and sell magazines - and they ignore the bigger truth.

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

THIS ENTIRE ADVENTURE TAKES A STRONG STOMACH!!!

I think that all parts of the puzzle should be expressed without regard to perception of decorum. 

The *snip* is already out of the goose! There is a wide perception that men who go to Russia looking for wives are fat, old, losers ... seeking that which they could never "normally" win in their home country.  The is a wide perception (Natashas) that Russian women heartlessly compromise with any man as a ticket out of a desperate situation.

Now, it up to each - individually - to take on stigmas associated with this.

One Pike here or there is nothing compared to a 60 minutes episode, or an article in the New York Times.  Screw it!!!  I am not looking for acceptance.  And it is evident that although some friendships form on RWD, this is a big tent with many conflicting opinions.

Well said Riv.

Just don't forget, us fat old losers need love too...

Ken

[Kvinna]

Kvinna,
I have journalists contacting me frequently. They always (not 'often' - *ALWAYS*) want to discuss their perceptions of the MOB business which is salacious and totally out-of-touch with reality. When I tell them the truth, they usually drift away.
- Dan

so nice journalists. I know that some stories from antidate was re-published many times in european newspaper though I never contacted with those nespapers/magazines
and how do you know that Pike stories won't be re-written beyond recognition in some newspaper under name John (55, Florida)