Acceptable Behaviour and Trip Reports

[SANDRO43]

I feel like I'm working in a company that hasn't decided if it's ok to steal each others possessions or if it's ok to sexually harass coworkers. (I'm not insinuating anyone is allowing sexual harassment

Then why are you making such an implicitly-insulting analogy...

- I'm using an analogy of deciding what is acceptable behavior)

... could you not come up with anything more apropos than thieves and harassers ??? .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And, BTW, making the SAME post in 2 different threads only makes you more vociferous, not more credible.

[Bruno]

Wow, I came in way late on this one.
...
True or not. I'd would have liked to see photos.
...
I'm still amazed at all who viewed that thread. That has to be a record and it sure filled a few boring hours I found myself with.

Hmmm... my trip report was with 8404 view ... only Turbo with his First Dream tour have reach more ( 9331 )...

In my case, i was going visit a lady for a official engagment when on place, i have discover that she was with a local man... Since i am a WOVO guy... i have know a interesting adventure with a shop girl... trip report was with photo... but these of the shop girl have shock some here...

It is not a critic but it have allow me to discover that the American society is more closed minded to thing related to sex... in the actual case, Spike have certainly know the reaction that his report will create...

Since we are in a free world, i have no problem with the report, same if i dissagree about how the guy act... the only problem is these separate section where the topic will always be at the top, like if these topic was something important... i think that it will be good to put it back in the normal section, same if it stay closed... so, the time will allow it to sink in the abyss of the archive...

[Simoni]

Kvinna suggests that there is no economic disparity between Western men and FSU women, she says that actually the FSU women are so rich that they can use their wealth to exploit western men.

Mir, Mir! You are still reading Kavina???  I put her on ignore several months ago...stop reading her garbage. And if you don't like Pike's trip reports...don't read them.

It will improve your blood pressure ;-)

[Simoni]

Hmmm... my trip report was with 8404 view ... only Turbo with his First Dream tour have reach more ( 9331 )...

Wow Bruno, over 8000 views! That's a lot of interest, and a lot of views.  For exampe, this thread curently is HOT and has only 2,818 views.

[ScottinCrimea]

Wayne, I too have too much respect for my wife and my daughters to be associated with a group that thinks such behavior is normal and acceptable and should be free to be posted without giving anyone the opportunity to comment or respond to what they deem objectonable.  I'm seriously evaluating the responses and what is the majority opinion.  If I see that the majority here are in opposition to my values, then I will understand that I do not fit in.

[Bruno]

I think if that WMVM guy says directly about his plan to meet many women, he let those women to deсide if they want to be one of huge amount of his dates or not. At least if you like to write in your profile you are honest one then to be honest till the end even if it limits your possibility to date as many women as you wish.

Kvinna, i was a WVMVO, write very many- visit one... always start with 500 to 1000 introduction e-mail... receive between 50 to 100 reply... after one month, stay maybe 10... after 2 month, stay one... a few month after, visit the one...

In ALL case, the RW have not believe that i was visiting only her... some have same say that i was crazy to spend my yearly holiday and money to visit only one woman...

So, same if you are honest, they don't believe you... and what about these RW... in 2005, i was in the Odessa airport from 08h00 until 16h00 ( my departure time )... i have see a lady who seemed in love with her foreign boyfriend... she was crying when he have go throug the custom door... she have stay around 1 hours drinking  piva and going outside for smoke... after this, she have welcome a other foreign boyfriend at the arrival door...

Thing are not very different between men and women, you have wolf everywhere... in the case of Spike, i feel that wolf have meet wolf... so, no hurt for the sheep...

[catzenmouse]

Scott,

 What I am seeing here is a couple of different issues. Not one giant issue.

Wayne, I too have too much respect for my wife and my daughters to be associated with a group that thinks such behavior is normal and acceptable

 This is one issue and I feel that there is a miscommunication/misunderstanding on the part of some members.

 The votes to give someone the right to post their report does not mean that everyone condones the contents of the report or feels that they are to be emulated. It is (IMO) more of a vote against censorship than any kind of a vote for Pike.

and should be free to be posted without giving anyone the opportunity to comment or respond to what they deem objectonable.

 This is the second issue which I think, and it seems others do too, has some valuable discussion coming. There are pro's and con's on allowing responses during a TR and if this particular TR had been of the garden variety no one would have batted an eye that responses were not allowed.

 Yes, I know, this was not a garden variety TR for RWD though not that different in many ways from several other WMVM types of reports we have seen over the years. And, no, I did not care much for the style it was written in nor the author due to some comments that he made early on before this TR.

 In effect there have been a ton of responses to this TR. What are we at here now 20 pages? Plus the other Poll/Thread in the ladies section. If questions were asked in the TR itself do you think any of them would have been answered? I don't. At least not any more than they were in the "Final" post.

 Would posts in the TR have disrupted the TR? Would they have made Pike go away? Would his leaving have felt like a victory for the morality of the board or the individual? Maybe or even probably.

 It has already been mentioned by Dan that there will be some upcoming discussion on how to handle this and as I have always found Dan to be an honest and honorable man that is good enough for me to step back a bit and see what comes.

I'm seriously evaluating the responses and what is the majority opinion.  If I see that the majority here are in opposition to my values, then I will understand that I do not fit in.

 This is the third issue which I have seen from others regarding this TR. It seems that this vote against censorship is being taking as a vote for sexual predators. In all the years I have been around these boards I have never seen a better class of membership than is here at RWD. Sure, we've got some idiots, to some I'm one of the biggest, but they are a very small minority and have a very, very small voice.

 I'll quit rambling now as I can hear the snoring already...

Ken

[William3rd]

It would be a deep misfortune if the membership here decides to "vote with their feet" based on the misadventures of a misbegotten sack of excrement. This board will be a much less vibrant and dynamic place.

However, I can see how many regulars may elect not to come here again after reading the views of the PPP.

I guess we will have to tune in next week to see who is left.

[Kvinna]

Shadow
I am not sure what you think I can't see.
Kavina suggests that there is no economic disparity between Western men and FSU women, she says that actually the FSU women are so rich that they can use their wealth to exploit western men.
I find this suggestion absurd.

OK, let's see how much free money do you have every month after all necessary outpayments? I meant that money you can spent for yourslef not for food and utility bills?

[Admin]

pitty Dan, pitty, I think a such sort of TR can ruin reputation RWD, for seems you have a chance for relating  RWD with sex-tourism
btw, wouldn't admin of  goodwife.com care as his site related with human trafficking on www.senate.gov?
http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/testimony/2004/JacksonTestimony040713.pdf

Kvinna,

Two responses:

1. No thinking person is going to associate RWD with "sex tourism" - not a chance in hell. Of course, I am assuming that "sex tourism" has a DEFINITION (to be determined) which at least reasonably matches the CONNOTATION most here give it. Some sensationalism-mongers may make the attempt to associate RWD with such actions - but you know, and I know, it has not a shred of truth to it.

2. References by the press, the media, the researchers - all this is OLD NEWS. Goodwife.com and Planet-Love.com have been cited in more articles and research papers than I can count. Now that RWD is equally popular, RWD is now appearing in those same articles. I am in contact with a TV station and a professor from a major US university right now - today. So far, none of them have presented a balanced perspective - and except for the blips in popularity and traffic, their reports have proved benign. I truly do not care a twit - UNTIL one of the media outlets finally presents an accurate and balanced assessment.

- Dan

[Admin]

Lets get down to the very basics of this situation:

Please define the purpose or mission of this website

Please amend the TOS of this site based on the above.

Until these 2 actions are done there is no line drawn and we have this grey area where about 40% of the guys on this forum are happy to jump around in or support those that do.

Then each of us can decide if we want to be part of this group. I'm still not sure if I'm part of a sex tourist/casual sex playboy group or a group of people that have their act together on what is considered acceptable behaviour. I feel like I'm working in a company that hasn't decided if it's ok to steal each others possessions or if it's ok to sexually harass coworkers. (I'm not insinuating anyone is allowing sexual harassment - I'm using an analogy of deciding what is acceptable behavior)

I consider myself a responsible person and have worked in many groups and upheld the standards to the betterment of that group. If I saw a loafing or destructive person I would take action to straighten it out with them or see that that persons senior did. Most of us can say we have done the same - to the betterment of the group we were working with.

I am operating on the basis that this group consists of those individuals whose are searching for a longterm/life long partner in the FSU as their PRIMARY purpose and treat women with dignity, honesty and respect and expect and receive the same treatment in return.

Am I correct in assuming this is such a group? If so this same group would not tolerate the actions of Pike and he would be thrown out for the betterment of the group.

If this is not such a group then I must be in the wrong place. Who needs members of a group that will destroy it given freedom to ruin? Should a company or other group allow it members to dirty it's image?  I would quit any job where the "senior staff" and boss tolerated such unacceptable behavior.

Any group in history has failed when it did not uphold an acceptable level of behavior within the group.

I'm suggesting to define the line and then HOLD THE LINE!

I have already committed to developing a summary of the RWD mission and posting it. I made that commitment earlier in this same thread. Did you miss it? Assuming you saw it - are you (and others) planning to harp on the topic like an impetuous child until it is developed? If so, you will be harping for a while, since I committed to a 30-day window.

As for the ToS, I have seen nothing to suggest there is a need to modify the ToS. What did I miss?

As for "HOLD THE LINE" - sheez, why does this sound like clamoring for rules and boundaries ? Yet, in the past, when we establish those - there is clamoring for NO rules or boundaries.

RWD was NOT established for the purposes of "group think." It was established with the recognition that the internet has created unprecedented opportunities for communications across gigantic geographies. That people from those geographies might wish to interact, and even become couples and families. That the obstacles facing those people are significant and maybe, just maybe, a site like RWD could facilitate the process somewhat and ease the burden. It also recognized that, to a very large degree, the people who would be involved in this have a certain 'intrepid' streak and a spirit of adventure. I suppose that we may have missed any need for hard-and-fast rules and guidelines in written form - but even then, over the years, just about anything you can think of will have been commemorated in the exchanges which have occurred - as a COMMUNITY.

As for a "level of behavior" - I pointed you to the forum in which we are working toward a "Code of Conduct" and invited you to play a part. If you replied, I have not yet seen it - but THAT is where your energy should be directed. We also have ALREADY established a guide for some behaviors in that we developed, and published, and promoted an Agency Code of Ethics (ACoE).

Your comments are appreciated - even more if you convert that energy to support for the ongoing projects which could benefit by your energy being directed to help them.

- Dan

[IAmZon]

Is there a term for mob behavior on a discussion board?  Is this not the problem with any tribe?

...RELAX...
...BREATH...
This is not Fox news network.

Crowd!  What holds you together?

That is the COMMON good.  That does not mean it is the TOTAL good.  Just your COMMON good ... and what if THAT is as good as it gets?

[batman]

I have already committed to developing a summary of the RWD mission and posting it. I made that commitment earlier in this same thread. Did you miss it? Assuming you saw it - are you (and others) planning to harp on the topic like an impetuous child until it is developed? If so, you will be harping for a while, since I committed to a 30-day window.

As for the ToS, I have seen nothing to suggest there is a need to modify the ToS. What did I miss?

As for "HOLD THE LINE" - sheez, why does this sound like clamoring for rules and boundaries ? Yet, in the past, when we establish those - there is clamoring for NO rules or boundaries.

RWD was NOT established for the purposes of "group think." It was established with the recognition that the internet has created unprecedented opportunities for communications across gigantic geographies. That people from those geographies might wish to interact, and even become couples and families. That the obstacles facing those people are significant and maybe, just maybe, a site like RWD could facilitate the process somewhat and ease the burden. It also recognized that, to a very large degree, the people who would be involved in this have a certain 'intrepid' streak and a spirit of adventure. I suppose that we may have missed any need for hard-and-fast rules and guidelines in written form - but even then, over the years, just about anything you can think of will have been commemorated in the exchanges which have occurred - as a COMMUNITY.

As for a "level of behavior" - I pointed you to the forum in which we are working toward a "Code of Conduct" and invited you to play a part. If you replied, I have not yet seen it - but THAT is where your energy should be directed. We also have ALREADY established a guide for some behaviors in that we developed, and published, and promoted an Agency Code of Ethics (ACoE).

Your comments are appreciated - even more if you convert that energy to support for the ongoing projects which could benefit by your energy being directed to help them.

- Dan

Dan,

Thanks for your post. I did see your post after my post went through. I was just summerizing what I saw was surfacing in my mind and in the discussion with a few people including your own. I agree the attention and energy should go towards such a project as defining the Mission statement and code of conduct.

Can you PM or post the links. With a bit of an explanation as to how it works on here. Since I've only done this type of work one-on-one/in meeting etc.

[KenC]

Dan,
I suggest you do not bother with rewriting the TOS.  No one is going to agree any way.  I have a much easier solution.  Just have every post routed to the "good people" in Australia and Ukraine for review.  They will then in turn repost it with what we really meant to say (removing all lies and adding their assumed meanings).  I am sure with their psychic powers, they can clean this all up in no time.  Of course some of the posts may not make it through their filtering system at all because the topic wasn't acceptable to them.  Pity poor Jack because none of his photos will ever make the cut.
KenC

[ScottinCrimea]

KenC, You are way off base.  Now it is you that are making the assumptions and trying to be the psychic. If you took the time to read what I have written, you maybe will understand that I didn't object to Pike posting his TR, I objected to it being sans response where I was censored from being able to respond.  Sure I don't agree with a lot of what is posted here, same as you, but without the opportunity to express what I disagree with and why, it can easily appear that I at a minimum condone such things.  Imagine as a worst case scenario that Kuna and I were allowed to post our comments and you were barred from responding.  For a guy like you who always has to have the last word, it would be sheer torture. I think you wouldn't stay on the forum long.

[KenC]

25 pages of debate and you feel as though you were censored?
 

[catzenmouse]

I think we are well beyond the points that were made. They have been made, and made again, and again, and again.

The time has come to go back to "grown up" mode and let it lie and let Dan and the mods do their thing.

Ken

[ScottinCrimea]

KenC, I was basically told to take my comments somewhere else.  What do you call it?

[catzenmouse]

KenC, I was basically told to take my comments somewhere else.  What do you call it?

Scott,

 Can you explain this a bit for me? Who told you to take your comments somewhere else? If I have given you that impression it is not what I meant to do. I like your posts and your opinions but I think this particular thread needs a "time out".

Ken

[KenC]

KenC, I was basically told to take my comments somewhere else.  What do you call it?

Before you only wanted to control what people were allowed to post and now you also want to control where?  That's the problem with the censorship that YOU promote here, there is no end to it once you start forcing your thoughts, morals and values on others.  Scott, I have some advice for you.  Live your life as you see fit and have the tolerance to understand that others may live theirs differently.
KenC

[ScottinCrimea]

Okay KenC, show me where I said that I wanted to control what people were allowed to post.  Back it up, man!  As far as controlling where people can post, I just would like to at least be in the general vicinity.  I'm forced into a different thread in a different section of the forum.  Whether or not someone happens to link the two to see my comments is anybody's guess.

Catzenmouse, I hope this explains my previous comment.  My gripe here is that for all KenC's grandiose statements about making assumptions and condemning everyone else for this, we find him feeling perfectly justified in doing the exact same thing.  The word hypocrit comes to mind.

[KenC]

Okay KenC, show me where I said that I wanted to control what people were allowed to post.  Back it up, man!   As far as controlling where people can post, I just would like to at least be in the general vicinity.  I'm forced into a different thread in a different section of the forum.  Whether or not someone happens to link the two to see my comments is anybody's guess.

Catzenmouse, I hope this explains my previous comment.  My gripe here is that for all KenC's grandiose statements about making assumptions and condemning everyone else for this, we find him feeling perfectly justified in doing the exact same thing.  The word hypocrit comes to mind.

Scott,
First of all I hate when people steal your ideas and then turn around and use them on you!  Be original, man!

Seriously though I could do without the name calling.

Every single point I have made in this thread is backed up in the facts of Pike's report.  I made one error when I failed to remember that he was put out by one of the RW getting a call from another English speaking man.  But that's it!  And you can look it all up with rereading the Pike report you so dearly love.

You said (either upthread or on the other)  that you never condoned changing the TOS.  Right?  But you do condone changing the rules here which is the same thing.  And do you remember this little gem?

This board cannot be everything to all people.  We need to decide what our focus is and delete those that do not fit with our stated goal.

Isn't "deleting someone" kind of sort of controling what they are allowed to post?  Kind of wants to make you go hmmmm?
KenC

[ScottinCrimea]

Okay, KenC, you are losing it.  I can be as original as necessary, but I was trying to present it in a way that you might understand.  Is that the best you can do?  Instead of rising up to the challenge, you sink to diverting the issue by questioning my originality.  Not much effrot there.

Okay, now we are going to really get into it.  You ascribe this quote to me:

"This board cannot be everything to all people.  We need to decide what our focus is and delete those that do not fit with our stated goal."

I definitely could not recall saying any such thing, so when I looked for the source of the quote I saw that it was conspicuously missing.  Every other time you have quoted me, my name is prominently displayed at the top of the quote, but this case was different.  So I searched all of my posts going back about a month and I still couldn't find anywhere that I said this.  In fact, I found this quote:

"I think members should be able to post whatever details about their activities they choose, within reason of course, but they must expect to get comments  both good and bad.  If they think everyone will just cheer them on, they haven't been around here very long.  If they aren't prepared for the negative comments, then they need to either rethink their activities or their posts."

So KenC, prove to me that I was the author of this quote or admit that you are fabricating lies to advance your opinion.  If you are stooping to such a level, that is beyond contemptible.

[KenC]

39   RWD Discussion Groups / Trip Reports and Photos / Re: Acceptable Behaviour and Trip Reports  on: June 25, 2007, 11:38:22 PM 
Daveman,  I agree.  This board cannot be everything to all people.  We need to decide what our focus is and delete those that do not fit with our stated goal.

Scott,
You can now apologize.
KenC

[KenC]

Hello?  Scott?  Whatsamatter cat got your tongue?