Ladies Only - Sex Tourism Poll

[catzenmouse]

We need a new rule.  If a man makes more than two posts in this "Ask the Ladies" forum that are not directed specifically to a RW, he should post his photo wearing a skirt.

D@mn Gator! I thought those picture were only going to be for you....

[SANDRO43]

We need a new rule.  If a man makes more than two posts in this "Ask the Ladies" forum that are not directed specifically to a RW, he should post his photo wearing a skirt.

Unfair, unfair ! Why should the Scots enjoy preferential treatment ?

[ScottinCrimea]

There are many members here that I wouldn't cross the street to meet in person as well as some that I would travel across the nation to meet.  This RWD club is very diverse and ultimately we have no control over who joins.  We are banded together with some commonalities.  Some more than others.  But what we cannot do IMO is to force our values, morals and opinions on others that think differently.  We can give our side of the issues and support them with logic and common sense (or in some cases emotion and bravado) , but in the end, it is every members own right to decide these things for himself.  No amount of censorship or accountability will change that.  People are who they are and no amount of posts here are going to change them.  We have to accept those that might think a little different from us as long as they follow the rules of the forum (TOS)  If you start playing games with the TOS here, where does it stop?  Do we amend the TOS to eliminate those who go on a WMVM because we don't agree with their methods?  Or do we amend the TOS to eliminate those men that travel to small villages to take advantage of some desperate and naive village girl?  Do we exclude the men that line RW up like cattle and pick the prettiest one?  Hell, I can go on and on about the people that should be excluded, but then I would just end up talking to myself.
KenC

KenC, I don't disagree with what you say here other than that you are giving the impression that I spoke of changing the TOS.  Please read my posts again (No assumptions this time) and note that not one time have I ever even mentioned the TOS.  You are linking me to every arguement that you disagree with on this post and that's just plain wrong.

[Photo Guy]

I've skimmed through this post. I've not read the Pike report.
Hey- Looks like he may have said some things that can be interpreted as
'degrading to women'. Oh. Okay.

So what do you do with that?  I think shutting him down and banning
that (sex tourist?) kind of trip report, would be a huge mistake.
Especially in the context of limiting Free Speech.  The only thing
worse than posting degrading remarks, is the implementation of
severe censorship, in my opinion.

Let him post and let us point out the stupidy or validity of
his ways. Public debate and scutiny are important tools
for understanding a topic and reaching well thought-out
conclusions.  And in Pike's case, maybe we can construct
a social stigma against his bad behavior, if that's the
general consensus.

...and if you think sex tourism is an offensive endeavor, just
take a good look at the genocide in Darfur, to put things in perspective.

Sometimes sex tourism involves a 'victim' and other times it's
just an eager paprticipant (soulmate...fleshmate) 

[ScottinCrimea]

Gator, I don't have any photos of me in a skirt.  Would a thong be acceptable?

[KenC]

Gator, I don't have any photos of me in a skirt.  Would a thong be acceptable?

EWWWWWW!

[ScottinCrimea]

EWWWWWW!

Censorship!!!!!!!!!

[Daveman]

I hereby PETITION management for an IMMEDIATE revision of the TOS to forbid photos of men in thongs (unless the ladies want them) but if that is the case, management must supply each of us with a keyboard/mouse warning shaker system if we go near to threads containing such photos...

I have changed sides! I want censorship! major censorship! 

Piss on free speech!!

[Lily]

Can one of the ladies that voted here fill us in on the score?
KenC

afraid I don't get you..what do you mean please?

[Lily]

 I would call Pike a sex tourist because 1) he did not seek emotional involvement 

I think Gator would be willing to provide a quote from the TR for a proof of this?

[KenC]

afraid I don't get you..what do you mean please?

Lily,
Only the members who have voted can see the results.  As the poll is for women only, I cannot vote or see the results.  How many voted for each?
KenC

[ScottinCrimea]

KenC, just click on the little blue words "view results" and you can see them without voting.

[KenC]

KenC, just click on the little blue words "view results" and you can see them without voting.

Thanks Scott, I didn't know that.  It is running almost the same as the other.  A little lighter for than against, but still close.
KenC

[Lily]

For this point of time:

Yes  9 (56.3%)
No  7 (43.8%)
 
Total Voters: 16

[Lily]

Scenario 1

Single WM lives in FSU for minimum 6 months. Has sex with 3 FSU women, marries none. Sex tourist?

Scenario 2

Married WM lives in FSU for minimum 6 months. Has sex with 3 FSU women, marries none (already married). Sex tourist?

Scenario 3

Single WM visits FSU for 2 weeks. Has sex with 1 FSU woman. Does not marry her. Sex tourist?

Scenario 4

Single WM visits FSU for 2 weeks. Has sex with 5 FSU women. Marries one of them. Sex tourist?

Scenario 5

Single WM visits FSU on business on 3 occasions, staying 3 weeks each visit. Has sex with 1 prostitute and 1 'normal' FSU women. Marries none. Sex tourist?

.
.
.
.
.
OK - you get the idea. Make up your own scenarios - and let's see if we can 'bracket' the ends of the spectrum, and then begin to converge on a behavioral definition of what constitutes a "sex tourist."

- Dan
 

Every of these scenarios, except the married,  lack at least one important component - whether the men declare that they are open for commitment.

If a man states that he really is, I would probably assume he is looking and evaluating. By declaring his openness, he does not undertake an obligation to marry the woman if she is not right for him. That would be stupid. If the man is back home from the trip without engagement, that means that he has not find the right woman and remains on the market. That's it.

[Kvinna]

A man arrives in Kiev and stays 7 days, meets a girl everyday and on day 4 sleeps with her first time. Keen to explore more he goes to Odessa for 7 days and repeats the same and then goes to Lviv and the same. Each time he feels affection for the women but he has to find the best so he keeps trying the next. His intentions are pure to find the wife but he can't decide after just the first girl can he?
Some will say he is a genuine WMVM and others will label him a sex tourist.

Promiscuity is the practice of making relatively casual and indiscriminate choices. The term is most commonly applied to sexual behavior, where it refers to a person who does not limit their sex life to the cultural norm, typically one partner, or to the framework of a long term monogamous sexual relationship. Because of the popularity of this usage, the remainder of this article discusses sexual promiscuity. People who are called "promiscuous" under this usage, may in fact be quite selective in their choice of sexual partners.

as minimum you described this type of behavior, though maybe for "american grooms" this is a norm

[Gator]

Lilly,

You are doing a great job of moderating this group of threads.  Pike’s story has required much extra effort.
 
You asked for something from me and I am responding.

I would call Pike a sex tourist because 1) he did not seek emotional involvement 

I think Gator would be willing to provide a quote from the TR for a proof of this?

Not only is Pike a sex tourist, I contend that he suffers from sexual addiction as I will expalin in this post.

The following are 10 statements Pike made at RWD.  When viewed together, I think the pattern is evident.  Pike is seeking physical fulfillment and not an emotional relationship. He ignores all the ethereal qualities of a woman and concentrates on her physical beauty.   

Why?  He admits he can only “perform” with women of a certain physical quality.   How he relates to her emotionally has no bearing, suggesting that he does not relate emotionally, because any man knows an emotional connection enhances everything.

He has been around so long in the FSU that he recognizes many of the Planet Love posters at RWD from years, years ago (even before my time).   And yet in all of these years ( what 6, 7, 8, 9…?) he has not found one woman to love or at least to enter a long term relationship.

His words and I see no need to elaborate my impressions.

1.  This is not a wife hunting trip.  I am here on business for 6 weeks.  I like women.  I date women everywhere.  There just happen to be more available here in FSU than most everywhere else.

2.  All women are on dating sites, not at marriage agencies.

3.  Well here we were on next date, but as I noted earlier, I just wasn’t strongly attracted to her in a sexual sense.  I was pretty sure now at end of date 2 that I liked her similarly to a couple of my female first cousins who I could talk to for hours about everything under the sun.

4.  I get plenty of takers of the type, make and model that I want.

5.  Actually, for my age range of 40s, the pickings there aren't too good.  Most of the ladies of that age are 15 to 25 pounds overweight.

6. I don't like huge boobs.  Cup B is large enough.  Anything larger and there is a serious sag problem.  What about the rest of you guys?

7. I am constantly criticised by women because I will not date those that are pleasantly plump and beyond.  But it is very simple.  My equipment will not perform for such women.  They contend that if I want sex enough, everything will work.  However, it is not true; at least for me.

8. Even with those who have been just friends of mine (male or female), when I realize they are listening to my advice in my area of speciality and then doing the opposite, I can no longer think of them as good friends.  They are, in effect, saying they do not respect and value me or my knowledge.

9.  Keep your options open, right up to the time you propose and slip the engagement ring on the finger.

10.  I am arranging meetings now with many women on a WMVM trip.   These women are all in their 40s.  For those coming from nearby cities, I have given them the choice of a one day visit or a two day visit with them staying in my apt overnight. Without exception, the doctors, dentists, professors, … etc., opted for the two day stay.  Without exception, the ones who had education at the college or technical school level … chose the one day visit . . . I know, I know . . . doesn't mean that sex will happen, but it always has in the past.

There may be better because I admit I read only half of his report.  If you want more quotes from Pike, read Albert’s posts.

I probably have said worse, but mine I hope were in an attempt at humor.  Pike is absolutely humorless, so everthing can be taken at face value.

The report he made occurred over a period of one month (not six weeks) in Dnepropetrovsk with women visiting from all around.  How many women did he meet? I don’t know.  How many did he sleep with?  Six. As Pike says, this is not a large number for men into casual sex.   What is key to me is that he did these women concurrently, not moving to another because the relationship seemed  dead-ended, but because he could not stay with the same woman for more than 2-3 days before tiring of her (or his equipment tiring).  He needed something fresh. 

I am perhaps older than Pike (I fear), yet I fully know that the more involved I am with a women (and especially her with me), the more we feed off of each other’s mind and soul as well as body. Three dimensional sexual experience - not wham, bam, thank you mam’.  And the sex is about sharing joy and expressing feelings.  Such a  relationship has me returning temporarily to my 20s as far as what happens physically. 

Pike with all his experience with women should know this.   Instead, Pike shows signs to me of a man who has a problem – sexual addiction.  It is a problem as real as a gambling addiction.  And such men are not interested in emotional involvement and can not stay in a long term relationship. 

I have no explicit proof to support my statement of sexual addiction.  No quote from Pike admitting it. Nor am I a psychiatrist.  Yet I can read, I can research, I have discussed sex with men, with a psychiatrist, with even better resources (women who have know sexual addicts), and I am not an idiot. 

Behaviors associated with sexual addiction include:

Compulsive masturbation
Multiple affairs (extra-marital affairs)
Multiple or anonymous sexual partners and/or one-night stands
Consistent use of pornography
Unsafe sex
Phone or computer sex (cybersex)
Prostitution or use of prostitutes
Exhibitionism
Obsessive dating through personal ads
Voyeurism (watching others)
Sexual harassment
Molestation/rape

Pike/Albert has described some of these in his posts, and many of course would never be mentioned.

Believe whatever you wish to believe.  Call it a compulsion.  Call it promiscuity rather than sexual addiction.  Call it casual sex of a pattern repeated for 5,7,10 years.  Whatever, it sure ain't love.

It is evident to me that Pike is not seriously striving to develop an enduring, loving relationship.  On the contrary, he is avoiding one.  So Lilly, would you like someone to send you Pike’s email address?

Do I sound like Kuna?  BTW, Pike struck a nerve with Kuna a long time before Pike wrote his report.

[2tallbill]

Lily,
Only the members who have voted can see the results.  As the poll is for women only, I cannot vote or see the results.  How many voted for each?
KenC

Ken if you look at the poll there is a view results button. It wasn't there when this thread started but it's there now.

Bill

[sveta29]

I read the trip report and agree this is very disgusting. I don't think this kind of report not be on this site cos it offend me and is not decent.

[Lily]

Welcome sveta29,

I see this is your 1st post. Appreciate your participation! 

Probably you could also substantiate your opinion with examples from the TR?

[Mir]

At least it is increasing the number of female members.
New ones are joining just to give the thumbs down on the TR

[sveta29]

Hello Lily,

Thanks 
I heard about this man's trip report from a friend and I read it and was compelled to give my opinion. One of the points I found disgusting is the reference to young girls being filmed by this man and him writing about it like was some porno and his enjoyment of it all. What does it have to do with anything? it is rather offensive and should be kept to more lower grade websites. Just my opinion 

Take care 

Sveta

[Kvinna]

Probably you could also substantiate your opinion with examples from the TR?

Come on, Lily
we are not in school and you are not a teacher to ask for substantiates of our impression

[CLB1973]

I agree with Gator's post.

[KenC]

Come on, Lily
we are not in school and you are not a teacher to ask for substantiates of our impression

Kvinna,
There has been a rash of unsubstantiated and sensationalized claims regarding Pike's post and Lily , as moderator of this section, has every right to ask for substantiation of the claims.  Which, by the way, Sveta did.  Good call, Lily!
KenC