Trying to understand this process

[ronthebikeguy]

Hello Everyone,

Please forgive me, I am a software designer so I always try to break large problems into smaller ones so I can solve them and address each individually. I have read several threads and I am trying to understand this process. I really want to understand how it flows so I can make it more digestible.

• Basically, this site is a non agency site that only does forums and message boards. They might have an agency, but they dont push it and allow anyone to discuss any agency or experiences they have had.
• Elenasmodels seems to be a popular and positive reviewed agency.
• Agencies find the girls in Russia by word of mouth or by newspaper ads. Do the girls pay anything to be listed in the agency? If they do, how much do they pay? What are the expectations from being listed? Do they need to go in and get interviewed? Do they expect to find an American Husband or do they just want a husband outside of Russia? Is it just a 'non-Russia' type of dating service?
• Based on some of the threads, I signed up (free registration option) on elenamodels, but did not include a picture. Based just on my profile answers, I have gotten 8 emails in the first 24 hours. I havent read any of them, because I have not paid anything, but they are sitting there. This brings me to a question.
• How bad can it possibly be in Russia? I checked a few of the Geo Fact Books and see that the economy is not that great, but that still begs the understanding at why are the women on that site so active? To get this many responses from a dating ad in the USA this quick, without a picture is unheard of. Why do women want to get out of Russia so badly? I have never been, but I have been through Europe. The thing that struck me is that the standard of living is much lower there. Do they understand that and just want a better life? Is there a stigma with dating people outside of Russia? Is it a better way to find romance?
• To the consumers: What is your first and general impression of Russian women? Do you find them gentle and timid or do you find them harsh and blunt? Just curious about this. I found quite a lot of French women very blunt and almost harsh. What sort of expectations do you have and do they have based on geography alone?
• After you pay the membership to elanas, you then get access to direct contact with the women you choose. Then, if you want to meet, you need to fly to Russia and do some introductions. This is usually taken care of by the agency you used in the first place. So if I started chatting with a few women that I liked, I would contact Elena's and schedule a trip with them.
• These trips usually cost around $4000-5000 when its all said and done. After the initial emails and introduction, you no longer need Elenas and you go from there on your own.
• Why dont more Russian women post on boards like these and just get the whole agency thing out of the way?
• What expectations of success do Russian women have by signing up for an agency? Is it a longshot.. is it a sure thing.. is it just a chance at a better life and its worth that small chance?
• Do you find Russian women more family oriented than the general American woman? Should I expect to find love and then when we get back here she goes out drinking every night or should I expect more family and home orientation?
• Where is the bread and butter for agencies? Do they make the most amount of their money from the email sign ups or from the trips? With a price tag like $500 I really assume that they are a no joke sort of business or they are a full scam. Based on other posts, I believe they are the real deal
• What can I expect from answering these emails? Are they husband hunting.. penpal hunting... phone tag hunting. or see me as an opportunity for love with someone outside of their country and a possible better life?

Thank you in advance for the replies and any insight you can give me into this.

[Lily]

 Hello ronthebikeguy  ,

To break a large problem into smaller ones is a wise approach indeed. 

 On your 3rd:

I am not listed with any agency, but my understanding of their work is that anyone can choose to be a paying member, irrespectively from gender. If you are, you should be able to send some meaningful messages to the person that is of your interest, and you should be able to receive a meaningful reaction. A non-paying member - women seem to choose this option only - can only send an Expression of interest without any possibility to communicate their personal contacts to the other in any way. A blind Expression of interest option can only draw attention to the sender's profile. In order to get the sender's contact, at least one party has to be paying.
This is not my experience, I just asked questions by myself and that's what I learned.

On your 4th

I am very surprised at the fact that people contacted your profile without a photo.


on your 9th (why don't women post here)

My opinion would be that they should to! Your thoughts are right. One hint to you and all the men: please please use your photos as avatars! A Elena's profile photo and eventually the profile number are appreciated as the women could go straight there and read about you.

My opinion on why don't they post would be that probably some women may just be passive and wait for being contacted, some may not have easy access to Internet, some may have problems with English, some may be very inadept in written communication.

I think that you could find the other answers reading this forum.

[ronthebikeguy]

Thank you for the quick response! I am reading threads like crazy and trying to understand how the interaction works. I rarely see money being discussed (as it normally would never be discussed in a proper discussion, so I would like to spill it out now).

Being totally anonymous, I would also enjoy being very truthful about the situation. How much does money come into play? Does our salary have a large thing to do with things? Would Russian women have a satisfying life without a huge house?

Let me give you an example:

I am 37 and I make around $200,000 a year. Is this enough to satisfy someone from Russia that has advertised on the agencies. In other words, what are the expectations from them of advertising themselves? Do they expect millionaires and limos or do they expect run of the mill guys that are genuine? I wanted to delve into this because I live rather modestly. I live in an apartment/condo downtown of a very cool little beach town. I chose this rather than some large house out in the country. I just get to lonely living out in the boon docks and prefer a much more lively area to live in. I work from home about half the time and enjoy the proximity of my residence to the community. I can walk to the grocery, to the beach, to pubs, etc.

Also, on the attractiveness front. I am a pretty decent looking guy, I have no problem picking up women, but the age and computer business has shown a bit. I am a little pudgy, but not crazy overweight. I do have some extra though. Is this something that I should be aware of as well? In general, when I lived in the Netherlands for about 9 months, not a soul was overweight even in the slightest. Should I be aware of that and be upfront with that as well? I go to the gym regularly, but I think I will never avoid this if I do not make working out my full time job.. and it doesnt pay as well, 

[Kvinna]

Let me give you an example:
I am 37 and I make around $200,000 a year. Is this enough to satisfy someone from Russia that has advertised on the agencies.

mm it is enough to satisfy agency's owners
they are satisfied already with your registration knowing you have a bank account, so they will send you messages "from women" only to catch your attention  and make you write and pay, write and pay. The important thing is to not let you be stuck on only one girl.
But I think they have a good stuff of their own writers + writers from small agencies affiliate with EM for example, or AW

[ronthebikeguy]

So do you think the 'emails' are just a scam? Just a way for me to sign up? I have read on here where guys have gotten 2-300 emails from women. New to this arena, but seasoned in the American dating arena.. that is just crazy!

I think my skepticism is really based on the to good to be true methodology. I see women on that site, that are very attractive and 25 years old that have "to 50" in their profiles. That is a very large age difference in my opinion. Yes, its fine, but is it really true?

[Lily]

Kvinna, very good post!   I largely smiled when reading  

[Lily]

ronthebikeguy, you will find here some accurate figures on what does the whole entreprise cost.

On your other questions: it is a very very very individual issue on what things could be ok for this particular woman.

I still tend to believe that many good women look for the man they could love first. Love comes first. Their other requirements may vary.

There may be women out there who never seen a live millionaire or a limo.
There may be women who buy their vacations at the expensive resorts.

On the appearance thing: the physical tastes of women may also vary a lot. Some like it slender, some like it sturdy. Despite your age and profession, I could tell you one thing: you are the person who is responsible for your attractivity.

[Kvinna]

Yes, its fine, but is it really true?

Pay and check it up is the only way to learn

[ronthebikeguy]

Thank you for the prompt replies. I appreciate it.

I gather then, that is it much like dating in America.. each girl is different than the next.

[I/O]

Ron:  Elenas is a relatively genuine site so far as introduction sites go.  I have met the owner and she is quite passionate about what she does, but you must remember her history is sales and marketing and she is very good at what she does. Her and her husband live reasonably nearby to me. 

What you need to understand from the get go is the millions of women wanting to leave Russia is utter nonsense. Marketing jibberish.  Certainly there is still something of a higher percentage of marriagable women in Russia than men, but it is nowhere near the level portrayed by the introduction sites.

Elenas does do a bit towards getting rid of the scammers on the site, but be realistic, 8 emails, no photo, go figure. You will find, if you pursue the process seriously, it is a long hard road with every chance of failure or disappointment.  Can you find something different in Russia or the FSU from USA or Aus or other country? Yes definitely.  Many have, but almost all will tell you it was a difficult process. 

The genuine Russian women are NOT lined up waiting for the knight to arrive and rescue them from poverty. Be very clear in your mind that the lady who will fit your life and vica versa will be fairly difficult to convince that she should leave her homeland. Just like anyone else, she wants the whole package.  Financial advantage will help secure the underlying logistical process, but it won't win the heart of a decent woman alone. 

You've drawn an example of the French women and IMO and IME Russian women are not remotely similar. (Generally speaking) Strong characters yes, strong willed yes but often well educated, well dressed, well versed in culture and history and generally quite refind so to say.  The Russian women I know are NOT about to bow and scrape to your every wim and fancy.  They are NOT home bodies, although they do take great pride in their domestic skills.

If you are looking for a "Class Act" in every sense of the word, certainly you can find that in Russia or other FSU area, but you better be sure you are a "Class Act" also or you will have your arse chewed and handed to you before you can turn around twice. 

Back to Elenas.  Yes as internet sites go, it is probably as good as it gets.  Remember you will spend a goodly amount of time, money and emotions before you find Miss Wonderful.  The one who is in love in 3 emails is probably only scammer software writing back to you.  Be warned, be ware, be patient and BE INVOLVED here.  This IMO is one of the best, if not the best resources for men considering this pursuit.  Some will give it to you a little rough, but they will generally give it to you as it is.

Before you go one inch further, read the FAQ section here twice.  It was put together by guys who know their stuff. Guys who are married to Russian women and Guys who have spent a lot of time in Russia.

All the best.

I/O   

[Rvrwind]

they are satisfied already with your registration knowing you have a bank account, so they will send you messages "from women" only to catch your attention  and make you write and pay, write and pay. The important thing is to not let you be stuck on only one girl.

Here we go again!!
ronthebikeguy...contrary to the above opinion, all agencies DO NOT operate like this, yes, many do, mostly the larger ones. There are a few smaller agencies that are totally legit & in that regard I point you to the Reviews section of this board, the Topsite list & the CMA. Left column menu.
There you will find honest agencies that will give you your dollars worth & not cheat you..
Yes, most agencies allow the women to join free, to me this gives the women no incentive to participate or to be responsible in their search. An agency that makes the ladies pay tends to be able to weed out the Riff Raff & have only the most sincere of women in thier agency. Women don't "Pay to Play!!"
Keep that in mind while searching.
Beyond that, research is paramount. Any honest agency will be quite willing to answer any & all questions & will have a good following. Be wary of the big agencies, they didn't get big by being honest or knowing their ladies. Also be wary of affiliates of larger agencies.
It has always baffled me why if a big agency is so good, why the affiliates do not scream it from the rooftops & post it all over their websites. Maybe because they are not so good & the fact that they hide the fact that they are an affiliate only reinforces that in my mind.
You've come to the right place, read, read & read some more. Ask questions, for the most part people here will put you on the straight & narrow & give you good advice.
Good luck in your search.

[ronthebikeguy]

Excellent responses guys and gals.

To the guys:

Then, it sounds like dating via any agency is just as rough, if not rougher than dating here at home. Because its much more expensive and timely.  What is the advantage? Is the overall quality better? If so, then is it that much better? Enough to justify all this? If they need convincing to leave the country, what is the purpose in putting yourselves through that?

[Kvinna]

honest agency

there isn't any honest agency, otherwise it takes money from customers only after wedding
or maybe you don't take money for correspondence?

[Lily]

ronthebikeguy...contrary to the above opinion, all agencies DO NOT operate like this, yes, many do, mostly the larger ones.  
 

Rvrwind, what way, in your opinion, could those 8 emails come to him? Sort of automatic spam? I really dont think that women could really react to an uninteresting profile.

[DKMM]

If I could throw in my two cents here.

Ron, given what I already know about you, your best bet is to give a good agency a try and 1. write some girls there from the same area 2. plan to go visit sometime near soon, say september.  At the very least you will have an amazing vacation and satisfy your curiousity at once.

My one liner to newbies is that this is much more difficult than 1st imagined but much more rewarding as well.

These women are WAAYYY better than you would ever find here and that's a fact.  If you are better than what they can find at home is another question and only by going there will you know.

[DKMM]

Utter rubbish Kvinna, having used Rvrwind's agency myself I'd say I spent a very small amount to write and meet 100% genuine women.  His agency is nothing but an honest dating service that serves both the women and men.  Had I not fell for my girl my 1st day in Moscow I would have most likely ended up with one of his.

[I/O]

Excellent responses guys and gals.

To the guys:

Then, it sounds like dating via any agency is just as rough, if not rougher than dating here at home. Because its much more expensive and timely.  What is the advantage? Is the overall quality better? If so, then is it that much better? Enough to justify all this? If they need convincing to leave the country, what is the purpose in putting yourselves through that?

Masochism.  

My point re convincing to leave her country is this, the woman you want is not rushing at the first passport that shows up.  Do you want a pushover?  I think not. Is the quality better?  That depends entirely I what you define as quality.  For me the answer is yes, however, I have a fairly demanding taste regarding education, character, morals, ethics and a host of other things.  Physical appearance, although of course important was NOT the greater criteria for me.  I was previously married for 10 years to a part time model so all that becomes a bit whatever after a while.

BTW if you listen to Kvinna for too long that will be enough to put you off forever.   She runs a website called Antidate, AKA I-Wish-I-Could-Get-A-Date.  Go figure.

I/O

[Bruno]

I am 37 and I make around $200,000 a year. Is this enough to satisfy someone from Russia that has advertised on the agencies....

I am 39 and i make around 25000 euro year ( after tax )... when i have marry my first RW, i was making around 20000 euro year... enough for a wife and a child... i think that with your $200000, i will be able to have 5 wife and 15 kids 

How much you make is not really important... your disposal is important....if after having pay all the monthly bill's, you have only $100 remaining, you are low in money... all this is relatif to your place of living or/and country, your style of life, etc...

And seriously, if you find a good RW, she don't care too about how much you earn... usualy, they ask a "secure" man... who mean a man with a stable job  who earn enough for take care of a family....

Now about the cost of the process, you can reduce it a lot... you can use site like freepersonals.ru ... no agency fee... of course, you need to be carefull about scammer... and agencies... several agency post profile on freepersonals.ru ... allow a few e-mail exchange with the lady and when the guy is ready, they ask fee for continue the communication...

Since you like break big problem in little one... why buy tour at agency... seek yourself the better price for airplane fare, seek the cheaper appartment, if needed use a independant translator that you hire only when you need it, etc ... usually, my last 3 week trip was around 1500 euro... around 400 euro for the airfare ( Malev [hungary airline] was at 400, my national compagny was over 1000 )... around 200 euro for the appartment ( hiring one full month was cheaper that hiring 3 week !!! )... and the rest for the stay ( food, cafe, cinema, restaurant, museum, etc )...

Agency are only needed if you are not able to make all yourself or if you have not the courage and/or time for organize all by yourself...

[ronthebikeguy]

Thank you DKMM for the replies.

After reading the FAQs I think I understand a bit more. From what i have read.. its a bit easier to find someone of great quality and they are a bit more accepting than their American counterparts. They are willing to make a few sacrifices because the winning situation for them is a better life, something that they would not have had before hand.

[Rvrwind]

Then, it sounds like dating via any agency is just as rough, if not rougher than dating here at home.

That would depend on the agency you choose & how you choose to use it.

Because its much more expensive and timely.

Again see above.

What is the advantage?

Convenience for the most part & ease of stress for a trip to a foreign country where you don't speak the language.

Is the overall quality better?

Dbatable but with the right agency you can be assured of three things. You are not being scammed, the women are real & the women are sincerely looking for love.

If so, then is it that much better?

I guss that would depend on your expectations & what you are loking for & what you consider good value for your $.

Enough to justify all this?

Was for me & I've been married to a lovely & talented RW for almost 5 years. Plus I live in Russia.
 

If they need convincing to leave the country, what is the purpose in putting yourselves through that?

Not all of them but many. Your not one of those that has fallen for the big agency hype that you can come over here & "Pick a Puppy off the Shelf" are you? These are women, with careers & families & lives. Put yourself in thier shoes, would you be willing to give up all you have to move to Russia? Same applies. I know I did & so did a few others but not many of us had the gonads to do so.
Women are women & things arn't near as bad here as they were 5 years ago. The big agencies like to sell you a fantasy & using them will buy you exactly that, a fantasy!
I'll give you the straight of it - if you ain't got the time the money or the wherewithall to carry this through to completion, probably best you stay home because this is not for the feint of heart.

[ronthebikeguy]

Bruno, thank you for the reply!

That explains a lot. I am just curious how it is from the Russian woman perspective. What do they hope to achieve by posting their ads, you know? From the replies, I see that they are just geniune women that are looking for a nice relationship.


That leads to the next point. Whats up with the Russian men?  Why aren't these women getting scooped up?

[DKMM]

Well Ron, if its a better life you seek to provide them, you better be ready to break some green.  I doubt you would have much trouble keeping it reasonable though.

This is certainly worth a look for any single man with the means to try it.  You will never regret giving it a shot at least.

Yup, the problem is not economic its the men there really don't get it.  Not our problem though...

[ronthebikeguy]

Riverwind, I guess this is really pointed to you because you own an agency and live in Russia.


When you talk to the girls that are putting profiles up on your site, what are their expectations? Why do they do it? I would think they would have the same reservations that I have, which are why put yourself into this if its such a long and costly event?

[Kvinna]

BTW if you listen to Kvinna for too long that will be enough to put you off forever.   She runs a website called Antidate, AKA I-Wish-I-Could-Get-A-Date.  Go figure.
I/O

Oh-oh, I see you start driving your fecal masses along the tubes  
should I mention the third part of our members are happily married and the part of antidate's girl are engaged
even some of RWD members are engaged with our girls
So, from our female experience all those agencies small and big are unuseful thing, if you of course not interested to waste your time and money for doubtful fun

[Rvrwind]

Rvrwind, what way, in your opinion, could those 8 emails come to him? Sort of automatic spam? I really dont think that women could really react to an uninteresting profile.

Lily you misundertook me! I did not say they were honest, of course it is spam. Elena's & many others are famous for spam.
All I said was all agencies are not dishonest. I have been in business for 2 years now, fighting bad agencies & doing my best to give the best! I have never had one complaint against my business, not one in two years of operating! Others were getting bad reports within the first 6 months!!!
When I hear or read crap that lumps me in with the bad agencies, I'm sorry, I get a little testy. Its not easy to be honest & make a little money when you are overshadowed by the con artists & filth & people accept them as the norm. So if I get a little testy when I read this crap...

there isn't any honest agency,

it should be obvious.
KVINNA, are you suggesting I should pay for my translators out of my own pocket & my secretary & bookeeper etc? Somebody has to pay to translate the letters back & forth. I am far from a millionaire but if you want to put your money where your mouth is, I'll tell you what. You pay for all the translations & then I can let the correspondence go by for free. If you are not willing to do that I suggest you wake up & smell the coffee!!