High End Match Making

[catzenmouse]

Kuna,

 Dude, in quite a few posts lately you've brought up the guide issue. We've already been through that way too much. Your posts would be just as meaningful without that continued reference.

Just a thought.

Ken

[TigerPaws]

HEY HEY HEY...  I don't want this to turn into another flame-fest...

A few things...

Simoni... I don't know what sort of travel you enjoy but a few things in your post suggest you enjoy a different experience to me.  That's fine with me dude.  In my mind it's not so much about the type of restaurants you go to or (within reason) the type of apartment you stay in...  travel for me is about the "local experience". Kuna, not everyone likes the "local experience" different people have different wants, needs, desires and budgets.

I have the impression these "luxury tours" that have been described take the local experience away... maybe I'm wrong?

I personally HATE staying in Marriott Hotels when I travel even though they are usually beautiful properties.  I don't like them because they have a single character where ever they're located... There's rarely anything LOCAL about them. Kuna if I have the chance to stay at a 4 or 5 star hotel then that is where I will stay, with the higher end properties I do not have to be concerned about the knock on the door or telephone call asking if I would like some company. Additionally the rooms are clean, the towels are fresh, if I want something to eat in the middle of the night it is only takes a call to the desk clerk and it is delivered quickly and safely. I have stayed in my fair share of $hit holes and I do not need the local color any longer and there are many who feel the same.

I don't eat in McDonalds or TGI Fridays either...No Big Mac's either but TGI Fridays is a fair bet anywhere you go so why not.

I LOVE struggling with language...  eating local food.. making "friends" with the phone card seller and the old babushka selling cherries... Ok. But just because you enjoy that dose not mean everyone has to like it, there is NO right or wrong with this only what someone wants and can afford to do.

I used a guide on my first trip and didn't enjoy the experience.  Maybe I had a bad guide and others would have suited me better?

As for your comment about my experience with my girl not wanted to take a taxi and carrying the shopping bags etc... Well you can blow that out of your a$$.      It's irrelevant to this topic.



Richard...  nothing I've said in these posts is any reflection on your plans to establish a "specialised service".

I've seen your site few times in the past and think the added services (fishing etc) you already offer are tremendous.

I just go back to the "vision building stage" of this thread and can see some people have got great ideas for fleecing some customers of unneeded money but I STILL wonder what the real benefits are.  I don't see "comfort, speed and efficiency as particularly important benefits when undertaking this journey.



Oh, Simoni... By the way I don't know how long it's been there but while you're in Dnepr you should try "Pastoral" (If you haven't been there before)... It was sensational! I don't have the address but if you go to the trolleycar stop at the end of European Square and walk in the opposite direction to Central Station you'll see it across the road at the T intersection. The food was excellent... they had an excellent cocktail list and the service was first class.

Kuna

Again there is no right or wrong way only what works for you and what works for others to berate someone else because they are different is simply wrong.

TigerPaws

[Kuna]

Kuna,

 Dude, in quite a few posts lately you've brought up the guide issue. We've already been through that way too much. Your posts would be just as meaningful without that continued reference.

Just a thought.

Ken

I her ya Ken...  but Simoni mentioned his use of a guide (and satisfaction with it).  I mentioned I used one and that maybe the one I used wasn't the best choice.

My point in this thread (contrary to Simoni's assertion) is that I PERSONALLY wouldn't like a "luxury tour" if my understanding of the concept being painted is correct.  Others will prefer it BUT WHAT ARE THE REAL BENEFITS OF SUCH A TOUR???  By the way... what Simoni says in his post isn't what I would consider a luxury tour...  maybe I should desribe what I think others are talking about because my confusion might be better understood...?

(The caps stuff is the bit I don't get...  and I'm really only making the point so those dreaming up the concepts may consider real and measurable benefits they can give to the clients).

I think I said it earlier but if the goal is meeting somone and marrying ,I just think there's greater value applied in addressing those goals rather than improving "comfort, speed and efficiency".

It all comes down to personal choice... and this thread is going from the sublime to the absurd in some of the examples given... I just think the formula for success hasn't been addressed here.

[TigerPaws]

Rvrwnd,

Maybe it's "fleecing" not scamming...  I'm not saying it's wrong but I'm debating in my own mind what value a guy would get in terms of finding a relationship (rather than the holiday aspect) and the things he would miss out on that are more valuable than the handholding. Kuna I think you are missing the point, if a man of some reasonable means prefers to have assistance then what is the problem, if he wants to stay at a nice apartment or a 5 star hotel so what? Maybe he will feel more comfortable being driven around in a C-300 Mercedes with a combination bodyguard and translator, so what it is not your or anyone else's place to say that he is right or wrong. 

I think DEFINITELY an information service on restaurants and activities (like you site provides on activities) is an EXCELLENT idea.  I just know that the handholding by a guide when I was in Kiev was incredibly frusting because I wanted to "get amngst it" rather than being shuffled from point A to Point B.

Maybe it just comes down to personal preferences...  Some men DO like the handholding and can't travel without...

Yes it is all about personal preferences so what is the problem?

TigerPaws

[TigerPaws]

I her ya Ken...  but Simoni mentioned his use of a guide (and satisfaction with it).  I mentioned I used one and that maybe the one I used wasn't the best choice.

My point in this thread (contrary to Simoni's assertion) is that I PERSONALLY wouldn't like a "luxury tour" if my understanding of the concept being painted is correct.  Others will prefer it BUT WHAT ARE THE REAL BENEFITS OF SUCH A TOUR???  By the way... what Simoni says in his post isn't what I would consider a luxury tour...  maybe I should desribe what I think others are talking about because my confusion might be better understood...? Ok. So what if someone like Simoni wants to do things his way what is the problem if you agree or disagree if that is what he wants?

(The caps stuff is the bit I don't get...  and I'm really only making the point so those dreaming up the concepts may consider real and measurable benefits they can give to the clients).

I think I said it earlier but if the goal is meeting somone and marrying ,I just think there's greater value applied in addressing those goals rather than improving "comfort, speed and efficiency". Maybe speed and efficiency are not what is of interest so what is the problem?

It all comes down to personal choice... and this thread is going from the sublime to the absurd in some of the examples given... I just think the formula for success hasn't been addressed here.

There IS NOT a formula for success only what works for each man.

TigerPaws

[catzenmouse]

I her ya Ken...  but Simoni mentioned his use of a guide (and satisfaction with it).  I mentioned I used one and that maybe the one I used wasn't the best choice.

That is one point. I've seen other references (and no, I am not going to go searching for them) that in my opinion did not relate to the thread or post and were, again in my opinion, a way to get another "shot" in at the guide or use of guides. To each their own and if some have had successes with using that method then good for them. Just saying that continued references like that are what can lead up to another long drawn out thread or threads that we have already seen.

My point in this thread (contrary to Simoni's assertion) is that I PERSONALLY wouldn't like a "luxury tour" if my understanding of the concept being painted is correct.  Others will prefer it BUT WHAT ARE THE REAL BENEFITS OF SUCH A TOUR???  By the way... what Simoni says in his post isn't what I would consider a luxury tour...  maybe I should desribe what I think others are talking about because my confusion might be better understood...?

(The caps stuff is the bit I don't get...  and I'm really only making the point so those dreaming up the concepts may consider real and measurable benefits they can give to the clients).

Simoni has been to the FSU many, many times. I'm sure he's had plenty of "local" flavor and experiences. If he would prefer now to have comfort over "local" flavor then what is wrong with that? I've stayed in dives and I've stayed in 5 star hotels and flats. Now that I have established my relationship with my wife and her family I would probably not want to sleep on the pull out couch in a 3 room flat with 3 other people anymore. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the comfort that you like when you want to do it.

I think I said it earlier but if the goal is meeting somone and marrying ,I just think there's greater value applied in addressing those goals rather than improving "comfort, speed and efficiency".

In thinking of Daddy Warbucks going to the FSU and picking out his puppy while someone holds his hand I agree with you. He would be much better suited if he hid his money and went "native" for a month or two. Get to know the people, the country, and especially the girl(s) in a way that will not bring the gold diggers to him like a nail to a magnet. BUT, if someone wants to have their hand held, their shoes shined, and basically their butt kissed in this, AND they want to pay for it, then that is also their choice. Personally, I would rather see someone like Richard have this service available because he will tell them the truth regardless of their wallet size than an outfit like A-Web who would take him for every cent while fixing him up with less than genuine women.

It all comes down to personal choice... and this thread is going from the sublime to the absurd in some of the examples given... I just think the formula for success hasn't been addressed here.

YES! It does come down to personal choice. The formula for success is VERY different for each one of us. That is one of the things that is so challenging about this. Finding the proper formula for success for you as an individual. There is no right or wrong way to do this. Some are easier, some are cheaper, some will take you years to do, and some will happen without us even realizing it just like you have found and just like I have found. It isn't a "one size fits all" kind of adventure nor should it be.

Ken

[Kuna]

OK... let me try this again...  I am not looking for a *snip* fight here but maybe my concept of what is being discussed is "misaligned".

Let me explain:

If the concept is one where a man is picked up from the airport... taken to a hotel... picked up in the morning and ferried to a meeting with x number of girls... taken to a restaurant for dinner... taken back to his hotel etc then I could think of nothing more frustrating.

I also don't think a man would experience many of the things that are enlightening when in a foreign country.

MANY people take Contiki Tours of Europe and many complain at the regimental programs that re designed.  Others love it because they can squeeze as many sights as possible into a 14 day period.  I just prefer an experience that is more about EXPLORING than WITNESSING.

I've read some of the replies in this thread and agree with EVERYTHING said in terms of nice restaurants, clean rooms, safe transport. etc... What I'm questioning is the type of tour described above IF that is the concept.

I'm not opposed to guides...  I get frustrated with Thor's promotion of his guide-friend as "the only way to find a wife" because I think there's many ways to find a wife... I actually think Slava's process is a good one and one that would work for some men...  It doesn't mean there are no good agencies or sites where you can find genuine girls to write to... it just means there is another option. Furthermore, I ACCEPT there are many different styles of travel that will suit all different types of people and everyone should choose something that suits them... BUT...

I'm playing devils advocate when asking "On a luxury tour - what extra value in a potential relationship (or finding one) is being derived rather than just giving more efficient or comfortable travel"?

Again.. and again... and again... I'm not looking for a flame-fest or a fight... I'm just suggesting other things that might be considered....



I've just seen your last two posts Tierpaws...  I'm NOT DISAGREEING WITH SIMONI'S POSTS... I ACTAULLY DON'T SEE HIS STYLE OF TRAVEL AS "LUXURY"...  I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT ACHIEVING GOALS (relationsip, marriage, family and happiness) RATHER THAN FOCUSING ON PROVIDING SOMETHING MORE SUPERFICIAL.

Crikey...  I'll say it AGAIN... Anyone can travel however they choosebut:

1. What is the goal of the trip (One assumes it's to meet a woman you can grow to understand, appreciate, love, respect, etc and then progress to marriage).  I'm wondering if anyone bothers to consider what services can be provided to a man "with cash to burn" to improve his chances of success.

Ideas:  

- Personality profiling...  looking for synergistic personalities - not just hot bodies;
- Counselling and professional advice (on relationships and by professionals... not from someone telling you his opinion on a girl after a casual conversation... I see little value in those opinions)
- Arranging a NICE long term apartment for a man wanting to stay 3 months or more;
- Investment advice - A property agent that can be trusted;
- Intensive language courses while in FSU (I believe that's the best place to learn Russian);
- Tutoring on Russian history and culture (something My Girl appreciated was the fact that I sought out information about her city, country, it's history and cultural highlights)... I believe many men going to FSU on this journey don't even consider it...  

[DKMM]

Yes Rvrwind, that is correct.  I remember you tried to get me a nice pad in the city center but I wanted to live out in the desolate slums far from anything.  I rented my dump on my own and I loved it mostly except when it was a bit scary at night in the stairwell and outside.  And it was annoying when it took the driver two minutes to navigate the potholes in the driveway each time I went somewhere...  My reason was that if I did bring anybody home with me, I didn't want her to think I was a high roller.  It worked marvelously! 

The girl that spent most of my time with made sure we would spend rubles minimally after she saw my place.  She even took me to the store so we could load up on groceries rather than me having to buy food in restaurants.  We also drank the vino from Moldova so we wouldn't get gouged on drinks at Zerkolo.

That's pure Russian adventure, living with a girl that barely speaks English in a crumbling flat in the outskirts of Tver.  Not that it lead to me finding my fiance but it was more insightful than anything else I've done in Russia.

[IAmZon]

I feel responsible ... so let me say this. 

The subject at hand is DIFFERENT than is being discussed.

There is a DIFFERENT business model surfacing (internet empowered) that creates a membership funnel.  Then product / services are sold into that funnel ... and the very active members of the funnel start to do (buy) more and more.  I don't think this consumer behavior is explained by "supply / demand" or "value".  It is different. It is identity marketing.

I had a meeting last week with a perspective client (self made millionaire kinda guy).  One of the first things he told me was that he was in Dan Kennedy's Platinum Club - that costs $ 30,000 a year just to get his super duper marketing newsletter.

(PSSST -  RIGHT THEN ... I saw the clouds part and angels sing ... I realized that I was destined to be THE NEXT DAN KENNEDY)  Anyway ...

Of course this self made millionaire would bust balls to save nickels and dimes in business, but in other cases, he is spending money on a completely different level.  I think you will see more and more of this...

[catzenmouse]

Kuna,

I don't mean to suggest that you are trying to pick a fight. All I said is that the references "could" be seen that way.

I'm not opposed to guides...  I get frustrated with Thor's promotion of his guide-friend as "the only way to find a wife" because I think there's many ways to find a wife... I actually think Slava's process is a good one and one that would work for some men...  It doesn't mean there are no good agencies or sites where you can find genuine girls to write to... it just means there is another option.

I've had plenty of disagreements with Thor about that exact same thing. I appreciate his enthusiasm and also believe that it would be a great way to go for many men. (Sidenote: Thor, if you end up reading this after you get back from Turkey please know that I really do like you and would love to have a sit down with you. I just disagree on some of how your present your options.)

1. What is the goal of the trip (One assumes it's to meet a woman you can grow to understand, appreciate, love, respect, etc and then progress to marriage).  I'm wondering if anyone bothers to consider what services can be provided to a man "with cash to burn" to improve his chances of success.

Ideas: 

- Personality profiling...  looking for synergistic personalities - not just hot bodies;
- Counselling and professional advice (on relationships and by professionals... not from someone telling you his opinion on a girl after a casual conversation... I see little value in those opinions)
- Arranging a NICE long term apartment for a man wanting to stay 3 months or more;
- Investment advice - A property agent that can be trusted;
- Intensive language courses while in FSU (I believe that's the best place to learn Russian);
- Tutoring on Russian history and culture (something My Girl appreciated was the fact that I sought out information about her city, country, it's history and cultural highlights)... I believe many men going to FSU on this journey don't even consider it...

Those are great ideas! I could not agree more if it was me doing it. I would have loved to be able to plop myself down and stay for a long period and learn all that I could firsthand. If a man, any man rich or poor, wants to REALLY know what he is getting into then being there for an extended period would tell him way more about the woman and who she is than anything else EVER could.

Bottom Line: If a man wants to go the "do everything for me route" then at least have him use someone who is honest about it.

Ken

EDIT: Riv,

 It's all your fault! You Jerk! 

[TigerPaws]

Ok how about this;

 A gentleman of some reasonable means contacts Richard at Tver Angles, speaks to him on the telephone and writes in detail about himself, let us say he is 50 years old divorced with 2 adult children not living with him. He is fit, intelligent a sucessful businessman and would be considered hansom or at least not difficult to look at by women.

This same man expresses a desire to learn more about Russian ladies and is very interested in learning more about the process of finding, courting and bringing a lady to the U.S. as a wife or fiancee. Now this gentleman understands that Richards time is valuable and asks for a schedule of fees for such expert advise.  What would be wrong with Richard charging whatever he felt was appropriate?

 Lets say the gentleman decided that he would like to continue with Richard's services and further indicated that he would like to find a lady between 29 and 34 without children who has been married and divorced. Someone who is trim, somewhat athletic, a little adventitious, intelligent, possibly interested in having a child in the future and attractive. The gentleman sends some photo's and a letter of introduction to Richard and asks him to pre-screen several ladies who would be interested in meeting with our gentleman. What would be wrong with Richard charging the gentleman whatever he felt was appropriate?

Several months pass and our gentleman has decided that it is time to meet one or more of the ladies Richard has been assisting the gentleman communicate with. Our gentleman asks Richard to provide a C-300, driver and interpreter, to have someone meet him at the airport in Moscow, to arrange for a week or more at the Marriott Grand. What would be wrong with Richard charging whatever he felt was appropriate?

Let us go a step further the gentleman dose not want to stay in Tver so he asks Richard to chauffeur and escort the ladies to Moscow and make whatever arrangements may be necessary including a hotel for Richard and the lady(s) if he (Richard) felt it was necessary. The gentleman asks Richard to make the various lunch and or dinner arrangements for the initial meeting and should the gentleman and lady(s) decide to meet later make theater or other arrangements as the need arises.

So far Richard has done nothing but facilitate the introductions, meeting, hotel and entertainment, possibly a translator, car and driver, for which he has charged what he feels is appropriate.

Let us take this a little further, the first trip is a bust for our gentleman but he sees great promise and asks Richard to try again with some different ladies. What is wrong with anything so far, our gentleman is happy, Richard has done nothing inappropriate and Richard has made some money.

The above happens twice more until our gentleman finds exactly the right lady for himself, wherein he once again asks Richard for assistance in further getting to now the lady.

What is wrong here? Nothing that is what except Richard has made some money, so what is the harm?

TigerPaws
 
   

[TigerPaws]

OK... let me try this again...  I am not looking for a *snip* fight here but maybe my concept of what is being discussed is "misaligned".

Let me explain:

If the concept is one where a man is picked up from the airport... taken to a hotel... picked up in the morning and ferried to a meeting with x number of girls... taken to a restaurant for dinner... taken back to his hotel etc then I could think of nothing more frustrating. Maybe for you Kuna but not for everyone so what is the harm if others want this?

I also don't think a man would experience many of the things that are enlightening when in a foreign country. Not everyone gives a rats a$$ about "the experience" some of us have been there and done that and are tired of it, Again so what is the harm?

MANY people take Contiki Tours of Europe and many complain at the regimental programs that re designed.  Others love it because they can squeeze as many sights as possible into a 14 day period.  I just prefer an experience that is more about EXPLORING than WITNESSING. Ok that is YOU not someone else, everyone is DIFFERENT, so what?

I've read some of the replies in this thread and agree with EVERYTHING said in terms of nice restaurants, clean rooms, safe transport. etc... What I'm questioning is the type of tour described above IF that is the concept.

I'm not opposed to guides...  I get frustrated with Thor's promotion of his guide-friend as "the only way to find a wife" because I think there's many ways to find a wife... I actually think Slava's process is a good one and one that would work for some men...  It doesn't mean there are no good agencies or sites where you can find genuine girls to write to... it just means there is another option. Furthermore, I ACCEPT there are many different styles of travel that will suit all different types of people and everyone should choose something that suits them... BUT...

I'm playing devils advocate when asking "On a luxury tour - what extra value in a potential relationship (or finding one) is being derived rather than just giving more efficient or comfortable travel"? If someone wants comfort and convenience so what, that is their choice, what is the big deal just because you disagree dose not make it wrong. 

Again.. and again... and again... I'm not looking for a flame-fest or a fight... I'm just suggesting other things that might be considered....



I've just seen your last two posts Tierpaws...  I'm NOT DISAGREEING WITH SIMONI'S POSTS... I ACTAULLY DON'T SEE HIS STYLE OF TRAVEL AS "LUXURY"...  I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT ACHIEVING GOALS (relationsip, marriage, family and happiness) RATHER THAN FOCUSING ON PROVIDING SOMETHING MORE SUPERFICIAL.

Crikey...  I'll say it AGAIN... Anyone can travel however they choosebut:

1. What is the goal of the trip (One assumes it's to meet a woman you can grow to understand, appreciate, love, respect, etc and then progress to marriage).  I'm wondering if anyone bothers to consider what services can be provided to a man "with cash to burn" to improve his chances of success. Nothing will improve his chances but such services can make his trip easier and more comfortable, AGAIN so what is the problem?

Ideas: 

- Personality profiling...  looking for synergistic personalities - not just hot bodies; What is wrong with ladies with hot bodies?
- Counselling and professional advice (on relationships and by professionals... not from someone telling you his opinion on a girl after a casual conversation... I see little value in those opinions) Ok so that is YOUR opinion that and several dollars will buy you a cup of coffee, so what?
- Arranging a NICE long term apartment for a man wanting to stay 3 months or more; That depends on what the gentleman wants if it is only for a few days, weeks or a 5 star hotel so what? It is his money and decision.
- Investment advice - A property agent that can be trusted;
- Intensive language courses while in FSU (I believe that's the best place to learn Russian); Ya! Right so what if he has little or no interest in learning Russian should that disqulaify him from seeking a Russian lady?
- Tutoring on Russian history and culture (something My Girl appreciated was the fact that I sought out information about her city, country, it's history and cultural highlights)... Ya! Right so what if he has little or no interest in learning Russian should that disqulaify him from seeking a Russian lady?

I believe many men going to FSU on this journey don't even consider it...Ok. That is YOUR BELIEF not necessarily EVERYONES.   

TigerPaws

[Ste]

Bozhe moi.....

[KenC]

I am all for anyone spending as much money as necessary to find the right woman, but they have to be smart with it too.  Leading with your wallet is just not too smart IMO.  If a rich Dude wanted to pay someone to do some of his leg work prior to going over, it might not be too bad, but to allow any hint of the magnitude of wealth we are addressing here to leak out is nuts.  The truth about extreme wealth will come out, but it would be better much later in the process after a relationship has developed.  There are a lot of things that one can buy, but I could never trust someone to pick my wife.  That has to be done one on one and face to face.  I know you didn't suggest that either, Tigerpaws, but the leading with your wallet idea is not too bright IMO.  They have the rest of their lives to live the high life!
KenC

[Kuna]

Tigerpaws...

If you're trying to bait me into an argument you're going about it the wrong way...

Your first post sounds very reasonable... but life isn't a series of sequential and predetermined events like you would like to assert.

How about we accept your fantasy trip as one possibility and also consider an alternative.

An operator without the PROVEN ethical standards of Richard uses some clever audience development techniques to build a web community.  He then identifies the "Gold list"...  men who are high-wealth individuals, lonely, scorched after divorce, etc...  He's seen photos of average men with beautiful RW and KNOWS he can do better.

The Operator tells them age isn't a factor and with the right planning he can find them the perfect wife while they are afforded the luxury they "deserve"! 

"It's dangerous in FSU... you should be careful.  there are scammers and kidnappings everyday but a good Operator can remove the risks AND help him find a perfect wife!

There are no good Russian men because they are all alcoholics and wife bashers.  Russian women just can't find happiness at home.  It's easy for an American man of 50 yrs of age to marry a model-like 25 year old girl who will respect him and honour him.  All of the women have a great education and strong family values... they're much more mature than American girls! Most are religious and have the highest moral standards...

The operator lines up a dozen women he finds in River Palace and offers them $1000 per night to entertain the man BUT they can't ask the man for money in any way...  The operator will procure the gifts and other benefits for them and get them a minimum of 4 dates a month like this... a nice little stocking filler for a working girl!

So...  the "Luxury trip" is offered and the man (with no financial limitations) accepts because the offer is too good to be true... AND worthy of a man of his standing. He's read so much online about scammers and suspect agencies... Why risk it?

So off he goes First Class to Kiev...  He takes the VIP channel at Borispol, is met by his driver and immediately taken by C300 to the best hotel available.... "The Operator" arrives to take the customer to dinner.

Over dinner the operator gives the customer all the confidence he needs to set up the next week... and set up the customer.  He hands over a slick information pack that tells the customer everything he needs to know about Russian Women, culture and customs.

The man is excited because he can see many beautiful girls around him and he knows his dreams will come true.

The dates start...  the Operator gives the man feedback after every date because he is managing all of the interactions with women to make sure the man gets the best advice and guidance.  This is about finding him the perfect wife afterall.

He chooses to meet 8 out of the 12 girls because he doesn't like brunettes and there are 3 that he has strong feelings for... The C300 and driver arrives everyday and the dating continues.  The girls don't HAVE to put out but they know if they do they will get to the "bonus round".

As the dates continue the operator advises the man he should buy the girls some gifts so he takes him out to buy some jewelery... just a simple set of solitaire diamond earrings and matching pendant FOR EACH GIRL.  $10,000 is cheap to find the perfect wife... if the man isn't one of the super rich maybe he just goes for the $5,000 option.

The man gives the gifts to the girls and finally he is ready to make a decision....  Svetlana Humpalot gave him the night of his life last night... those diamonds really did the trick... more good advice from the Operator.  She's so subservient and loving that he knows she is the one for him.

He tells the operator of his decision and the operator smiles broadly as he hugs him and tells him he's made the right decision.  He tells the man he would have made the exact same decision himself but as a matter of ethics he never influences his customers decisions because a marriage must be of the heart... not the head! He just facilitates to make sure his friends find the perfect girl.

The next day the Operator takes the man to buy the engagement ring and finds the perfect lump of rock for such a perfect union. $50,000 for the ring...  his friends should see the strength of his love for Ms Humpalot AND flaunting his wealth is "just the way he is".

The big moment arrives...  beautiful restaurant...  private room...  string quartet... personalised fireworks outside...  The man drops to his knees and proposed and Ms Humpalot gushes with excitement as she accepts. It's a fairytail...

As he returns first class to his Manhattan apartment to make all of the necessary arrangements at home he reflects on his wonderful journey.  The Operators advice about the living allowance for Ms Humpalot is good advice... it makes sense.  $10,000 per month will ensure their relationship stays strong AND Kiev is an expensive city to live in... he has seen it first hand!

She can also brush up on her English skills and know that her fiance really loves her.

Ahhhh.. it's wonderful...  The engagement continues for 3 months or so...  The Customer was never aware that the girls turned over all of the Jewelery to the Operator in exchange for cash and a continued income from The Operator.  The girl that got through to the Bonus Round gets to keep $2,000 out of the $10,000 per month allowance and she's already got 2 other fiances so she's is promoted to "expert status" within the Operation.

Finally the man gets worried when the the phone isn't answered one day... After a few days he contacts the Operator and the operator offers to get check it out. He didn't find Svetlana so he offers to get a private investigator involved... he happens to know one who is ex-police and still has the best contacts in government... but he isn't cheap.

Insert the ending you want here:

She has been in an accident and is in hospital;
She needs money for an operation;
Her mother is sick and needs money for medication;
She died in a shopping accident;
She has been kidnapped and The Operator can only negotiate with the kidnappers if the Man pays the ransome.



I know my scenario is ridiculous and unlikely but it is just an alternative for those to consider if they want to target the "Rich List"...  Hell... maybe an existing agency without Richards ethical standards can pick up the plot and turn it into a business plan.

Whatever happens... it's all fanciful. I honestly believe there is no better way to undertake this journey than to get to know the girl in her natural environment...  Some may want comfort but I'd rather spend my time with a girl n her natural environment so I can develop a deeper understanding of her through her life, family and friends...

Let me comment briefly on your second post.

ANY MAN THAT HAS NO INTEREST IN LEARNING SOME OF THE LANGUAGE, UNDERSTANDING THE CULTURE OR GETTING TO KNOW HIS WOMAN IN HER NATURAL ENVIRONMENT IS IN FOR A WORLD OF TROUBLE!   

[Turboguy]

Personally I don't understand what all the misunderstanding is about.   Yes, I think there is a limited market for a high end service.   I know a couple of people who have looked for something like that.   Perhaps not quite at the level that TigerPaws is talking about but guys who would be willing to pay $ 10,000 - $ 20,000 to have a lot of the ground work done for them and to only be meeting women that are cream of the crop lets say.   If that is what they want and that is what they think they deserve it would make more sense for them to pay that kind of money than to make four trips at $ 5,000 each and not meet anyone who fit their requirements. 

There are people who want what Tiger Paws is suggesting.  There are limited service available like that.   There is probably good opportunity for someone who wanted to capitalize on it.   

[catzenmouse]

TG,

 I am totally in agreement with you. It all boils down to "Give the customer what they want." If you can do this then the repeat business will take care of itself. If a company screws someone over then you can bet your @ss the word will get out to those in that sector.

Ken

[KenC]

Kuna,
Men of moderate level income get scammed every day and maybe more so than the men with some wealth.  It is the average Joe that gets it in his head that his income is going to turn some RW's head, the rich guy is used to it.  Unless the wealth is inherited, wealthy people are usually pretty sharp.  The additional wealth can be used in many beneficial ways too.  (For example background checks)  A wealthy man can also afford to spend more time with his future honey than a regular 9 to 5'er with 2 weeks vacation.

ANY MAN THAT HAS NO INTEREST IN LEARNING SOME OF THE LANGUAGE, UNDERSTANDING THE CULTURE OR GETTING TO KNOW HIS WOMAN IN HER NATURAL ENVIRONMENT IS IN FOR A WORLD OF TROUBLE!

I never learned Russian at Lena's suggestion.  She said, if we were to live in Russia, it would be important, but not as we live in America.

Lena and I got to know each other very well after she arrived here in my natural environment.  And an environment in which we were going to live.  Not sure if you are alluding to getting acquainted on vacations to exotic locations or not.  If so, I would agree that a vacation is not real life and almost anyone can project an image different from reality.

As for learning about the ladies culture, I don't really know how important that is either.  I knew a lot going in, being Russian myself.  But I think being kind, considerate of your woman's feeling and attentive to her needs is much more important than knowing Russian history.

It's been working for us for over 8 years now and no trouble in sight.
KenC

[Simoni]

Good post with many excellent points, KenC. 

[TigerPaws]

Let me comment briefly on your second post.

ANY MAN THAT HAS NO INTEREST IN LEARNING SOME OF THE LANGUAGE, UNDERSTANDING THE CULTURE OR GETTING TO KNOW HIS WOMAN IN HER NATURAL ENVIRONMENT IS IN FOR A WORLD OF TROUBLE!   

Kuna my lady and I have been together for 7 years now and we are both very happy and I NEVER learned very much Russian or a great deal about Russian culture before we were together. Like KenC I think you are way off base on this issue.

TigerPaws

[catzenmouse]

I've seen a pattern over the years in all the FSUW boards I've been involved with. If someone is successful in their search they have a natural tendency to believe that their way was the only right way to do it. I had that feeling myself for a bit and I do understand it also. The truth is that there is one right way to do it. Sure as hell is. Problem is that this one right way is different for each and every one of us!

Just because I did it this way does not mean that it will work for anyone else. If fact, IT WON'T work for anyone else. It was only me that it worked for. There may be plenty of similarities between some of us but they are not the same.

I'm damned happy that my method worked for me! I would not ever be the poster child for doing it the "Right Way" but it did work and I have no complaints about the results. In fact, I am overjoyed that despite all my stupidity I found exactly what I wanted and needed in my life.

The joy and the hardship of this will come out in the wash. Make a bad choice and you will come out just as dirty as when you went in. Make a good choice and you will come out smelling like roses. Even if you do not do all the right things and follow all the rules.

I won the lottery! No other way I can explain it. Bad thinking, bad actions, way over my head in way too many aspects of my search. So who's to say that someone else, using a different method cannot come out just as lucky as I did? It is not a "do it this way" game. It is a do it smart and you will have a much better chance game. Sometimes stupid people doing stupid things also win. That I am the poster child for.

Ken

[Kuna]

Kuna,
Men of moderate level income get scammed every day and maybe more so than the men with some wealth.  It is the average Joe that gets it in his head that his income is going to turn some RW's head, the rich guy is used to it.  Unless the wealth is inherited, wealthy people are usually pretty sharp.  The additional wealth can be used in many beneficial ways too.  (For example background checks)  A wealthy man can also afford to spend more time with his future honey than a regular 9 to 5'er with 2 weeks vacation.
I never learned Russian at Lena's suggestion.  She said, if we were to live in Russia, it would be important, but not as we live in America.

Lena and I got to know each other very well after she arrived here in my natural environment.  And an environment in which we were going to live.  Not sure if you are alluding to getting acquainted on vacations to exotic locations or not.  If so, I would agree that a vacation is not real life and almost anyone can project an image different from reality.

As for learning about the ladies culture, I don't really know how important that is either.  I knew a lot going in, being Russian myself.  But I think being kind, considerate of your woman's feeling and attentive to her needs is much more important than knowing Russian history.

It's been working for us for over 8 years now and no trouble in sight.
KenC

Ken... a good post with good points.

There probably is a danger for those on moderate incomes thinking more $'s = better success... at the end of the day any path any man takes comes with responsibities and conequences.

Gator made a point about "travellers verusus tourists"...  I guess I consider myself more of a traveller because I love the challenges that come with culture, language etc... To me it's a part of the experience...  Others don't and it's their right to take whatever path they choose.  I just don't think "smooth sailing" will solve all problems.

Language...
From what I understand your situation is different from mine.  We're planning a family and both want our children to speak Russian.  Language seems optional but in Tigerpaws example I think he mentioend a 24 yr old girl and a 50 yr old man.  MOST 24yr old girls will want children if they don't have them yet and I just see language and culture as a great gift for children.

Living in a girls environment
I wasn't referring to holidays in exotic locations in my post and I'll leave that alone.   

You had a wonderful opportunity when Lena was able to come and live in the States while studying.  Most men don't get that chance.  Living together is a great eye opener...  I can only reflect on the things I learned on my second trip.  Basic experiences like rude service and plain backward thinking showed me why My Girl has such strong opinions on some things... (You should hear her on topics like littering or drug abuse.. PHEW!)

Culture
I had a few beers with a mate on Friday night and we spoke about his "FSUW engagement experience" which ended 4 years ago.  He comes from a typically Anglo background and told me he couldn't tolderate his fiance's "argumentative nature."  He felt like she was constantly nagging over little things and after we spoke for a while he started saying things like, "Olga was like that" and "She used to do that too".  His fiance lived with him in Oz for 3 months before they decided to call it quits.

Anyway... he went missing for about a half an hour and came back to say "I just called Olga... I might go back over to visit her in September".

He didn't "get" some of the basic cultural differences because he'd never had anything to do with FSU other than his holidays there (He is pretty comfortable and from what I understand he didn't really "mix it with the locals" while there...).  Like you (but perhaps without as close a link) my family heritage is Ukrainian.  I see things My Girl does and plainly see behaviour I saw in my childhood.  Our "cultural connection" is exactly as I expected. Other may feel a cultural gap... others may not even recognise or care about it.

Some women will be different from My Girl but she has told me it was important to her that I took time to understand her and her culture... and it was equally important that I respected her heritage.

She can criticise things around her but I can't...  that's fair enough... but I'm at least glad I understand why she's so critical about some things...

At the end of the day there are probably people out there that would need or prefer such "luxury" services...  Some of that described above isn't what I would call luxury...  but still I guess that's all relative.

I personally don't get it but there are many things about "different approaches" that I don't get. 

Kuna my lady and I have been together for 7 years now and we are both very happy and I NEVER learned very much Russian or a great deal about Russian culture before we were together. Like KenC I think you are way off base on this issue.

TigerPaws

Dude... I really don't care what you think!   I too am allowed an opinion...  You seem to miss that part!

[Simoni]

Simoni... As for your comment about my experience with my girl not wanted to take a taxi and carrying the shopping bags etc... Well you can blow that out of your a$$.      It's irrelevant to this topic.

Kuna, your post is not only insulting, it’s inaccurate.

1)   I didn’t post anything about your gf.  I don’t know how in the world you construed that from my post, which I will repeat here:

I don't carry 2 heavy bags 1000 yards to save four dollars on cab fare.  And I do spend more for a safe, clean cab in the FSU.

If you posted something similar elsewhere that made you connect the dots, then you are no Sherlock.  I have never read anything like that from you.  Rather, my comments were about "bargain hunters" who choose to carry their bags 1000 yards away from the Marriott so they can get a cheaper cab on the street.  Or someone in Kiev who walks down the hill to get a cheaper cab, rather than calling one to their flat.  If that is your nature, and you want to save four bucks, fine.  Just don’t criticize others who want to use their money the way they see fit.

2)   I have an ever bigger problem with your profanity laden insult.  RWD is a discussion board, and posters should be civil.  Telling me to stick it up my ass is not only an insult to me, but to all posters who post their opinions.  Plus, not only were you less than civil in your comments, you were totally wrong because you were commenting on something you say I said but in fact I never said.

Your words will carry a lot more weight at RWD if you learn to control your urges and argue your positions with logic, leaving curse words and insults behind.

[Simoni]

Kuna,

I don't mean to suggest that you are trying to pick a fight. All I said is that the references "could" be seen that way.

Darn right he was picking fights; did you read what he said to me about my opinion about not walking 5 blocks to get a cheaper cab? Stick it up my ass, he told me?

Thanks for picking up on such "references."

You're the man....RWD blue helmet.

[Simoni]

I her ya Ken...  but Simoni mentioned his use of a guide (and satisfaction with it).  I mentioned I used one and that maybe the one I used wasn't the best choice.

Wrong again. I mentioned the guide in RESPONSE to your previous post in which you complained about your guide, for the 99th time.  Look back at the time order of the posts and you will see it for yourself. You injected the guide issue into this strand, and I responded to it....for balance.  Here is your quote on July 05, 2007, 06:06:33 PM

By the way... I know many people endorse the use of guides but based on my experience I reckon a man will be better prepared to find and maintain a relationship with a FSUW if he is able to learn to navigate the daily grind.  LEARNING to cope is probably just as important!

Kuna

And my response on July 7 02:22:51 PM

I did hire a guide on my first trip to Ukraine, and he was invaluable.

So, Kuna, drop the guide debate.  You've had your say and so have others, so there is no need to repeat it.  

Allow people to do what they wish to do without attacking what they do.