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Author Topic: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history  (Read 16542 times)

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Offline Lily

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Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« on: July 09, 2007, 11:20:47 PM »
Here is one real perl about Russian history and Russian nobility, plus a very good discussion board. Everything is in English. Terrific read!    8)

http://www.alexanderpalace.org/

There are discussions about the most of magnificent Russian palaces and historic places in Moscow, St Pete and Crimea, on Russian Imperial family and European royalty as well, on each Russian Majesty and Royal Highness in particular (!).

The site is populated with the English speaking fans of Russian history. I wonder where do they get all this great stuff from..  8)

In whole my life I've never seen that lot of rare photos of Youssoupovs, for instance!

Enjoy!  :) 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 11:41:18 PM by Lily »
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2007, 06:09:30 AM »
If members would only spare a few minutes to have a look at our Wiki (http://russianwomendiscussion.com/wiki/index.php?Russian%20History) :'( ;) 8).
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 06:31:47 AM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline Lily

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2007, 06:57:06 AM »
Thanks Sandro  :clapping:

just cannot help quoting the link http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/mainpage.html

Scrolling down a bit brings a reader, among the others things, to the most impressive English language online library of full text memoires  8)

just to mention a few:

At the Court of the Last Tsar by Mossolov

Last Days at Tsarskoe Selo by Beckendorff

Memories of Russia 1916-1919 by Princess Paley (Olga Paley, born Pistolkors, her photo!)

a film by Sergei Eisenstein for review! (from YouTube, shows the Palace interiors during October rebel)

Amazing resource  8)

« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 07:02:52 AM by Lily »
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Offline Mir

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2007, 07:09:40 AM »
 Eisenstein movie 'October: Ten Days That Shook the World ' showed storming of the Winter Palace. The scene was shot on site and there was a lot more violence and damage then the actual storming! A curator remarked to Eisenstein at the end of the shooting; ' Your men were a lot more careful last time'

Also the famous scene of massacre on the stairs in 'Battleship Potemkin' never took place in reality.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2007, 10:27:50 AM »
Thanks Sandro :clapping:
OK Lily, I shall forgive you if you can find traces of my great grand-uncle Aleksandr Dimitrievic Des Hayes (http://www.floriani.it/zioalex-eng.htm) through all that stuff ;).
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 10:59:59 AM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline Lily

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2007, 10:37:20 PM »
Sandro, I am not sure how was his last name written in Russian..do you know it?

Your great grand uncle was obviously a prominent Russian person so he must have been referred to in some historical sources.
 
Otherwise, here is the Russian family tree site. I guess all Russian nobles must be in there.

http://www.vgd.ru/index.php?t=15872
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 10:52:55 PM by Lily »
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2007, 05:45:26 AM »
Sandro, I am not sure how was his last name written in Russian..do you know it?
Lily, it was originally French and pronounced "De Guy" in Russian, so I assume it was written ДЕГАЙ or ДЭГАЙ. Incidentally, nobody has ever explained to me why foreign names starting with H have that converted to Г in Russian, e.g. ГИТЛЕР rather than ХИТЛЕР. 
Quote
Otherwise, here is the Russian family tree site. I guess all Russian nobles must be in there.http://www.vgd.ru/index.php?t=15872
Interesting site, I shall add it to the Wiki (pity it's in Russian only).

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Offline Lily

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2007, 07:03:32 AM »
. Incidentally, nobody has ever explained to me why foreign names starting with H have that converted to Г in Russian, e.g. ГИТЛЕР rather than ХИТЛЕР. 

These are the Russian rules on transliteration of foreign own names.

Sometimes they lead to funny cases. For instance, Helmut Kohl used to be called by first name everywhere in Russian sources as Гельмут. When my German colleagues know this, they laughed a lot: " A GELmut??"  :D

The spelling of Des Hayes name might have been spelled in Russian in many other variations. First I thought it should be really Дегай but there amay be lots of oprions given the Des, the initial H, the endings, .. did you ever find it in some Russian sources in Cyrillic? The man who lead the Pages Corps and who has escorted the future Russian Empress to the country should have been mentioned somewhere..
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2007, 06:03:37 PM »
The spelling of Des Hayes name might also have been spelled in Russian in many other variations. First I thought it should be really Дегай but there may be lots of options given the Des, the initial H, the endings, .. did you ever find it in some Russian sources in Cyrillic? The man who lead the Pages Corps and who has escorted the future Russian Empress to the country should have been mentioned somewhere..
Lily, the spelling is uncertain, the French name might have been Des Haes (ha means bush, row of trees in French), and moreover the initial H is mute, so God knows how it was initially transliterated into Cyrillic when his family got to Russia after 1685, the year of the edict of Fontainebleu, which forced some 300,000 Huguenots to leave France.

Your suggestion to search in Cyrillic brought no results, however Googling for Corps of Pages revealed an Imperial Corps of Pages Exhibition at Columbia University Libraries (http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/news/exhibitions/2002/2002-12-01.corps_rbml.html) held in 2002-2003, and guess who appears in the very first photo on that page ;D?

I shall try to get in touch with Tanya Chebotarev, Curator of the Bakhmeteff Archive, Rare Book and Manuscript Library, and see if she can give me further details on Uncle Aleksandr, my namesake.

Thanks anyway for volunteering your assistance, Lily, you are a helpful friend as ever :-*.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 09:22:46 PM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline catzenmouse

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2007, 06:06:54 PM »
So Sandro, which one is he?
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2007, 06:48:32 PM »
So Sandro, which one is he?
The older, bald fellow (sitting, 2nd from left, compare with the photo in my previous post). BTW, notice how only the shortest lad is wearing his dress helmet, one-upmanship before the term was even invented ;D

Good to have an external confirmation that his story was not some invented family lore, after about 100 years ;).
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 09:28:01 PM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline catzenmouse

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2007, 07:17:58 PM »
Very Cool! That might just make you as close as we get to the RWD version of Russian Royalty! Tsar Sandro. Kinda has a nice ring to it don't you think?

It is very cool and a very special link to something that we are all interested in.

Ken
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2007, 07:56:29 PM »
Tsar Sandro. Kinda has a nice ring to it don't you think?
Ken, Our friend, you may spare the formalities, just call me Your Imperial Highness, and We shall dispense you from the formal bow, considering your advanced age and the perilous condition of your vertebrae ;D.

OTOH, are you any good at genuflecting, grovelling in the dirt, etc. ;)? We may decide to alter court etiquette slightly, in the future.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 09:30:02 PM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline Lily

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2007, 10:28:33 PM »
Sandro, do you know what years he was among the Commandants of the Pages Corps? as far as I know, the PC used to have 4 Commandants at a time, so probably there is a chance to look at the PC's list in archives, if they are available.

Do you know any dates of Mr. Cl. Des Hayes? I mean date of birth, of death, etc dates? at least the years?

You know, your story made me very curious. It used to be my teenage hobby to dig into old times. Did you ever considered asking the question on the alexanderpalace forum? The people there seem to be very knowledgeable about Russian history. Did you also visit St Pete and the Page Corps, did you tried their archives?

If Tanya Chebotarev has some news for you, please keep informed  :) btw is she in the US?


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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2007, 06:16:22 AM »
Sandro, do you know what years he was among the Commandants of the Pages Corps? as far as I know, the PC used to have 4 Commandants at a time, so probably there is a chance to look at the PC's list in archives, if they are available.
Four ? I did not know that. From what Kropotkin wrote in his Memoirs of a Revolutionist (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/kropotkin/memoirs/memoirs2_1.html), it sounds as if it was just one in his times, and rather nasty at that :).
Quote
Do you know any dates of Mr. Cl. Des Hayes? I mean date of birth, of death, etc dates? at least the years?
Unfortunately not, but I assume he died around 1910.
Quote
You know, your story made me very curious. It used to be my teenage hobby to dig into old times.
Then you may find this interesting : http://www.floriani.it/leonida-eng.htm, a detailed account of my great grandfather's public career (it's in French, but you'll probably understand most of it anyway)
Quote
Did you ever considered asking the question on the alexanderpalace forum? The people there seem to be very knowledgeable about Russian history.
No, but you've given me another probably useful lead, thanks ;).
Quote
Did you also visit St Pete and the Page Corps, did you tried their archives?
No again.
Quote
If Tanya Chebotarev has some news for you, please keep informed  :) btw is she in the US?
My pleasure and yes, Tanya is listed as "Curator of the Bakhmeteff Archive
Rare Book and Manuscript Library" at the Columbia University Libraries, NY (Tel: (212) 854-3986, Fax: (212) 854-1365). 

Incidentally, the Corps had a very modest barracks ;).
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 06:29:27 AM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline Lily

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2007, 06:43:52 AM »
Sandro, I cannot find the quote but just by memory I guess the PC should have had one director and four commandants, the latters of a mininum colonel rank. My guess is that Mr. Des Hayes probably was among them.

Here are the photos of all directors of the PC and years of their duty:

http://www.ioso.ru/proj/kadet/dir_ra.htm

The photo of the last one, Count Yepanchin, is blank. Suppose Mr Des Hayes might been on his duty under Mr Dieteriks or Count Keller.
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2007, 07:05:50 AM »
Sandro, I cannot find the quote but just by memory I guess the PC should have had one director and four commandants, the latters of a mininum colonel rank.
You're right, Lily, Kropotkin does say:
Quote
The director of the corps was an excellent old man, General Zheltkhin. But he was the nominal head only. The real master of the school was "the Colonel," --- Colonel Girardot, a Frenchman in the Russian service.
and Zheltkhin appears in your list (1854-1861). You wouldn't have made a bad historian ;).
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 07:11:05 AM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline russiafan12

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2008, 07:04:58 AM »
Thanks for posting this Lily, an awsome site!

Offline Chicagoguy

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2008, 04:20:21 PM »
For some interesting pictures try this site.


http://rtemes.livejournal.com/10062.html


Offline Rubicon

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2011, 05:33:07 PM »
Thanks Sandro  :clapping:

just cannot help quoting the link http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/mainpage.html

Scrolling down a bit brings a reader, among the others things, to the most impressive English language online library of full text memoires  8)

just to mention a few:

At the Court of the Last Tsar by Mossolov

Last Days at Tsarskoe Selo by Beckendorff

Memories of Russia 1916-1919 by Princess Paley (Olga Paley, born Pistolkors, her photo!)

a film by Sergei Eisenstein for review! (from YouTube, shows the Palace interiors during October rebel)

Amazing resource  8)



btw, the children of the las Tsar were only allowed cold baths!! ;D

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Excellent English site and forum about Russian history
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2011, 06:41:09 PM »
btw, the children of the las Tsar were only allowed cold baths!! ;D
I assume your source is:
Quote
The Tsar's children were raised as simply as possible. They slept on hard camp cots without pillows, except when they were ill, took cold baths in the morning, and were expected to tidy their rooms and do needlework to be sold at various charity events when they were not otherwise occupied.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchess_Anastasia_Nikolaevna_of_Russia

Apropos of :-\? Abuse of Russian children is covered in another thread ;).
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 06:48:17 PM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline scafidi454

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