Experiences with American women -- a question from jen

[I/O]

The question is, how soon will AM start taking this selflesness for granted just as RM do. 

About 35 years ago when the Philipino wife thing first got going here. (AM=Australian men in my comment) Can't speak for USA men, but I doubt it would be much different.

There is large numbers of both men and women involved in the international relationship scene who, IMO have no right to be there.  Many of then should never have been "produced" much less be allowed to "reproduce". 

I/O

[TigerPaws]

The question is, how soon will AM start taking this selflesness for granted just as RM do. 

We all take advantage of each other in one form or another, so it all depends on what extent the "taking advantage" takes place.

My wife is very happy in the roll of being my friend, lover, wife and mother to our child, she enjoys the roll of housekeeper (boatkeeper?) cook, being a mother and teacher to our daughter. She also enjoys learning how to sail our boat, navigation, seamanship, oceanography, meteorology and a myriad of other things but mostly of she enjoys being a traditional woman. My wife will help me with the repairs, standing watch while we are at sea, deciding where we will go, what we will do but prefers to leave those decisions to me. So is that taking advantage of her or is that a roll she prefers? I guess that all depends on your personal point of view.

Blues Fairy, how long will it take before your gentleman starts taking this selflessness for granted, I guess that all depends on what roll you want and what you are looking for in a relationship. If ou are asking that question in a very general sense I would say never because it is a cultural issue and the numbers of RW in America is to tiny to make any difference in American culture.

TigerPaws

[SANDRO43]

I guess that all depends on what roll you want

Rock'n'Roll, Roll-In-The-Hay ?

[sensei]

I think the men here created these problems.

Do you have any example(s) of how the "men here created these problems"?

Feminism has some blame, but in general EVERY female I found "non desirable" due to selfishness, there was always a man behind this behavior that fueled it.

What was the motivating factor(s) for "this behavior that fueled it"? I asked because of the key word "always".

Men pay a premium here for easy sex

*huh?*

Trying to understand your answers to J's questions.

~ sensei

[CLB1973]

How old are you Sensei? Before I entertain breaking all of this down for you, give me a minimal 10,000 word profile on yourself, why you are here, your reason for looking abroad. Also define morality for me and your views on religion and God.

You suffer through all of this, and I will then entertain breaking down step-by-step the details to your questions.

[catzenmouse]

How old are you Sensei? Before I entertain breaking all of this down for you, give me a minimal 10,000 word profile on yourself, why you are here, your reason for looking abroad. Also define morality for me and your views on religion and God.

You suffer through all of this, and I will then entertain breaking down step-by-step the details to your questions.

Devil's Advocate says: Shouldn't we here require the same from you before we answer any of your questions?

Perhaps it was not your intention (or perhaps it was) to sound like such an arrogant @ss here but that is how it sounded to me.

FWIW,

Ken

[MaxxumUSA]

Perhaps it was not your intention (or perhaps it was) to sound like such an arrogant @ss here but that is how it sounded to me.

FWIW,

Ken

Ken,

I was thinking the same thing earlier.  SO...  I started my 10,000 word essay in advance...  been working on it all morning.

Good thing I refreshed this page and noticed your post.  Now I don't need all those words to justify myself, because now I can simply agree with you.

Whew...  Thanks Ken.  Saved me a lot of work!  LOL

[ecr844]

Ken,

I was thinking the same thing earlier.  SO...  I started my 10,000 word essay in advance...  been working on it all morning.

Good thing I refreshed this page and noticed your post.  Now I don't need all those words to justify myself, because now I can simply agree with you.

Whew...  Thanks Ken.  Saved me a lot of work!  LOL

"MAXXUM,"

   I would have just told the 'guy' to; "go ahead and hold 'his' breath, and be sure not to stop until I got back to 'him'"...Minimum response time...72 hrs.   :selfharm: you go "Ken,"!

[sensei]

How old are you Sensei?

41. I am not going to ask about your age because you obviously have an issue with people asking you questions.

Before I entertain breaking all of this down for you, give me a minimal 10,000 word profile on yourself, why you are here, your reason for looking abroad.

They were already answered elsewhere so use the search.

Also define morality for me and your views on religion and God. You suffer through all of this, and I will then entertain breaking down step-by-step the details to your questions.

Interesting. You are punishing me because of the sins I committed by asking you questions, which you felt were morally wrong??? With your superior attitude, who died and made you God?

*sighs*

You were being pretty brash and snippy for no reason. Therefore, I am not interested into getting in an argument over something stupid and silly. How would a RUW react to your behavior by snapping at someone?   

~ sensei

[sensei]

Devil's Advocate says: Shouldn't we here require the same from you before we answer any of your questions?

I agreed. There is nothing wrong with asking questions. We are all here to learn from each other. I am here to learn from the veterans since I am only a rookie. 

~ sensei

[MaxxumUSA]

41. I am not going to ask about your age because you obviously have an issue with people asking you questions.

You were being pretty brash and snippy for no reason.
~ sensei

He's 33 or 34 based on the 1973 date.

I take issue to his posts in this thread.

First issues is the more recent post.  Sensei's questions did not bear the sound of a flame.  I think he asked challenging questions that quite honestly crossed my mind also - but I basically did not ask because I figured CLB1973 was so off base that the responses might be just as much off base.

But...  now I am interested where his post came from.  Obviously his personal observations - which might be interesting as a perspective.

CLB - you said - basically - that MEN cause the problems with AW selfishness.  I disagree strongly based on my experiences.

The selfish women I have come across are selfish because they are selfish people.  My last AW GF has two daughters and does not want custody of them because she is too busy partying.  She does not want a good man to marry her because she wants to sleep around with different men.

I knew her ex-husband and I know he was a hard working man - loved her very much - and she did the same to him that she did to me.  She wanted her freedom, was stubborn, did not try to solve problems in the relationship, and when things did not go her way - would make you feel like crap for it.  VERY selfish indeed.

The sad part about this situation with this one woman is that this happens often here in the USA.  It appauls me.  THEN - These women strut around the bars until 3 am telling everyone how sweet and innocent they are - and go home with a stranger for some sex.  THAT's SELFISH - but I don't see how this was fueled by a man.

That is my comments on just one of the ideas in your post.  I will let someone else comment on other points you tried to make if they want.  Right now I want to go have a beer or two with friends.

[TigerPaws]

I find it interesting to hear CLB1973's take, do you really believe AM are responsible for the attitude of AW"?

I do not agree, feminism and the me, me, me culture have made AW what they are today, a family, husband and children are simply accessories to their lifestyle, work and money are the most important objects in their life.

TigerPaws

[sensei]

The sad part about this situation with this one woman is that this happens often here in the USA.  It appauls me.  THEN - These women strut around the bars until 3 am telling everyone how sweet and innocent they are - and go home with a stranger for some sex.  THAT's SELFISH - but I don't see how this was fueled by a man.

The word "selfish" is sometimes a common theme to see in the US. And I didn't understand how it could be fueled by a man either.

BTW Maxxum, I think you live not far from me. We should go for a beer sometimes.    

~ sensei

[sensei]

I find it interesting to hear CLB1973's take, do you really believe AM are responsible for the attitude of AW"?

I do not agree, feminism and the me, me, me culture have made AW what they are today, a family, husband and children are simply accessories to their lifestyle, work and money are the most important objects in their life.

TigerPaws

Ironically, that is exactly what my folks said about the current behavior and attitude of AW in our modern society when we had a discussion about why guys like me have had a hard time finding the right woman for marriage and family.

~ sensei

[Jet]

Don't mind answering CLB's questions, but I probably don't have the answers he (she?) wants to hear 

--was a dissatisfaction with American women (or women in your home country, if you are not based in US) the key thing that motivated you to begin searching abroad?

No, it really wasn't. I met a woman that taught me to look at the world in a different way, and that intrigued me to the point that I wanted to learn more. Once I did, that woman became my wife.

I would say most AW I dated considered "family" a punchline to a joke. Dating was reduced to nothing more than a pool of candidates who were looking to be charmed and spoiled and in return you would get easy sex (if I wanted it.) When I learned that RW/UW were family oriented, that was all I needed to hear since I had no interest in the US dating scene.

Sounds like you were Lookin' for love in all the wrong places and when the slut-du-jour lost it's novelty, you decided the grass was greener on the other side of the pond...

--why do you think these problems exist?  Do you think that feminism is responsible for these problems, as I have often seen discussed, or something else?  If so, what do you think "feminism" means or includes?

Ask a hundred women for the definition of feminism and you'll get a hundred radically different answers, so with such a diverse interpretation of what feminism actually is, how can you (or anyone) assert that feminism is to blame? I do think the radical "feminazis" (that believe woman are SO superior as to render the males of the species totally irrelevant) have done some damage, but at the core, I've got to say the conspicuous consumerism that is the way of life in America has done FAR more damage to "family values" than anything else.

I think the men here created these problems. Feminism has some blame, but in general EVERY female I found "non desirable" due to selfishness, there was always a man behind this behavior that fueled it. Men pay a premium here for easy sex and most gals like another poster stated does not know herself well enough and what she truly wants out of life to avoid the static until she meets a suitable family oriented mate.

Speak for yourself, since you don't know the men here, your accusations are completely unfounded. One thing I've learned over the years is that while a woman may not know what she wants, she ALWAYS knows what she doesn't want.

I will put it this way, the first time I hear a single woman say "I am looking for these "X" qualities in a  mate becuase I feel this will make him a good father "would be the first time for me.

Sorry to hear that, again, you need to stop hanging out with trailer-trash Barbie and or office bimbo Skipper

I know there are some guys here that have a real bone to pick with American chicks, and for some guys their choices are limited due to their station in life (excessively high or low), but for me, the fact that she was Russian mostly just made the courtship more logistically inconvenient  :noidea: I married a woman that I was attracted to, and understood she was equally attracted to me. The fact that she was Russian really had very little to do with it, she could just as easily have been American.

[TigerPaws]

Interesting turn this thread has taken.

I will say that unlike some here I did go looking for a Russian bride, not a lady from Ukraine or the other FSU countries. While I did visit many of them several times and met a number of ladies I settled on finding a very traditional Russian lady, so I concentrated my search exclusively in Russia.

TigerPaws   

[CLB1973]

Interesting, becuase it is the very denial in this thread which leads me to believe that some of the participants here are responsible for the product we have today to choose from.

I will put it this, you take every FSU lady and exchange them out for the USA gals, how many years would it take before they become the equivalent to what we dread now in a marriage partner? How long before the slimeballs crawled from underneath the rocks to taint another pool of women.

Everytime you see a guy (and there are millions out there) playing a doormat to a woman, what result do you think that has in this society? How many liars, cheaters and players do we have out there in the dating scene saying and promising to mulitiple women to get into her pants? And yes the female population in their "must have it all mentality" are the perfect victims to abuse. Hell no do I not hold the women blameless in this, if they had an ounce of vision, the many dirtbags out there would resort back to the one-toothed crack whore prositutes for their ONS's and BS lies. I never stated ALL MEN corrupted women, but there are sure in hell enough of them out there creating enough static. There is no way in hell anyone here is going to convince me on a massive scale the male population was "Mr. Innocent" and did not have a hand in this scene.

I do distrust this poster who is challenging my post becuase that is excatly what this is. So proceed on Sensi with whatever preplanned retort you had to begin with, wasting my time giving you additional details.

[CLB1973]

"CLB - you said - basically - that MEN cause the problems with AW selfishness.  I disagree strongly based on my experiences.

The selfish women I have come across are selfish because they are selfish people.  My last AW GF has two daughters and does not want custody of them because she is too busy partying.  She does not want a good man to marry her because she wants to sleep around with different men.

I knew her ex-husband and I know he was a hard working man - loved her very much - and she did the same to him that she did to me. 

I believe everything you said. And your point drives to the very issue of what bothers me the most. Who relishes this party girl with all the attention? Now unlike maxxum, I will not insult you having encoutered this type of "girl." By the second there are "decent" guys who knowingly get into relationship with these types of women knowing there backgrounds and then wonder why they get burnt? There are guys who need to quit enabling these bytches with attention. Which goes back to my orginal point, you see a spoiled rotten to the core girl, look at who gives her this perception of herself.

[I/O]

Interesting turn this thread has taken.

Don't they always?

Back to the topic heading for a minute.  My experiences with American women are about as varied as is possible in spite of the limited number.  3 worth mentioning.  The first about 20 years ago, one classy lady every way you like to look at her.  She had it all.  We clicked from the get go and it never looked back until I decided we both needed more time to be certain. (We were talking marriage at that point) Time, as it turned out demonstrated that neither of us, at that time, had the patience to go the distance. 

The second was well after my divorce, a quality, attractive, down to earth girl who had one basic weakness.  She was seriously terrified of flying.  Shuttling between here and USA by boat kinda wasn't gunna work so I called it quits before it really went anywhere.

The third. Hmm  there had been some on line communications and something wasn't quite sitting right with me. Nevertheless, I was in Dallas with a few days to spare so I loaded my self on a Greyhound coach and headed east........fair way east.......go figure. My old dad always says, expect the worst and you won't be disappointed.  Surfice to say I wasn't disappointed. One glance on meeting was enough to tell the internet profile had been falsified to a massive extent.  Upon opening her mouth, the picture only deteriorated.  I think I spoke one sentence and turned back to the greyhound ticket counter. The ticket clerk asked where I was going, and I said, "Don't care, any coach that gets me out of here will do just fine".

Oh there was one other of note.  'Bout 3 years or so ago, communicating online with an American lady.  Few friendly emails and a couple of phone calls. Nothing substantial so to say.  We did swap addresses at one point. :selfharm: Low and behold, she turns up on my doorstep. :hairraising: :hairraising: Yep, she flew to Aus just "On Spec".  I could not believe it and I still can't.  The detracters among my friends regarding internet introductions had "A Ball" when they found out.  They gave me hell for weeks.

Haven't dated an American woman since.

I/O

[Jet]

Again, you seem to assert that this is an exclusively American problem

By the second there are "decent" guys who knowingly get into relationship with these types of women knowing there backgrounds and then wonder why they get burnt?

There are PLENTY of guys going abroad who get into relationships with these types of women not knowing their backgrounds, and then wonder why they get burnt!

Which goes back to my orginal point, you see a spoiled rotten to the core girl, look at who gives her this perception of herself.

Then how do you explain the spoiled women in China, Thailand, Philippines, Russia, Brazil, Mexico where traditional values are high priorities, and in some countries mentioned women are taught to be subservient? There will always be women that don't know or believe their true value, but also there will be a percentage of women that will continue to OVER valuate themselves. The reason you don't see it when traveling abroad is because these women have it so good with the local guys, you'll probably never have the opportunity to cross paths with them.

[CLB1973]

Again, you seem to assert that this is an exclusively American problem

I was speaking off American relationships since the OP targeted American women.  We are talking about American relationships...


There are PLENTY of guys going abroad who get into relationships with these types of women not knowing their backgrounds, and then wonder why they get burnt!

Okay? What is the point? Did I say foreign men traveling abroad will not get burnt for making bad decisions?


Then how do you explain the spoiled women in China, Thailand, Philippines, Russia, Brazil, Mexico where traditional values are high priorities, and in some countries mentioned women are taught to be subservient? There will always be women that don't know or believe their true value, but also there will be a percentage of women that will continue to OVER valuate themselves. The reason you don't see it when traveling abroad is because these women have it so good with the local guys, you'll probably never have the opportunity to cross paths with them.

Again, did I say spoiled women was exclusive to the USA? The thread is about AM to AW experiences.

[Jet]

Again, you seem to assert that this is an exclusively American problem

I was speaking off American relationships since the OP targeted American women.  We are talking about American relationships...

As I understood the intent of the questions, we are talking about comparison and contrast of domestic vs international relationships.

There are PLENTY of guys going abroad who get into relationships with these types of women not knowing their backgrounds, and then wonder why they get burnt!

Okay? What is the point? Did I say foreign men traveling abroad will not get burnt for making bad decisions?

The point is that a round trip ticket to an exotic destination where they speak a different language and use a different alphabet is not a magic bullet to solve your dating problems. It's actually a harder way to go, and requires greater relationship skills than dating within your own country.

[TigerPaws]

Interesting, becuase it is the very denial in this thread which leads me to believe that some of the participants here are responsible for the product we have today to choose from. The "product" we have in America today (AW) is largely because of the culture in America dating back to the late 60's and early 70's. The feminist movement produced profound effects in the media, TV, movies and a popular belief that women could have it all started a lot of the issues with women we have today in America. Additionally our consumer driven society says you need more, newer and better everything, which means women are encouraged to work long hard hours to further a career at the expense of their personal life, relationships and family. This coupled with the relative isolation of people in America to direct personal contact with other cultures is a large part of the problem. AW expect AM to accept their bad attitudes, their demanding spoiled nature and the outright stupid concept that a man should love them for who and what they are ill regardless if they look like a bowling ball with legs.

I will put it this, you take every FSU lady and exchange them out for the USA gals, how many years would it take before they become the equivalent to what we dread now in a marriage partner? How long before the slimeballs crawled from underneath the rocks to taint another pool of women. Women and men get what they are looking for, nothing more nothing less, if a man is willing to fish in a sewer then he will only catch crap. What you CLB1973 fail to see and accept is the basic cultural differences, between America and the FSU, comparing the two is difficult at best as the culture, lifestyle and history are vastly different.

Everytime you see a guy (and there are millions out there) playing a doormat to a woman, what result do you think that has in this society? If a man is being a doormat then that is HIS problem not the AW. How many liars, cheaters and players do we have out there in the dating scene saying and promising to mulitiple women to get into her pants? WHAT! Who cares every society has this, big deal that is NOT the overriding problem. And yes the female population in their "must have it all mentality" are the perfect victims to abuse. Hell no do I not hold the women blameless in this, if they had an ounce of vision, the many dirtbags out there would resort back to the one-toothed crack whore prositutes for their ONS's and BS lies. I never stated ALL MEN corrupted women, but there are sure in hell enough of them out there creating enough static. You need to look at the big picture and get out of the bars, what you are talking about is a very small subset of society. There is no way in hell anyone here is going to convince me on a massive scale the male population was "Mr. Innocent" and did not have a hand in this scene. AM have been complacent in the whole rise if the women syndrome in America largely driven by the media, so to that extent yes AM are part of the problem which is why men began seeking brides from other countries, AM were tired of their choices here in America. 

I do distrust this poster who is challenging my post becuase that is excatly what this is. So proceed on Sensi with whatever preplanned retort you had to begin with, wasting my time giving you additional details.

Your thoughts are welcome even though they are flawed it.

TigerPaws

[Jet]

Tiger has stated this in a little bit different way, but I'm confident that he and I are "on the same page" regarding cause and effect.

Regarding the earlier comment about an "exchange program" between AW going to Russia and RW coming here - It all depends on what they are exposed to while abroad. It would be just as easy to turn a group of good hearted American girls into ruthless conniving manipulative Russian b!tches as it would be to pollute "traditional" Russian ladies minds in the US, depending on the situation you place them in.

[CLB1973]

As I understood the intent of the questions, we are talking about comparison and contrast of domestic vs international relationships.
The point is that a round trip ticket to an exotic destination where they speak a different language and use a different alphabet is not a magic bullet to solve your dating problems. It's actually a harder way to go, and requires greater relationship skills than dating within your own country.[sub][/sub]

Like the orginal challenger to my post, your whole intention was to insult me. Anything else you want to add? Just be a man about it and jump right to the name calling next time.

Go back and think about one of the points you were trying to make with me where you basically want to make feminism synomomous with spoiled. You even admitted this is not true, so what causes another female away in Russia, Brazil, China, etc to become spoiled? Are they making calls to the 1800feminazi number?