Got a "Dear John" today.

[phantom]

Well, today I got a dear John letter.  It's a shame too, my passports almost here.  We'd been coresponding since May, as she contacted me first.  It started with just every other day or so, sometimes three.  Then it got to be every day, from June, until July.  The letter before the Dear John, she was talking about soul-mates, and love.  We really should try to make our aim.  Ring me any time, as she looking foreward to hearing my voice again.  So, while on break I called, two days later.  The terp rang her phone, I had to wait.  Seemed two minutes, then I was told that she must be away and does not have her phone with her.  The terp told me try later, the next day.  But, really didn't have the tone like a should call.  Then, today I got a letter from here.  With her aplogies, she knew that I'd only be coming to the Ukraine for her.  But, while she was at the ea side, she done some thinking about us, and all that we could ever be would be friends.  So, do not even try, as it would get me know where.
Talk about a flip, from the one with love and try to reach our aim. then she ended it with regret, her name.

Well my regret to.  The time and money spent, over $300, cripes.  After that one, I cleaned out all the letters on my onsite mail and dumped all the sent letters as well.  Then, I just got an email notification of a new girl.  I didn't even read it, just dumped the notification email.  The next one that starts talking about love and care and worry about you, is going to get a dear Nadya letter.  Time amd money, not well spent.  Two week lay off soon, should have my passport, think I'll just lay on a beach in the Bahamas.

[mervin]

Sorry to hear that phantom.  What agency are you using and what city is this girl from?

You know, I've developed a new strategy to things over the past few months and although I understand that there are many different ways a person can approach things to find success, I'm convinced I have one of the most effective approaches.

First, the more I think about it the more I am coming to understand that letter writing is a waste of time. Letters are something you write after you've met the girl, not before. Yeah, that may go against conventional wisdom, but what a guy really needs to do (IMHO) is not contact any agencies until about a month before he's ready to leave the country. Send the agency your profile, along with a few pictures and give them a list of the women that you're interested in meeting. (keep in mind I'm talking about UA here, not Russia as you need a visa an invite letter to get into Russia, so you might actually need to be corresponding with someone) Once you get a list of the women who have agreed to meet with you then get on the plane and go. Getting involved in a prolonged letter writing campaign doesn't necessarily assure a person greater success. If anything, I think it creates subconscious bias because if you're going on a trip to meet multiple women anyway (which you should be in my opinion) you might be giving preferential treatment to the lady with whom you corresponded with the most, even though your meetings with her might not be going as well as the meetings you're having with some of the other girls you've met. I dunno... I just think that when a guy spends 3 months writing letters to a girl he's gonna try his damndest to make things work, even though all the signs are telling him things aren't going to work out. If you don't write letters at all you've got no bias and you're in a better position to make things work.  You're also not going to step on your pecker by saying something that's going to offend a lady because she won't have received any letters from you. Chemistry is everything, and all the letters in the world can't save you if after the first 5 minutes with the girl you realize that there aren't any sparks.

I also think guys need to be damn careful when they're corresponding with non English speaking girls. Yeah, you can do it once you're on the ground in Russia or Ukraine, but I just think that it's trouble when you're doing it from behind a telephone or a keyboard because instead of putting your faith in 1 person, you're putting it in 2 people. Maybe I'm crazy, but I just don't trust most interpreters.

[Sohkay]

Phantom,

This is such a little blip in time. Also, if you're giving up after an event like this, then you probably don't have the perserverance to carry this search out to a successful conclusion. I'm not flaming you or attacking you, just letting you know that there can be numerous challenges in the pursuit of an FSUW. Also, if $300 is throwing you off, then financially, this process is also not for you.

Good luck.

[Gator]

Phantom,

Go to Ukraine.   The hell with her.

Arrange an apartment with Cindy Agency in Dnepropetrovsk (or Kherson's Girls in Kherson, Kiev Connections in Kiev,  All-Beautiful in Kharkov).  They will set up dates for about $20-25 (one time charge for each woman).  

Have a good time.  Experience this endeavor.  

Perhaps meet someone you wish to meet again on a second trip and meet only her.  WOVO on the first trip is romantic but ends frequently in problems and disappointment.

Try to date women who know at least a little English (it is an indicator of  important qualities).  Buy an electronic translator.

Now you know what to do!

[Rvrwind]

First, the more I think about it the more I am coming to understand that letter writing is a waste of time. Letters are something you write after you've met the girl, not before.

Ahhh, for a noob you are showing some wisdom young padawan!

Yeah, that may go against conventional wisdom, but what a guy really needs to do (IMHO) is not contact any agencies until about a month before he's ready to leave the country.

Not at all, I agree wholeheatedly to a point. I wouldn't say not contact the agency, but rather not contact any ladies until a month before. The agency will sometimes need some lead time to make your travel arrangements, not always, but if you have already chosen the agency & the city why not drop them a line & let them know, will give them a heads up. But don't choose to write to any ladies until you are almost ready to go.
Phantom, no worries mate, get on the plane, come see me, I'll have you too busy to think about the one that got away!!

Send the agency your profile, along with a few pictures and give them a list of the women that you're interested in meeting. (keep in mind I'm talking about UA here, not Russia as you need a visa an invite letter to get into Russia, so you might actually need to be corresponding with someone)

Excellent, I'm actually liking your learing curve, very sound except for the ending. You do not need to be corresponding with someone to come here. There are online services that will provide your Visa & Invitation & it can be had within' 2 days for a extra fee of course!

Once you get a list of the women who have agreed to meet with you then get on the plane and go.

Why wait for an answer to the list,just go!! If they are an honest agency & their women are real & serious about their search & you are not butt ugly I can assure you that 100% of your choices at our agency will meet you, unless of course they are out of town on vacation or other extenuating circumstances. But if they are here, they will meet you, if they don't, they will answer to me!
As for the rest of your post mervin , Well put, you will soon join the ranks of the Jedi Masters should you continue to learn your lessons so well!!!
As I said Phantom, Come see me, you won't be wasting your vacation time, I assure you. You will meet as any ladies as you can handle & have a trip to remember, & just think, you even get to test my mettle & see if I can put my agency where my mouth is!! Some would consider that being worth the trip!

[CLB1973]

Consider yourself blessed to find out now and not after two weeks of BS and $3-4K spent.

[BC]

Another 'strike' for 'she wrote me first'.

Where did the 300 bucks go?.. my guess is a good cut went to Yuri.

[I/O]

Phantom: Another example of all the emphisis for travel being placed upon meeting the lady. No lady, no reason to travel. One thing freshman need to learn fast is that you have to have it in you to travel regardless of the women if you really want to make something out of this whole thing.

$300.00 :hairraising:  That's chicken schit.  Try adding a couple of zeros to that number by the time you get done from end to end if you really want to make it through.  When something we were hoping on goes toes up it is always disappointing, but this is a road less travelled for some very good reasons.  It can be quite a rough and bendy road.

As Richard well knows, I am no great fan of agents of any sort, however, in this instance, I would suggest you hook yourself up with him or other similar agent, take a trip and get wised up a little.

I/O

[Simoni]

Two week lay off soon, should have my passport, think I'll just lay on a beach in the Bahamas.

Sorry for the bad news, Phantom.   My advice to everyone is to NOT have a long letter exchange with any girl.  Better to write 5 or 6 girls three letters and then go meet them.  If you write too long, some other guy might follow my advice and meet the girl you are writing....and steal here away. Happens all the time.

Better to just go there and meet her.

Good luck.

[Kuna]

Phantom,

Sorry to hear of your bad news... 

I'm curious how she got your contact details?  Where did the $300 go?

If she was talking abut soulmates etc it should have been sending off alarm bells in the beginning.  $300 is such a small drop in the ocean and there are MANY catches ahead... Still, let me asure you that when you find the RIGHT girl it'll all be worth it.

Take a holiday in FSU and use it to learn about the people and the culture...  While you're there do as Gator suggests and use local agencies.  You won't regret it!

Kuna

[jb]

Yes, indeed another strike against answering letters originating from over there.  Cooresponding since May you say, a bit over 2 months... $300.00 probably covers the agency fees for letters at about $10.00 per letter/round trip for a couple of months.

I seriously doubt the girl was real in the first place, you were probably writing to an agency translator and talking to an agency interperter.   While I can't say for sure it sounds like you were a victim of an unscrupulous agency.  You'd better hook up with someone like Richard or Kevin to get you started off on the right foot.

[Gator]

Phantom,

I do not know the procedure of every agency.  I can tell you about one Californian I met in Dnepropetrovsk.  He wrote zero letters.  Instead he studied the catalogue when in America and upon arrival gave a list of 15-20 women to the office manager.  The office manager then made dates.  

He started at Cindy Agency and then crossed the street to Majestic Agency, and later went up the hill to another agency in the Angelica network.  There was some down time, and he used that to study the catalogues some more (or BS with men like me).

He was a busy boy and spent just one hour with each woman.  He bought no dinners.  As the week progressed, he started follow-up dating with a few women with whom he felt some "chemistry."   I assume his goal was to find one woman worthy of a return trip a couple of months later.

You situation may or may not have been a scam, but $300 is a hell-of-a-lot-of letters with one woman.  Even if it were not a scam, one meeting could easily destroy the relationship built through 50 letters.  

If you have time, I would follow Simoni's suggestion that you write not more than three letters to any woman just to initiate mutual interest.   Then get on a plane.  If you make the trip, you are ahead of 95% of the men (only 1 out of 20 make the trip supposedly).  If you are better looking than a monkey, you should expect to have mutual interest with a few women.  The most difficult problem is deciding whom to meet for the second and third time.

[GregfromGa]

Laying on a beach in The Bahamas vs walking down Khreshatic in Sept. It aint even close. I cant convince you to go to Ukraine but I really dont think this process is for everyone. I've said from day 1 that if you cant talk with the girl then walk away and find a girl you can talk with. Too much is lost in translation.

[Wayne B]

Phantom, up thread from my post is all you need.....you have been given very good advise  Take the advise and go go go....you will never regret a trip to the FSU..

[SANDRO43]

If you are better looking than a monkey, you should expect to have mutual interest with a few women.

... and if not, with a proper attitude you can always get their attention, anyway .

[jb]

 (keep in mind I'm talking about UA here, not Russia as you need a visa an invite letter to get into Russia, so you might actually need to be corresponding with someone)

This is kinda misleading, one only needs to apply for the Russian visa through one of the many visa agencies such as  gotorussia.com  or traveldocs.com , they will provide all the necessary paperwork for the visa.  Getting a visa to visit Russia is really quite easy.

[IAmZon]

Whatever you liked to push you to make your original plan still exists ... perhaps just under a different name.

I like the Bahamas too.  But what is a better adventure? 

Doubt you are interested in meeting the local ladies of the Bahamas:)

[BC]

I think any first time passport holder is quite misplaced in this venture.  The Bahamas might be a better deal in the end.

[ecr844]

I think any first time passport holder is quite misplaced in this venture.  The Bahamas might be a better deal in the end.

"BC,"

  I would disagree in that like most things I think it has alot more to do with the person, and their ability to adapt and be openminded, etc..; and much less to do with length of time with a passport in hand. My first trip 'out of the country' was to Russia....It was both a trip I'll never forget an one which i will repeat a number of times more.

ECR844

[GregfromGa]

I think any first time passport holder is quite misplaced in this venture.  The Bahamas might be a better deal in the end.

   You are probably right with this. As a matter of fact you are dead on target. My first trip was to Tallinn Estonia and then I went with friends. Like I've said before this process isnt for everyone. It's expensive and it takes lots of patience.

[Gator]

JB wrote,

This is kinda misleading, one only needs to apply for the Russian visa through one of the many visa agencies such as  gotorussia.com  or traveldocs.com , they will provide all the necessary paperwork for the visa.  Getting a visa to visit Russia is really quite easy

True.  Except that Russia has added another step to the visa registration process.  If you stay in an apartment, one must make three trips after arriving:

1.  Go to the GoTo Russia office (a hole in a wall behind a hole in a wall) and complete a form ($40 please).
2.  Return in 1-2 days to obtain registration.
3.  On the day before your return flight, drop the registration off (but carry  copy in case of a problem at Passport Kontrol).

In Ukraine, no visa application ($200) and sweating about sending your passport away and awaiting its receipt before you depart.  And no visa registration ($40).

I am in Moscow now.  It was my favorite FSU city for four years.  Moscow is not the same today.  Traffic is horrible.  The metro is overcrowded.  Prices are expensive.  Girls are recent arrivals from the provinces and do not look nearly as well as they did in the past.  Even my woman met me without makeup - saying she is tired of men liking her just for her beauty (she still looks great).  Ukraine feels like Russia from a few years ago.

[USCFAN]

A lot of good advice in this thread.

I was never 'scammed' in the sense I sent money overseas, but the whole letter writing process turn into frustration after frustration. That is why I am 'just going over there'. I'm looking forward to the adventure, meeting a lot of ladies, making some new friends, and if a couple turn into a possible something ... great!

My .02 is that you don't give up on the idea Phantom. Time and time again, you see (or read here) that those that made the journey had an excellent time and never regretted it.

I can't wait for September to get here 

[ecr844]

   You are probably right with this. As a matter of fact you are dead on target. My first trip was to Tallinn Estonia and then I went with friends. Like I've said before this process isnt for everyone. It's expensive and it takes lots of patience.

Are we talking about the factr that with the right attitude the FSU is a fine first trip. Or are we talking about the paltry $300 spent above and the immediate lack of desire to get on a plane after a small setback?

[mervin]

This is kinda misleading, one only needs to apply for the Russian visa through one of the many visa agencies such as  gotorussia.com  or traveldocs.com , they will provide all the necessary paperwork for the visa.  Getting a visa to visit Russia is really quite easy.

I didn't say a guy couldn't get go to Russia without before he started writing letters. What I was trying to imply is the fact that most guys aren't going to take a "wing it" approach when they're going to Russia because of all the miscellaneous BS, so they're probably going to start writing to women in advance.

[GregfromGa]

Are we talking about the factr that with the right attitude the FSU is a fine first trip. Or are we talking about the paltry $300 spent above and the immediate lack of desire to get on a plane after a small setback?

   I'm not understanding the question. I certainly am a big advocate of cutting to the chase and getting on the plane and going regardless. I wrote to a girl for a month and went to see her. It eventually didnt workout but thats neither here nor there. I wouldnt recommend going to the FSU without a wingman or friend. It can be a tough place to be alone. Not for me because talking and meeting strangers isnt my weakness. Not everyone can do this. I've seen guys that go there,their dates fall through and they sit in their rooms for the next 6 days.