Business visa to Russia

[Rattlehead]

I am an American man and I'm going to move to Moscow to teach English.  I may travel before obtaining employment, or I may obtain freelance employment, in which case I wouldn't have all the help with my visa and work permit that one would normally get from a language school that hired you.  Does anyone know much about business visas here?  I would like to get one before I obtain employment actually, so that I have the flexibility to accept exclusively freelance work if I decide to, so that I can travel early before I accept a job, and so that I can make more than one trip, or side trips, if need be or desired.

Do I need to have a job already lined up or already work for a company that is sending me to Russia on business?  I've heard that many tourists use business visas if they want to stay for longer than a month. 

I quit my job (which had nothing to do with working in Russia anyway) to take a course to become an English teacher.  That was in June, and I'm planning on leaving in September, and since it's pointless to look for a job for such a short time I am unemployed at the moment. 

A Russian friend recommended a travel agency that her friend used.  This agency only issues letters for business visas.  On the online form they ask for your job outside of Russia.  My Russian friend said that her friend (also from America and also quit his job to teach there) put down the company that his grandfather worked for.  Do they really not check?  Would they care if I put "none" down under job?  Here is the agency she recommended, it seemed to work for him: http://unifest.ru/eng/index.html  Is anyone familiar with this agency?  Can regular tourist travel agencies issue business visa invitation letters?

The agency may not care what you put down, but do they print that information on the letter of invitation that I would bring to the Russian consulate? 

Has anyone here done the English teaching thing in the FSU, especially Russia?  Any tips and info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

--Rat

[Rvrwind]

I may travel before obtaining employment, or I may obtain freelance employment, in which case I wouldn't have all the help with my visa and work permit that one would normally get from a language school that hired you.

I wouldn't count on that Bubba.There' s very few schools here that help you with your Visa, most times you are on your own. I've worked for three different ones so far 1 did, two didn't. Also accommodation, None I have worked for supplied accomodation & if your planning on working in Moscow Plan on spending a wack of money on a place to live, half your pay or more depnding on the living conditions you expect.
You don't need a job to get a business Visa but you do need an invitation. That you can get from an online Visa company. I have a one year multi entry business Visa & was invited by the Russian Olympic Commitee!
What you put is not as important as how you put it. All blanks must be filled in. But if you use one of the online companies they can supply your Visa & your letter of invitation.  Best & easiest way to go.

[Phil dAmore]

Ditto to everything Richard said.  I would also like to caution you against having the company that hires you provide your visa support.

Why?  Because then you are beholden to them.  If they decide that your services are no longer needed, they can and likely will cancel your visa. Some schools have been know to use the threat of a visa cancellation to get a teacher to take undesirable classes.  If your visa gets cancelled  this leaves you in a lurch because to get a new visa requires a new invitation and unless you pull some strings there may not be enough time to allow for the new invitation processing before you have to leave the country.  Confused yet?  It gets worse.

The issue of registration is an ongoing subject.  Russia is famous for changing the rules in the middle of the game so what's required today may not be tomorrow and vice versa.  One thing is for sure, it's going to cost you no matter what you do. 

Business visas (get a multi-entry!) are the most expensive to get at the outset but provide the most flexibility.  You can come and go as many times as you please within the term of the visa.  Is re-registration required every time you return to Russia?  Some say yes, some say no.  If you ask 3 different people what the regulation is you will get 3 different answers and directive to go to a different office. Get used to it.

It is possible to find a place to live in Moscow for a relatively reasonable rate but it's going to take some looking and probably the help of some connections. For anything in the 3 digit range you can pretty much count on being out in the sticks.  No matter, all you really need to be is relatively close to a metro station.

As for finding work, recent reports indicate that since Sochi got the Olympics the demand is up for English teachers.  My advice: Do private lessons. They pay the best although they are famously inconsistent.  Try to avoid classes of teenagers. The boys are a pain in the @ss, the girls are far too distracting and none of them really want to do anything except play with their mobile phones. Younger children are okay if you like teaching grammar (ugh!) but it will require a reasonably good command of Russian to get your point across.

The teaching gig isn't nearly as easy as you may think.   I don't know what teaching certification course you took but I strongly advise you to have a good grip on grammar.  Most, if not all of your students prior English studies will likely be based on British English and it is NOT the English you are used to speaking.  Also, Russians are real sticklers for exactness.  They have a hard time understanding that there can be more than one grammatically correct way to express a thought.

I wish you the best of luck as you head into the trenches.

[Rvrwind]

If they decide that your services are no longer needed, they can and likely will cancel your visa. Some schools have been know to use the threat of a visa cancellation to get a teacher to take undesirable classes.  If your visa gets cancelled  this leaves you in a lurch because to get a new visa requires a new invitation and unless you pull some strings there may not be enough time to allow for the new invitation processing before you have to leave the country.

Yeah, just ask me!!   I just went through this a couple of months back, as Phil well knows as he accompanied me to Helsinki. If it wasn't for several boardmembers & their kindness I would have been on the street & that don't go over well in a foreign country!
Also you can be sure if it happens you won't get any backpay owed. I'm out 50,000 roubles from that disaster.
Don't ever think your dealing with people you can trust, no offense to the Russian ladies on the board, but Russian businessmen are notorious for screwing over anybody they can if they figure it will benifit them. CYA Dewd CYA!!! It was a hard lesson for me but I learned it well & now I have people, Russian friends in the right places, who can watch my back, which was something I didn't have before.

[Rattlehead]

Richard:

I've seen a number of schools advertise that they'll help you with your visa, but, regardless, Phil is definitely right about not wanting to be beholden to them.  That's a good point.

As far as accommodations, I've seen some that offer help with that as well, although I suspect I'd want to obtain my own, and take their advertised stipend if they actually offer it.  As far as spending the majority of my income on housing, that's just an accepted fact of life for me, I'm from New York.  The kind of accommodations one can find for the high triple digits to the low quadruple digits in NYC are usually abhorrent, so with some work I may actually do better in Moscow!  LOL! 

The online company I put a link to in my original message only provides the invitations...I don't understand how a company can provide the visa itself.  Only the consulate or embassy of a country can provide visas.  Do you mean they take care of bringing the paperwork to the consulate for you?  The company I referenced sends you the invite and you take that to the consulate.  What companies did you guys use?
When you say, "What you put is not as important as how you put it," I suppose you're saying that my friend was right, and that they don't check?  ...evidently, because you got an invite supposedly from the Russian Olympic Committee!


Phil:

Yes, I agree that the business visa is the best that's why I want to make sure I know what to do in order to get it.  When you talk about registration, are you talking about that card that you need to register in each city you go to?

As far as apartments go, I suspect that I probably wouldn't want to be right in city center anyway!  I'm not a city person at all.  Are either of you in Moscow?  Where do you live?  How complicated is it to maintain residence in Russia as a foreigner?

And, yes, another reason I wanted to avoid depending on the schools for visa support is because I'm considering not even getting a day job at a school and just obtaining freelance private lesson work.  And I totally agree with you about teenagers, that is something that I dread that a school would force me to do.  Teenagers are terrible to teach, and then dealing with the distraction of the beautiful Russian girls on top of it, it would be impossible.

I'm not expecting any cakewalk on the teaching gig, believe me.  I took a CELTA certificate course and that provided a small peek into the world of difficulties that this line of work has.  But what can I do?  I was already very familiar with the differences between British and American English due to entertainment, previous language interest, and having a brother-in-law who is British, and I got used to dealing with it in a classroom environment because my trainers in my CELTA course were British and half the textbooks we used were as well.


I also have a few questions for both of you actually, if you don't mind:


Apparently both of you have taught English in Russia.  Do you still teach, and if not, what do you do now?  What training and credentials did you have before you went to teach English in Russia? 

It seems that the business visa is appropriate for employment as an English teacher at both a language school or as a freelance tutor.  So I don't need a "work visa" then?  What about the work permit?  The schools often claim to get that for you, but if I work freelance, how do I get one?

Also, this is not directly related to visas or English teaching, but I noticed that both of you list Russia as your country of residence.  How long have you each lived there?  When you set out looking for a RW, did you plan it that way, or did you just end up staying?  I ask because nearly all Western men, from what I've seen, intend to take their RW home to their country.  The entire "Russian Bride" industry is obviously built around that paradigm.  The effect of a woman's desire to leave her FSU country has been discussed endlessly.  I am leaving the USA and going to Russia.  I can't predict the future, so I don't know if I'll settle in Russia for the rest of my life, but I can definitively say that I will never move back to the US.  If I don't stay in the Moscow area, I'll try other parts of Russia, if I don't stay in Russia I'll try other parts of Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, or Australia.  But, initially I prefer to stay in Russia a while and see how I like it. 

Like I said, I don't know if you planned on doing the reverse of what most WM do, and move to your RW's country instead of the other way around, but that's what my plan is at the moment.  Or to take a girl from Ukraine and move her to Russia with me or something, but not take her to the West....that's something I'd do to someone I despised, not someone who I'm in love with!  LOL!    Anyway, how did you go about things differently than the majority of men who wanted to do things the traditional way of bringing the poor girl to the West?  Am I starting at a disadvantage with women from agencies (in other words, is it still true that most of them want to leave their countries)?  How should I modify my approach to this, being that I'm coming at it from a sort of "opposite" direction?

Thanks for all your help and any more that you can provide!

--Rat

[mev]

In reply to: "I've heard that many tourists use business visas if they want to stay for longer than a month."

I am currently traveling through Russia for around six months.  I got a one year multiple entry visa starting from the www.waytorussia.net web site.  In addition to this site, the www.expat.ru web site seems to have a lot of useful information in their web forums.

So far my visa process has worked smoothly.  I haven't had to worry about employment nor about renting housing other than short-term hotels.  I've registered the visa in a few places including right after entering the country.  I'm bicycling across Russia and hence spend most of the time on the road and most nights in a tent.

[BC]

Mev,

What an adventure.. enjoying your blog.

[Rvrwind]

Rattlehead, a lot of questins, LOL. I'll try to answer as best I can. I'll leave Phil's for him to reply to, LOL.

I've seen a number of schools advertise that they'll help you with your visa, but, regardless, Phil is definitely right about not wanting to be beholden to them.  That's a good point.

Yes, that was part of the problem I had & why I had to get to Helsinki asap & get a new Visa as the SOB I was working for cancelled mine & didn't & still hasn't paid me what is owed.

As far as accommodations, I've seen some that offer help with that as well, although I suspect I'd want to obtain my own, and take their advertised stipend if they actually offer it.  As far as spending the majority of my income on housing,

Actually some do & if you are smart you will take it. Accomodation s not esy to find in a nice area & usually if they are offering it, it will be in a respectable nieghborhood & will save you mega bucks. If you don't you will not likely get higher pay in lue of so is best to accept it.

The online company I put a link to in my original message only provides the invitations...I don't understand how a company can provide the visa itself.

The company I worked for registered me as a student & I was issued a student Visa. Every year their Lawyer would take my passport for a week & go to the OVIR & fill out the proper documentation & return my passport with an extension on my original Visa. I only needed to provide my proof of registration & a place to live. They handled everything else. The problem with this type of Visa however is you cannot leave the country without applying for an Exit/ReEntry permit & it can be cancelled & you forced out of the country within 30 days!!

When you say, "What you put is not as important as how you put it," I suppose you're saying that my friend was right, and that they don't check?

No they don't check, unless there is a problem or you do something stupid in Russia, then you can bet they will check. For the most part it is a mere formality & as long as you stay out of trouble it will never become an issue.

Apparently both of you have taught English in Russia.  Do you still teach, and if not, what do you do now?  What training and credentials did you have before you went to teach English in Russia?

LMAO, now thats a long story, LOL. Phil is still teaching or was last time I saw him a month or so ago. I however am currently unemployed other than my agency. I did have an appointment in Moscow today but had to stave it off or a few days as I recieved some bad news from Canada yesterday & I need to be close to home & the phone for a couple of days in case things should go south fast. I then may be required to return to Canada immediately so starting a new job is going to have to wait for a few days perhaps a week. Sorry getting a little personal there.
As for credentials, I have none. I speak English, for many here that is good enough. However it does put limits on the scope of my chances for employment & the wages I can expect. When I return to Canada I am going to get my TOFL & TESL courses & cirtificates as they will allow me a broader rang of opportunities & higher salary.
As far as the work permit, never had one, nor does Phil I believe. I own my own business here & still I cannot legally work there. Work permits are very difficult & a long process to obtain. However they are trying to change that I am told. Most of us work for cash, under the table. We don't claim it & we don't pay taxes on it it here or back home. There is no cheque stubs or T4's to show how much you make or any of that nonsense.

It seems that the business visa is appropriate for employment as an English teacher at both a language school or as a freelance tutor.  So I don't need a "work visa" then?  What about the work permit?  The schools often claim to get that for you, but if I work freelance, how do I get one?

A business Visa is good for anything & anybody who wants to stay in country for more than 30 days whether working or not. No, you do not need a Work Visa, in fact I've never heard of this animal here. The work permit only if the company you are working for requires you to have it, otherwise don't worry about it. Working Freelance is another whole bag of woms. Although more lucrative than private shools it is a difficult market to break into & you need connections in high places to make that happen. You first must get a good reputation through a private school & then after that you can branch out providing you have cultivated the pipline that will allow you to do that. I am currently woking that angle myself as I want to go freelance but it takes time to become known n the places where it counts.

Also, this is not directly related to visas or English teaching, but I noticed that both of you list Russia as your country of residence.  How long have you each lived there?

I have been her a little over 4 years & Phil was here about a year before me.

When you set out looking for a RW, did you plan it that way, or did you just end up staying?

For me it was a sort of forced situation but not one that I didn't care to undertake. A very long story I'd rather not get into. Also the fact that my wife was not really into leaving Russia made the decision simple.

I ask because nearly all Western men, from what I've seen, intend to take their RW home to their country.  The entire "Russian Bride" industry is obviously built around that paradigm.  The effect of a woman's desire to leave her FSU country has been discussed endlessly.

Yes, it is, but consider this. If you truly want to know if the woman you love loves you, tell her you will be living in Russia. If she freaks, dump her, if she says like my wife did, that it doesn't matter where we live as long as we are together,marry her, fast before someone else does!
Not all women listed at agencies are there to just 'get out of Russia'. A lot of them would prefer to stay if their man would, but most men havn't got what it takes to make a go of it in Russia. It is not an easy place to live & everything you are used to in your country must be forgotten because this is Russia & its a whole different world over here.

I am leaving the USA and going to Russia.  I can't predict the future, so I don't know if I'll settle in Russia for the rest of my life, but I can definitively say that I will never move back to the US.

Deffinetly the way to find out if your woman loves you or is just looking for a tiket to paradise!

Am I starting at a disadvantage with women from agencies (in other words, is it still true that most of them want to leave their countries)?  How should I modify my approach to this, being that I'm coming at it from a sort of "opposite" direction?

Not at all. Look at it from her perspaective for a second or two. If she goes to the west she has to leave everything she has ever known all her life, her family, her friends, her culture, her language. Being here having done that I know how hard it is. It is not an easy decision for a lot of these ladies, contrary to popular opinion & website hype. Most would prefer to stay but their chances are severly limited. If they can get the combination of a western man with a western perspective & personality & live with him in Russia, that is much more preferrable than moving abroad & leaving their entire life behind.
I hope I got all your questions answered, sorry for the lengthy post.
By the way, I live in Tver, 2 hours North of Moscow & 6 hours South of SPB. It is a city of 600,000, close enough to Moscow to have everything available tous but a hellof a lot cheaper than Moscow. Also visiting my buddy Phil once in awhile or him & Nina coming to Tver on occaision is not overly taxing either.
I am not a big city guy & although I have many friends in Moscow & work there mostly & enjoy visiting there I could never live there. It is a rat race I would prefer not to be a part of if at all possible. I'm a country boy & eventually hope to not have to work & then I will leave Tver as well for a small outlying vilage where I can enjoy the peace & quiet & freash air.

[Phil dAmore]

Rat:

I'm in St. Petersburg and even after living in Russia over 5 years  I have never been to Moscow!  Why?  I don't know.  Everyone tells me the same thing: It's big, dirty, noisy and expensive. Up here in the second city we like to think we are a bit more cultured than those barbarians in Moscow.

That's your first lesson about life in Russia.  Everything you see is an illusion. All the prosperity, all the high fashion, everything is a facade... just like Potemkin's village. Nothing is real, or at least not real as you know it.  Don't believe me?  Then explain why a city that has more billionaires than any other city in the world (Moscow) still can't figure a way to get hot water to it's people 12 months out of the year?

I've had every type of visa Russia issues except a diplomatic visa. Without a doubt the business visa is the way to go.  Now legally, one isn't supposed to live in Russia indefinitely on a business visa but as mentioned above, there is a world of difference between the way things are supposed to be and the way things really are.

A working visa is nothing more than an invitation from a specific company. In many ways it is similar to a student visa. Like Richard said though, they almost always require an exit visa should you need to leave the country and while the issuer of the visa (your employer) should provide assistance for this they don't always.  The hook on a work visa is they are cheaper to get but remember: you visa is valid only as long as your sponser (employer) needs you. As both Richard and I have found out, it is SOP for a Russian company to stiff you for any wages owed.  What can you do about it?  Not a damn thing.  That's why they do it.

My credential for teaching consists of an ITEFL certificate and it's not worth the paper it's printed on.  The school I got mine through was de-certified by the parent company (Benedict Schools, Intl.) and ordered to stop using the Benedict name.  Of course they haven't done this because... well because this is Russia.  Why were they de-certified?  For procedural and financial irregularities as well as treating their teachers like crap.  What a surprise.

By the way,  a good expression to learn is ето россий 'This is Russia'.  It's the expression Russians use when asked to explain why absolutely nothing works like it should. None of them will try and change it, they just sigh and keep on keeping on.  It is at once frustrating (because this country has such great potential, if they would only get their heads out of their collective @sses) and also reassuring (because historically, Russians can handle anything that life throws at them with a simple shrug and go on about their lives)

As to how I ended up here, that's a very long story best told over a bottle or two of vodka and assorted snacks.  Maybe we can all meet in Tver (it's a great little city) and compare notes while sitting on a park bench and checking out the local scenery.

I've said this about a hundred times before but it's worth repeating:  Living here isn't easy for anyone, and it's doubly difficult for a foreigner.  Once they accept you Russians can be very friendly but  until then time you will be suspect.  On the street  I've seen things that would make your hair fall out.  Respect for other humans is not something Russians have a lot of.  Know this:  To a Russian, there is no tomorrow.  There is only now.  That's why in any business dealing they will attempt to extract as much money from you as possible.  They believe that they will never see you again.

But if you can roll with the punches and maintain a sense of humor, if you learn enough Russian to get by (you'd be amazed on how far да, нет, and ни знаию (yes, no, I don't know) will get you.)... if you can do that, then you will do just fine here.

If not, I hear Estonia is nice.



 

[ScottinCrimea]

Have you considered Ukraine as an option?  In many ways, such as the need for registration, things are simpler there.  I was one who moved to Ukraine and married my Ukrainian wife.  It was a simple matter of deciding where we could have a better, less complicated life.  My visa was a 5 year multiple entry business visa.  I simply contacted a travel agency that I had worked with before, and they set me up with a company in Kharkov who provided the letter of invitation for $75.  As long as I leave the country every 6 months, even for just an hour, I don't need to register.

I started teaching English because the lingustics school that I used to have documents translated asked me if I would be interested.  I had no credentials for teaching other than that I was a native speaker.  The regular teachers taught grammar and I taught the vocabulary portion to groups ranging from 10 year olds to adults.  I also ran the English language club on Saturdays.  Because I already lived there, I didn't need to worry about a housing stipend or even the level of pay.  I took whatever they offered because I wasn't doing it for the money, only because I enjoyed it.  I agree, the teenagers can be a pain, but the younger kids and the adults were a delight.  Toward the end I was working for two institutes, both in a classroom setting and one on one with specific clients.  I suppose at that point I could have easily branched out and had my own tutoring business, because at that point I had established a good reputation, but I was comfortable with what I was doing.  I was even at the point where I was the keynote speaker at a national conference of English language students and conducted seminars at their annual meeting. I was also approached about providing editing of medical and technical texts that were being translated into English, but unfortunately that was about the time that I was returning to the US for awhile.

If you are serious about moving permanently to the FSU, I can certainly give you some insights about Ukraine, but if you are set on russia then others here can probably be of more help.

[Rattlehead]

Gentlemen, things have been extremely hectic here, but I've read your replies, and I will be replying ASAP.  I just haven't had the time to properly reply to your messages.  This discussion is very interesting and educational for me, and I feel will benefit me greatly.  And that does sound like a great idea to get together and chat once I arrive over there.  I look forward to that very much.

--Rat

[Rattlehead]

Gentlemen, please accept my apologies for taking so long to reply!  I hope you don't mind me sort of resurrecting this old thread but I've been so busy that I haven't had the time to reply.  I still have a couple questions about the visa, some new ones I thought of too, so I kinda got sidetracked on other things, like selling crap that I need to get rid of before I move.


Anyway, back to our discussion:


Rvrwind,

Quote (Rattlehead):
[As far as accommodations, I've seen some that offer help with that as well, although I suspect I'd want to obtain my own, and take their advertised stipend if they actually offer it.  As far as spending the majority of my income on housing,]

(Rvrwind): Actually some do & if you are smart you will take it. Accomodation s not esy to find in a nice area & usually if they are offering it, it will be in a respectable nieghborhood & will save you mega bucks. If you don't you will not likely get higher pay in lue of so is best to accept it.

You're probably right.  But I thought I remembered seeing that some only offer some kind of dormitory style, or homestay style accommodations, which is not what I want.  I'll look into it more when I know what date I'll be traveling. 

Quote (Rattlehead):
[When you say, "What you put is not as important as how you put it," I suppose you're saying that my friend was right, and that they don't check?]

(Rvrwind): No they don't check, unless there is a problem or you do something stupid in Russia, then you can bet they will check. For the most part it is a mere formality & as long as you stay out of trouble it will never become an issue.

Well, here's my question with that:

1. a) Would it be better to say I'm self-employed, or working for whoever I put down as my employer?
b) If I say I'm working for someone else, should I say I currently work for them (as in I'll still be working for them while in Russia) or should I say my employment with them will end when I leave for Russia?
c) Should I have a story about why I need to be in Russia for my work (whether it be self-employed or employed with someone else)?

2. This is related to the previous question.  I've read that you need to make your stated "purpose of visit" consistent with the visa you are applying for.  If I am applying for a business visa will they tell me that I need a work visa if I tell them that I will be working as an English teacher?  Should I not tell them that?  What should I say?  Will they ask me what work I'll be doing or if I'll be employed with my "current" employer or have secured or seeking new employment?

3. Will they expect me to file income tax with them?  Will they expect it only if they know I'll be working as a teacher, or only if they think I'm doing work for a US based company, or either?  If I work off the books and don't file income tax will they question how I'm supporting myself?  For that matter, will they ask how I'll support myself over the coming year?

4. Will registering with the US Consulate cause them to expect me to file income tax for the US?  Will they ask any of the above questions?

5. If there is an unexpected question on an application or any other unexpected development, how much can I trust travel agencies?  I mean can I say something to them like, "Look, I'm not really employed here, I quit my job to learn to teach English and now I'm going to Russia to teach there?"

Sorry for all the technical questions, but I'm used to doing paperwork by the book, so this is new to me.  Thanks!

I hope everything works out with the situation in Canada.  My condolences if anything bad happened.

Do you know anyone who has been able to teach solely on a private basis?  That would be my ideal employment situation.

(Rvrwind): I have been her a little over 4 years & Phil was here about a year before me.

On the paperwork front, how have you two maintained your residency in Russia?  Have you just kept renewing visas or have you applied for a permanent resident card?

(Rvrwind): Not all women listed at agencies are there to just 'get out of Russia'. A lot of them would prefer to stay if their man would, but most men havn't got what it takes to make a go of it in Russia. It is not an easy place to live & everything you are used to in your country must be forgotten because this is Russia & its a whole different world over here.

Oh, I know, definitely.  I would never even consider meeting women from agencies if I thought that all of them were only looking to leave their country.  I've been using Cindy Agency a bit (Have you guys used agencies, and if so, which ones?), and as I'm sure you know, they are based entirely in Ukraine.  What does anyone know about the attitude of Ukrainian women about moving to Russia for marriage (to a western man no less! LOL!)?

I think we feel very much the same about cities.  I've decided I will go to St. Pete rather than Moscow.  I'm not a city guy, but of the two, I think St. Pete would suit me better.  After I get settled into my new culture, gain some degree of fluency in the language, and save some money, I fully intend to move to a smaller city or town, perhaps ultimately a rural area.  I will certainly visit Moscow, but like NYC, it's probably not for me as far as living there goes.



Phil,

I've definitively decided to go to St. Petersburg rather than Moscow, so maybe we can meet for lunch sometime!  :-)

I have an explanation for the thing about the billionaires and the hot water.  The answer is that the billionaires are all pieces of shit!  What do you expect from people who stole all of their wealth?! 

Above I posed some questions to Rvrwind about visas.  What would you say about those questions?  What have you done in regard to visas?  Do you still use visas or a permanent resident card?

(Phil): My credential for teaching consists of an ITEFL certificate and it's not worth the paper it's printed on.  The school I got mine through was de-certified by the parent company (Benedict Schools, Intl.) and ordered to stop using the Benedict name.  Of course they haven't done this because... well because this is Russia.  Why were they de-certified?  For procedural and financial irregularities as well as treating their teachers like crap.  What a surprise.

For once I feel that I'm in the position to give you guys advice.  You (and Rvrwind) should both get the Cambridge CELTA certificate (Certificate of English Language Teaching to Adults).  It is the preferred certificate in Russia, and most of Europe.  It's issued by Cambridge University in the UK.  I took the month-long intensive course, but they have a 3 month extensive course that is a bit more spread-out and easy to manage.  It was a tremendously demanding course, more physically demanding than anything.  I boarded in Brooklyn and commuted to Manhattan everyday (5 days a week) for a month.  The class was supposed to be 8 hours a day, but it was more like 9.  Add commuting time and all and it was 13 hours between waking up and getting back to Brooklyn.  Then there was the homework, which for someone who's never taught before took hours to plan each lesson.  Each day was at least 20 hours for me, and I pulled a bunch of all-nighters.  I didn't sleep for 36 hours at one point.  I missed many meals, especially breakfasts (rushing to get out on time) and lunches (so I could spend that time on my work).  I wouldn't advise anyone to take the 1 month course but the 3 month course would be well worth it.  They send all of your work to Cambridge, and they make the final decision on whether you pass and get the certificate or not.  I barely made it by the skin of my teeth through the course simply because I was so run-down on no sleep and no food, etc.  I really didn't think I could finish it at several points.  My trainers both thought that I met the requirements to pass and recommended that I pass, but the final decision is up to Cambridge and although they said it is highly unlikely that Cambridge would ignore their recommendation, that's still not an absolute, and that makes me uncomfortable about it.  The course ended June 29th, and apparently it takes 2 months for Cambridge to notify you whether you passed or not, so I'm still waiting to find out.  I know I would have gotten more out of the course if it wasn't so intense that it ran me down so badly.  But it seems to be the certificate to get.  I hope that this helps you.

I know what you mean about Russia's potential.  I feel that although Russia is worse off in many ways than so many countries in Europe, it's potential towers above theirs,  and I hope that it reaches it's potential.  And I've always admired the resilience of the Russian people as well.  Few peoples have had as much inflicted upon them as the Russian people yet survived, and in some ways flourished.

I would like to visit Tver too.  Aren't there supposed to be a lot of great girls in Tver? :-)

(Phil): 'I've said this about a hundred times before but it's worth repeating:  Living here isn't easy for anyone, and it's doubly difficult for a foreigner.  Once they accept you Russians can be very friendly but  until then time you will be suspect.  On the street  I've seen things that would make your hair fall out.  Respect for other humans is not something Russians have a lot of.  Know this:  To a Russian, there is no tomorrow.  There is only now.  That's why in any business dealing they will attempt to extract as much money from you as possible.  They believe that they will never see you again.

But if you can roll with the punches and maintain a sense of humor, if you learn enough Russian to get by (you'd be amazed on how far да, нет, and ни знаию (yes, no, I don't know) will get you.)... if you can do that, then you will do just fine here.

I've heard this many times.  But I respect healthy skepticism much more than naivety.  So far I seem to get along with Russians and I hope that continues! :-D  It'll be hard at first, but I'm confident I'll make some good Russian friends and things will get a bit easier.  And I've been learning Russian, so I hope I'll make big strides in the language as well after I get there.  How much Russian did you know before you moved there?  Would you say you are fluent now?  If so, how long did that take you?  What about you Rvrwind?


Scott,

I've been thinking more about Ukraine recently, but for the moment I will go to St. Pete.  I guess I've been sort of taken by "Mother Russia" and it's great history, not to take anything away from Ukraine.  Of course Russia's economy is picking up and, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that it's better than that in Ukraine right now.  I also don't like the way Ukraine is cozying up to the EU either, but I don't want to get into politics.

Are you still in Ukraine?  Can you offer any advice about obtaining clients for private tutoring?  At the moment I will be going to St. Pete, but I will definitely be stopping in Ukraine on my way there, so any insights about Ukraine would definitely be appreciated.  Did you meet your wife through an agency (if so, which one)?  I would be interested in knowing more about Ukraine as my knowledge of Ukraine is considerably less than that of Russia. 

Thank you all for your patience with my long delay in continuing the thread, for all you've helped with so far, and for any further help you can give.

--Rat

[Rattlehead]

One more question! LOL!!  :-D 

I will stop in Ukraine for a week or two on my way to Russia.  How will this effect my Russian visa process?  I know Ukraine doesn't require any visa for US citizens anymore, but is there anything that I have to do paperwork wise for Ukraine?

Thanks again!

--Rat

[Kuna]

Rattlehead...

If it's not too personal (and you don't mind going off-topic" for a moment) I'm interested in why you won't return to the USA.

My Girl and I have talked about living in Ukraine and it's not at all out of the question. Initially it makes more sense for us to live in Oz but I imagine we'll live in Ukraine at some point in the future.

Kuna

[Phil dAmore]

Rat:

An interesting take on the hot water issue.  Among the moneyed in Petersburg (and also in Moscow, I presume) there is a definite attitude of 'elitism'.  Put more bluntly, those with the cash seem to think that their sh!t doesn't stink and that they are somehow superior humans by virtue of having achieved financial success... by whatever means.

On to your questions:

1. a) Would it be better to say I'm self-employed, or working for whoever I put down as my employer?
b) If I say I'm working for someone else, should I say I currently work for them (as in I'll still be working for them while in Russia) or should I say my employment with them will end when I leave for Russia?
c) Should I have a story about why I need to be in Russia for my work (whether it be self-employed or employed with someone else)?

a) I always say that I'm self-employed, but then they can see that my passport is full of old Russian visas. If this is your first trip, you might be better off putting down your current employer.

b) Don't give them any more information than needed. Odds are they aren't going to check it anyway.  What is more important is that you do not leave any blank spaces on the visa application.  They don't like blank spaces.

c) On the visa form under 'purpose of visit' is a box labeled 'business'  Check it.  Don't volunteer anything!! They already ask enough questions like what your ex-wifes maiden name and date of birth are (or at least they do in Seattle).

2. This is related to the previous question.  I've read that you need to make your stated "purpose of visit" consistent with the visa you are applying for.  If I am applying for a business visa will they tell me that I need a work visa if I tell them that I will be working as an English teacher?  Should I not tell them that?  What should I say?  Will they ask me what work I'll be doing or if I'll be employed with my "current" employer or have secured or seeking new employment?

See the answer above about Not volunteering anything!!!

3. Will they expect me to file income tax with them?  Will they expect it only if they know I'll be working as a teacher, or only if they think I'm doing work for a US based company, or either?  If I work off the books and don't file income tax will they question how I'm supporting myself?  For that matter, will they ask how I'll support myself over the coming year?

Taxes?    They aren't going to ask, not in the consulate department anyway.  On the visa application is a question about who will pay for your trip to and stay in Russia.  Put "Self".  It's always worked for me.

Now, legally the schools are supposed to take taxes out of your pay at a rate of 30% for the first 90 days.  If you are still in the country and working after that then your taxes are reduced to the 'local' rate of 13% and you are supposed to receive a refund of the extra 17% that you had paid during the first 90 days. (30 - 17 = 13). 

In practice this is too difficult for the schools so they just pay you in cash from day one.  It's nice, but as both Richard and I have found out, it leaves you absolutely NO recourse if and when they decide to give you the boot.  A double-edged sword,as they say...

FWIW I think Russia has a pretty simple tax system.  13% flat tax on personal income and an 18% VAT on anything you buy.  I'm sure Richard can give you more info on the tax structure for businesses.

4. Will registering with the US Consulate cause them to expect me to file income tax for the US?  Will they ask any of the above questions?

I've always been under the impression that the  IRS wants you to pay taxes whether you are registered with the local consulate or not.  If you are registered, it just makes it that much easier for them to find you.  I have never registered and have only been down to the US Consulate twice in 5 years.  Both times it was not a pleasant experience.

If this is a major concern for you I suggest you consult with a tax attorney.  What has worked for me may not work for you.  All I will say is this:  If I ever decide to move back to the US, I'm reasonably sure the boys and girls at the IRS would like to have a word with me...

5. If there is an unexpected question on an application or any other unexpected development, how much can I trust travel agencies?  I mean can I say something to them like, "Look, I'm not really employed here, I quit my job to learn to teach English and now I'm going to Russia to teach there?"

I fail to see how a travel agency is going to care what you may or may not be doing in Russia.  Their only concern is selling you a trip. As long as you are using a reputable travel agency and not some guy working out of his apartment booking plane fares through Expedia or Travelocity you should be fine.

One last thing about Russian Consulates:  Each one is permitted to make up their own rules and requirements.  You mentioned you live in NYC so I assume you will be using the consulate there. If for some reason they give you problems, consider using another consulate.  Like pretty much everything in Russia, the consulates are not connected to each other very well.  When I'm in the US (as I am now) I get my visas through Seattle even though I am 'supposed' to use San Francisco.  They don't care.  Seattle is more than happy to take my money.

Now one last time: Give them the information that they ask for and NO MORE.



Teaching certificates:

Yes you are correct, I should get the CELTA. But I haven't needed it thus far and just between you, me and the other members of the board, I'm not really a teacher! :hairraising:  In fact the only reason I do it is because there is absolutely no other way of supporting myself here.  As a non-citizen I have no rights whatsoever regarding employment (or anything else).  On top of that, my advanced age (47) makes me virtually unhireable here. 

Language:

I knew just enough Russian to get into trouble when I arrived.  Everyone says it's a tough language to learn but I think it depends more on your individual learning style and more importantly,your personal commitment to learning.  One thing you will find:  Pretty much everywhere you go, people will want you to speak English to them.  If you  hook up with an English-speaking woman it will take significantly longer for you to learn Russian. 

After over 5 years in-country I should be fluent but sadly I am not.  But that's just me.  I know people that picked it up in 6 months.  Generally speaking, if you live here and have to deal with it on a day to day basis your hand is forced and your language skills will develop faster. 

Some schools will offer Russian lessons to their teachers.  If you have this option, take it.  But be aware that very often they will expect you to absorb the material without asking too many questions.  Again, depending on your learning style this may or may not be a good option for you.  It wasn't for me, but then I have a learning style that is best described as 'chaotic'  Remind me to tell you the story of how I drove my first Russian teacher into early retirement when we meet.

When are your planning on being in St. Petersburg?  I will be in the U.S. until 29 September.

[Rvrwind]

I pretty much concur with what Phil has posted & wholeheartedly agree with if they don't ask, don't tell & if they do KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Russian bureaucracy just loves to maker mountains out of mole hills.
Neither I nor Phil has our residence cards. They are very difficult to obtain. The biggest holdup for me is that you must own property in Russia, yourself or your wife. The biggest holdback for Phil is he & Nina are not legally married but living together. Both of these requirements are the top two to residency.
For the first four years I was here my employer handled my visa renewals & I didn't have to leave the country. Now I have no employer at present & have to leave & reapply every year. 1 year business visa.

I would like to visit Tver too.  Aren't there supposed to be a lot of great girls in Tver? :-)

TFF Yeah I'd say so, read my tag line...I own the place! 

[Rattlehead]

Kuna,

I hope you don't mind, but I'd rather not get into the reasons I won't return to the US on the board.  I wouldn't mind talking to you about your girl's thoughts about moving out of Ukraine to Oz and possibly moving back to Ukraine.  That might provide me some insight into the Ukrainian woman's psyche!  LOL!  :-D  Also, I have to ask... Your username... Did you get that from the Russian slang word for a certain southern part of the female anatomy?  If so, I got a chuckle.  :-)


Phil,

Oh, you'll find I have an interesting take on every issue.  And I find that intelligent, open-minded people usually give me credit for being on to something (at the very least) even if they have to think about it and process it for a while.

I talked to an online travel agency (I won't put the name on a public forum as they're not supposed to say this), and they told me to just say I'm self-employed.  I guess that's what I'll do.  My question to you guys would be what is a good response when the immigration or customs authorities (or police) ask you what your business in Russia is?  Also, do the private language schools have any compunction about employing you when you're there on a business visa?

Yeah, I don't want to volunteer any more info than I have to but I just wanted to ask you guys about what info they expect you to give them.

Yeah, about the taxes, I didn't think the consulate, immigration, or customs would ask me about that, but I wondered if once they know you're there if their equivalent of the IRS would contact you about that.

So, you're saying that the language schools pay you in cash, but does their "IRS" ask you to pay taxes?  Or do they only ask you this if the school terminates your employment?

Yeah I know that they expect you to pay taxes regardless, but I was just wondering if registering would give them the heads up that you're there in Russia and then they'd ask you for taxes, or if the State Dept. just doesn't communicate that closely with the IRS and they'd never ask.  Just like you said, I figured registering might make it that much easier to find me and ask for taxes.

Yes, I'm using a reputable travel agency, I believe.  I don't want to mention the name publicly as I've talked about what they've told me to do here.

I didn't realize there was a Russian consulate in Seattle, I only knew of the one in San Fran on the west coast.  I live in a suburb of NYC, not NYC itself (thanfully).

Yes, get the CELTA, it is the preferred certificate in Russia and most of Europe and seems to be the most standardized one being that it's issued by Cambridge.  Yes, that's the reason I chose this profession too.  I think I'll probably enjoy it too though as I'm fond of language and it's usage as a general subject.  As someone who has only begun to learn Russian (in Sept. of last year), the only jobs I could think of that I could work at in Russia are the English teaching, as a tour guide for English-speaking tourists, or working for an English-language publication.  I'll look into the other two as well as the teaching.  The CELTA certificate would probably also look good on a resume for writing for a publication as well being that it deals with English language useage. 

I'd definitely be interested in hearing the early retirement story!  LOL!!  :-D  I plan to take Russian lessons whether I get them at a school I work for, or if I do private lessons exclusively just pay for lessons myself.  That's also an interesting observation about getting an English-speaking girl versus one who doesn't really speak English. 

I still don't have an exact date of travel, and won't until I sort this visa situation out.  But I think I've gotten it straight now and I just need to get the required HIV test and send them the paperwork.  The travel agency offers 20 day processing and 26 day processing.  The 20 day processing is $200 more.  Doesn't seem worth it.  But then the lady at the agency tells me that they recommend that you wait until they notify you that they've gotten your visa support letter to book your flight at which time you're basically guaranteed to be issued the visa.  And she tells me that this will take three weeks with the 26 day processing but only 1.5 weeks with the 20 day.  That could make a significant difference in my flight prices.   Although it may be a wash considering the $200 increase in the processing fee.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?  I'm shooting for an early to mid-October departure date.


Rvrwind,

I see what you're saying about the residence card.  But isn't it difficult for a foreigner to buy property in Russia?  What if I end up with a Ukrainian girl, then if we lived in Russia we'd both be foreigners?  Or would she have special considerations being a citizen of a CIS country? 

As far as that leave and re-applying process for getting a new business visa, can you start the application process while still in Russia?  How long do you have to leave for?  How does that work?

LOL!  :-)  When you go to the reply screen and it shows the topic summay, it omits signature lines so, as I was referring to your reply, I forgot that you were the owner of Tver Angels!  That's funny.  I saw the photos of Tver on your site and it looks like such a quaint and pretty city.  I can't wait to visit it.  It looks like the type of place I'd probaly prefer to move to from St. Pete after adjusting to life in Russia.  Do you facilitate English lessons for the girls in your agency when men want to pay for them?  I was thinking of that as a source of pupils for private lessons.  I would, of course respect the fact that the girls are in correspondence with other men and keep everything professional.


Thank you all again for your feedback.

--Rat

[Phil dAmore]

Rat:

Always glad to help.

My question to you guys would be what is a good response when the immigration or customs authorities (or police) ask you what your business in Russia is? 

In over 5 years of living and working here I have never been asked this question.  If someone did ask, I would simply reply: My business is бизнес.

Also, do the private language schools have any compunction about employing you when you're there on a business visa?

In my experience the schools are more than happy to employ you with a business visa because that means less work for them.  If you are a good negotiator you may even be able to use this as a means to a higher starting salary.

Back on the taxes thing, the closest I have ever come to dealing with the Russian tax department is when I pay my annual 'owners tax' on my apartment; A whopping 280 rubles per year.

They can't collect income taxes because that would require a work visa (and subsequent permit) Since you don't have a work visa you can't be working, ergo there is nothing to collect.  When the school terminates you, the tax department does nothing, because they never knew that you were there in the first place.  See how it works?

Regarding U.S. taxes, I will add this:  If you are absolutely, positively certain that you will never return to the U.S. to live, then you can probably never file another 1040 and not have anything bad happen. 

If you should return someday, it would be a very smart move on your part for you to contact them rather than wait for them to contact you.  If you have been 'off the grid' for several years and suddenly pop back up on their radar via a W-2 or other employer-or-bank submitted document, trust me when I tell you that you will be receiving a letter from the IRS.  Maybe not this year, maybe not for 5 years.  But it will come.  When it does, things will be a lot worse for you than if you had just given them a call when you got back in the states.*

*   I  suggest that you contact a tax attorney if this is a major issue for you.

Russian Consulate in Seattle Washington:

2323 Westin Building
2001 6th. Ave.
Seattle, WA. 98121

http://www.netconsul.org/

Through them my visa costs $100 and it arrives in about 2 weeks.  Of course I do procure my own invitations and HIV test certificates in Russia, so that makes for considerable savings.

Looking forward to seeing you when I get back in-country.

[Rvrwind]

I see what you're saying about the residence card.  But isn't it difficult for a foreigner to buy property in Russia?

Its a pain in the ass actually but not any less than a pain in the ass for Russia citizens either, LOL.

What if I end up with a Ukrainian girl, then if we lived in Russia we'd both be foreigners?  Or would she have special considerations being a citizen of a CIS country?

That would depend on if she has retained her Russian Citizenship. But it is much easier for her than you.

As far as that leave and re-applying process for getting a new business visa, can you start the application process while still in Russia?  How long do you have to leave for?  How does that work?

Very easy actually but a bit tough to explain here. Phil & I have worked out a system, which if all goes right you are only out of the country for about 24 hours. Everything is done through Helsinki, Finland. It entails Bus & Train rides & a trip to the Russian Emabassy in Helsinki, which if done right & all your ducks are in a row, you can leave Sunday night & be back Monday late afternoon, early evening.

I saw the photos of Tver on your site and it looks like such a quaint and pretty city.

Thanks. We are currently working on a full length video, about 2 hours, that will have scenes of Tver, our company & a lot of our ladies so guys can hear their sexy accents as well as see them. I like Tver myself. Much cheaper than living here than Moscow or SPB but big enough to have everything you need.

Do you facilitate English lessons for the girls in your agency when men want to pay for them?

Yes we do. We currently have several enrolled at their own expense as well as a couple who their men are paying for.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

Your Welcome.