Views on freindship

[Lit_1nce]

This post is kind of two related topics in one juicy can of worms, so let me break out the can opener...

First, my situation as to "friends"...  Sure I have some people that I am "friendly" with in my life, that I could probably borrow a few dollars off, or get them to help me to move.. but real  friends that I have.. you can count on one hand even with a few fingers missing. I guess maybe I am too picky with who I call a friend.. but it works for me.

Now we get to the FSU women part... The last FSU woman that I dated, had in her profile that she wanted to meet someone with many friends..  and I have read this same thing in other profiles. I have also read about the tight social network of friends that FSU women have. I guess my first question is, does someone with few friends appear "odd" to FSU women ?

My next question is life related, and does not specificly  apply to FSU vs anybody else, but is a man - woman thing.. and really is more of a curiosity to see others views.. as opposed to asking you to change mine. I'll start by saying that the person you are having a relationship with should be not only be your friend but your best friend..

But to further it along.. the question is.. Can men and women "not" in a relationship be just friends ?

Before you blindly answer "yeah sure".. let me say, I agree that it's "possible".. but men being the chaos factor in such a thing, I believe the real answer is "probably not". This is of course not an absolute.. but I have seen it so many times over and over, that I think it is very rare that a man is maintaining a friendship with a woman without at least some hidden agenda.

Now I am sure there are going to be many replies telling me all about their friendships with the opposite sex, and I have had them too.. but my answer of "probably not" has become my view over the years. I also find that women are more likely to blindly believe a man that wants to be "only their friend".... As a guy, I am skeptical when someone tells that to a woman I know.

I hope the second question doesn't overpower the first, as I would like views on both subjects.

[MaxxumUSA]

Now we get to the FSU women part... The last FSU woman that I dated, had in her profile that she wanted to meet someone with many friends..  and I have read this same thing in other profiles. I have also read about the tight social network of friends that FSU women have. I guess my first question is, does someone with few friends appear "odd" to FSU women ?

My Elena has about 6 or 7 girlfriends that I know of.  She spends time with them, visits their home, has them to her home.  They do each other's hair coloring, nails, etc.  They also get together for dinners to restaurants.  I'd say 3 nights a week she has one on one dinners with her friends.

I think having friends is important to her.  I certainly see her creating a group of girlfriends once she arrives here in the USA.

For you - I think you should explain your situation to the women you write to - and see if they are accepting of your ideas.  Ask them directly.

My next question is life related, and does not specificly  apply to FSU vs anybody else, but is a man - woman thing.. and really is more of a curiosity to see others views.. as opposed to asking you to change mine. I'll start by saying that the person you are having a relationship with should be not only be your friend but your best friend..

Yes - Elena tells me regularly that I am her best friend.  I think this is important - I never had this with any women in my past.  It's a great feeling to know it is possible.

But to further it along.. the question is.. Can men and women "not" in a relationship be just friends ?

Short answer:  Nope.  Not in my opinion and experience.  One or the other or both cross the line eventually - or at a minimum think about crossing the line.

This was brought up in another thread a while ago.

I have some women friends.  If we were both single and available and willing, the line would be crossed in a heartbeat.

[DKMM]

Yeah FSU girls have lots of friends its true.  My experience is the same as Maxxum's.  They make a big deal out of birthdays of even friends of friends.  E spends the night at her best friends home maybe once a week.

And yes, your woman will be concerned about making friends here so I think that's the source of that conversation.

I have always had good friendships with women.  I dunno why, but a lot of guys seem to be unable to relate to women on a friendship level.  I had some female cousins as friends growing up so that might be why its easy for me.  It usually starts when i'm in a relationship so for me i take a platonic view towards other women.  Also, they tend to be unattractive so that probably factors into it. 

The interesting thing in my case is that my female friends are all quite thrilled I found a Russian to marry.  I haven't heard the slightest hint of jealousy from them even the single ones.

[wxman]

I think most men can count on one hand the "true" friends that he has. Sure we have other friends that we will "hang" with from time to time, but lifelong friends are not many. It's just the nature of the male beast. Too many male friends are "competition" to us. Times have not changed. Just look at your fathers. How many close friends did they have? Probably not many after they got married. Sure, they had friends they played golf with, went fishing with, etc, but friends they could rely on in a moments notice? Not many. It's not unusual at all for women to have many more friends then men.

[Mir]

wxman

I beg to differ. IMHO it is much more likely for men to form lifelong friendships then for women. Yes for each man there will be very few such friends (2-4) but for women such friendships are even less frequent.
Still in this subject we are all influenced by our personal experiences.

Can a man and a woman be just friends: No

[I/O]

but real  friends that I have.. you can count on one hand even with a few fingers missing. I guess maybe I am too picky with who I call a friend.. but it works for me

I can relate to this.  Works for me also. I have learned the hard way that real friends are few and far between.

Can men and women "not" in a relationship be just friends ?

Let me answer this way.  Leave a man and a woman who are not in a relationship alone together for long enough and watch what happens over time. I am and have never been a believer in so called plutonic friendships.  Sure it can remain that way for a time, but in the long term......................it most often drifts further or ends.

I/O

[CaptB]

Can men and women be just friends.....of course. This is'nt a matter of opinion I think......but more of personal experience. I like women.....I have always had alot of female friends. Did I ever cross the line? Yes. If your goal is to have a partner as a friend.....its only natual that some friendships with women.....may progress beyond friendship. Some are affraid to ruin the friendship by taking a chance on turning it in to a relationship. I don't think taking a chance is the problem. The problem is ending the relationship without ruining the friendship...if things don't work out. Usually the problem is.....one person is more attached....than the other. If you can learn that chemistry is a two-way street.....and the intensity must be equal.....you may be able to accept friendship as a result......if both are willing. Some folks just seem to remain un- easy around someone who is an "ex" in a relationship. I have been lucky. I have remained friends with many of the women I have dated.....even helping some find a partner. And yes.....some I was even intimate with....and we have remained friends. Maybe growing-up with four sisters allowed me to form friendships with woman with little effort. Growing-up with four sisters also let me learn.........hell is a real place


Capt B

[Jet]

Yep, if you can get past the sexual relationship early, you can go on to be friends 
Actually, we've become very close with the secretary that works for my company. She is single and not at all bad looking. Interestingly she looks at Liliya as an inspiration even though she is 18 years this woman's junior. 

Like some others have commented I have exactly 1 friend that would be considered such by FSU standards, we've been friends since 5th grade. But I can be a bit of an odd duck in this regard as I've had some very strong friendships over the years that just evaporate without a trace after one or the other of us moves/situation changes. Kind of an "out of sight, out of mind" thing. Unusual because the friends I have chosen through the years are the exact same way in this regard.

I would speculate that what they are looking for when asking about "friends" is a safety net that can be relied upon should difficulties arise and/or a network of acquaintances to ease the initial isolation they believe they'll face, as these are two very big things they'll be giving up once they choose to move abroad.

[SANDRO43]

Can men and women "not" in a relationship be just friends ?

Most of my current friends are women, over the years I've found them to be more interesting and less predictable than their male counterparts. Some have even pleasantly surprised me years ago, by offering unsolicited financial and otherwise help (thankfully declined) when I went through the difficult experience of my mother's terminal illness.

But the important point is that I feel no "other-than-friendly" attraction for these women .

[Wayne B]

I can say that I have 2 very close friends...we all went to school together....and still live in the same town...If one of us were to move away...I could expect to see the close friendship drift away.     Can a woman and a man have a close friendship....yes, if both are 'Gay'        

[TigerPaws]

Can a woman and a man have a close friendship....yes, if both are 'Gay'

Agreed!

Maybe some men can have a woman as a friend but I have never experienced it or been around it so I am the wrong one to ask about such things.

TigerPaws

[MaxxumUSA]

I have had a few women friends and in the end - one of us wanted more.  One time the both of us mutually wanted more - and we gave it a try.

None of these friendships remained with both people wanting to be platonic.

[IAmZon]

I think everything is possible ...

1, plutonic friendly relationship between the sexes
2, un-plutonic  friendly relationship between the sexes
3, an overly dependent marriage
4, an overly independent marriage

and very little lasts that is truly good for us:) I am not being pessimistic, just trying to live in truth with eyes wide open.

Even the best marriage is the lesser of several evils - and most marriages are not the best.  I think most who are seeking marriage (or a fresh start), see that as an end in itself, which it is certainly not. 

When the Gods wish to punish us ... they answer our prayers.

[Phil dAmore]

Men and women can't be 'just friends' because the sex thing always gets in the way. 

- Billy Crystal to Meg Ryan in When Harry Met Sally


Men don't have women friends.  They just know women they haven't f*cked yet!

-Eddie Murphy in Raw

[SANDRO43]

1, plutonic friendly relationship between the sexes
2, un-plutonic  friendly relationship between the sexes

Considering the qualities usually attributed to the planet Pluto:

Pluto is also associated with extreme power and corruption...In medicine Pluto seems to be associated with regenerative forces in the body involving cell formation and the reproductive system

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planets_in_astrology#Pluto)
I'd be interested in your definition of a "plutonic friendly relationship" .

[wxman]

Considering the qualities usually attrributed to the planet Plutohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planets_in_astrology#Pluto)
I'd be interested in your definition of a "plutonic friendly relationship" .

We all know men are from Mars. I think at least once in our life we have met an ice cold woman from Pluto instead of the normal ones from Venus. 

[Jazzyclassy]

It is not odd at all to have few friends , that is normal .

I do not have many friends , I have only 3 very close friends, that's it , the others are numerous aqcuaintants nothing more, it is absolutely not true when people are claiming that they got 10 best friends, it is simply impossible, cos friendship it is something which you can not gain just at once, it is also a work  it is like relationship.
Friendship it is a great thing and people need to cherish it, though sometimes you can think of this relations for example as a real true one, and when some situation comes you understand that there was never any friendship there, just as for me better to have 1 friend but the best true one, than to have many and they  would all be friends wanting something from you , with some purpose , I mean wanting not your company and your opinion as a friend but some material things , some connections or something, it is never a friendship and never would be according to my moral values, ideal friendship should be unselfish.

Friends should want to communicate with you always when they are sad and when they are happy,  cos sometimes some people communicate with you only when they are in trouble , but when everything is great with them they forget about you , so I do not consider such people friends , I just see them as pals

thouse Russian women who tell you that they got so many friends and bla bla bla , obviously do not understand what real friendship means, cos it is really impossible to have so many friends and to give them all attention and to please them all  , it is just they are friends till everything is going great, when she will be in trouble they will quickly turn their backs to her. That is  already proven - by life

[Lit_1nce]

All very good posts !

I apologize if I had repeated something covered in another thread about men and women being "just friends". Been reading a lot of topics on RWD, and hadn't seen that one.. but it's big board.

I appreciate the comments about the number of friends that you personally have.  I know that I don't consider myself "odd", and that was probably not the best way to phrase the question.

Jazzy's post on what is a friend and what is an acquaintance is "spot on" (watching too much Hells Kitchen). I do have many acquaintances as well.

wxman's post on golf buddies also hits home with me. I have a group of guys that I golf with.. now we all get together and have a good time golfing, then get in our cars and live separate lives. Are we we friendly and offer each  other advice ? .. sure.. but are we friends ? .. I think that would be stretching it..  And also relevant is that my dad was the same way.

I suppose, as with anything, it is not good to generalize anything about expectations that a FSU woman might have. I realize that everyone is an individual, and will have individual expectations.. but I do enjoy your stories, experiences, and thoughts a great deal.

[Serebro]

I have 2 close friends(one of them is a male) and many acquaintances with whom I have very good relationships.
I don't think that adult russian women have many friends, maybe 1-3, sometimes they don't have close friends at all. When a woman gets married she often forgets about her friends: her family and her husband(or/and her lovers)come first.Very often they call to their friends to complain about something in their life or when they look for different types of help.But as for themselves they are not always ready to GIVE this help or attention when someone needs it.A friend in need is a friend indeed.
I think that when a woman wants a man with many friends she just wants to be sure that her future partner is a very sociable and friendly man with good temper.But if I were a man I wouldn't look for a woman who has many  friends, belive me.
I agree with Jazzy

thouse Russian women who tell you that they got so many friends and bla bla bla , obviously do not understand what real friendship means,

And I have also noticed that the definition of friendship is different and I know an american who called one person "a friend" just because they had met twice and had a very pleasant conversation for 20 minutes' time ( both of them didn't speak each other languages)

[Daveman]

Definitely interesting views expressed here...

As far as real friends go... I have one.  I have a childhood friend I've known since the age of two.. we grew up as brothers really, and he's been more of a brother/family to me than any of my three real brothers. 

I'm really quite a loner type.  I can spend weeks in the mountains fishing, camping, etc, right by myself and be perfectly content with nature.  I have many hang out buddies, male and female, but only one real friend.  I guess just don't trust people easily.  Definitely not antisocial, but for certain, my future partner must also be the role of "best friend" without a doubt.  She and I inside our sacred circle to conquer the world together as a team.  When I'm in a relationship, the lady is inside my inner world so to speak and I'm perfectly content spending the vast majority of my time one on one with her...

That's my info and take on it anyway...

[Jazzyclassy]

The thing is many people even being an adult still do not understand friendship  till its depth.
The second thing is the society's crazy factor if you say that you have like no real friends only some pals and buddies , you will be considered  a loser or I do not know  who and people just in order not to sound like a miserable creatures according to crazy society , try and name as much friends as they possibly can , when as the matter of fact  deep in their hearts they truly know who is who and whom they can call a friend and whom not.

I think many just show off

[Lily]

I have also read about the tight social network of friends that FSU women have. I guess my first question is, does someone with few friends appear "odd" to FSU women ?
 

Well, in general terms, Russia is a collectivist society whereas the Western world is an individualistic one. Therefore, for a Russian having friends and being well-connected is a life necessity. With friends one could go a lot farther than if relying just on themselves.

[Lily]

Can men and women "not" in a relationship be just friends ?
 

Sure they can. It happened to me quite often in my life.

IMHO this situation would be possible if the overall personality of a person outweights his or her sexual attraction. In other words, that would happen if one can enrich himself more from her drive, skills, talents, hobbies than from her sexuality.

At the same time, platonic friendship often arise if people are somehow not adept at a gender-specific communication. They life their life as if there is no sex at all, except in movies and books  Such people often have problems finding a partner.

[Rvrwind]

Can men and women "not" in a relationship be just friends ?

Why not?
I have always had more female friends than male friends even as a young feller & they are just friends.
I find women to be much better listeners than men & when one becomes your friend she is your friend & nothing more. I can count the number of real male friends on the fingers of one hand but I havn't got enough fingers & toes to count the number of real female friends I have.

[Lit_1nce]

Here is a strange coincidence for you...

I just received an email from someone who I consider one of those few fingers that I count.

Now we haven't actually seen each other in person for about 23 odd years, We live on opposite sides of the US, but even after all that time, and the distance, great friends...

He's my old roomate and Army buddy from when I was stationed in  Wildflecken Germany, as a young pup of 18 (god that was a long time ago). He got out first, and I re-enlisted for an additional 2 years. We stayed in contact, and I saw him again after I got out of the Army, before I headed home. He's the only person from my military service that I kept in contact with.

Him and his daughter are on a road trip across the US, and he decided to alter his trip a little and stop over here and visit. Probably be here Wednesday or Thursday.. gonna be interesting for two friends from their prime 20's to meet again as we are both nearing the century mark. (I'm 47, but I don't feel like I'm getting old, except during the winter when I need some advil now and then..)

I honestly had no idea that when I started this thread, that the universe would say .. "you want to talk about friends ? .. here you go.."