What is 'rich' by Western standards?

[Lily]

When scrolling through the RWG threads, I discovered a posting made by MaxxumUSA. He suggested asking a RW prospect what she considers as being rich.
Quote:

"What do you consider rich? 

BTW - she considers a family "Rich" if they can afford a nice flat, serviceable vehicles that are fairly new and not breaking down, and able to go on holiday 2+ times a year."

I realize that in different social groups this may differ a lot, but I'd stil be curious what would a middle-class educated (say, a Master's level) American person consider to be rich by their standards? What standard of life is deemed to be the usual norm? What expenses would belong to that?

Thanks everyone!

[BC]

Rich begins when you can go to any restaurant and don't bother looking at menu, much less the prices.

[Lily]

Thanks BC for a good answer  ,

I am now a bit late to rephrase my question got the answer from Wikipedia. Great source for curious people indeed 

Income vs Lifestyle...

How is a person perceived by his or her class fellows if he strives to maintain the same lifestyle by spending less money? I mean, if he wants to be member of same clubs, travelling to same expensive destinations, consuming the high quality things but by paying less than the other people have to pay for it?

There are people who prefer to spend their money in a smart way, by soliciting service packages of same quality but for less, by making market investigations and trying to get most of it but for less. Would that behaviour be valued in the West or rather condemned for being 'cheap'?

As far as I can observe on Russian middle class people, they seem to perceive that big spendings as such is good..if you count your money, you are cheap, if you say 'it is expensive', it means that you cannot afford it rather than 'the price is unreasonable'. Or probably the Russian media uses that 'generous' side of the Russian soul?

[TigerPaws]

"Rich" is a very subjective word Lily so it depends on what you are looking for, in America it also depends on where you are at, there is a huge difference between areas, say California (expensive) verses rural Alabama.

If I may ask Lily what are you looking for? What kind of lifestyle?

TigerPaws

[HiTech]

Lily: You  are asking 2 very different questions.

In America Rich generally refers to either yearly income or net worth.

I have found that most of the "rich" people I know, you would not know they are rich just by judging the way they spend or act. They are not really frugal but they do not just spend money needlessly just to show off. The people who act like they have a lot of money generally do not.

In general a very good income in the USA is 100,000 or more. But depends a lot on where you live, LA area or New York would drastically change that number.

I would guess most people would consider some one rich who has a net worth of 10 million or more.

HiTech

[MaxxumUSA]

"Rich" from my point of view can be looked at in two different ways.

There are rich people that are wealthy - meaning they themselves or through their family they have created a very high net worth.  For instance - owning a lot of land, owning stocks, precious jewels, etc.  There are wealthy people that are "rich" - but don't derive an income from that wealth, and as a matter of fact might lead a life in which none of their peers even know they have this "wealth."

Then there are people that have a high income.  This is where Tiger's point comes in to play.  Part of the answer has to do with the cost of living verses your income.  In my home town - Amsterdam, NY you can live fairly well on a meager income.  If someone around these parts makes $60k a year - they are doing well.  Anything over $100k a year would be considered extremely well.  $150k a year or more and you are rich.

That same $150k a year in NYC would not get you that far with comparible living standards.

I have a friend that lives on Long Island - works in NYC.  He is a stock broker.  He makes over $400k per year.  But his home, vehicles, toys, and free cash is about the same as me.  I make quite a bit less than that and live just as comfortably.

From a financial standpoint I am trying to take my "High income richness" and turn it into "Wealth".

Of course there is a crossover between the two categories.  For instance a very wealthy person could have either a positive or negative income.  As well a person with a high income can accumulate or lose wealth.  THIS is what I am personally learning to control - as noted in my post a few months back when I realized my true wealth had very little to do with my income - but more how I handled my income.

BC - your response hit home with me.  I don't do it often - but when in the mood for a certain dish I certainly order it whether it is on the menu or not.

[Turboguy]

I think the term Rich is relative, just as age is.   Ask an 8 year old what he considers old and he will generally answer something like 18 or 20   Ask a 90 year old what young is and they would usually say something under 65 or so.   Rich is the same.   Someone is rich if they make twice as much as you do and someone is poor if they make half as much as you do.

I don't think you will find too many "middle-class educated (say, a Master's level) American person consider to be rich"   I would hope with that education he would at least make what we call upper middle class.  

I won't say it is totally universal but I think American's tend to be less concerned with what others think.   I think most Americans would look at someone who saved money as smart but if they did it in a way that showed a lack of class such as perhaps tipping 5% for a good dinner with great service or doing something unethical that is another situation.

Yes, when you get to "old money" it is another situation.   They respect no one except others with old money and even if you spend big and are rich you are never quite a member of the club (or so I believe with no first hand experience)

[catzenmouse]

I realize that this is money based but I'll just throw in the "other" use of rich.

Someone who is happy with their life, has their health, their loved ones, and who does not consider having the most toys as being what is important in their lives. They have an internal richness that does not depend upon their bank account or stock portfolio.

FWIW,
 Ken

[TigerPaws]

I realize that this is money based but I'll just throw in the "other" use of rich.

Someone who is happy with their life, has their health, their loved ones, and who does not consider having the most toys as being what is important in their lives. They have an internal richness that does not depend upon their bank account or stock portfolio.FWIW, Ken

While I agree I do not believe that is what Lily was asking.

Then again Mae West said "I have been rich and I have been poor, rich is better"

TigerPaws

[viking]

Ken

Amen.

Greg

[Wayne B]

Ken...you got it ....Now, Anna and I got to go pick up some can along the road...before our neighbors beat us to them

[catzenmouse]

Ken...you got it ....Now, Anna and I got to go pick up some can along the road...before our neighbors beat us to them

Don't forget the glass coke bottles! Nickel a pop! 

[TigerPaws]

Careful gentleman you will reinforce AnastassiaAsh's belief that we are all a bunch of cheap Scrooge's.

TigerPaws

[BC]

I'll add another couple in the mix:

Someone who can maintain his/her lifestyle without being in debt.

I've met plenty of 'rich' folk who have a net worth less than that of a street musician holding a hat riding around in stretch limos.. Doesn't impress me at all.

Someone who can get the best 'bang' out of a buck.

I still have to work for a living, could maybe afford a nice boat but would rather rent or charter than own one.  After all, year round fees, insurance and maintenance far outweigh the cost of a nice chartered cruise.. - those who own and those who charter have about the same amount of fun in the end unless they are retired and can really enjoy the investment sailing around the world. 

I get seasick anyway.. a week or maybe two is quite ok, a day or two better.

I think though that Lily's question points in another direction.. not about wealth but spending habits..

I find that most FSU folks I have met will spend whatever there is at the end of the month right away.. for a winters worth of potatoes, or mushrooms and tomatoes to can, or if there is enough buy an apartment or car.  In an environment where you really don't know what your money is worth tomorrow it does make sense.  To a westerner however it may seem 'silly'. 

Given the attitude that there 'is no tomorrow' my wife can 'swipe plastic' until it ignites.. and yes, I do get called 'Uncle Scrooge' from time to time.. it comes with the territory.

[Lily]

"
If I may ask Lily what are you looking for? What kind of lifestyle?

TigerPaws

Tough question. It probably depend on in what kind of environment do I get. I'd develop a lifestyle proceeding from what I have and where I can get at the given place, time and options available.

[TigerPaws]

Lily,

You will have to define what you want because the differences are vast between where KenC lives in California and BC lives in Italy.

TigerPaws

[Daveman]

As we've seen, the answers you'll get from this question will vary for sure.

I know the question in general relates to monetary status, or physical wealth, assets, income, etc...

10 years ago, that would probably be the first thing to come to my mind as well as an indelible workaholic pursuing the American Dream.  Over the last 5 years, I rarely consider money as being something which matters much (to me) at all. Granted, I don't want to be hungry, or worried about how I'm going to come up with enough money to pay the light bill next month, but now I tend to look a wealth as being "fulfillment" ...  having enough, or an abundance of whatever it is which gives one fulfillment in life.   I definitely agree with Ken on this one...

That being said... back to money... the definition of "Rich" in my family is having the lifestyle you desire without having to work another day to maintain it.  Money making money. Working because one is passionate about the work rather than coerced by the situation to bring home a paycheck.  The amount of acquired assets to achieve this will vary tremendously in different parts of the west as well as at what 'level' of lifestyle one is satisfied. 

Is there actually a Western "standard"?  "Millionaire" used to the the catchword... but if you pose the question to someone living in a cabin in the Blue Ridge mountains, his answer would be quite different than the one given by someone living in a Penthouse in NYC.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a certain level of comfort, Lily...  what do you envision as a lifestyle you would desire?  We can give a much more meaningful answer if we have a starting point of your thoughts... 

Dave

[Wayne B]

What is Rich.....My first belief would be, having a partner in life that would stand beside you in times of thick or thin...Rich, in the knowledge of what is right or wrong. Rich...is to awake at night...and to look at her as she sleep's....and to know that you have found something so very special....If this is the meaning to being 'Rich'...I will invest all that I have.....

[catzenmouse]

What is Rich.....My first belief would be, having a partner in life that would stand beside you in times of thick or thin...Rich, in the knowledge of what is right or wrong. Rich...is to awake at night...and to look at her as she sleep's....and to know that you have found something so very special....If this is the meaning to being 'Rich'...I will invest all that I have.....

 - and -

10 years ago, that would probably be the first thing to come to my mind as well as an indelible workaholic pursuing the American Dream.  Over the last 5 years, I rarely consider money as being something which matters much (to me) at all. Granted, I don't want to be hungry, or worried about how I'm going to come up with enough money to pay the light bill next month, but now I tend to look a wealth as being "fulfillment" ...  having enough, or an abundance of whatever it is which gives one fulfillment in life.

 

[I/O]

I have found that most of the "rich" people I know, you would not know they are rich just by judging the way they spend or act. They are not really frugal but they do not just spend money needlessly just to show off. The people who act like they have a lot of money generally do not.

Or............"An empty barrell makes the loudest noise".

Lily: FWIW if you are looking at this subject from a personal perspective, the term "Rich" is quite confronting for many westerners.  You will find many may say something along the line of "Oh he is quite a wealthy guy" or similar.  Most people who have real money, will tend, if pushed on the subject of financial status, to refer to themselves as "Comfortable".

My question to you is, are you seeking information for personal interest or do your questions form part of some sort of research project?

I/O

[Lily]

Lily,

You will have to define what you want because the differences are vast between where KenC lives in California and BC lives in Italy.

TigerPaws

TigerPaws, I have thought of it, but it still heavily depends on what my options are at the given environment. Right, for CA I'd have a different picture than for AZ. I could easily adjust my wishes to reality, and still get the most of it. If the opportunities are limited, it is likely that I still find something good for my man and me.

[mervin]

Well I guess I'm a lot more shallow than the rest of you guys because I view wealth as something that is purely monetary, and has nothing to do with any other factor.  I also don't think that those people with an annual income of $100,000 rich. I'd say that's upper middle class income at best.  $250,000 and above is what I would consider to be wealthy; or whenever you reach a point where you feel comfortable wiping your ass with $100 bills. Which comes first!

It's a subjective opinion of course, but then again wealth is always subjective. Wiping your ass with Ben Franklin however, isn't subjective at all! :-P

[Daveman]

It's a subjective opinion of course, but then again wealth is always subjective. Wiping your ass with Ben Franklin however, isn't subjective at all! :-P

I do that now... right before I hand them off to the IRS... 

[MaxxumUSA]

I do that now... right before I hand them off to the IRS... 

Good point.  Don't get me started!

[Turboguy]

I still think income has little to do with it.   My personal income is under $ 100 grand yet I can afford to go to Egypt, two months later to Thailand, two months later to Sochi and then in a few months summer in the Carribean and yes, If I wanted to wipe my ass with $ 100.00 bills I could have a very severe case of diarrhea and not give it a second thought.

I see lots of people with incomes well in excess of their $ 250,00 mark that can't pay their electric bill.   I have known people with incomes close to a million that could not get by and worried constantly about money.

I think the best answer is the one that being rich has nothing to do with money.   As long as you don't have to worry about getting by that is what is important and if you can manage your money you can get by on most anything.   My mother did quite well on under $ 1000 a month. VWRW sitting next to me disagrees totally with me however.