HELPLESSINHELL

[Marcopolo]

   Hey Guys,

   Man this process is hell!!!

   A few weeks ago  I posted about getting the  criminal background check from the Ukrainian governement . This  turtle-esque process finally came to fruition but now the visa approval is  back in the hands of  my country's idiocy.

   My fiance' has everything prepared to meet  the United States embassy in Kiev. The problem is that they friggin want to schedule her TWO MONTHS from now on October 2nd.

  What do we do? Our wedding is the 15th of September.

  This process will  now be going on a year!!!

  Any suggestions would help. Can she GO to the embassy and sit around for someone to miss their appointment?


Mark



 

[Serebro]

   Hey Guys,

   Man this process is hell!!!

 
   My fiance' has everything prepared to meet  the United States embassy in Kiev. The problem is that they friggin want to schedule her TWO MONTHS from now on October 2nd.

  What do we do? Our wedding is the 15th of September.

How could you decide on a date of your wedding if she hasn't come to you yet and she hasn't even got her Visa. ???

[catzenmouse]

How could you decide on a date of your wedding if she hasn't come to you yet and she hasn't even got her Visa. ???

I have to agree with this. Not only "cart before the horse" thinking but I think the horse has run off.

Do you want to clarify exactly what the situation is?

Ken

[ScottinCrimea]

I agree that you probably jumped the gun a bit on planning your wedding date.  It's possible that they are scheduling the interviews farther out because it's now summer there and so many people take vacation.  Typically the average time from notification to interview is about 4 weeks.  Ours was 5 1/2 weeks and is scheduled for August 16th.  that will be 11 months from the time that I first sent in the papers, but ours is a CR-1, not a K-1.

I can certainly sympathize with you, but the god news is that at least now you have a date instead of all of those months in limbo.

[Maxx2]

Some people in your position get married (in Ukraine) anyway, BIG MISTAKE! It would mean starting the process all over again get a spousal visa that takes a year or so. This one couple she being Japanese married in Hawaii while the K-1 was pending. She got the K-1 traveled to America. Tried to do the AOS. The INS said "No". They battled the INS or 10 years over this, Meanwhile she had 2-3 US born children. Finally the USCIS contacted her and told her to go to the US embassy in Tokyo to get her papers. She left the country and went to the embassy and they told her "sorry you are barred from the US for life". This husband has been to Congressmen, Senators etc etc but to no avail. The USCIS can sure be bastards.

Good luck

Maxx

[Maxx2]

   The problem is that they friggin want to schedule her TWO MONTHS from now on October 2nd.

Be jumping for joy on this one. Your wait is soon over.


Maxx

[William3rd]

Your wedding date is NOT September 15 anymore . . . .  It will be in October.

Interesting post on the JA couple. That was a misrepresentation of material facts and fraudulent entry case. The penalty is a permanent bar from the US.

If they had contacted legal counsel instead of listening to friends or self-proclaimed immigration consultants, they would have been told to either adjust status here without leaving the US or leave and come back on an approved I130. She interviewed on an I129F stating that she was not married when she was. Convenience cost them dearly.

[MaxxumUSA]

Be thankful that you now have your interview date.  Assuming she passes the Interview now you can start "Penciling" in dates, rather than chiseling them in stone.

My fiancee's interview is the 21st of august - only three weeks away.  We have not set a date for the wedding yet.  We will plan that after she gets the visa.

I agree - the process is horrendous - especially when there are delays.  Unfortunately these things are beyond your control.

If possible maybe you can visit her again before the Interview.  This will help your situation I am sure.  When me and Elena were waiting she was getting "antsy" about the whole situation - so I scheduled another visit and after being together for 5 seconds the whole world was better.

As other suggested - if you do visit - DO NOT get married.  You would need to start over.

- Good luck

[Maxx2]

Fighting for his wife
USF alumnus Keith Campbell met the woman that would become his wife. He soon settled into her Tokyo home as they made plans to marry.

Nine years later, his wife Akiko and their two children are back in Japan, but not by choice.

In February 1998, when Akiko applied for a K1 fiancée visa, she was told the process would take three to four months to complete, Keith said, so the couple scheduled a wedding in June.




The date for the wedding approached quickly, but the visa was still missing.

The couple decided to go on with the ceremony anyway. Held in Hawaii, a midpoint for relatives flying from both Japan and the mainland United States, Keith said it would affect the lives of too many people to postpone the ceremony.

After a short honeymoon, Akiko went back to Japan and Keith headed for the United States to prepare a home for his new family and - in what has proven to be a costly mistake - Akiko arrived two months later.

With fiancée visa in hand, she entered the United States already married to Keith - an error in judgment the U.S. government has labeled fraud but the Campbells argue was an honest mistake.

After eight years, three lawyers, countless hours and thousands of dollars spent trying to remedy the original visa error, the couple received what, according to Keith, seemed to be an answer to their prayers: A letter from the Department of Justice bearing the opening line, "The visa petition you filed has been approved." The document then states that the case has been forwarded to the US Consulate in Tokyo.
Akiko would have to go back to Japan to receive the visa she and her husband have worked so hard to obtain.
According to Keith, the form letter and conversations with U.S. Citizen and Immigration Services (USCIS) officials led the family to believe receipt of a visa changing Akiko's immigration status to permanent was a "forgone conclusion."

When Akiko left for Tokyo with her children - Leonardo, 4 and Micah, 17 months - the family thought it would be a good opportunity to visit relatives during a brief visit in Akiko's native land.


However, not only was the petition denied, Akiko was told she was forbidden to return to the United States for 10 years.

When he recently spoke to a representative of the U.S. Embassy in Japan, Keith said he was told the USCIS often employs the tactic of misleading people with visa problems so they leave the country.

"I'm beyond anger," Keith said. "It makes my blood boil with determination."

According to Tampa attorney and immigration and naturalization expert Osei Prempeh, the tactic is a common one. Once a person with visa problems leaves United States, they are told they cannot come back for a period of 10 years if a violation has occurred. This way USCIS no longer has to pursue the problem.



A family separated

Now Keith characterizes himself as a man possessed. A small business owner who still attends classes at USF, he has found his free time dedicated to the pursuit of reuniting his family. They try to keep close through e-mails, and the phone bills at home have seen a marked increase.

He spends his free time at a desk surrounded by pictures of his children, overlooking a playhouse that has been vacant since his family left. The pitter-patter of small feet has been replaced by the sound of fingers on a keyboard. Though he is busy, Keith said, the time he would have devoted to playing with his children or interacting with his wife is spent writing letters to anyone who will listen.

"Life isn't necessarily the stuff you have, it's the family," Keith said. "They're taking my life away over nothing. … We're going to stay together whether it's here or anywhere else."

He also has collected more than 100 letters extolling the character of Akiko, citing her involvement in their church - the First Church of God in Bradenton - her professionalism and her excellence as a mother.

Though he has graduated, Keith is taking Japanese 4 at USF and said he is willing to sell everything he owns to be with his family. This may mean disbanding his business and finding a new home for the family's dog, a rescued greyhound named "Q."

The move would affect Keith's son Matthew Campbell, 19, who moved in with his father and stepmother Akiko soon after the couple moved to the United States.

Matthew, a Florida State University nursing sophomore, said Akiko's encouragement influenced his moral character and without her guidance he would not have earned the scholarships that fund his education.

"She's an amazing person," he said. "I met her for the first time when I was 10, when she was still my dad's girlfriend. She's always taken care of me."

If the family moves, Matthew said, not only will he be deprived of his family, but chances are he would be unable to communicate with 18-month-old Micah.
"I won't be able to see my two brothers, except maybe every year or two," he said. "Even then I won't be able to speak to them because they'll be mainly speaking Japanese. … It makes no sense to me why this happens. My family has nothing to hide. I don't understand why we are being punished for it."

During spring break, Keith was able to visit his family in Japan during a trip he planned on making to help bring his children home. He flew 26 hours each way to spend just a few days with his family, Keith said.

The legal ramifications

Prempeh said he has seen this type of case many times before.

"Nothing is little when it comes to immigration law, but there are a lot of solutions you can go for," Prempeh said.
The U.S. government looks at cases in which a person who is already married enters the country with a K1 fiancée visa as fraud and a clear violation of immigration law, he said.

In Prempeh's experience, a hardship waiver - for which Keith has already applied - can take anywhere from two to six months to attain.

"When you are dealing with immigration, no attorney has control over them," Prempeh said. "If any lawyer in America tells you, 'I can do a waiver in a month or two months,' they are lying to you. Nobody has control over what time that you are going to hear from (the USCIS)."

It's this bureaucracy that has Keith frustrated.

"It's like David and Goliath, it's like me versus the government," he said. "They're wrong - they're 100 percent wrong. It's the perfect illustration of how the whole immigration system is broken. Not only can we not keep people out that we don't want here, but we throw out people like my wife who has no record anywhere, who deserves to be here. And we'll trick her in an underhanded way to get her out of the country."
 

[Daveman]

What kills me about this Tokyo story is that the government doesn't recognize marriages abroad as having validity in the US (according to what others have posted here). So it would seem that the fraud is actually more of a "perjury" charge for lying under oath... "the marriage isn't valid to us, but you lied about having a marriage we don't recopgnize" ... well, if this is truly the case, we should immediately deport every single politician straight out of washington...

[ScottinCrimea]

While truly a sad case, the bottom line is that they broke a law for convenience sake. "Keith said it would affect the lives of too many people to postpone the ceremony."

I don't think it was an honest mistake on their part, I think they thought that the law wouldn't be applied to them or that they could slip through and get away with it.

Then, when they got caught, he says, "It's like David and Goliath, it's like me versus the government," he said. "They're wrong - they're 100 percent wrong."

While I hope they can work out a way to be together, it's one more example of the need to do things the right way so it doesn't come back to bite you in the butt later.

[I/O]

I dunno what to think about all the various immigration departments.  On a process level things seem to be stright forward enough, but application of that process is often a little disjointed by what I have seen.

I see many guys come to these boards and comment, I suspect mainly due to the time lapse frustration.  I have commented on this also, BUT among the most difficult immigration regulations in the western world, mine and I have actually had no problems pur se'. We've gotten visitor visas, SC-300 (= to K-1), Visitor visa for MIL2B and so forth without any hitchs.  Sure it has been slow, but everything has actually worked fluently.

Could it be something to do with "Doing it by the book"? Almost invariabley, the guys who complain the loudest from my country, and there is many, when I dig a little it usually reveals "Something" amiss in either the application or personal history or information supplied, or planning.  I don't wish to sound "Cocky" because ours has worked, but notwithstanding the annoyance of travel to interviews etc, the document process is very straight forward although extensive. Why do so many people have so much trouble? I can't accept that it can all be to do with "The System".

I'm particularly interested in William's take on this.

I/O

[catzenmouse]

I/O,

 We have been one of the "lucky" few who have had joy with USCIS. We filed everything they needed plus a few dozen extra bits of evidence for Elena and Sergei. They were fine with Elena but had a problem with Sergei. It took us filing 4 times, paying 3 extra fees, getting the local Congressmen involved before they finally approved the green card for the (then) 5 year old.

 In the end this process will cause a delay of almost a year for Sergei's 10 year green card and an additional cost for us of over $1000 dollars.

 Not one bit of apology or, of course, a single returned fee because they screwed it up (which they did admit) so to say that I have a negative belief in the process is an understatement.

Ken

[Maxx2]

They broke a rule and the USCIS makes them pay for it that's all. I would imagine the couple thought "What's the difference? Were going to get married either before or after she arrives on a K-1. So what's the big deal? Our intentions are good. The INS will just shrug this off."

IMy involvement with the USCIS is mostly with VAWA cases. It is my observation that they feel frustrated that women who claim to be abused are taken under the protective custody of the VAWA staff of the Vermont Service Center. This irritates them. So along comes a case like the one above and oh boy do they get their chance to flex their muscles.


Maxx

[KenC]

I feel bad for the couple and it seems like a slimy tactic to lure a person out of country, especially with an "approved visa" bait.  But somewhere on the form they filled out it asked about marital status.  They lied.  They assumed that it would not be caught.  It was.  They may have further assumed that if caught, they would be given a pass.  They didn't.  Sorry, but you shouldn't have lied.

Maxx,
Sorry dude, but your theory that USCIS would use their powers to vent because of their inabilities in other areas, just doesn't even sound logical to me.  I can see an agent seeking retribution on an individual that may have given him a hard time, but not what you suggest.
KenC

[Maxx2]

I feel bad for the couple and it seems like a slimy tactic to lure a person out of country, especially with an "approved visa" bait.  But somewhere on the form they filled out it asked about marital status.  They lied.  They assumed that it would not be caught.  It was.  They may have further assumed that if caught, they would be given a pass.  They didn't.  Sorry, but you shouldn't have lied.

Maxx,
Sorry dude, but your theory that USCIS would use their powers to vent because of their inabilities in other areas, just doesn't even sound logical to me.  I can see an agent seeking retribution on an individual that may have given him a hard time, but not what you suggest.
KenC

I agree with you Ken. The last sentence should have read, "Then along comes a case like the one above and it's back to their usual business of being heavy handed".

It kills me (exaggeration here) that the USCIS can be so hard of happily married couples but let obvious GCG scamming go unchallenged.


Maxx

[William3rd]

They broke a rule and the USCIS makes them pay for it that's all. I would imagine the couple thought "What's the difference? Were going to get married either before or after she arrives on a K-1. So what's the big deal? Our intentions are good. The INS will just shrug this off."

If they only barred her for ten years, they are taking the position that she had over one year of unlawful presence and has voluntarily departed. SO, not a true misrepresentation case.

THere are several different ways that this could be handled with better results. All they had to do was postpone the wedding. Most attorneys would have told them to make no firm plans for a wedding without the visa in hand.

So this couple did it to themselves. "Our intentions are good, so we will just lie on our forms to get the visa that we are not entitled to and try to adjust on that rather than follow the rules." (And pay another fee) (And have to wait longer)

Look at the DS-156K form, folks. And the 230. Had to say certain things.

The system is in trouble because of the vast volume of immigration cases being processed. And then comes a case like this. The husband is the wrong doer and now he cloaks himself in righteous indignation. THEY did this to ME!!!!!

I cant tell if he was just a know it all or too cheap to consult with an attorney. The wedding was too important to pass up-too many lives would be affected (sounds like the cost of the wedding entered into this) and yet he over looked the most important person in his life-his wife. Self absorbed, he didnt even check on the effect. Somehow I just dont buy that.

How did she get here to marry? Probably visa waiver program. USCIS is in the right here. Waivers may take over a year. Husband should buck up and take it like a man. HE screwed up.

When I do K cases, I follow the same format I always have. Uhhh- no cover letter, sorry to the experts out there. Forms in the same place, exhibits in the same order. In and out, dont make waves, its like baking a cake. About 1% RFE, usually due to loss of photos or the like.

When I attended the liason meetings at the service center, fiancees were seldom mentioned because in the overall scheme of things, they are really small fry. When they were mentioned, it was about what the examiners liked to see and conversely, what they were not getting from the applicants.

I/O- it isnt just the system. And, in the scheme of things, not that many people have problems. This area of law seems to bring out the worst in people. Testosterone maybe?

[Maxx2]

I have been doing allot of film interviews with immigration attorneys. What I have found out is this. I hope William3rd will comment.

If a woman comes in on fiancee visa and marries another man. She has to leave the country and have her husband petition for a K-3 visa. I was told "a high percentage of these K-3's (or 'waivers'? I'd have to check my film files for the right term) are rejected". A high percentage I was told was "over half". But she has to wait outside the US. If she stays and it is more than 6 months for the overstay she is barred for 10 years and cannot adjust status. This of course is on a "fiancee swap" so I imagine some these rules apply to a situation like this. She should never have entered the US as a "married to the original petioner K-1 fiancee holder". But rather stayed behind and had him do a K-3 or what ever was the available petition back then. I am not sure the "Life Act" was in place at that time.


Maxx

[BillyB]

What kills me about this Tokyo story is that the government doesn't recognize marriages abroad as having validity in the US (according to what others have posted here).

Maxx mentioned they married in Hawaii. Their marriage is on the books and it's probably how immigration found out after doing a background check.

How did she get here to marry

I'd say she and all her relatives easily got a tourist visa to Hawaii since they're from the prosporous nation of Japan. I've seen many Japanese tourists in Hawaii. Many come to Hawaii to go to the gun clubs since I believe gun ownership is not allowed in Japan.

[Daveman]

Maxx mentioned they married in Hawaii. Their marriage is on the books and it's probably how immigration found out after doing a background check.

So he did... man, it's really tough being illiterate... but in my defense, I thought Hawaii was a suburb of Tokyo.. just gotta swim a little rather than take the train..

[Maxx2]

I interview RW immigration attorney, actually two. The one said that a high percentage of women who return back to the FSU to wait for a waiver get turned down. She said she had a client that was advised that she could do the waiver but she and her husband did not want to take a chance. She had come in as a fiancee of one man and left him and later met current husband. This couple has US born children together. She is unable to get any immigration "benefits" (EAD etc) and is living in this limbo state because she overstayed her visa. A waiver can be granted to her if she leaves the country but if it is denied which is likely she would be facing a 10 year bar from entering the US. I imagine the JW/AM couple faced the same situation and hoped to secure her status while she remained in the US. The USCIS just tricked them.   


Maxx

[I/O]

I thought Hawaii was a suburb of Tokyo..

And.......the other satellite suburb of Japan was Australia's "Gold Coast" for a time, however there seems to have been some "Ethnic Cleansing" there of recent times.  We used to joke about going to the Gold Coast and playing "Spot the Aussie".

I/O

[acrzybear]

Emotionally it's sad that a family is broken up, but the fault lies solely at the feet of the husband. Rules are made for a reason and when you break them, that's when the penalty phase kicks in.

  If the husband had done things the way he was supposed to-we would not be having this discussion now.  I do think it's sad the wife and the children have to pay for this idiots impatience.  What really ticks me off is the attitude I see so often among Americans when they get caught "But honest sir I didn't mean to cheat, it's not my fault!"-Bull$h!t you made a conscious decision to do the action!  I have not spent any significant time living any foreign countries so I can't say if this is a typical attitude.

 It's very simple-follow the rules, if you don't like the rules and you feel strongly enough, then work to get them changed.  One thing about following the rules is you don't have to look over your shoulder wondering when you will get caught.

 

[I/O]

One thing about following the rules is you don't have to look over your shoulder wondering when you will get caught.

I agree, particularly related to this visa process which can, as exampled by the guy with the Japaneese partner, have such far reaching ramifications. 

I acknowledge the frustrations of "The System" and most would agree it is far from perfect wherever one goes, but for the most part, if used correctly, it works. Nevertheless I can see many flaws both within the USA and my country in the "Application or Administration" of the system.

I have seen so many guys from my country "Crying Foul" when their visa application goes toes up.  In the very vast majority of cases I am familiar with, the real problem when drilled right down on, lies with the applicants. From what I can see, the visa clerks, if given the slightest opportunity will toss the application out, but who can blame them to an extent, because in my country's foreign embassies alone they receive something like 400 migrant applications per day. That would be miniscule compared to the USA or some other countries.

To my way of thinking, it is another case of get "All Your Ducks Neatly In a Row" before proceeding...........but others seem to think differently.

I/O   

[William3rd]

I have been doing allot of film interviews with immigration attorneys. What I have found out is this. I hope William3rd will comment.

If a woman comes in on fiancee visa and marries another man. She has to leave the country and have her husband petition for a K-3 visa. I was told "a high percentage of these K-3's (or 'waivers'? I'd have to check my film files for the right term) are rejected". WAIVERS ARE LOOKED AT ON THE BASIS OF EXTREME HARDSHIP TO THE PETITIONERS. K3s ARE EXPEDITED ENTRIES ON AN UNDERLYING I130 FOR A USC SPOUSE A high percentage I was told was "over half". PROBABLY HALF ARE DENIED. But she has to wait outside the US. YES If she stays and it is more than 6 months for the overstay she is barred for 10 years and cannot adjust status. OVER 180 DAYS OF ULP IS A THREE YEAR BAR, OVER ONE YEAR IS A TEN YEAR BAR. This of course is on a "fiancee swap" so I imagine some these rules apply to a situation like this. NO FIANCEE SWAPS ARE ALLOWED. THE ALIEN IS ALLOWED IN FOR 90 DAYS TO MARRY THE MAN THAT BROUGHT HER OR GO HOME. SHE IS NOT ALLOWED TO REMAIN. She should never have entered the US as a "married to the original petioner K-1 fiancee holder". But rather stayed behind and had him do a K-3 or what ever was the available petition back then. I am not sure the "Life Act" was in place at that time. LIFE ACT WAS THE BILL SIGNED BY CLINTON IN DECEMBER 2000. 

No life act- he files a 130 and she goes home to wait, says OOPS- we married because of all these plans my husband made and we knew it was wrong not to wait so I went home to do it right as an alien relative. Consulate says CONGRATULATIONS on your Marriage. Life Act- Same facts but add a K3- says the same thing to the consulate. Consulate says CONGRATULATIONS- here is your visa.

WHAT THEY DID- She came on the visa waiver, got married, went back for an interview and said, no I am not married, filled out the forms with false information. Correct information would have resulted in a visa denial and the recommendation that they file an I130.

SO she came back on an invalid  K1, got the AOS denied and then SHE STAYED in unlawful presence. Husband got his every night, popped a couple of kids. . . .

I feel sorry for her but not for him. She relied on him and he screwed up. BTW- the kids are welcome back at any time, they are USC. So, most of the article is disingenuous. Sorta like those VAWA sympathy or illegal alien sympathy articles.