No action here?

[philb]

jb, after reading your posts in this thread I am wondering something.  If what you say is true (about Moscovites vs. those from the provinces), why do you tend to steer your clients towards the smaller cities?  Is this a reflection of your clients or something else?   Just had to play devil's advocate here.

[Elen]

why do you tend to steer your clients towards the smaller cities

depends on clients:P Mosnvichki don't jump at first import boy, being the best they want the best as well;)

[Bruno]

I have make it now :D:D

[BC]

I just wish folks would take ideas raised in existing threads to sprout new 'fresh' threads instead of discussing the new topic in the existing thread.

Moscow women vs the rest of the world as an example

[chuckinwdc]

[user=300]M&M[/user] wrote:

'Nothing' would be my answer.
...generally speaking I wouldn't say that women from Moscow are the most beautiful in the whole of Russia, and there is no statistics showing that they make they make the best wives and mothers. They are more assertive, confident and definitely more feminist than the others, and do consider themselves superior to people from small towns...

Well, it's common for city girls to consider themselves superior to village girls, so I'm not surprised that women from the capital of the old Russian and Soviet empires would consider themselves superior to all womenkind.

It's a common characteristic of human nature, and I really don't blame the Moscow gals for thinking this way. I don't necessarily agree with them, but I understand where they're coming from.

For example, for those of us from the American capital and it's environs, we tend to think folks that live in backwater states like Texas are hicks and hayseeds. ;-p

Chuck in D.C.  :cool:

 

[jb]

philb,

jb, after reading your posts in this thread I am wondering something.  If what you say is true (about Moscovites vs. those from the provinces), why do you tend to steer your clients towards the smaller cities?  Is this a reflection of your clients or something else?  Just had to play devil's advocate here.

phil, I surmise you have me confused with someone else.  I have no "clients" to steer one way or the other. I'm not in the MOB biz.

The term "Moscovites" is all inclusive, men and women from Moscow are Moscovites.  The term "Moskovichka" refers to a woman of Moscow.

We hammered this topic to death over on the RWG some years ago.  I don't discuss it much any more for a varity of reasons, mainly that the majority of travelers seem to be headed to Ukraine simply because it's just easier.  Visa requirements, slope of economics, available women, a greater wealth of MOB infrastructure, and so on...

Also, the great majority of men involved in this pursuit do not have the time or resources to go after a Moskovichka.  If a man is limited to only two or three weeks a year, the odds would be stacked against him in Moscow.  You may ask why?  Well, Moscow itself is huge, last estimate was somewhere around 10-11 million folks living there. Moscow's economy is thriving, there's little incentive for a young woman to simply chuck it all and move away from home and family.  The "one week wonder" would die on the vine in Moscow.

Regarding the Moskovichka herself, you'd have to be smoking crack to think there are no beautiful RWs living in the center of Russian culture.  She is just going to be much harder to find, woo, and win.  The typical Moskovichka is just as beautiful, just as family oriented, just as devoted to husband and children, more likely to already have a grasp of English, probably better educated, more talented and sophisticated, and more likely to be on a higher social rung than the typical village girl who will grasp at any straw to escape the grinding poverty of the small Ukrainian town or village.

In short, the village girl is simply more accessable, more attainable, more likely to lean in the direction of taking a gamble on an unknown male from a far off country.  Her thinking is probably along the lines of: "I don't know anything about Hillsboro, PA, but it's gotta be better than this sh*thole".  Thus, she will play the one week wonder game, while the Moskovichka will not.

The women of Moscow will only make such a move for what she preceives as true love.  She will also be less inclined to the accept huge age difference; a pot bellied, balding, middle aged, brick layer, from Podunk, Ohio is not the prize to the Moskovichka that he is to the village girl, she's not that desperate.  You won't find the love of your life in a week in Moscow.  The Moskovichka is certainly the creme de la creme of RWs, but the foreign man will have to do more than just show up to win her heart. He will have to have a great deal going for himself, good education, interesting career, solid, stable, etc., he will also make a huge investment of time, trips, and commitment before she comes around to the notion of taking such a big step as marriage to a foreign man.

Donna, feel free to step in and help me out.  I've ruffled enough feathers for one day here.

[jb]

Chuck wrote:For example, for those of us from the American capital and it's environs, we tend to think folks that live in backwater states like Texas are hicks and hayseeds. ;-p

Are you trying to pick a fight?  If so, let me know and we can get as down and dirty as you want to.

[chuckinwdc]

Chuck wrote:For example, for those of us from the American capital and it's environs, we tend to think folks that live in backwater states like Texas are hicks and hayseeds. ;-p

Are you trying to pick a fight? If so, let me know and we can get as down and dirty as you want to.[/quote]
<smiling> Just tweaking you a bit, jb. Just a little, tiny bit. Hardly worth noticing.  ;-)

Incidentally, aren't you "Jack Bragg", or are you another "jb"?

Chuck in D.C.  <- the capital of the free world.  :-p

[jb]

Nope, not Jack Bragg.  jb is an fully independent entity with no affilations to the MOB biz whatsoever.

[chuckinwdc]

Nope, not Jack Bragg. jb is an fully independent entity with no affilations to the MOB biz whatsoever.

Oh, okay. I guess the confusion arose because Jack Bragg posts on mailing lists sometimes as "jb" and also lives in Texas.

Thanks!

Chuck in D.C.

[jb]

Jack Bragg has never used the initials "jb" on any of the public forums that I know of.

Jack lives in Dallas, which is my birth place, however, I make my home in "The Sparkling City By The Sea", the ever more beautiful, Corpus Christi.  

"Texas,,, it's a whole 'nother country".

Incidently, I saw a poll recently listing the most desirable cities in the USA to live in, Corpus was number 4, Washington DC was so far behind I can't even remember it's standing.

[chuckinwdc]

Jack Bragg has never used the initials "jb" on any of the public forums that I know of.

Then you don't know about the Russian Bride List on Yahoo Groups. There's a whole world of FSU Women mailing lists out there on the Internet, of which messaging forums like RWG and RWD and others are a very small part.

Chuck in D.C.

[philb]

phil, I surmise you have me confused with someone else. I have no "clients" to steer one way or the other. I'm not in the MOB biz.

Oops! My mistake.

[jb]

Chuck,

I'm already married to the best of the best, why on earth would I spend time reading all that tripe?  

I had a membership on P/L, but those people proved to be so clueless in general I just couldn't bring myself to post there.  I was an original member of the RWG, but was banned because I wouldn't toe the mark for Spencer.  (Incidentally, Spencer invited me to return, he even reactivated my account, however I see no value in posting "milktoast and pablum" for his newbies)  

I like it here just fine.

The people who populate all those other boards are free to read my thought here, if they have interest, although I doubt they care.  I have spent uncounted months in Russia, had dozens of Russians for several years in my classrooms, I speak fair Russian, (although the girls all tell me I have the cutest accent), and have a better than average understanding of Russia and Russians.

My qualifications are not the issue here.  If you choose to dismiss me as a hick and hayseed, that's your right.  But I'll bet I know more about Russia than you do.

[Son of Clyde]

He is not James Brown or Jon Bon Jovi either.

[chuckinwdc]

I have spent uncounted months in Russia, had dozens of Russians for several years in my classrooms, I speak fair Russian, (although the girls all tell me I have the cutest accent), and have a better than average understanding of Russia and Russians.

My qualifications are not the issue here. If you choose to dismiss me as a hick and hayseed, that's your right. But I'll bet I know more about Russia than you do.

jb, I've never questioned your qualifications. I'm sure you've got heavy street cred on the topic of Russia, man. It's cool.

My point is that RWD is a pretty small corner of the universe. It's fine as far as it goes. But there's lot's of other places where newbies can get the deep scoop on this process.

For the newbies who are interested in seeing what the outside world has to offer, three of the better mailing lists are:

[list=1]

• http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/russian-women-l.html [/*]
  
• http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RussianBrideList/ [/*]
  
• http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSUBridesResources/

The first is the grand-daddy of all the mailing lists, and it's got guys on there who have gone to the FSU a dozen times or more, or else live there either permanently or semi-permanently. The second has something close to a 1000 subscribers, and the list moderator lives in Kiev. The third is chock-full of resources that can help any newbie.

Two of the better messaging forums are:
[/*]
[list=1]

• http://www.visajourney.com/forums/ [/*]
  
• http://www.immigrate2us.net/forum/index.php[/*]

The first has a great feature where you can download government forms that you'll need for the process, but have already been filled out. Newbies can use the forms as examples that help decipher the bureacratese that these forms are written in. And they both have tons of information on regional service centers, EADs, DCFs, K-1s and more.

They're all at least worth a look for the newbie.

Chuck in D.C.

[jb]

Membership in a dozen web sites does not make one an expert, only time, experience, and exposure can do that.  There are no schools that teach this stuff.

[chuckinwdc]

Membership in a dozen web sites does not make one an expert, only time, experience, and exposure can do that. There are no schools that teach this stuff.

jb, you keep thinking I'm talking about you, or who has the most qualifications or knowledge about Russia. I'm not.

All I'm saying is that -- for newbies -- they can get a lot more of information and knowlege if they venture outside the RWD pond. There's a whole sea of resources out there that they can take advantage of.

I listed some of those resources in my previous message.

Chuck in D.C.

[jb]

Meanwhile, I think it's interesting that a rather lengthly post regarding Moskovichkas vs village girls has been swept aside and buried because someone wants to argue about petty BS.  Typical.

[chuckinwdc]

jb, no one's stopping you from talking about city vs. village girls, and no one's forcing you to participate in what you call petty BS. Take ownership, dude.

Chuck in D.C.

[Donna_Pedro]

All I'm saying is that -- for newbies -- they can get a lot more of information and knowlege if they venture outside the RWD pond.

 

I did not understand. You are trying to  offer a controversial topic for discussion or something else? What is your point? What was the reason for providing all those links? To prove that neither jb is  Mr. Universal Truth, nor  this place is the answer to all the questions? 

[chuckinwdc]

[user=115]Donna_Pedro[/user] wrote:

What was the reason for providing all those links? To prove that neither jb is  Mr. Universal Truth, nor  this place is the answer to all the questions? 

Nah, everyone knows jb is the Big Kahuna, the RWD Guru on Russia. Who could possibly dispute that?

Nope, just trying to expand the universe of possibilities for newbies getting good, solid info on finding and marrying their FSU lady.

I hope that doesn't upset you.

Chuck in D.C.

---

Great Newbie Resources[/i][/b]

Internet Mailing Lists

1.      [/b]http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/russian-women-l.html [/b]

2.      [/b]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RussianBrideList/ [/b]

3.      [/b]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSUBridesResources/[/b]

Messaging Forums:

1.      [/b]http://www.visajourney.com/forums/ [/b]

2.      [/b]http://www.immigrate2us.net/forum/index.php[/b]

[BC]

Well if I ever hit a really rough spot I already know exactly whom to ask for opin - straight as an arrow.

[Bruce]

Chuck - I tend to think the advice from JB on immigration matters is about as good as any guy is going to get on any of the other discussion boards out there.  On other matters JB gives well thought, experienced, though often "tough love," opinions on topics which are open to advice. 

As far as Moscow vs St. Petersburg / rest of Russia (which is a pretty big grouping) vs Ukraine / Kiev vs rest of Ukraine there are alot of opinions.  My experience is that the countries are not much different with alot of pretty girls in each.  I believe the average American guy is better off going for a smaller city / country girl than a big city girl.  So far my n=1 of taking a smaller city girl to a big city in the USA has worked fine, but I found a particularly well educated girl from a smaller city who was in a city fairly close to Moscow called Tver.  My advice to the average guy looking is to go for the girls in the more "unspoiled" places off the beaten track - though my n=1 was found in a place where alot of Americans have wives. 

I also believe from reading just about every board fairly often since 1998 that a guy is more likely to be ripped off looking for a girl in Ukraine than Russia.  Naturally, horror stories exist from each place, but more are from Ukraine.  An explanation could be that more guys go to Ukraine / write Ukrainian girls per capita and that the over all percentages of scammers is actually the same.  Some of our agency owners could attest to if my thoughts on this matter are accurate or not.  I know it is easier for a guy to cover a greater percentage of girls in one trip to Ukraine than to Russia. 

My observation is that if a guy does marry a Moscow girl he is more likely to stay married.  You have an n=2 of this on this board.  The key is looking for a girl born in Moscow as opposed to girls who have come to Moscow.  The girls that tend to be the sharks are the girls that were not born in Moscow.  I'll leave it at that.

Members, have fun chewing on this post!

[jb]

Bruce,

With a population approaching a million souls, Tver isn't exactly a village.