Visa Denied

[BillyB]

mother in laws are treated a little different than sister in laws. . . .

Yep, the interviewers probably know that many sisters are probably invited over to get hooked up with a waiting man. I've seen a few times on the forums guys announce their sister in law is about to or is coming to visit and if anybody is interested in meeting her, PM them.

Vaughn, keep us posted on how this will turn out and if your Congresswoman made any difference in the result.

[wxman]

Vaughn,

Does she have a history of travelling to other countries, i.e; does she have visas from other countries in her passport that shows that she has travelled outside her country and returned home after each trip? My fiancee tried for a tourist visa, wasn't rejected, nor approved (kind of a visa limbo), but was told by the interviewer that proof that she travelled to other countries in her passport and then returned home would be of great benefit in getting a US tourist visa.

[wxman]

I know at the embassy in Kiev, that at least one interviewer was Ukrainian, who moved to the US, became a citizen and then was hired by the State Dept after college and ended up at the embassy doing what he is doing now.  My fiancee was able to weasle that out of him during the small talk in the visa interview.  Her opinion is that this interviewer puts himself above his former comrades, and actually enjoys wielding some power over them. Kind of sick, twisted form of enjoyment.

[Vaughn]

Wxman, she's traveled to Turkey multiple times for resort style vacations. She
presented that fact w/ documentation. So, yeah, she has a history of coming home.

We have a small load of doc-transfer ahead of us. The appeal precludes changing gears
on the financial guarantee by us, there's no switching stories now.

This is a helluva great list, and I again appreciate all the comments and advice here.
Proof positive that at least one of us OMBs who thought he knew this particular
process well can still learn a few new tricks - like, asking away before the fact
rather than after.   

 

[catzenmouse]

When Elena heard that it was a Russian who interviewed her she was not surprised at the outcome. She said something to the effect of "Russians always treat other Russians like $hit".

We recently had a similar situation with a Russian travel agent. She called and spoke with him and he wouldn't even bother with her and didn't want to help. I sent them an e-mail a few days later stating my displeasure with how she was treated and they called me asking what they could do for us. Lots of excuses about her not understanding etc. Yeah, right. I put them through the ringer and we got exactly what she had asked them for the first time.

Funny how this works sometimes.

Ken

[Vaughn]

Shades of Uncle Pasha !!

[catzenmouse]

Shades of Uncle Pasha !!

LOL! Vaughn, that is EXACTLY what Elena said! Don't EVEN get me started on THAT person! 

Good Luck!

Ken

[Vaughn]

It so happens that I've got a buddy leaving Yoshkar-Ola this coming
Monday, so he's going to courier all the documents. This evening I
faxed the required list (on Congressional letterhead) to Venera's
place of employment - she'll have only this weekend to get it all
together, but is confident she can.

The list is comprehensive. When time permits, I may post it in the
Wiki - it should serve well those wanting to have a relative visit
(who is likely to be turned down).
The immigration specialist at Sue Myrick's office seems to know her stuff.

[jj]

Vaughn

sorry to hear about sister in law interview problem.  Are you sure it was a Russian interviewer?  My understanding is that only amercian can make that decsion, but many speak excellent russian or were raised in russian speaking american home. Maybe she thought interviewer was russian because of good accent?

Also I have used american attorney in Moscow with russian staff. He has helped me in finally getting interview date for Marina.  His website is www.bridgewest.com and his name is Ken White.  He has both stateside and russian phone and fax.

Congress person would be less expense , but may be an  option for you. He assists in most all FSU immigration  problems. -jj

[Vaughn]

 

Are you sure it was a Russian interviewer? 

Everything about the woman indicated she was Russian, to include expression,
accent, dress, body language. If she was American, she sure fooled my sister-in-law,
who I consider to be very sharp and observant.

Continuing on, my apologies for droning on and on regarding a topic that may
interest very few here at RWD. We're still in the thick of it; here's what's
going on:  our friend arrived home late last night - and today he turned over
all the paperwork to me. Very complete job Venera did! This AM I spoke with
the immigration specialist at the Congressional office - and yes, I've got to
get all Russian documents translated into English as I suspected I'd have to.
There simply wasn't the time to have Venera do that, we wanted the paper
here ASAP. But before I begin that step, I've got to get a few knowledgeable people
to cast an opinion. (The Congressional office won't open until tomorrow
morning so I'm soliciting your feelings tonight):

Her letter of rejection's third paragraph begins:

"Today's decision cannot be appealed. However, you may reapply."

Verbatim, it's discouraging. Or is it simply to discourage appeals in general?
I'll be faxing this letter to the specialist to get her take in the morning, but
wanted some feedback now, if there's any out there....   Thanks!

Vaughn

[Admin]

Everything about the woman indicated she was Russian, to include expression,
accent, dress, body language. If she was American, she sure fooled my sister-in-law,
who I consider to be very sharp and observant.

Continuing on, my apologies for droning on and on regarding a topic that may
interest very few here at RWD. We're still in the thick of it; here's what's
going on:  our friend arrived home late last night - and today he turned over
all the paperwork to me. Very complete job Venera did! This AM I spoke with
the immigration specialist at the Congressional office - and yes, I've got to
get all Russian documents translated into English as I suspected I'd have to.
There simply wasn't the time to have Venera do that, we wanted the paper
here ASAP. But before I begin that step, I've got to get a few knowledgeable people
to cast an opinion. (The Congressional office won't open until tomorrow
morning so I'm soliciting your feelings tonight):

Her letter of rejection's third paragraph begins:

"Today's decision cannot be appealed. However, you may reapply."

Verbatim, it's discouraging. Or is it simply to discourage appeals in general?
I'll be faxing this letter to the specialist to get her take in the morning, but
wanted some feedback now, if there's any out there....   Thanks!

Vaughn

Vaughn,

No need to worry a bit about "droning on" - there are many who are interested in this situation, and outcome.

I am no expert - but my experience with bureaucrats is when they write something as matter-of-factly as the phrase you quoted, there is virtually no chance of reversal.

Is there a huge difference between the timing of an appeal verse reapplication?

I agree that your best bet is to continue to work through your Congressman and see if they can offer any relief. At this point, however, I would be thinking about the reapplication process and getting THAT moving. It may be the time you take trying to determine appeal eligibility would have been better spent on the new app.

FWIW (not much)

- Dan

[wxman]

"Today's decision cannot be appealed. However, you may reapply."

Unfortunately, collecting visa application fees is good business for the US government. In other words it is saying their decision can not be appealed, but for another $100 we will look over it again and come up with the same answer.

[Vaughn]

Dan, reapplying could begin almost immediately. It's just a phone call away.
The process begins over there, locally. It's been suggested that a reapplication
so soon may prove fruitless, but sure, we'll try it anyway if the Congressional
office feels an appeal is out of the question.

I'm banking (at least this hour) on the specialist saying something like,
"Oh no worry - that's standard." As she's made such appeals before, our
case seemed like familiar terrtory to her.

Failing that, we've got to grill Venera on exactly which of these
documents she submitted with her app, and which she did not...  the list
is extensive, and I doubt most applicants would submit all as listed.

She's got every reason to return home - and it's her burden to prove that.
A stronger re-app, if denied again, could doom her chances of ever visiting
until she reaches retirement age.

Unfortunately, collecting visa application fees is good business for the US government.

AH, wxman - the money angle! Paragraph four: "If you do decide to
reapply, you must submit a new application form and photo and pay the visa
application fee again. There can be no guarantee that you will receive a different decision.
Only a new interview can determine that."

[I/O]

"Today's decision cannot be appealed. However, you may reapply."

Quite true, it can't pur se' at Embassy level. That is pretty much standard Embassy issue anywhere.  There is more in what it doesn't say than what it does.  What should be understood is that most if not all Embassies have no facilities to handle appeal processes. Usually appeals need to be heard by review courts/tribunals or other similar jurisdiction. Those jurisdictions can usually make a "directive" to the Embassies.  Obviously don't take this as exact from USA but my understanding is the process is quite similar to my country.

[William3rd]

There is no stateside or judicial processes for NIV denials abroad. . . .
consular discretion. If the alien cannot prove to the consular officer to a clear and convincing standard of proof that the alien is approvable, the application must be denied.


Now what does the rest of the letter say as far as the specific reasons for denial?

[MaxxumUSA]

Vaughn,

No need to worry a bit about "droning on" - there are many who are interested in this situation, and outcome.

I am no expert - but my experience with bureaucrats is when they write something as matter-of-factly as the phrase you quoted, there is virtually no chance of reversal.

Is there a huge difference between the timing of an appeal verse reapplication?

I agree that your best bet is to continue to work through your Congressman and see if they can offer any relief. At this point, however, I would be thinking about the reapplication process and getting THAT moving. It may be the time you take trying to determine appeal eligibility would have been better spent on the new app.

FWIW (not much)

- Dan

Dan...  I started another thread about invite letters.  Can you integrate these threads somehow?  They both seem to be on nearly the same topic.  And should probably be a sticky in the appropriate section.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Dan...  I started another thread about invite letters.  Can you integrate these threads somehow?  They both seem to be on nearly the same topic.  And should probably be a sticky in the appropriate section.

Yes, i was just thinking about that. These are very important and good threads.

Vaughn, I am so sorry you and your wife and her sister have to go through this. Tell them they can call me any time for understanding ear.  I KNOW how they must feel right now.   

[Ste]

Uncle Pasha?

This Uncle Pasha? http://www.unclepasha.com - he's my hero - Soviet Misery Tours, whole day in OVIR experience, drinking tours, he's a miserable bastard but he's honest about it.

Moi geroi......

[Vaughn]

Ste, you've gotta be kidding. Geroi? If Pasha's business ethics were
as strong as his website is entertaining, I'd agree with you.

Dan's feeling that "no appeal" means "no appeal" was not the truth
I wanted to hear, but it in fact is true I'm afraid. Such was also the
opinion of the Congressional office when I faxed them a copy of the
denial letter. They're now suggesting a reapplication utilizing their
rather extensive list - which I will post on the Wiki in due time.

Now what does the rest of the letter say as far as the specific reasons for denial?

Depends on what one calls specific. Specifically, she failed to prove strong ties. Period.

Dear Applicant:

We regret to inform you that you have been found ineligible for
a nonimmigrant visa under Section 214(b) of the Immigration and
Nationality Act. Under U.S. immigration law, all applicants for
nonimmigrant visas are presumed to be intending immigrants. In
order to be approved for a visa, applicants must satisfy the
interviewing officer that they are entitled to the type of visa
for which they are applying and they will depart the United
States at the end of their authorized temporary stay. This
means that before a visa can be issued, applicants must
demonstrate strong social, economic and/or familial ties within
Russia.

Unfortunately, because you either did not demonstrate strong
ties in Russia today or were not able to demonstrate that your
intended activities in the U.S. would be consistent with the
visa status, you are ineligible for a nonimmigrant visa.

Today's decision cannot be appealed. However, you may reapply.
If you have additional evidence to demonstrate compelling
reasons to depart the United States that you did not present
today, you may wish to bring that with you. Otherwise, you
should consider reapplying after there has been a significant
change in your current situation.

If you do decide to reapply, you must submit a new application
form and photo and pay the visa application fee again. There can
be no guarantee that you will receive a different decision. Only
a new interview can determine that.

Sincerely,
Consular Officer
Nonimmigrant Visa Section
Embassy of the United States

Emotion aside, I see the current packet of documents as a very
convincing statement of her case for eligibility. Of course, there
are documents here that were not a part of her original presentation.
It's our job now to find out which ones were present, and which were
not. Then we can go about the joy of starting all over again.

The significance of the financial guarantee by several members here
was not lost on me. Thanks to all. I am perusing Maxxum's Invitation
Letter thread as well, and will offer some input there. The quandry
I find with letters of invite is that we never really know what works -
we only think or want to believe that the letter we
authored must have been the catalyst for a positive decision. We
had my MIL visit a few years back - and so I thought I knew the drill.
Substitute a younger woman for Babushka, and the rules for scrutiny
change significantly as noted by William and others. Ironically, Mama
was approved without even an interview - only fingerprinting - and
truthfully, she had far fewer reasons to return home than Venera, who
was denied.

[Admin]

Dan...  I started another thread about invite letters.  Can you integrate these threads somehow?  They both seem to be on nearly the same topic.  And should probably be a sticky in the appropriate section.

I can, indeed, merge the topics. I worry a bit they will be more difficult to follow as they are merged ONLY according to the date/timestamp of each post. I was waiting for a little more information in each topic to develop before seeing what I can do to combine them - and I agree that their value warrants a sticky.

- Dan

[Admin]

Ste, you've gotta be kidding. Geroi? If Pasha's business ethics were
as strong as his website is entertaining, I'd agree with you.

Dan's feeling that "no appeal" means "no appeal" was not the truth
I wanted to hear, but it in fact is true I'm afraid. Such was also the
opinion of the Congressional office when I faxed them a copy of the
denial letter. They're now suggesting a reapplication utilizing their
rather extensive list - which I will post on the Wiki in due time.

Vaughn,

I feel absolutely no pleasure in being correct in my intuition. I am, sincerely, sorry the decision went that direction.

Hopefully, with the guidance and advice from people here, and with the support (and follow-up?) of your Congressman's office, you will be able to get a different decision with the re-application.

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

Uncle Pasha?

This Uncle Pasha? http://www.unclepasha.com - he's my hero - Soviet Misery Tours, whole day in OVIR experience, drinking tours, he's a miserable bastard but he's honest about it.

Moi geroi......

Ste,

 If you check real close I think you've switched to drinking photo copier fluid instead of beer.

 Paul Voytinski (sp) is a worthless pansy who ran off to the country leaving my wife and son stranded at the train station AFTER he was paid to take care of their to and from the train station to the flat AND to and from the embassy from the flat. We finally got one of his helpers to step up and take care of half of this. They went to and from the embassy by metro.

 He is the second lowest form of life on the planet IMO. God help him if I'm ever behind the wheel when he's crossing the street!

Ken