The New Moscow

[DKMM]

As most of you may know I decided to go spend more time to get to know my nevista better on her home turf.  Lucky for me, this flat came with internet access and I'm still on different sleep schedules.  Here is a blurb on my experiences so far.

Arrival into SVO.  It sure feels different coming back so soon.  I head to the passport hall quickly ahead of the rush.  It soon fills up behind me, probably 400 people trying to clear customs and only 2 lines open.  A bunch of people were cutting.  I managed to thwart some Italians, by virtue of my aggression and height advantage.  Still, some fat Russians were able to squeeze by and dart in front of me when it was my turn to go.  Oh well, that's part of life here, welcome back to the land of inconsiderate!  I also noticed the guards would bring some rich looking people to the front of the line... i wonder how they did that?

In the baggage claim it was pure chaos.  Bags strewn about everywhere.  The belts were choked full and I saw some people crawling back through the curtain to pull their bags from the back.  Ahh Rossiya!

I quickly found my new driver.  He was very funny and entertaining.  It took a while to get him to stop speaking German to me.  He knew i came in on Lufthansa so he just made that assumption.  My German is about as bad as my Russian which was as bad as his English so we used all 3 languages.  We waited forever for a train and watched cars go in the opposite lane to take a left further up.  He told me a cop would be there and sure enough there was!  We watched people keep getting pulled over with a flash of the baton.  He must have had 10 cars and trucks stopped at a time!  The driver said the cop can buy a nice house with all that. 

At my flat deep in the financial district I was met by a young couple that showed me the flat.  The guy looked positively gay except for the fact it was his girl with him.  He showed me everything and she translated (which was odd since I spoke only Russian with them).  As usual its a rather dumpy sort of place in a pre-revolutionary building but a nice area to be sure.  A quick tour reminded me of the sights and smells of moscow.  Pretty girls everywhere loving the warm weather.  Drunks everywhere loving the freedom to be drunk in public.  Beer bottles EVERYWHERE.  Mercedes after BMW after Audi's at least every 3rd car.

I was exhausted having been "on the road" for 30 hours at this point.  My girl just got off work and informed me that I am too tired to do anything so she will buy dinner and come straight over.  A perfect reunion ensued.

[DKMM]

Mosquitos!  Those bloody bastards are buzzing my ears and waking me up.  I had to put ear plugs in so I would not hear dam mosquito wings!! I was thinking of Scott wondering why they don't have screens in their windows.  I asked E, why don't you have screens like we have in America?  She said in typical russian fashion "Nobody has them here".  Ahh ok perfectly good reason then...

I tried closing the window but she declared she can't breathe, and this place has 15 foot ceilings!  Even in winter she will crack the windows... bozhe moi!  We had a good talk about winter in the US and how much it costs to heat a house.  She said ok we will just crack open the window ever so slightly in the dead of winter (like it was a good compromise).  Uhh what??  Some stereotypes hold true apparently.

The next day I walked her to work, with a nice brush up on pedistrian vs. car etiquitte (cars assume foot traffic to be a nuisance).  Upon returning I finally got some sleep.  Actually the whole day was rather uneventful as I slept, watched Russian TV and farted around my area looking for the Produkty.

That night after work I picked up E and went to her flat in the burbs.  I love it out there, far away from foreign influence.  A jangle of chaotic mess of people going every which way.  We took my 1st mashrutka, which was really fun but it took a while to arrive.  Here E started sharing with me things she's learned from her Russian friends (Thanks Lily!) on some forum about moving to America.  She said our buses only come once every couple hours.  I don't really know as I don't take the bus and don't know anyone that does, but that's obviously false.

In any case, we end up at her flat she shares with 2 girls.  its tiny but well kept.  Her friends were there and made me sit while they made mass amounts of food and kept shoving it in my face.  oh DKMM, eat more!  Drink a toast to this and that!!  Its good to be back!   

Outside we flag down a car for a long journey back to the flat for all of 200 rubles.  He must have broke even on the gas alone...

[Lily]

Would you illustrate your TR? 

[Phil dAmore]

I asked E, why don't you have screens like we have in America?  She said in typical russian fashion "Nobody has them here".  Ahh ok perfectly good reason then...

I've always been curious about the lack of availability of window screening.  You can get them -at an extra charge- when ordering new windows for a flat, but to just go to the local building materials store or even one of the many megastores... they just don't have screens.  The best you can hope for is some thin curtain material that you can tack over the 'fortichka', good for maybe one season.  Normal fiberglass or aluminum screening material just isn't sold to the general public

Don't know about Moscow, but up here in Petersburg it's impossible to find ceiling fans or screens.  Why?   I have a theory....

Its the air-conditioning mafia! By making such low-cost alternatives such as screening and ceiling fans unavailable, they force you to either buy an air-conditioner, suffocate with the windows closed or be eaten alive by the mosquitoes.

Hopefully you have bought the 'fumigator' that plugs into the wall at night.  (Use Raptor brand, it's the best).  I have no idea what's in this stuff, it's probably banned by the EPA and the EU, but it sure is effective.  It kills the little buggers... slowly.  Plug it in at dusk and watch as the bloodsuckers fly slower and slower, finally falling to the ground and writhing in agony. It's fun to watch. :zappedhim:

[DKMM]

I'm sorry Lily but I don't have any way to add pictures while I'm here.  And i have  trouble  from  my home  pc as well.  i have to   apologize for some typing mistakes on here.  the space bar is overzealous.

So, yesterday I dropped E off at work and had breakfast at a local cafe.  This place was really nice, better than almost anywhere i've been in the states.  the offitsanka was quite attentive and smiling.  i don't know if that reflects a change in service attitudes but I  think its because she thought my russian was funny.  She suggested an english menu.  In fact I've  noticed that you can usually get an english menu here.

Anyhow I wandered on down to Lubyanka, the theater district (the Bolshoi is covered in scaffolding still!) and up Tverskaya.  What a show it is!  There is serious money flowing around here.  I saw a Maybach with a black suburban detail just tearing up the road.  Ahh the new russia, I love it!  Also, many old buildings are being torn down and new ones being built everywhere.  On every block there is some kind of renovation going on.   Again I'm only comparing the inner city moscow area and not the outlying areas.

I stopped in the recent history museum after pushkin square.  It was rather nice and i spent 2 hours in there.  Hardly any people in there made it even better.  After a nice lunch with E I headed down to the Okhotniy Ryad to meet with JazzyClassy.

I watched the changing of the guard and hung around for a while.  Lots of tourists this time of year representing  all nations as far as I could tell.  Muscovites too were out in force taking advantage of the park grounds.  its almost a different place than when I've visited in the off season. 

Jazzy met up with me and we hung out for a few hours.  She is quite the nice young lady and I really enjoyed being able to speak English without worrying  about my word choice with her.  She's far more mature and smart  than her age.

we went to the mall to do some shopping.  its like in America except even more crowded!  A lot of sponsered girls just spending somebody's money like no tomorrow.  Quite nice scenery, I'm sure Thor would have enjoyed it.  But too many of them looked like whores in my view.

We hung out on the intersection of Tverskaya and something else to watch the traffic.  A girl was there getting harassed by the cops.  she got mad, slamming doors and waving her arms about.  Finally she threw her water bottle at the cop car and then things got more entertaining.  They took her plates right off her car!  Poor thing, she was really quite upset.  I couldn't stick around though as my E was getting off work soon.  I said poka to Jazzy and went on my way.

At the metro stop I was looking to leave but the escalator was empty and some cops were there looking at me, one with a megaphone.  When some people approached he just bellowed into this device: "exit to the city in the other station!" (my translation)  it was about as loud  as an air horn in that place and i wasn't the only one startled by it.

[Jazzyclassy]

Was really nice to meet up and chat  was really cool:)

today it is raining and skies are covered , seems like no sun today:(

[DKMM]

Da u nas pagoda plokho cevodnya!  Kholodno i eto dozhd kak zimoi!  That's why I'm in here posting my report while my girl works.  Its not a bad life really.  So anyways last night we did nothing but hang out all night in the flat and talk.  I learned  a lot of things about her and her attitudes towards our future.  In short:

She never wanted to move to America or even planned on seeing it in her life.  She's not very thrilled about the prospect of it and said she's only doing it to be with me.  That's what you get when you go for a independent woman with a nice career in Moscow!    So stupid me said "oh well I'd live anywhere to be with you and be happy with it", to which she replied "ok then if I don't like America you will move back to Moscow with me?"  Doh!!  A lot of this is a result of my underselling.  I'm trying to prepare her for the worst and keep expectations low.  Also I guess I wanted to make sure she's doing this out of love and not for a chance to get away (even though I already knew that right?)  I told her that if she wants to work and i stay home with kids I'll live where she wants, otherwise its the other way around.  Surprisingly for such a stubborn girl she agreed wholeheartedly.

She's shocked still at the budget i prepared for her.  She used humour to disarm me but still didn't know how we would survive on my measly salary.  So I asked some hard questions about like well what if something happens and I lose my job and have to take a new one at half the salary and she responded very well about reducing our expenses and working hard herself. (she has no clue about my other sources of income).  It feels strange to be testing your fiancee like this but I think its necessary in this international marriage situation.

We talked about how we obviously got engaged too soon, which was obviously my fault he he.  But its too late now of course and she says we just have to get to know each other better while being engaged.  She wanted to wait a bit longer before we got hooked but is glad now because of the long wait for the visa.  Basically we both know that we are taking a risk but are trusting each other  that we are picky enough to have never gotten this far without knowing we are compatible.

I'm totally shocked at all the little things E knows about me.  Things I didn't remember sharing she seems to know like we've been life long friends.  I bet that happens to other guys here.  What a nice change from AW that are so self centered!

After several hours of talking finances, marriage customs, tax returns, our social security system etc. i finally had the feeling we are well on our way with the nitty gritty details.  E said that it would be much easier if I just married  an AW and that i must be crazy for trying to do all this extra work just to be with her (i knew it was a setup) so i told her straight that I would only do this for her and so on.  OK anyways I won't bore you with the details of my relationship but I'll just say my anxieties are dissappearing rapidly.  these are important discussions to have in person! 

I absolutely love the morning routine where she gets a little bossy and barks at me in Russian.  Its fun to fight back too, Russian can be such an emotional language.  its all in good fun... and its refreshing to have a girl that isn't afraid to criticize me and also let me do it to her without her getting pissed off.

Dam these mosquitoes, I'll look for that Raptor Phil.  I really didn't think I would need to bring bug spray to Moscow...

[Jazzyclassy]

Da pogoda is kakashka

DKMM:) that is nice to know that your anxiety is disappearing:)

I think you both are quite similar, you are both the same in many ways so am sure that things will be getting more stable and your relations will grow stronger:)

At least you know it is nice to read your report being so positive and optimistic about many things, I know I did not like your fiancee from the start but who cares, the main thing she should be so good towards you and it seems like she is doing a great job. I think I was wrong about her partially, though  well you know we are all different and it is fine if our energies are not matching it is perfectly normal there are the vast varieties of so many types of people and not necessarily they all will communicate so easily no garantee of that

I really do enjoy that you are have no age gap and that soothes things:))))))

You still got time to know each other more and more

The main thing patience is very important in learning things about each other, though for example sometimes I feel like I have no patience at all:)
It is all going to be good, we need to believe in a positive result of the things, otherwise it is impossible to carry on, though should also expect any result even the worst one

[RK]

Good trip report, DK. I like the way you write it...straight forward, calling it like you see it, not to syrupy (yet enough to understand).

You can get that same "VIP" treatment in the Boryspol airport in Kiev for about $15-20. Obviously it's not advertised, but the body language and interaction of the security people there says it all...I always watch a few passengers pick up on this and get "escorted" to the front of the line. When I fly into Kharkov from Vienna, the line is always so short and fast that it doesn't matter.

I'm curious...Russian/Ukrainian women can be very jealous of their man. Did you tell E you were spending the afternoon with Jazzy? If so, what was her reaction? If not, why? Just curious how your E reacts to your friendships with other girls, when it is truly that...just a friendship and nothing more. 

Jazzy...that was a nice post about DK's girl. Not sure I understand the age gap comment but I'll think about that one more later 

[Jazzyclassy]

Oi I have my amazing so so loved boyfriend , he knew I would go hang out with DKMM , I do not think it was a problem for E cos I met her in winter I do not think she thinks me somebody dangerous I am absolutely  not a rivalry girl , I am very very simple, I am always only a friend, I got my man:)

[acrzybear]

 

Jazzy...that was a nice post about DK's girl. Not sure I understand the age gap comment but I'll think about that one more later 

It seems that is Jazzys holy grail and she mentions it every chance she can.

Jazzy has made her thoughts well known regarding the age difference and makes snide little comments regarding it every chance she gets.

 Jazzy

 Everyone knows how you feel about this topic, but could you please give it a rest and not interject it into every post you respond to? 

 There are so many other things you are knowledgeable about and could do to try and help folks understand Russian culture better.  If you don't care for Ken C's relationship or others, just remember that if the Russian lady did not want to be there (for whatever reason) she wouldn't be. 

[LenaC]

Acrzybear
 I couldn't agree more!

[Rvrwind]

I was in Moscow yesterday for a couple of job interveiws. One of the fellows I met with is married to a woman 25 years younger & they seemto be quite happy & content.
I used to think a large age gap was bad as well, but the more I see it the more I realise that age doesn't matter. If two people are happy together & enjoy each other who are we to say different. In short its non of our phucin' business!!
I met with Lena when she was in Tver, that's the second time we have met & I still havn't met Ken face to face but I can tell Lena is happy. So who are we to critisize or steal that happiness. Leave it alone & let people be who they are & enjoy what they have found in each other, isn't that what life is all about???

[TigerPaws]

Now, now people you know you will hurt Jazzy's feeling again and she will cry the boo, hoo's that people are picking on her.

Jazzy, please listen to acrzybear.

TigerPaws

[ScottinCrimea]

I've been thinking about the mosquito thing.  It must be a lot different in Moscow than Crimea, because I have noticed very few mosquitos there.  On the coast around this time of year there are some small biting flies, but inland no.  We have screens on the windows of our two balconies, but they came with the windows that we purchased new.  Now that it's mentioned, I don't recall seeing anywhere that you could purchase window screens separately, but then this may be because none of the old windows in places have a standard size.  I would think, though, with the metaloplastic windows that everyone is installing that there should be screens available.  If not, it might be a nice business to get into.

[Jazzyclassy]

I really do not know how DKMM  found mosquitos in Moscow we simply do not have them really! I know in B.E.  russian word Комар  it is not mosquito as my boy told me the other word I just do not remember , maybe Ste can understand what I am talking about cos mosquito means like a huge insect and what we have in Moscow they are little maybe he rented an appartment in the centre where the air is much more maybe humid as he told there were a lot of them .
I do not know I live in the  south -west of Moscow it is the greatest place in Moscow it is a nice calm area with Hrushevkas 5 floors block of flats , those houses are old like more than 40 y.o. but the buildings are still solid and stable and safe, cos if you observe what they are building right now in Moscow these Hrushevkas are brilliant in comparison with crazy sorta modern sky-scrapers for people, with huge holes in the walls built by some immigrants from our former Soviet Union. When people are due to move to such new block of flats they are scared to see the new house with huge holes, some lacks and simply dangerous place to live in.

Well back to where I live   It is good also according to the air as well as my block of flats is situated on the hill and all the smog is mostly coming down and the air is balanced not too humid not too dry  . During this summer I never even heard this annoying sound of those eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee thing from "mosquitos". Plus it is not that hot for their existance I remeber they were appearing back in those summers when it was really hot like +25-30 the whole month.

[DKMM]

yes  there really are mosquitoes here.  They are the same  dam lil buggers  we have in the states.  I agree we could make a fortune selling window screens in russia!  all the windows are the same size so it should be easy.

E brought up the age gap thing with me.  She said at most maybe 6 or 7 years but that's if she needs to find someone that is established but  is quite happy that i'm closer to her age.  She said that is because we have more in common at our stages in life and can relate better than even  a 35  year old to her.  (btw i'm  29 she's 27)

I'm also learning a LOT about our differences in culture.  we  have so many misunderestandings based on that and it  causes trouble.  Americans and  Russians have far different mentalities and you just don't know how much until you live with each other.  As much fun as I'm having, this is no picnic to be sure.  In fact this is easily the most challenging thing i've ever done in life! 

Yesterday  we went to a club to meet some  friends  and the culture clash continued.  I'm honestly getting a bit tired trying to defend my way of life as they  (Russians) make it sound like Americans are plain  simpletons.  I know its supposed to feel  good that she's met 100's of americans and i'm the 1st one she likes  but really  no that doesn't feel good.   I  can  imagine guys  that have to deal with new wives  that slam everything they don't  understand  about America.  Most of it is based on pure fantasy too, like completely opposite of what we are really about.

[I/O]

FWIW from my experience and observations, Americans (Generally speaking) are one of the most misunderstood groups of people in todays world.

I/O

[Phil dAmore]

all the windows are the same size so it should be easy.

Not the exact same size.  Close, but if you measure them you will find variations of 3-6 cm in both height and width, especially in the older buildings.

[LenaC]

I/O

Why do you think it is so?
I experienced a lot of Russian arrogance when I talked to my friends during the visit.
I felt that it was my responsibility to educate them a bit on who the Americans are and why they act and think a certain way. I did the same thing that I have done in my eight years of life in the US: tried to explain to Americans who the Russians are. We are all arrogant in a way and I think the reason is that people fall to in to false assumptions too fast. They use generalizations and get influenced by stereotypes. Just think that only three decades ago many American men thought that Russian women looked like that BABUSHKA: 
 
BUT ANY WAY I AM STILL VERY INTERESTED WHY DO YOU THINK THAT AMERICANS ARE THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD PEOPLE IN THE WORLD?

[DKMM]

Yes this was very eye opening for me.  Smart men on here said go live with her in her home town to learn more about her.  Very true!  Not just about the woman, but wandering the streets of Moscow alone all day can really bring home the reality of the Russian mindset.

Also, having  this opportunity to be alone while she works gives insight into what it will be like when she comes to America and I have to go to work.  I see now that its important to keep her occupied with something.

Its quite a different life they  lead  over here, that is for sure.  Nothing substitutes time on the ground here in Russia.  I have a lot of respect for guys that  do this for a long time here.  I've had about enough I can take of being isolated while she works all day.  At  the same time its nice to be able to recharge my brain from having to work so hard at communication.   

Courting Russian women take a lot of time and patience.  you  better hope you find one that approaches it the same way.  I need to figure out how to program her to be limitless in her patience and to instantly recognize that Americans are not culturally inept!    If I figure it out i'll pass it along...

[Mir]

I really do not know how DKMM  found mosquitos in Moscow we simply do not have them

Maybe he brought them with him

Seriously, perhaps where he is staying is near a breeding ground for them (they tend to stay close to home) or maybe your apartment is on a higher floor as I don't think they can fly very high

[Serebro]

I really do not know how DKMM  found mosquitos in Moscow we simply do not have them really!

We do

I don't know why but I find mosquitos anywhere  and they bite me everywhere!
they bite me in Moscow, they bite me in Kazan(our climate is the same), they bit me when I was in the US. And nothing helps.
In my apartment I have window screens and I use fumitox but they find me and bite me. :yech:

[I/O]

LenaC: Oh my...!!! I shouldn't have started that in this thread.  Perhaps if the mods would like to cut this off and start another it might be more polite to the author of the thread.

Lena, indulge me to be very Frank and I hope not to offend anyone with my comments. Years back we saw very few Americans down here.  The ones we did see were loud mouthed, with 1/2 dozen cameras hanging around the neck and generally appeared to be a right royal pain in the arse. They appeared to do nothing other than brag about their own country and generally our attitude was, "If it's so phriggen good, then p!ss off home and have your vaction there". 

Americans were often perceived to be brash, big noters and throwing money everywhere.  Comming from a typically "British" style culture (Somewhat European also) one is expected to under play everything, never show you are proud of your country and operate with something of a "Cringe Mentality". 

Over time and many travels including 5 trips through various parts of the USA I came to think very differently.  WTF...??? Why shouldn't we talk up what we have achieved? What I learned, interestingly enough in Texas was this. I was admiring some high style Moto Cycles which belonged to a group of decent people staying in the same hotel with me.  Sure, did they brag about these things and all that they had, BUT, then they turned to me and asked about my country, city etc.  What a watershed.  I would normally have undersold things to an extent, but for once I opted to upsell things a little.

It was amazing, these guys sat like school children and listened right up.  They were genuinely interested, wanted to know all the details, asked a million questions and so forth. 

The point: I understood in an instant that American people are genuinely proud of their countries accomplishments, however they EXPECT and Honor others who are the same way minded about their own countries.  They did NOT look down on others, but they had little patience with those who undersell. 

Next, in a simialar situation some time later, by engaging American people, I found a level of personal hospitality and generousity that I simply could never have imagined.  The kindness was second to none IMO.  Sure there is times when Americans can give it to you a little "Unpolished".  So what??? They get things done and respect people who get things done.  Makes a whole helluva lot of sense to me. This showed me why America has done so well and will continue to do well. 

Sure America has had it ups and downs, but at the end of the day, there is a culturally positive attitude which IMO is unmatched anywhere else. This, IMO is totally misunderstood by much of the non American population world wide.

IMO the comments we hear in Europe and the East that all Americans are this or that is a result of a combination of plain ignorance and what we call here, the "Tall Poppy Syndrone".  In other words, if I can't compete, knock it down because they are taller than me.  If a Russian for example can convince him/herself that all Americans are fat and all live at Micky "D"s, then he/she doesn't have to lift their own game because ahhhhhhh well America is no good anyway.

We've had a lot of that here over the years and personally it p!sses me right off.

I think the misunderstanding is centered around the fact that generally speaking, Americans like to get things done, keep things moving forward, are proud of what they have acheived, are similar to my country in so far as being a relatively new culture which doesn't fit the older European Continental expectations and don't have much patience with the undersell. I could write all day on this, but I think you catch my idea.

I'd have a "Yank" as we errantly refer to all Americans in my trench under fire waaaaaaaaay before I'd have many others. Nevertheless, on a more humorous note, a goodly number of American GI's were down here during the war years and they were much better paid than the Aussie "Diggers" which created much jealousy, particularly when competing for the affections of the local girls.  The cliche' of the time was there is 3 things wrong with Americans, they are Overpaid, Oversexed and Over Here.

Hope that answers your question to some extent.

I/O

[wxman]

I have never encountered that reaction from Ukrainian Russians I have met in Ukraine or from Ukrainians. I have always had great conversations and never did I feel any negative attitude towards the US. Could it be the attitude of some of the people from the large cities? This isn't exclusive of Moscow. Seems like many people from New York City act the same. I have met some New Yorkers who like to put down us folk from the smaller cities of the midwest. They think that we are simpletons, and that we are not cultured enough. Lucky for us though, we have the large mosquitoes that like to devour New Yorkers.