All Good Things Come to an End

[acrzybear]

  JB

  You're scaring me, I think you need to get back out to the oil patch

Well put and advice that all folks looking for a partner should heed.

[William3rd]

GReat post, JB. Some may disagree but you nailed it. Socially repressed men, men with unrealistic expectations, or wife vacancy types make up a huge number of the searchers, which might explain the monstrously high failure rates.

[Simoni]

I’ve read it somewhere, and I’m sure we have all heard the old adage that opposites attract, however if you look at the reality of relationships that have been around awhile and have withstood the test of time, it is usually those commonly held values that hold two people together, not the opposite poles of a magnet. 

Excellent post, JB-- and the quote above is the key statement.

Men need to find someone that holds common values.  And that's very difficult to do in the fsu.

I'm glad I did.  But it took a lot of soul searching and a lot more than one trip to do so.

In the end, it's not about the pretty face or slender body.  It's about finding someone you love being with and love doing things with.

Sex starts the engine, but the fuel to travel beyond the first tank is commonly held values and interests in life.

[KenC]

Thank you Gator for starting the ball rolling for jb's great post.  I think you nailed my thoughts perfectly with:

The best way to approach RW is to come from an active single life.  In that way, a man can compare two “positives”.

If a man is indeed “lonely” (destitute of female companionship), marrying a cross-cultural RW is not the cure.  The cure is to fix what prevents women from finding him interesting or lovable.   Otherwise, the same problems will emerge with the new RW wife, and perhaps sooner than later. 

jb,
Brilliant!  Simply, f***en brilliant.
KenC

[AnastassiaAsh]

JB, your post is indeed like 10 commandments. This is pretty deep and philosophical. 99% of men in this endeavour will not understand what you wrote, but they will have to some time.  This is the best post in several months I would say. Also I think Gator's opinion matches mine almost every time, I don't remember when it didn't. So wise!  It is so pleasant to see some of your own thoughts written already by someone else and in almost the same way I would express them. Does this mean i am 50 or 60? (Gator, sorry, I don't know how old you are  ) Yes, and probably in those "patterns that define me as a person" as JB put it. Or those Christian values that will never change. You can't marry to be complete, you have to be 'whole' on your own and marry a whole person too. It is really really hard though. Been there done that. I have ALWAYSE felt lonely, from the time i remember myself, i have always wanted to get married and be WITH my husband and he was my air. It is a long process of getting happy on your own. At least for me it seems impossible. It is like an oxymoron for me.

KenC, why marry if you were happy before, if your life was exciting and not 'settled down'?

Also I think most of women would want a man who would really want them, who is really sick and tired of being lonely and who would do everything for them, with them, who would love them passionately and cherish thier every single glance....

[KenC]

JB, your post is indeed like 10 commandments. This is pretty deep and philosophical. 99% of men in this endeavour will not understand what you wrote, but they will have to some time.  This is the best post in several months I would say.

totally agree

KenC, why marry if you were happy before, if your life was exciting and not 'settled down'?

That darn "love thing" bit me on the behind!

Also I think most of women would want a man who would really want them, who is really sick and tired of being lonely and who would do everything for them, with them, who would love them passionately and cherish their every single glance....

I disagree with your here, dear.  The first part (sick & tired of being lonely and would do anything....) sounds like a desperate man to me.  And just why is he so lonely?  These traits should be scary for women IMO.  Are these men so desperate that any woman will do?  These are the guys that become psycho with jealousy and tend to be control freaks.  It could be rather suffocating to the woman IMO.  Confident and dynamic men are never in need for female companionship, and are also quite capable of "cherishing and loving passionately."  Especially once they find the "right" woman.
KenC

[jb]

You're scaring me, I think you need to get back out to the oil patch

Don't worry, my next assignment begins in about 2½ weeks, back to Kansas for Christmas and New Years again this year.  I'm thinking to try getting in a few days of pheasant hunting before going to work, we'll see how that shakes out.

[Gator]

JB,  Where have you been?  Everyone (well, everyone who wants to learn) has missed you.  Your post reveals the depth of the wisdom that you can share with those willing to listen.

Anastasia, I wish I were 50.    Although you have a few more decades to reach JB and me, you are very astute, and I particularly like your statement:

you have to be 'whole' on your own and marry a whole person too.

That is why KenC and I are distracted by your use of the term “lonely”.  Lonely is a negative word as it suggests a man who is suffering from painful heartache.   I am single but not lonely.  Besides having fine female companionship, I had many interests, and I was also busy with helping my troubled and troubling younger son still living with me.   

As you advised, I feel “whole”, and I consider my Moscow woman the same even though she wants to accomplish much more with her life.   She is young and has plenty of time to do that with my help as a partner, friend and mentor (i. e., as you say, doing “everything” for her). 

[Simoni]

Don't worry, my next assignment begins in about 2½ weeks, back to Kansas for Christmas and New Years again this year.  I'm thinking to try getting in a few days of pheasant hunting before going to work, we'll see how that shakes out.

Dang JB, didn't you learn about those Kansas winter snows last year?  In case you forgot, read your Kansas trip report :-)  LOL

[jb]

Dang JB, didn't you learn about those Kansas winter snows last year?

Yes I did, but the client still has money to spend,,, what's a poor man to do?

[Flyfisheron]

I'm thinking to try getting in a few days of pheasant hunting before going to work, we'll see how that shakes out.

Nice to see that you have your priorities straight!  Just got back from a quick 36 hour turn-around for deer.  A decent doe and and a nice 11 point that dressed out to 228 lbs.... all before noon.  Still manged to get a full afternoon working the dog for grouse (her first year, and she did wonderfully!!!).  Four birds before the the sun went down.

Now that that's out of my system, I can actually focus on the planning of the trip back to the FSU.

Fly

[Jumper]

I/O -
CONGRATULATIONS!
and best wishes for your new family !
great photos!  thanks for sharing them!


sorry i'm so late to the party,,

is all the cake gone?   

[Turboguy]

Also I think most of women would want a man who would really want them, who is really sick and tired of being lonely and who would do everything for them, with them, who would love them passionately and cherish their every single glance....

Anastassia, I won't disagree with the correctness of your comments and the wisdom of your evaluation but I think the rest of the sentence also raises some questions.  No one has enough long term experiences with RW to speak for all of them but to give an AW passionate love and cherish their every single glance is the surest and swiftest route to failure there is.   My still short time with VWRW seems to indicate that perhaps that may be different with a RW.

Don't worry, my next assignment begins in about 2½ weeks, back to Kansas for Christmas and New Years again this year.  I'm thinking to try getting in a few days of pheasant hunting before going to work, we'll see how that shakes out.

Good to see you back jb and nice posts.   Hopefully the pheasant hunting will shake out better for you than for the pheasants in your area.

[jb]

You guys flatter me, however praise from KenC and Gator is always nice.  Ms. Ash,,, what can I say to your comment other than "thank you". 

Life is funny.

[AnastassiaAsh]

totally agree
 
That darn "love thing" bit me on the behind!
I disagree with your here, dear.  The first part (sick & tired of being lonely and would do anything....) sounds like a desperate man to me.  And just why is he so lonely?  These traits should be scary for women IMO.  Are these men so desperate that any woman will do?  These are the guys that become psycho with jealousy and tend to be control freaks.  It could be rather suffocating to the woman IMO.  Confident and dynamic men are never in need for female companionship, and are also quite capable of "cherishing and loving passionately."  Especially once they find the "right" woman.
KenC

KenC, I totally understand your point of view. And I didn't mean psycho extreme of it all. My Tim dated women for a long time but it was horrible to say the least (won't go into details) and because not 'any woman will do' he kept searching and doing match.com. And once he found the 'right' one  it became even more apparent how 'lonely' he was. Yes, by lonely I mean without a person who one can give her/his all love, lonely heart, aching heart. And also feeling of loneliness can be overcome only with your spouse, in a marriage, because if you are constantly in the stage of dating and spending time with your girlfriend and not marrying her, then  your heart will become empty at some point again, lonely. So there should be a Christian approach to it. 

I am sure somebody wrote that hundreds of times already - One can be lonely but not alone. And i suppose one can be alone but not lonely. 

[KenC]

Anastassia,
I understand when you wrote:

One can be lonely but not alone. And i suppose one can be alone but not lonely.

 
I was much more lonely during the end of my first marriage than I was after.
KenC

[AnastassiaAsh]

JB,  Where have you been?  Everyone (well, everyone who wants to learn) has missed you.  Your post reveals the depth of the wisdom that you can share with those willing to listen.

Anastasia, I wish I were 50.    Although you have a few more decades to reach JB and me, you are very astute, and I particularly like your statement:
That is why KenC and I are distracted by your use of the term “lonely”.  Lonely is a negative word as it suggests a man who is suffering from painful heartache.   I am single but not lonely.  Besides having fine female companionship, I had many interests, and I was also busy with helping my troubled and troubling younger son still living with me.   

As you advised, I feel “whole”, and I consider my Moscow woman the same even though she wants to accomplish much more with her life.   She is young and has plenty of time to do that with my help as a partner, friend and mentor (i. e., as you say, doing “everything” for her). 

Gator, your are absolutely right, and it is great you don't feel lonely.

On the other hand - What are we all doing here? What are you, dear men, doing here? Isn't your goal to find a wife? A WIFE! Is that right? Gator, if you are not lonely and your heart is not aching, maybe there is 'something else' that makes you want to find a WIFE? What is that? How should we call IT? Unhappiness? Incompleteness? Loneliness? Desire for something more? I don't know, I think we are just having a problem with naming IT, but we all kind of understand this the same way.

If you are indeed happy being single why going into trouble with all this RW thing? This is just a rhetorical question. 

This is what I/O wrote

Anastassia: ... if I had really wanted to remain alone, I would never be here. You be the judge, but for me, no regrets about losing my single status.
I/O

...a man doesn’t really know what, or who, he’s really dealing with until significant time is spent together.   That can only be revealed after several months of dating, not sleeping with, a potential partner.  However, I do believe that one of the beauties of long distance relationships is that for the most part the people are not sleeping together; they are spending countless hours in communications getting to know each other. 

This is my moto! Why people haven't figured this out yet? This is the answer to those who say 'normal' dating is better than 'writing letters' or 'long distance relationship'. Of course two should meet later in real life, but there should be a long process of learning about each other without 'chemistry' interfering too much.

[FSUrookie]

This is what I/O wrote
This is my moto! Why people haven't figured this out yet? This is the answer to those who say 'normal' dating is better than 'writing letters' or 'long distance relationship'. Of course two should meet later in real life, but there should be a long process of learning about each other without 'chemistry' interfering too much.

Ah yes, there you have hit the nail on the head..... Too much "Physical Only Attraction" in this world, and then 2 people who are mis-matched realize after many months or maybe 1 or 2 years that they never really knew each other. Of course, there is never one rule that "must" apply to all, but what you say is very true though! Good points Anastassia!

[Mir]

Well the ones who are meeting and living together in real life should have more time to communicate.
It made me smile to read someone's remark that too much physical activity or sleeping together can hamper communication. Let's assume that a couple have lived together for 12 months. How much time do you think they spent in physical activity? only a fraction unless they have some supernatural sexual ability and if they have that then they are perfect for each other. There is always more time to know each other in real life then through letters and at times this leads to disaster.
However I agree that some men and women are more shy then others and it takes them time to become comfortable with each other, for them a period spent on letters, emails, telephone is quite helpful but for the prototype extroverts such means of getting know others are a waste of time and only the real thing matters.
As they say there is no single correct method, just one that is more correct for you. Finding what is the right approach for you as an individual is at least half the battle.

[SANDRO43]

What is that? How should we call IT? Unhappiness? Incompleteness? Loneliness? Desire for something more? I don't know, I think we are just having a problem with naming IT, but we all kind of understand this the same way...If you are indeed happy being single why going into trouble with all this RW thing? This is just a rhetorical question.

I'm not Gator, but for me being a "happy" single entails a number of aspects: being at ease with myself, satisfied with/entertained by my various interests, etc. and basically "at peace" with no major hassles. 

However, even when things are good, they can always be improved upon, and being a happy couple is synergy (1+1 > 2) .

[Misha]

This is my moto! Why people haven't figured this out yet? This is the answer to those who say 'normal' dating is better than 'writing letters' or 'long distance relationship'. Of course two should meet later in real life, but there should be a long process of learning about each other without 'chemistry' interfering too much.

Then, there is also the case of people writing for months, calling and spending hours on the phone, the man thinking that he has found his soul mate, and when they meet the woman realizes that there is no chemistry. Been there, done that. Would not recommend it to anyone. It is much better to meet, figure out if there is chemistry, date and then let things take its natural course.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Gabaub, i totally agree, so Go, and visit her, don't stretch to a year or more, this is ridiculous. Nobody talks about extremes, writing for a year or more and then visit or not writing at all and just visit.....For me it lies somewhere in the middle - write for 2 months, visit in 3, proceed with several visits if you need to......we discussed it million times in hundreds of other threads.

And another thing, i can always see if i have chemistry with a man just by looking at his pictures, yes there should be many pictures, but i decide that without seeing him in real life. What is the big deal? Why should one actually SEE a person LIVE to determine that? Is it a man thing? Of course real life is so much better, more details, don't get me wrong here, please, but in my head it is 95% decided, I wouldn't keep writing to a person for so many months if I wasn't sure about this attraction. When you, men, look at pictures of models or beautiful women you know for sure you are attracted to her, that is without seeing her in real life, so how can it be different here? (let's put aside cases where women look so much more different than the pictures they sent to you)

This way or the other, the point is to find such a way where physical won't interfere too much and let you talk and communicate about everything with a sober head, not eyes, brain and something else blind with fantasy...

[AnastassiaAsh]

There is always more time to know each other in real life then through letters and at times this leads to disaster.

Mir, it seems you are right, but my reality tells me that living together before marriage is already disaster. More over in real life, with work and other responsibilities, you can meet with your girlfriend once or maybe twice a week, and then will you really discuss all these things people ususally talk about in letters to find out if they match each other for marriage? No, I don't think so, most of them will jump in bed, have dinner, go to movies, i don't know...Where is meaningful conversation? Why do something for a year or several and come to most often than not to a negative result (No, i don't want to marry her) rather than do this within 2 months with written letters touching fundamental stuff? Why rob yourself of time, emotions and yes, purity?

I agree with you, more introverted and shy people are prone to doing that, but this is what i like about men, I don't need some crazy extroverted always fun jumping up and down guy. I need a smart, wise, confident, calm guy...

[Misha]

And another thing, i can always see if i have chemistry with a man just by looking at his pictures, yes there should be many pictures, but i decide that without seeing him in real life. What is the big deal? Why should one actually SEE a person LIVE to determine that?

You can see if you find a man attractive, but can you see chemistry? I have my doubts.

The BBC has a wonderful piece on the science of love and attraction. One of the points they make: "It can take between 90 seconds and 4 minutes to decide if we fancy someone. But this has little to do with your smooth-talking. As far as attraction goes, here's how we get the message: 55% is through body language; 38% is the tone and speed of our voice; Only 7% is through what we say." Simply put, the "chemistry" is more than attraction and words. The link to the BBC report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/flirting.shtml

[Simoni]

Simply put, the "chemistry" is more than attraction and words.

Reading this thread, I can see we don't have the same definition of "chemistry."  It's not a new issue; we have discussed this before.

Gabaub, we agree on the definition.

Others seem to see chemistry as "lust," which it is not.  Sure, chemistry can include lust, but it is not the major ingredient.   

Chemistry is an attraction or affinity to the whole person, which includes their personality and mind, as well as body.  I'm with the crowd that says chemistry is instant.  You are either drawn to a person or not.

While it's true that the mind can win over and convince a person that they should be married because the two are "right for each other," and while these marriages do work, I'm in favor of holding out for that marriage that has chemistry, as well as logic.