Kiev Revisited

[Mir]

Well here I go again.
Unfortunately there are no direct flights to Kiev from the local airport. So a short hop to Amsterdam and then a 2.30 hours flight from there to Kiev. Flight was smooth but soon after takeoff from Amsterdam the in-flight entertainment started in the form of a very drunk Russian/Ukrainian man and two of his less drunk friends. This man started calling and abusing everyone who passed by his seat and he made suggestions to the airhostess as they hurried past. Soon the people around him were complaining, the crew and other passengers were trying to calm him down. Sitting next to me was a pretty girl who told me what was going on since I could not understand what he was saying. She was very upset and said that he was using very bad language and felt that he should be handcuffed or ejected from the plane. Eventually a half empty, one litre bottle of hard liquor was discovered from under his seat, and confiscated. So much so for the security check in at the airport.
The girl sitting next to me was from an area just outside Kiev but she has been living in London for 3 and a half years. The reason, well she is married to a Londoner (so another MOB). She was going to Kiev to see her parents. Her husband (not with her) was an interior designer; she hated London agreeing that it was far too busy to live. She told me as soon as her husband can sort out his work they will move out of London.   
The conversation turned to the reason of my visit to Kiev. So she heard my story and then she said ‘ You know at one time my husband (then boyfriend) had also complained that I am restrained in show of affection’ She said that in some ways girls (even younger ones) brought up in the old way are taught not to show too much affection, at least early in a relationship. Also at times having a foreign boyfriend can be a sort of stigma and some girls might find it a bit difficult to be all over their visiting boyfriends in public. Anyway that was her thoughts.
There were few other nice looking girls on the plane, one super-model type with her male escort who looked definitely gay!! One can’t blame them to go looking for American studs like TP and JB
The flight was 30 minutes late into Kiev, as I was in the window seat towards the back of the aircraft I had little chance of getting to the passport control before others and indeed there was a huge crowd queued up to go through immigration. 
The time spent in the queue was thirty bloody minutes. However they are now used to foreigners, at one time they used to ask about address in Kiev, now they don’t bother and just stamp the passport (still without any smile).
After collecting my luggage I headed out. Now some improvement, a green channel has been introduced (well it wasn’t there when I last visited). At that time everyone needed to go to the custom officer who asked two questions: ‘How much money in dollars have you got? And: What is the value of the gifts you are bringing? Well now you just got straight past the custom counters and out through arrivals door. As the door opened the entire traffic came to a halt. In front of me was a couple with two young children. The granddad had stationed himself right outside the door and while he individually hugged, kissed and cuddled the family everyone else stood and waited!
Finally I spotted the driver who was there to receive me. He said that he was getting worried something was wrong as I took too long to come out.
The weather outside was hot and sticky with overcast skies. I noticed that a terminal C has been added to the airport. The driver did not know what it is far (A is for domestic and B for international flights), but he thought it is for flying VIPs in and out of Kiev.
The journey to the centre was uneventful. The highway leading out from the airport is wide and mostly deserted. It does not have a pedestrian footpath yet I have always seen some pedestrians walking on the hard shoulder away or towards the airport.
I am sure everyone has noticed the multitude of apartment blocks as one drives towards central Kiev. It is a thing to remember that the majority if not all the women we meet in Kiev live in similar dwellings.
Gary and Sergie met me at the apartment to collect the balance and hand over the keys (Gary owns Kielet letting agency and Sergie is his manager). Both asked me why I have not been in Kiev for so long and how are things with Olga (the girl I used to visit in Kiev)?
Well after about an hour Olga arrived.
Now it is just after 12 midnight and she has just left.
We have had a long, long chat that included a meal at a nearby fast food joint.
In short she says that over the last few months instead of getting over the end of our relationship she has been missing me more and more! She thinks that while her personality is such that she can at times find it difficult to show gestures of affection in public I was also too impatient to end the relationship and move on. She swears that she has not seen anyone else since we broke up; also she had already told me that she only had one previous boyfriend (from age 17-21). She knew I had met other women in last few months and said that she felt very jealous and upset about this (is this good or is she a control freak?).
The bottom-line is that she wants us to give it another chance.
Tonight I have told her that I will think about it, I see no harm to meet her over the next few days and see how things develop. She says it is fine with her and there is no deadline for me to make any decision.
After that I walked her to a taxi and kissed her goodnight.
So that is where we are, she does have many good qualities, she is loyal (as far as I can tell), down to earth and humble. Not a woman, whose passion is buying as many pair of shoes as possible, prefers to browse books instead. Intelligent (Masters from top Kiev institute and fluent in Russian, Ukrainian, English, French and Polish), and does share my sense of humour (well most of the times).
The thing is that I am looking for something serious and I have no intentions (as a member here has suggested) to just have fun.
It will be interesting for me to read what the panel of experts has to say about this situation.


 

[Admin]

Mir,

Terminal C has been at Boryspil for many years. It is known as the "VIP Terminal", and it is, indeed, quite nice in comparison to either of the other terminals. To get to Terminal C requires passing a guard and having your reservation checked.

Rumor used to be that they speeded you through the Customs/Passport process both inbound and outbound. Not entirely true. When Olya and I were leaving Ukraine for her first trip to join me in the US, the Passport people gave her a hard time about the stamps in her passport when we had entered, and returned from, Poland just a few days earlier. They held her passport and were making calls until we were getting close to the time to depart, and at that time, I went to the people and imperiously told them in my best Russian to give her the passport. The lady said something else to the person on the phone, and promptly walked over and handed me the passport to give to Olya.

Anyway - my experience with Terminal C has been generally pretty good, and I've used it about half the time I've flown in or out. It won't prevent the airline from losing your bags - but the people filling out the forms to get them to you are nicer. You can sip on a beer (or soda) while waiting for them to get you through Customs coming in. And best - if someone is meeting you at the airport, THEY are much more comfortable sitting on nice sofas and munching a few snacks while in the A/C waiting area as you are clearing through Customs and such.

All this for about $100 per passenger (now).

FWIW

- Dan

[Mir]

The statue of St. Vladimir stands a watches, much in the same way that Vladimir himself watched as the entire population of Kiev (and hence the Slavonic nation) was baptised right there to become Eastern Orthodox.
The Slavonic tribes inhabited the land from the Black sea to the Baltic. The were teritorial and frequently at war with each other. The Scandanavians (Vikings) had been interacting with them through trade for many years. Among the Scandanavians(Vikings) the Norwegeans (Thor’s ancastors) and Danes went Westwards on their ships to ravage and trade with England, Scotland, Iceland, Ireland, France and Spain. The Swedes sailed on the great rivers South from the Baltic establishing trading posts including one at Kiev.
The Slavonic tribes sick of anarchy and lack of law and order in their lands invited the Vikings princes to rule over them, not common for people to invite another nation to become their overlords. Thus the Viking princes started the first great civilization of Eastern Slavs: Kievan Rus. At its zenith this was the largest kingdom in Europe streching from the shores of the Black sea to the Baltic sea.
Vladimir 1 the great became the rular of Kievan Rus in 980. The first few years he was the thorough pagan, he erected statues of various pagan gods outside Kiev where human sacrifice was offered to them (including children). Vladimir was also fond of a good time. He was totally overcome with lust for women and wine. He had many wives and in addition kept three hundrad concubines at Vyshorod, three hundred at Belhorod, and two hundred at Berestrovo. His apatite was insatiable and is said to seduce married women and violate young girls.
At some stage Vladimir decided that his people need an advanced religion. He decided to investigate the avialable great religions, initialy he was impressed by Islam, however when he found that he would have to give up wine he remarked: ‘Drinking is the joy of Russes and we cannot exist without this pleasure’. So we can understand the reason why Russian men are so fond of the drink. After rejecting Catholism he adopted the Orhodox religion and in 988 AD all the inhabitants of Kiev young and old were herded into the Dniper for perhaps the largest mass baptism of all times.
This certainly was a very important event, just imagine a Muslim Russia if he had decided otherwise.
There is no evidence that Vladimir changed his lifestyle after baptism, still he contribution to save such a large number of soles was considered to have much more weight then his vices and he became Saint Vladimir who is the patron saint of both Russians and Ukranians.

[Mir]

Thanks Dan, I guess I didn't notice it before.

Well tonight we are dining with Oksana and Sergei.
Oksana is one of Olga's best friends, she is a lawyer while her hissband Sergei is a driver working for a multinational. Certainly such a marriage across social status would not be common in the West.
They have a 2 year old daughter named Bohdana (rather heavy name for such a tender child), Olga is her god mother. Will that make me her godfather?
Anyway I better take the purgatives now to get ready for the feast, and also some paracetamol+ Rennies in advance(those who have been lucky enough to be invited to a traditional Ukrainian meal would understand).

[wiz]

It is pretty obvious that you are still very fond of her, you were then in 2005, and you hope that everything will be as you describe. I would suggest then accept her for what she is, enjoy the time together and if your relationship blossoms so much the better and I will be very happy to admit that I was wrong.

Have you asked her the question, now that she has finished her studies, would she be prepared to uproot and come to live up North, if your relationship blossoms?

It is only YOU who knows her well and can decide if you want to rekindle the relationship and make a go of it.

I can only tell you out of my own experience, if it feels good it’s most probably good.

I can only wish you Good luck.

[Mir]

Hey is there any way to escape when these Ukranians are trying to get you drunk (and suceeding)??"cx

[AnastassiaAsh]

Good report, Mir.

Showing of affection is a very old topic/problem. It depends. I suspect lots of 'studs' are so impatient and drop really good ladies just because they didn't even kiss them or something.... that can be a mistake, give a woman a brake, you are a foreigner and everything about you is still so much alien to her, if she doesn't give you what you want, it actually can be a good sign because it may mean she is serious and some time together should pass and that she won't do that with any other guy just because she likes him.

On the other hand, a lady who really likes you should be able to show you in lots of other ways how she cares: holding hands, hugging, being close, talking about these things, being committed in correspondence and tens of other things. You should feel it...Maybe it differers with the age of a woman, maybe it depends on how she was raised, maybe all together.

If this 'problem' occurs, just don't be fast looking negative at this, talk about it to her...

[Mir]

Well as expected it was quite a feast last night.
11 (or was it 12?) different dishes and 3 salads plus the everpresent khlib(bread). Wine, bear and vodka being drunk indiscriminately. I think the hosts primary task is to kill the guests by making them eat, while the men on the table keep filling your glass. Being wiser from my previous such experiences I was able to keep control of the situation and this morning I am very pleased that I did.
Our hosts live in a old style apartment located on the left bank. The parts of Kiev across the river are refereed as the 'sleeping districts' as people mostly work on the right bank and just go there to sleep. The apartment prices are increasing rapidly there as well. The building is old but the lift still works. The apartment has 4 rooms plus bathroom,kitchen and a balcony. One room had been cleared of all furniture, it had a portable stereo and so everyone proceeded to dance away. I know lots of people go to discos when they visit Ukraine but most of the Ukrainian people I have met prefer to dance at home (maybe it is because I have met middle class Ukrainians and not the elite Thor mingles with.
Later everyone sat on the balcony to chat and smoke. It is interesting that of the two couples present, the women smoked while the men didnot and infact looked at their wives's habit with distaste!
As usual a heated political discussen started between the men (one pro and other anti Russia). I could only follow the gestures:)
The party broke up around 2 AM.

[Mir]

Yesterday afternoon I was crossing the Kreschatyk (I was alone) through the underpass. As I descended the stairs I man ran past me, and dropped a plastic wallet with a stack if dollars inside. Instinctively I picked it up and called after him. As he turned and came towards me I realized that I am being trapped in a scam. I gave him the money, he extended his hand to shake my hand in thanks. I brushed it aside and briskly walked on and out of the other end of tunnel. I heard him shout spaseeba as I went along. In reflexion it is best not to pick up the money, or maybe to pick it up and run in the opposite direction but I am sure it will be fake anyway.

[Mir]

New churches continue to be built in Kiev. This one is called St Alexander, built 4-5 years ago and is located near the Mandarin plaza. There is another church of similar name in Kiev but that is a Catholic church.
Inside St Alexandr I found a shrine to the last Czar of Russia and his family!
I am told that the Czar and his entire family was canonized by the Orthodox church a few years ago.

[Mir]

Interestingly the Priest in charge is a Professor of Hematology at the University hospital.
He wanted to be a priest but had to become a doctor as it was not possible under Communists, after fall of Communism her trained as a priest.

[Mir]

Just beyond the South end of Kreschatyk stands TGI Fridays. One of the better US exports and reasonable place for a bite.
Steaks cost 75-130 UAH and beer 18 UAH.

[Mir]

And opposite TGI Friday a good, cheap and popular restaurant. Yes I have seen posh Ukrainians bringing their dates in there. The name I am told is simply; Ukrainian Food'
You can eat your fill for less the 100 UAH.

[Mir]

Everyone who knows about Ukraine knows about Kreschatyk.
I am told that in Russian the word Krest means a cross. In the past a river used to run where the street now exists, and the valley around the river was ‘crossed’ by many streams, so it was called Kreschatyk. Some say it signifies the transformation of Kiev from a pagan to a Christian society.
The buildings on both sides of the street were built from 1800 onwards; however the street itself was more a river of mud then a street. It was very difficult to cross from one side to the other; in fact It was only possible to cross Kreschatik with stilts or by specially built stone crossings. There were people called "bosyaki" (bear footed), who would carry people from one side of Khreschatyk to another for a fee. 
Towards the end of the 19th century a canal system was built to drain the water and the street was paved with granite blocks.
Hence the ‘bear foots’ became jobless but in recent years they have all opened ‘marriage agencies’ and now carry middle to elderly foreigners around in search of young brides
On weekends it becomes a pedestrian only area and thousands walk backwards and forwards on it.
Today a group of attractive female Ninjas was running amok on it.

[Kuna]

mir,

I'm enjoying your trip report...  especially the "every day photos" and street scenes...

I'm also glad you're enjoying your time there.

Cheers,

Kuna

[wiz]

Mir

Are you paying any attention to the Blond or you chasing other skirt?

Kreschatyk at the weekends if amazingly busy and you have good weather.......

[Mir]

On Friday while strolling along the river we reached the famous monument of the Founders of Kiev. There seemed to be a frenzy of marriages going on. The brides and grooms kept arriving in their limousines, as each couple emerged from the car a group of boys would sing a chores of good wishes for them, collected their money and moved to the next car. The wedding party would go to the monument, there they would have photographs and then toss the bouquet of flowers backwards into the ship. Sometimes it took them more then one attempt to do this. More photos followed and Champagne flowed. At regular intervals the people would chant what meant: ‘It’s sour’ the bride and groom would have to kiss to make it sweet. They had to kiss as long as the chant went on and sometimes ended up blue in face.
I got invited to share a glass of bubbly with one of the parties.
These days wedding season is in full swing in Kiev.
However the laws don’t provide much protection for the women.
Oksana told me that when she was on maternity leave her employer had no obligation to pay her anything; the government pays around $20 per month as maternity pay.
Another nice lady I met is divorced with one son aged six. She did not get divorced because her husband was a bad man but because he did not want more children (had 2 from a previous marriage). I asked her if he pays maintenance, and she days that by law the maintenance men require to pay is around $10 per month!
Getting divorce in Ukraine is dead simple.
So tonight we are going to another feast. This time to Andrew and Tanya’s house.
Tanya is an exceptional cook and in fact I have seriously thought about investing in a restaurant in Kiev with her as head chef and manager (she is an accountant by profession).

[Mir]

Well it has been sunny all day but now a shower has arrived.
On telly some concert is going on, and boy oh boy it is succession of long legged, blue eyed beauties showing their talent. No idea what they are singing but from their gestures it looks like it is something naughty.
Well we will be leaving for the dinner in 5-10 minutes. One good thing about Olga is that she does not take 2 hours to get ready and is done in 15 minutes!

[Gator]

Mir,

Thanks for the good travel photos and discussions of cuisine.  Maybe you should have posted this at Fodor's because RWD men visiting the FSU invariably mention interaction with women.   The frustrated women at Antidate need something to chew on.

You must be sharing an apartment if you know how long it takes for her to get ready.  UW/RW are deftly quick at applying makeup.  So we can only assume your discussions with Olga went well, well enough to not meet other women.

[Son of Clyde]

Very nice trip report Mir.

I believe Jack once posted about the wallet scam in Kiev.

Seems you did the honest thing and maybe this guy actually did drop his wallet.

If I ever retire to Ukraine, I would choose Kiev or Yalta.

[Hub]

On weekends it becomes a pedestrian only area and thousands walk backwards and forwards on it.

I have been on this street many times.  I never noticed people walking backwards.  Perhaps they only do this during early August?
Something to do with the heat?  :-))

[groovlstk]

And opposite TGI Friday a good, cheap and popular restaurant. Yes I have seen posh Ukrainians bringing their dates in there. The name I am told is simply; Ukrainian Food'
You can eat your fill for less the 100 UAH.

I've eaten here before, the name I was given in translation was "Ukrainian National Food." This is the real deal, I never had food as good anywhere in Ukraine or Russia as I did here.

[CaptB]

Gator,

You beat me to it! But you are a little more "subtle"........than I am. Mir.......nice travel photos, monologue on the history of Ukraine........"Fodors" would be proud. Most folks balance their report with discussions on how things are going.....with the woman they have come to see. Just a thought. 


Capt B

[Mir]

Well sometimes I have seen people ask for details about what they see on the trip.
For now I will stop the history trivia about the sights I am visiting but if anyone wants to read about it they can let me know.
As regards how things are comming along with the women? Well I am seeing only one woman and she is known to me for a few years.
I think most people agree that it is not appropriate to post a lot of details about interaction with the women.
Yes Gator things have been going very well. The lady has relaxed a lot as her personal circumstances have improved (finished education, has good job, mother settled etc.)
As we all know that a lot goes on in a relationship that is not visible to others. Take the example of Wiz and M's case. It was discused here in great detail yet I am sure Wiz would agree that we don't know a lot of details.
I certainly feel that this girl has the qualities that would make her a good wife, she has even started to learn cooking something she hated as she know how much I like to eat
So I am hopeful that good things will come out of this, but I am going to take my time and not rush into anything (yes no ring yet

[Mir]

No trip to Kiev is complete without a stroll down ‘Andriyivsky Uzviz’. The cobbled street is everyone’s favourite. In the past it was the Bohemian part of Kiev and penniless artists lived in the houses that line the street. Now it commands the most expensive property prices in Kiev! Incidentally property prices in Kiev are higher then many other better economies like Warsaw, Budapest and Prague etc.
I will not bore you with the history of these building and leave you with the sights.
Also at the end of the street is a good restaurant called ‘San Tori’