What age would be preferrable to RW?

[William3rd]

 

[WmGO]

Wow, another age gap debate, how original! 

As the question was asked by the social scientist I am directing my answer to her.

1. Virtually all agencies lie about this issue.

2. Most men involved in the FSUW pursuit fall for the lie and/or delude themselves into thinking that that which is unreasonable and unrealistic is somehow magically normal, or that they are somehow "the exception to the rule" (as a matter of fairness there are a few men here who have proven themselves to be such).

3. The only real way to know the truth to this question is to ask FSUW themselves who are NOT involved in making themselves available to WM. When doing so it will be found that the vast majority of Russian and Ukrainian women have absolutely no problem with 5 to 10 year age differences. This is considered normal and acceptable to them. It is still normal in America for their to be 5 to 7 year age differences. Most FSUW prefer to keep it at 12 or under, and many are ok with up to 15, but it is not their preference. It is after the 15 year mark that the vast majority of FSUW are not comfortable with and do not prefer such large differences, although there are a minority of FSUW that are comfortable with a 15 year and over age difference.

4.  This reality is reflected in FSUW agency sites as the past several years there is a noticeable trend downward amongst the women's stated preferences in terms of acceptable age differences.

[William3rd]

Reputable agencies for the most part will place age preferences on their profiles.

[ScottinCrimea]

WmGO,  What you say fits with my experience as well.

[Turboguy]

I too agree with that, even point 4.  10 years ago if you could walk and talk you were fair game for most any RW.

[Misha]

To get an idea of "ideal ages" you can search a Russian dating site such as singles.ru. Most women in the 18-24 age range prefer a man up to the age of 30 (up to 10 years age difference) and many will prefer a man up to the age of 35 (up to 15 years age difference). The ones who specify that they are interested in men aged "21-60" are usually looking for "clients" :-) That is not to say that a 40-year-old can't find and be happily married to a 20-year-old, but it is rarely a woman's ideal.

[SANDRO43]

Reputable agencies for the most part will place age preferences on their profiles.

That is not necessarily the mark of a reputable agency, when you see 18-80 y.o. as the acceptable range in some profiles .

On the other hand, over the past year or so I've noticed a constant increase in the number of 40+ y.o. FSUW placing their profiles on dating-agency sites (following a suggestion from their daughters  ?) . Considering:

and many are ok with up to 15

there's still hope for us 60+ WM .

[Maple Leaf]

I have taken some time to read some of the RW forums in Russian, and thought this thread discussed by RW could shed some light.  I tried using an online translator, so I hope this link is on topic with this discussion. 

Here is the link:

http://from-russia.flybb.ru/topic18.html

[Jazzyclassy]

I've read couple of thoughts and posts in this forum , they are mostly tolerant to 10 years of age gap , but not more even though talked about  many minus of such unions as well , so look around guys really

[jen]

I too agree with that, even point 4.  10 years ago if you could walk and talk you were fair game for most any RW.

Hi Turbo and all,
So you have observed that the "bar was lower," so to speak, for AM acceptable to RW a few years ago as compared to now? Why do you think that is the case? 

[Gator]

Jen,

Five years ago I met my first RW. I recently started a new search.  In comparing the two searches, I concur with the opinion that RW/UW are now much more selective.

IMO this derives from at least three key differences.

1.   The economy is a major factor and it has improved dramatically.  Not that all RW are seeing much better economic conditions relative to inflation; however, the RM are more optimistic, standing tall and proud.  RM have always represented the major competition.

2.   A large wave of “desperate” women have found someone or resigned themselves to the FSU (not saying that those who have married in this period were desperate; rather, the percentage of women who are desperate has declined).

3.   There is now some history with American men, both reports from friends who have married and moved to the USA as well as direct experience from dating AM. Some of this experience is negative, casting doubt upon whether AM are knights in shining armor or at least saying that home isn’t so bad.

There are still many RW currently listed with marriage agencies.  I found them in my target age range (40-47) to be fairly self-independent.  Many have raised their children as a single mama.  They now want a brand new life and have a good idea about the type of man who can provide it.   Most of these women make enough income to support themselves so that they can wait for Mr. Right without reluctantly taking Mr. Question Mark. 

BTW, many of the currntly listed women have sworn off RM forever, even if the men do have more money.  They do not even date RM.  That is what many RW told me.

Meeting women in America is easier.  All you have to do is:

1.  Show up.
2.  Act normal.

[KenC]

Hi Turbo and all,
So you have observed that the "bar was lower," so to speak, for AM acceptable to RW a few years ago as compared to now? Why do you think that is the case? 

(Gator, you beat me to the punch here)

jen,
Two reasons: economy and exposure.  Russia's economy is growing and so is it's middle class.  Back in 98 when I first visited Russia, most young RM simply could not afford to have a wife, let alone a family.  The poor economics also made Internet communication much more difficult than it is today.  Today I see the MOB business shifting away from Russia toward Ukraine, but the next frontiers are the Stans and the more impoverished FSU countries IMO.

The exposure idea works on both sides of the pond.  Here there is just much more awareness to RW.  Again, in 98, most Americans pictured RW as 300 LBS, toothless farm women with scarfs on their heads.  More and more fsuw have been exposed to the potential of an international relationship.

I really do see the "walls" tumbling down in the future regarding international marriages.  When I was newly divorced and reintroduced into the dating game (circa 93), the Net was the new and yet unknown way to meet women.  A lot of people thought it was the strangest thing in the world to meet a woman via the Net.  Now they have prime time commercials for such sites.  It will take time, but some time in the future having a foreign wife (or husband) will be ho hum information.
KenC

[William3rd]

Jen- I saw the changes in Russia starting in about 2001-2002.

I worked with agency tours. Economics and employment improved in Russia and so did the criteria of the women. Add the steady influx of sex tourists on the tour circuit and engagements plummeted from probably close to 85-90% on any given tour to about 20% or even lower today.


I was going to send you a copy of my manuscript. Did you PM me your business email address?

[jen]

Hi W3rd,

Oops, I thought you had it already -- I'll PM it to you.

Re: the observations about how the "bar has risen" for AM in Russia over the past few years...have you also observed any changes over time in the men who decide to go? (how many, but also what their expectations are, etc.?)

thanks, j.

[Hub]

Any good researcher in the social sciences knows that what people say is not nearly as reliable as what people do.

e.g. You can ask people if they plan to buy product X or Y.

But later, the actual sales of products X and Y typically bear no relationship to the projected sales based on what people said they were going to buy.

e.g. Think back to the Coke formula fiasco.  In taste tests, people said they liked the proposed sweeter new formula better than classic coke.  But later, the sales of new coke plummeted and coke brought back the classic formula.  What people said they would buy did not correspond with what they actually bought.

In this vein, one can gain little knowledge by asking RW/UW what is the acceptable age gap.  Better to view what is actually being done; i.e. what are the age gaps that have existed and are currently being produced.

I remember back in my high school days there were several instances in which a girl said she found guy X disgusting.  But guess what; later she was going steady with the guy.  What made the difference; the guy actually asked for a date.  Talk is cheap; once action is taken, the tune often changes.  It is easy and fun to brag that you wouldn't do such and such; if you have never been asked to do it anyway.

Name your favorite most beautiful movie star and I will brag to you that I would not go on a date with her.  I can feel pretty confident in my smug remarks because there isn't a snowballs chance in hell anyway. But what do you think would happen if by some strange quirk she actually asked me to go on a date?

I am not arguing for large age gaps.  I am arguing for logical and rational discussion and analysis.  If one wants to know what age gap is acceptable then look at existing age gaps.  If one wants to know if the situation is changing; then do a time series analysis of the age gaps from newly created marriages over the years.

[SANDRO43]

FWIW, an off-the-cuff statistic based on the FSUW listed on today's newsletter from Lava Place:

Number of FSUW: 18
FSUW age range: 20-36 y.o.
Average of acceptable min WM age difference: - 0.4
Average of acceptable max WM age difference: + 15.4

Thus, these 18 FSUW consider acceptable an average age difference of 8 years.

[Gator]

The median is a better measure for such observations, and it is 11.

[Shadow]

Of course a lot of men want to know the mail adress of that one who would take guys up to 80 years.

[Turboguy]

Of course a lot of men want to know the mail address of that one who would take guys up to 80 years.

Well, If I was still looking, by the time I got to that age she would be too old for me anyway.

More seriously I have mixed feelings about if it is or isn't getting harder and if the gals are or are not getting more selective.

I do think there are scores more men going and searching for a wife there and that does make more competion for the available women.   I do think the guy searching are getting younger and higher quality.  Of course maybe I am just getting older and it is all relative.

Early on I seemed to run into a lot more scammers.  Perhaps I just got smarter because it did not seem to be much of a problem later in my search.   I will say that my days of the big agency tours were filled with scammers.   I have one friend who still goes on lots of AFA tours and he seems to still run into nothing but scammers.   He just came back from one with a horror story. 

I do know that the quality of women I met later on in my search was much better than earlier.   Some of that may have been me getting a little wiser and more experience.  I don't know what the situation will be in another 5-10 years but there are still a lot of good women out there.   Are they more selective?   Well, I think the desperate ones are not there any more but that may not be all bad.

[robertjay]

I have read all 25 pages thus far about peoples opinions on the preferrable age of a man for Russian women. I would like to say thank you to the women who have posted. What they have stated was honest and sincere and many posters, men of course did not like many of the answers, because it did not justify there personal relationships so they seemed offended.
Love between two people no matter the age difference is a joy to hear about. An opinion of who is older than who and what is preferrable, is called choice. When the choice is made, those people who agree or disagree will have no bearing on the success of the relationship. This can only be decided by those two people who have fallen in love. So the answer to this question of what age would be preferrable to a Russian women ? It comes down to CHOICE, as it would for any women or man. 
I am not an expert and do not claim to be, as many others have stated there opinion, mine is just added to the pile.
Best Regards,
Robertjay

[Turboguy]

I don't think even one of us minds that they perfer someone close to their age.  It is thier choice and I can understand the logic to it.  I think the only thing we disagree with is that they seem to feel they know what is right for everyone else.   It is a choice and each person has the right to make a happy life or to make thier own mistakes and pay the price for thier own stupidity if it does turn out wrong. 

[jen]

Any good researcher in the social sciences knows that what people say is not nearly as reliable as what people do.

In this vein, one can gain little knowledge by asking RW/UW what is the acceptable age gap.  Better to view what is actually being done; i.e. what are the age gaps that have existed and are currently being produced.

I am not arguing for large age gaps.  I am arguing for logical and rational discussion and analysis.  If one wants to know what age gap is acceptable then look at existing age gaps.  If one wants to know if the situation is changing; then do a time series analysis of the age gaps from newly created marriages over the years.

Fair enough. I would not read this thread and then make an argument such as, "Thus, the acceptable age gap is X and that is what people do."  But I can learn a lot here about some of the ideas people have about the issue, the experiences they have had, the differences of opinion that exist, and how people express those opinions. That is really why I am here -- I only learn so much about "real life" relationships from this board, but I can learn a lot about the discussions that are happening in this community and why people feel strongly about them. There are lot of speculative statistics out there, but much less that takes into account how people think and feel about international marriages...

That being said, any polls or statistics you scare up from earlier threads, etc., will be very welcome.  Of course I will find these myself, but I haven't made it through the voluminous archives yet.

Thanks, J.

[BillyB]

Jen, I did not read hardly any of this thread so somebody might have a similar reponse. If you want to see what FSU women list as acceptable age for a partner, go to dating sites where women are less influenced by an agency who would tell them to fluff up the numbers. A couple of dating sites are bride.ru, freepersonals.ru, and love.mail.ru

Keep in mind, some agencies do put a few of their women on these sites and scammers have profiles so they will target men much older than they list themself so age preferences aren't completely accurate.

On these sites, you will find 18 yo girls looking for men 18-20 yo. Those ladies will probably never find a serious, marriage minded young foreign male and will be up'ing their age requirements in a male soon. You will also find 18 yo women who are looking for men 10 or more years older than themselves. One 19 yo came on the forum and she was looking for men 30-45. I ask her "why?". She said it was because she though younger men were too immature for her. There are many women like her who will accept a man 10 or more years older and be comfortable with it.

There is a poll here that showed the age difference of men who are married and engaged to a RW. 90% of the men here had ladies 10 or more years younger than themselves and most people here have a decent head on their shoulders and are happily married or engaged.

I wrote to hundreds of women without looking too much at their profile. I ended up writing women much younger and older than me. I was over the maximum age limit of one woman by 11 years and she expressed interest in me. I was also under the minimum age limit of one woman by 4 years and she expressed interest in me.