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[jb]

bear,

guess I'm lucky you didn't violate my civil rights when we met,,, but then I did buy lunch.  Wait'll I tell my friends I bribed a cop with a free lunch,that ought to get them thinkin'.

[Shadow]

bear,

guess I'm lucky you didn't violate my civil rights when we met,,, but then I did buy lunch.  Wait'll I tell my friends I bribed a cop with a free lunch,that ought to get them thinkin'.

Tell your Russian friends and they will say "what's new" 

[Misha]

Just to amplify what another has said.  Learning about the culture and local conditions is far more important than learning to speak the language.  I know that many people here might strongly disagree with me.  However, most women in the FSU have been learning English since they were 8 years old.  You will never be able to match their fluency.  Also, English is a much easier language to learn.  It doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but, if I were devote some time to planning a trip to Russia or the FSU, I would recommend that you focus on understanding of local conditions.

Todd

Most women? I disagree. Most women did learn a second language, but sometimes it was English, sometimes German, occasionally French. However, the training was rarely intense and usually only in the specialized language schools do students reach any level of real fluency. As for English being a much easier language to learn, I don't quite agree with that. Having come home many times with my wife in tears because she feels she is not making any progress learning English, I can attest to the fact that learning English can be quite the struggle.

[acrzybear]

bear,

guess I'm lucky you didn't violate my civil rights when we met,,, but then I did buy lunch.  Wait'll I tell my friends I bribed a cop with a free lunch,that ought to get them thinkin'.

 JB

 You've been aound the globe once or twice and have a pretty good idea how things work.  If you feed a bear, then he's too busy to pay attention to anything else Also something I've learned over the years-the older one gets the less fair they fight

[catzenmouse]

Most women? I disagree. Most women did learn a second language, but sometimes it was English, sometimes German, occasionally French. However, the training was rarely intense and usually only in the specialized language schools do students reach any level of real fluency. As for English being a much easier language to learn, I don't quite agree with that. Having come home many times with my wife in tears because she feels she is not making any progress learning English, I can attest to the fact that learning English can be quite the struggle.

English has to be the most f'ed up language for anyone to learn. Rules? Yeah right, they change depending up the word, the sentence, the meaning. Why don't comb and tomb sound the same? Why are lead (as in being in front) and lead (as in the metal) the same? What about all those stupid silent letters? Nife instead of knife? At least when you speak Russian the letters don't play games with you. Now the cases and genders... well that is what makes it hard... oh yeah and the proper vs. familiar uses and then all the "tender" forms of words. Yeah, Russian is hard to learn but English just doesn't make sense in how it is used so that makes it really hard for anyone from a foreign country.

JMHO,
 Ken

[jb]

Ken,

You make a great point.  There are a great many English words I puzzle over in literary usage, and I'm a native speaker.  My wife has been here about 4+ years, she spoke excellent English for a new immigrant when she got here, and still stumbles at some sentences when she reads.

English is much tougher than a lot of folks think.

[ScottinCrimea]

I would tell my students that one difference between the two languages is that with Russian, there are a lot of rules and they follow them 100%.  With English, there aren't so many rules, and we break them all.

Still, experts agree that Russian is a much more difficult language to master than English.  While schools in Ukraine typically offer a choice of foreign languages to their students, the vast majority choose to study English.  Thus, even though they don't become proficient, they at least have a basis for learning it.  That and the exposure they have to English in the media and in advertising make it easier to pick it up later in life if necessary.  Just think about how many Russian words you had ever heard before you became interested.

And when they do learn, I find that their grammar is much better than the typical American.  For example, you will never hear a Russian say, "I seen...",  instead of "I saw..."

[Lit_1nce]

I've taken some lessons in 3 different languages.. Lithuanian, German, and Polish. Got the farthest with German.
The hardest part for me is always the "gender thing". (all 3 of them have it)

The English language has very few examples of the gender nouns.. Lke these german ones ...

der wein (masculine)
die milch (feminine)
das beer (neuter)

So wine is manly, milk is for girls, and beer is for everyone !

If they made some kind of sense (these 3 almost do) it would sure be a lot easier.   

BTW .. I listened to a Russian lesson and my brain shut down.. although, I'll probably try again one of these days.

[Misha]

I would tell my students that one difference between the two languages is that with Russian, there are a lot of rules and they follow them 100%.  With English, there aren't so many rules, and we break them all.

Still, experts agree that Russian is a much more difficult language to master than English.  While schools in Ukraine typically offer a choice of foreign languages to their students, the vast majority choose to study English.  Thus, even though they don't become proficient, they at least have a basis for learning it.  That and the exposure they have to English in the media and in advertising make it easier to pick it up later in life if necessary.  Just think about how many Russian words you had ever heard before you became interested.

And when they do learn, I find that their grammar is much better than the typical American.  For example, you will never hear a Russian say, "I seen...",  instead of "I saw..."

Who exactly are the experts? It is true that there is much more exposure to English in Ukraine or Russia (or anywhere else in world) than Russian or Ukrainian. HOWEVER, I think it is important for all to understand that if a woman does not speak English fluently before arriving to the United States, Canada or Great Britain, it will be a long and difficult adaptation until she learns to speak the language with ease. It may even take a couple of years before she becomes very fluent. This period will be very difficult for her and by extension her husband. It is important not to underestimate the difficulties involved and to be fully prepared for them in my opinion.

[ScottinCrimea]

Okay, I did some research and something I thought I knew was wrong.  First let me say that we all should be happy we're not dating Basque women because it is the general consensus that this is the most difficult language.  Of the European languages, German and English are considered numbers one and two in difficulty, which makes sense because they are both Germanic languages.  Russian is actually not considered to be as difficult as English.

Now you must NEVER discuss this with your Russian bride, because it will put you in a tough spot.  They take great pride in the idea that Russian is a difficult language and if you claim otherwise they will be very offended.  Also, if you assert that Russian is easier to learn than English, they will question why you are not doing a better job of learning Russian.

Actually I think their exposure to English and our lack of exposure to Russian plays a big role, but the bottome line is that we have to give them a lot of credit.  My wife also spoke of the times she was in tears trying to learn English.

[Misha]

Okay, I did some research and something I thought I knew was wrong.  First let me say that we all should be happy we're not dating Basque women because it is the general consensus that this is the most difficult language.  Of the European languages, German and English are considered numbers one and two in difficulty, which makes sense because they are both Germanic languages.  Russian is actually not considered to be as difficult as English.

Now you must NEVER discuss this with your Russian bride, because it will put you in a tough spot.  They take great pride in the idea that Russian is a difficult language and if you claim otherwise they will be very offended.  Also, if you assert that Russian is easier to learn than English, they will question why you are not doing a better job of learning Russian.

Actually I think their exposure to English and our lack of exposure to Russian plays a big role, but the bottome line is that we have to give them a lot of credit.  My wife also spoke of the times she was in tears trying to learn English.

I speak Russian fluently, so my wife can't question why I am not doing a better job of learning the language, but she still gets angry with me because it is my fault that I do not speak English to her as she would learn English faster lol.

However, you are right about Russian conceptions about their language. They invest a lot into the belief that their language cannot be truly learned by foreigners, that foreigners can never truly understand the Russian Soul and that Russian literature is by far the greatest :-)

However, I believe that it is important that both parties (husband and future Russian wife) understand what they are getting into and the challenges they will face, including language issues.

Speaking of which, how long did it take your wife to get over her frustrations in learning English?