Need advice for an old friend

[Turboguy]

Frankly BC, I think that observation is meaningless.   

1.  I believe many of those who are in an age gap marriage and are happy would not hesitate a minute to do it again.  I also think they feel they have no special circumstances such as being so rich that the young woman married them for their money or having such tremendous animal magnetism that every woman who looks at them falls in love.   I think it is in part being conservative, that even though they might brag about some things they don't feel that is something to brag about.  If they did it would put their wife in the "trophy wife" category like someone might brag about a son who just completed his masters at MIT. 

I think also they don't want to lead someone down a path that could lead to disaster.   When I was a kid I remember standing on a bridge railing with a 100 foot drop below.   I might have been stupid enough to do that at 10 but I would not have encouraged my friends to do so.  (they did anyway).   

Frankly, I am one of the ones who say they would not recommend it for others yet when I hear the young women spout off the reasons it is bad and can't work about 85% of what they say I can not relate to from my experiences.   I am talking about the different stage of life things, the communication things.   Do I find it has additional challenges or difficulties compared to a relationship without an age gap.  Not in the tiniest way.   It is one of the easiest and most natural relationships I have been in.   Frankly I think If I looked for a relationship with virtually no age gap it would be a recipe for disaster.   Perhaps I could find a woman 5 or 10 years younger who would appeal to me physically but I would be concerned that she would be very set in her ways and have a great difficulty leaving her family and friends and adapting to life in a new country.   People tend to get more set in their ways as they pass through life.

2.  I am not sure what you are saying here.  Lots of people who post here have lived in such a marriage.  I am not talking about this particular case where he wants children but the age difference part.   Actually to me the reverse is true.   Those who are so dead set that it is horrible have no first hand experience.

[KenC]

Sorry Turbo,
You are full of it (again).  BC's comment:

1. Those that have lived in such marriages for a while are the first to deter others from following their footsteps.

is right on the money!

I am the first person here to try to dissuade guys from entering into age gap marriages.  After 9 years with Lena, I know from first hand experience just how difficult it is and how rare it is for a couple to pull it off.  I have frequently used the term "abberation" in describing our happy marriage.  The only thing that could possibly make it work is love to be honest.  Unfortunately, it all looks like love going in and only time will expose the truth.  No "business" deal type marriages will be happy and are doomed from the start IMO.

BC,
One of my dearest friends is in an age gap marriage of 25 years difference.  Both are Americans, and I leaned heavily on his opinions before I made my final decision.  He is now in his mid 70's and they have had some where around 20 blissful years together.

The acceptable age difference will always be a subjective matter.  IMO a 15 year difference is about as far as one should reasonably stretch things in a RW/AM marriage.  Lena and I took a huge gamble at 25 and 40 just sounds completely unrealistic to me.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Heck Ken I didn't say I wasn't full of it.   I just threw out some thoughts for comment.   Some of my ideas are full of it just like everyone else's. 

Ken, tell me some examples of things you have gone through that have made it difficult.  I can't believe that if someone actually calls her your daughter it is going to phase you much?   She doesn't strike me as someone who wants to party around the clock while you sit home in your easy chair with a shawl over you watching reruns of Golden Girls.  I would almost guess if there was a party you would be the one hard to keep up to.   Family issues?  Blood is thicker than water.  If there are problems there, they existed before romance came into the picture.   Having friends different ages?  You don't need to share friends and in my case I have a feeling the people she would choose as friends are the same ones I would choose.  She has no physical attraction towards you?  Sure doesn't sound like it in the post. 

I have to speculate at this stage.  Yes we have a lot of time behind us but hopefully lots more is ahead.  So far the difficulties for us have not even peaked around the corner.

So tell me Ken,  Do you advise people against an age gap marriage because you realize you have been through such horrible difficulties that you lay sleepless at night, or do you do it because you don't want to see someone make a mistake with their life because you gave them bad advice and with the realization that you case "COULD" be special an unique because of the two individuals you both are?  If you picked the last one then are you not saying you have no real firsthand knowledge that it is really that difficult any more so than any marriage to a RW.

Personally I have no idea what difficulties there are or are not in an age gap relationship.   What ever does happen I am prepared to deal with in the best way I can.   If it is damm tough, I picked the course, I will sail through the storm with all the determination I can raise.   We have now spent about 4 months together or so and the only storm I have seen so far is having a good strong wind at my back.  Maybe 10 years from now I can talk about the subject with some expertise.  Right now I agree with you.  Even though I have not seen any problems I would still tell others to use a lot of caution before getting into a relationship with a large age gap.

[William3rd]

A few less beans in your diet will take care of that problem that you have with that strong wind at your back, turbo.

[BC]

Sorry Turbo,
You are full of it (again).  BC's comment:is right on the money!

I am the first person here to try to dissuade guys from entering into age gap marriages.  After 9 years with Lena, I know from first hand experience just how difficult it is and how rare it is for a couple to pull it off.  I have frequently used the term "abberation" in describing our happy marriage.  The only thing that could possibly make it work is love to be honest.  Unfortunately, it all looks like love going in and only time will expose the truth.  No "business" deal type marriages will be happy and are doomed from the start IMO.

BC,
One of my dearest friends is in an age gap marriage of 25 years difference.  Both are Americans, and I leaned heavily on his opinions before I made my final decision.  He is now in his mid 70's and they have had some where around 20 blissful years together.

The acceptable age difference will always be a subjective matter.  IMO a 15 year difference is about as far as one should reasonably stretch things in a RW/AM marriage.  Lena and I took a huge gamble at 25 and 40 just sounds completely unrealistic to me.
KenC

KenC,

With 17 years difference here, for a couple months per year 18, I'll be the first to admit that at 47/30 it's quite 'sweet' right now. That doesn't mean though that we don't have a helluva lot of work cut out for us in the years ahead. Unlike many others, I'll admit that I get more grey every day, older every year, that my appearance and health will decline and that chances are my wife will eventually end up caring for me when advanced decrepitude hits (and it will).

I had a tough time deciding if this was right for 'us'.  There were three factors that weighed in and tipped the scales:

1. I should be able to live long enough and reasonably provide for our children until they are young adults and capable of sustaining themselves.  My 'at home' work environment (yes, also has drawbacks) allows me to participate in my kids life tenfold over when I was younger and punching a timeclock.
2. We didn't have the slightest idea we would meet and marry.  The attraction was mutual, no strings attached and no overt im/emigration related agenda.
3. My wife had a history of long term relationships with older men and had previously provided care for elderly, terminal family members.

In other words, we both knew and accepted what we were getting into, what is inevitable, and discussed all future implications down to 'what if' sexual issues. 

To be quite honest Ken, a few years ago if we would have met I would have said 'wow.. what a lucky guy!.. I'd like that too..' maybe even sign up for a social or two.. but knowing what I know now, I'll just tip my hat and appreciate the enormous amount of effort and devotion I know you two are putting into your relationship.

For us.. 17 is pushing the envelope.. 25 is stretching the to absolute limits of what I believe is 'remotely possible' - but 'no thank you' from me.. thereafter, simply flirting with disaster.

JIMHO, and FWIW

[BC]

Turbo,

Just a quick question..

Why are you so defensive?

I have found many times in life that when I act defensively, there is something within myself I need to look at a bit more closely.

Just food for thought.

Cheers!

[KenC]

Heck Ken I didn't say I wasn't full of it.   I just threw out some thoughts for comment.   Some of my ideas are full of it just like everyone else's. 

Ken, tell me some examples of things you have gone through that have made it difficult.  I can't believe that if someone actually calls her your daughter it is going to phase you much?   She doesn't strike me as someone who wants to party around the clock while you sit home in your easy chair with a shawl over you watching reruns of Golden Girls.  I would almost guess if there was a party you would be the one hard to keep up to.   Family issues?  Blood is thicker than water.  If there are problems there, they existed before romance came into the picture.   Having friends different ages?  You don't need to share friends and in my case I have a feeling the people she would choose as friends are the same ones I would choose.  She has no physical attraction towards you?  Sure doesn't sound like it in the post. 

I have to speculate at this stage.  Yes we have a lot of time behind us but hopefully lots more is ahead.  So far the difficulties for us have not even peaked around the corner.

So tell me Ken,  Do you advise people against an age gap marriage because you realize you have been through such horrible difficulties that you lay sleepless at night, or do you do it because you don't want to see someone make a mistake with their life because you gave them bad advice and with the realization that you case "COULD" be special an unique because of the two individuals you both are?  If you picked the last one then are you not saying you have no real firsthand knowledge that it is really that difficult any more so than any marriage to a RW.

Personally I have no idea what difficulties there are or are not in an age gap relationship.   What ever does happen I am prepared to deal with in the best way I can.   If it is damm tough, I picked the course, I will sail through the storm with all the determination I can raise.   We have now spent about 4 months together or so and the only storm I have seen so far is having a good strong wind at my back.  Maybe 10 years from now I can talk about the subject with some expertise.  Right now I agree with you.  Even though I have not seen any problems I would still tell others to use a lot of caution before getting into a relationship with a large age gap.

Turbo,
I think you're protesting a bit too much for an innocent man.  I didn't direct my comments regarding age gaps to you at all except to correct your misleading points regarding the general advice being administered here regarding such marriages.  I have seen most age gap marriages fail over the years.  I have never experienced another couple with the same age gap or more than Lena and I have success.  In fact I would say that most of the RW/AM couples we have met over the years seem to have an agenda other than love to be honest.  I do think that we are blessed here at RWD with an inordinate amount of couples truly in love.

As for the rest of your post, I will take my own advice that I gave up thread:

Kevin,
As a friend tell him the truth about your opinion and then just shut up as he will do what he wants anyway.  Just don't feed his rationalizations, because that is what he is really seeking.
KenC

Turbo, you are nuts to even think that your marriage will be solid for very long.  It has always smacked of a business negotiation between you and VWRW.  You get a sweet hot bod for mentoring her into her new business.  But like most old fools, you have not thought about what will happen after she can stand on her own two legs in this country.  You will have outlived your usefulness and she will be gone.  She sure as hell will be out of Beaver Falls at the first chance.  Then again maybe it is all worth it for you for the few years you will have her.

As I said in my advice to Kevin, I do not expect to deter you from your grand plan and the best of luck to you.  Just don't come here and tell us that there is no age gap problems OK?  No one is going to buy that crap.
KenC

[I/O]

Around we go again in the age gap thing.  BC's version of it strikes the closest chord with me as the difference is almost exactly as ours is. 17 years and for 14 days each year it is 18 years. They are a bit older than us but not that much in the scheme of things. Many of the same questions he and his wife apparently discussed prior are almost identical to the discussions mine and I have been through ........about a million times.

I am not yet married, however I can see a bit regarding these larger age gaps, it is phriggen hard.  Anyone, married or not who tries to tell otherwise is NOT in a real relationship or has not gotten to the stage of seeing what is happening. Contrary to popular opinion, it seems sex CAN make you blind.

Turbo, you are a helluva nice guy in many ways as I have gleaned from these forums and you probably don't deserve this, but as my act of kindness , I would like to introduce you to your long lost cloned brother.  See below.

I/O

[Zhena]

Back to the main topic subject...
I would give an advice to an author of topic,not to his friend-just leave him alone and let him to do what he wants to do,hes a big boy and knows all the risks I bet. Though still he wants to do that-so let him. Its only his business and noone elses. I understand the people in general dont understand this and think its silly at least-and judge negatively the old fool who wants to buy a young body. And everyone thinks he will end up bad. She will take away all his money and find someone else etc. But who knows for certain what will happen? Who can say with 100% that she will leave him within 3 years? Who can say its impossible to have the kids at 67? Maybe its kinda late,but still possible. What if his young wife will admire him cos of his wiseness and security he will provide for her? Yes,that happens very rare,but happens that a young girl loves her old husband-and even admire him. You never know. Yes,the people will be negative about them,but if nobody cares-go ahead. So I think,the best will be not to interfere and convince the old friend to change his plans-I doubt he will listen,also he thinks he will be secure with a prenup. There is a good will from both sides. Just let him to do that and see what happens. But never take a responsibility to interfere in someones private life.

[Turboguy]

Turbo,
Just a quick question..

Why are you so defensive?

I was not trying to be defensive BC.   I was inquisitive.   I would say curious but that is what killed the cat.  

I am in a "waiting for the other shoe to drop" stage lets say.   I keep hearing about the problems people run into and perhaps I would like to know what difficulties to expect since I have not run into any yet.  I was just groping for more details.

Turbo,
I think you're protesting a bit too much for an innocent man. 

As for the rest of your post, I will take my own advice that I gave up thread:Turbo, you are nuts to even think that your marriage will be solid for very long.  It has always smacked of a business negotiation between you and VWRW.  You get a sweet hot bod for mentoring her into her new business.  But like most old fools, you have not thought about what will happen after she can stand on her own two legs in this country.  You will have outlived your usefulness and she will be gone.  She sure as hell will be out of Beaver Falls at the first chance.  Then again maybe it is all worth it for you for the few years you will have her.

As I said in my advice to Kevin, I do not expect to deter you from your grand plan and the best of luck to you.  Just don't come here and tell us that there is no age gap problems OK?  No one is going to buy that crap.
KenC

Ken, I have thoughts of what your relationship is like with your wife and what your life is like.  Probably I am right on some of it and probably have some serious misconceptions.   I have a little better view of my relationship with VWRW than you do and I have my opinions.   Beaver Falls has one person of fame, and as far as I know there is only one.  That is Joe Namath who grew up a 2 minute walk from where I am sitting.   Joe, AKA Broadway Joe has one thing he is famous for and that is guaranteeing the Super Bowl win when they were heavy underdogs.  I am not that brash.  If I thought it would not work I would not be doing it.  VWRW and I are a lot more right for each other than you might think but time will tell.  Ten years from now if we still have a happy wonderful marriage then I can say I told you so.   Only time will answer which of us was right.  

My whole reason for asking is what I said before.  I keep hearing vague comments about how tough an age gap marriage is and I was trying to dig into the topic a bit more.   I don't question that 20 years from now the age difference might have serious impact.  That part I can buy.  Then again maybe not but we have discussed the future a lot and are dealing with it.  

My whole point is that everyone says there are problems but no one says much about what they are.   I am just trying to learn more about what may be ahead.

Zhena,  Good post.

[Zhena]

To be honest,deep inside I may not accept as the most of people,such an age gap. I may not also accept when the people marry after 1 meeting and when a fiancee doesnt speak any english. But the people do that,and in some cases it works-so its possible. So now if I see such a couple-with a huge difference,or no common language,or something else-I try to control my emotions and just accept the people how they are-and dont judge. I dont know what brought them together-only they know. And its absolutely their business.

[Muj]

Kevin,

Is fit and able to care of himself?
Can he support the child and himself in any case?
Are both partners of soild mind and non abusive?  
If yes to all of the above then allow the adults to proceed with no extraordinary criticism.  You have your point of view and he is sure to respect you viewpoint.
Of far as the child, does anyone ask the child of a deceased elderly parent if he/she would rather not been born?

[ScottinCrimea]

We have now spent about 4 months together or so and the only storm I have seen so far is having a good strong wind at my back. 

You are right in admitting you still lack time to claim any expertise.  Four months is not nearly enough time to know in which direction the wind will change.  All that is guaranteed is that it will indeed change.

[ScottinCrimea]

Of far as the child, does anyone ask the child of a deceased elderly parent if he/she would rather not been born?

How about asking the child of a deceased parent if he had wished his father could have been there to see him graduate, be married, get to know his grandchildren...?

[KenC]

To be honest,deep inside I may not accept as the most of people,such an age gap. I may not also accept when the people marry after 1 meeting and when a fiancee doesnt speak any english. But the people do that,and in some cases it works-so its possible. So now if I see such a couple-with a huge difference,or no common language,or something else-I try to control my emotions and just accept the people how they are-and dont judge. I dont know what brought them together-only they know. And its absolutely their business.

Zhena,
Another good post.  I agree with you that it is only "their" business until they come on an open forum and begin to tell misleading stories.  We (the more experienced members here) have an obligation to dispell such untruths about this process as we see them so as to not mislead the many inexperienced members reading for guidance.  At least that is how I see it.
KenC

[jb]

My whole point is that everyone says there are problems but no one says much about what they are.

LOL,,,, the problem is that in a few short months or years you will not be able to perform a husband's duty at 66+ y.o., and a wife of 28 y.o. will want a little more,,, shall we say,,, physical satisfaction.   Do you need someone to draw pictures on a blackboard for you?

The Mexicans have a name for that guy... His name is Sancho.  If you find some shoes in the closet which do not fit, you will know that Sancho has been visiting.  OMG~! you are such an idiot.

[neo]

OMG is the old boy micheal douglas??

Well my opinion is your friend is a randy old goat whos clearly sniffed too much rocket fuel on his nasa experimentations and has got alzheimers. i would say if he owes you any money get it now before his family do the decent thing and cart him off to the old boys home.

Am i the only person who didnt just figure what hes not telling us is that the old lads "string of admirers" are likely to be the same "string of admirers" all businessmen seem to attract while staying in hotels????

we all know how it goes, the phonecalls to your room by strrange ladies, the girls hanging round the corridors and lobby....come on nobody is telling me that he just HAPPENED upon a string of 20 something girls who were literrally just JUMPING at the op to throw their knickers at a passing pensioner?????

or did he "neglect" to mention any sort of fiscal reward that may have passed hands during these string of encounters and he is a daft enough old grave dodger to have fooled himsels into the fact hes just giving his young friend a bit of pocket money to run off and buy some sweets with and hes not really paying her to shag a corpse.

Sorry, but thick on maybe.

But if anyone doesnt think he's gone senile and about to start weeing into potplants in banks for his notion that this 20 something ultra natasha is waiting to spring his genetetically altered in a nasa area 51 sperm into a newborn bundle of joy then what gives compadres.

Reality check. prenup whup whup, the minute the rubber scorches the tarmac on yankee home soil shes going to be out the terminal faster than a suitcase of saddams money out the bank come invasion day.

Good luck to the old boy, if my old pa was up to that sort of caper i'd take him out to the yard and have him shot before he injured his back or something.

i apologise for my post, but i got ripped to shreds for a few minor infractions and this guy should get his own series or JERRY SPRINGER!!!!

got to laugh though, he'll probably die on the job.

if he was honest about his mucky antics that he was basically using whoever it was for cheap thrills then i could cope, but to actually go down this whole baby thing just beggars belief

 pmsl.

cant he stick to golf and watching pornos like old boy connery.

[Turboguy]

LOL,,,, the problem is that in a few short months or years you will not be able to perform a husband's duty at 66+ y.o., and a wife of 28 y.o. will want a little more,,, shall we say,,, physical satisfaction.   Do you need someone to draw pictures on a blackboard for you?

The Mexicans have a name for that guy... His name is Sancho.  If you find some shoes in the closet which do not fit, you will know that Sancho has been visiting.  OMG~! you are such an idiot.

Darn jb, I always heard women reach their sexual peak around 38 (even though I never believed it)   I was thinking a decade from now I will really have it made.   Now you go and throw cold water on it,  Hummm.

Neo,  Never mind.  Thanks for sharing your opinion.

[jb]

neo's a bit hard to read,,, but I think his target is quite clear.

[Turboguy]

Humm, I was wondering what all those circles were on my chest.

[neo]

Turboguy, sorry, i was replying to the original post and the old duffer chasing young skirt because he gets off on young flesh, it wasnt directed at you in any way.

For the record, i support guys in their 40's and 50's going after women in their 30s and 40s because to be honest women don't exactly hold it togetehr apart from Sophia Loren and that italian sort who dibbled Peter Sellers.

Whereas most guys still manager to age gracefully a la sean connery, harrsion ford pearce brosnan etc and so can easily catch the eye of a younger lady.

But i think about all the hot 30 something and 40 something women in russia and i wonder why on earth guys in their 60's pursue 20 soemthign women when they know they are leaving themselves wide open to problems, TBH i have dated 20 something women for years and the are mostly quite mentally unreasonable until they get to about 34-35 so seriously guys, why put yourself through it, we all know women hit their prime in their 30's

as an edit i'd also like to say that attitude and motivation play a big part.

I'll put my hands up that im involved with someone who is 20 and im 32 so thats 12 years, but as i stated already i don't want to marry for a few years and the girl im with is very mature for her age and im very immature for my age and we're about right, now this girl at 20 is more mature than my wife was at 25 so it just really depends on the individuals concenred - someone who is a "old" 45 is clearly not going to do well with someone who is a "young" 30 but just as someone who is a "young" 45 is not oging to do well with someone who is an "old" 35.

But you have to look at what your real motivation is, because if you actually say well you want a younger women because its a better match, then you don't need to say but she needs to be 40 years younger because illl struggle to think about what you could possibly have in common with a girl 40 years your junior other than your desire to give her your lad.

The original guy is clearly in the physical gratification camp and thats just wrong, dirty and abusive, and in whatever way and even with her consent he is still taking advantage by means of economic or ortherwise that girls situation because lets face it if she had any choice she would take a guy half his age or younger.

So you have to shove it in context that theres a world of difference between marrying younger because youa re immature and you want to adds ome years on teh clock and purely doing it for the physical gratification.

and my comments relate to frankly excessive age gaps because i feel a dirty old perv with a 13 year gap and even my family raised an eyebrow at me dating a 20 year old.

[Turboguy]

That's ok Neo. 

You must not be talking about AW when you say they stop being mentally unreasonable around 34 or so.   You only say that because at 32 you have not dated as many women that age much yet.   They don't change Neo.  What you see is what you get. 

[neo]

Oh good god Turboguy, you didn't have to ruin it for me, i was living under the deluded self belief that all this would end eventually and i would wake up one day to find a reasonable, rational woman in my bed instead of a hormone fuelled banshee plate thrower.

I might turn gay if thats the case, but looking at you guys thats out of the frying pan into the fire

[Gator]

I wrote much earlier, "Interesting how AM are more judgmental than RW."  Now Zhena joins us and also says not "...to interfere in someones private life."

We can learn a lot from our RW sweeties.  Not just about judging others, but many other aspects of life.  That is why I am so enthusiastic about creating a family and taking the best from both of our cultures.

[Gator]

JB,

Regarding the sex question,  you may be surprised.  Sancho will not have a chance when your nickname is the Geriatric Gigolo.

GG