The Survivors Guide to HRB/RLM

[neo]

the Survivors Guide to HRB and RLM

Hi all,

i was asked recently to write about my experience of using HRB and how i met my wife, i have been reading the many long running threads and discourse over HRB and RLM on the various boards and thought it was time i commented.

Firstly, i'm not going to use this platform to go on a anti HRB/RLM rant, imy opinion is that agencies are like vegas casinos, they are there to take your money and if you win or have a good time that is really just incidential to their role of emptying your wallet.

I know Patrick and Co like to read the forums and know what we all think, there has also been some allegations that they have banned any "whistleblowers" from their service, my only comment Patrick if you are reading is if you want to enter into Private dialogue about your service and how you could solve the problems you are causing your clients i'm happy to participate in that, I'm not here to slander you or your service but it seems you don't want to come to terms with the holes in your system and therefore its only fair to give your new members some helpful information on how to get the best out of your service which i presume is what you should want for them.

OK, so the caveat emptor.

This is not a recommedation for HRB or RLM - i'm on the fence, pay your money and take your choice is my motto, its merely advice for those who are in the system or want to use the service on how you can avoid a lot of pitfalls or getting ripped off and suckered for credits for no good reason, but be aware you are running through a minefield in hob nailed boots. HRB and RLM have a lot of problems in their model that are been exploited and i think if they don't want to address them then as a consumer its fair that we find ways to counter those faults until they are prepared to correct them.

I met my wife through HRB, and it was well documented on RWG at the time, so in that respect they did "exactly what they said on the tin" so i can't complain about them, i also know that there are a lot of 100 percent genuine girls and women on the site who (if you can negoatiate through it) are well worth meeting, what i'm going to concentrate on in this thread is how you can make that happen without being taken for a ride.

I should also like a few rules, people are welcome to ask questions and comment, all contributions are encouraged. But i'd like to point out i don't want this thread as some sort of anti HRB/RLM soapbox, there are plenty of existing topics for people to vent their anger at the HRB system already. What i'm here to do is to provide a CONSTRUCTIVE handbook for guys who have already joined HRB and are writing to a woman and really like them and want to meet them. I'm here to help those guys get to that goal of meeting them woman in person without it being derailed for them, so please respect that - I won't be drawn into an anti-agency rant because it won't help those guys who may have already made a big investment with HRB get to their end goal.

There are cases i'm sure where guys need to walk away from it and face the loss, but im sure there are also guys who have found a genuine person on RLM and need to figure out a way to make it a success against what seems to be a increasingly difficult business model for them to deal with.

So lets begin.

 the History.

I joined HRB in the early days when they still offered tours, their Model was quite competetive compared to AW and they were doing a great play on customer service, at the time AW was the big bad wolf and so RLM were doing a lot to get contact details of girls on AW so that guys didn't get their wallets hoovered by AW (i know, the irony).

My first impressions were not good. Out of maybe 10 girls i wrote i got about 3 replies, the rest didn't even read the mails and a couple were already married. I complained to HRB and they were quick to address the problems and remove the dead profiles and they gave me a refund on credits and some complimentary credits to make up for it.

I found my wifes profile about 2-3 weeks in, her photos were stunning (she was a former model) and she had a detailed interesting profile that was quite "genuine". It was her birthday that week so as a first contact i used RLM to send her some flowers and a bottle of perfume. It hit the spot straight away, she was thrilled and talked about it still a year after our marriage. We started writing, first every couple of days, then every day, then 3-4 times a day then we started chatting and we would talk for hours on the chat. we got to know each other over the space of only 3-4 weeks but we had a really lot of communication during that time, i spent maybe 800 USD in 3 weeks communicating with her. I stopped writing the others as i felt a WOVO was the way forward.

I knew i had to get on the plane early, this girl was too good to miss and would get snapped up quickly, so i booked some time off work for 2 weeks and told HRB i wanted to go and visit for 5 days, i wanted a suite at the best hotel - so they fixed up the price and sent the paperwork over. There was some complication paying for the tour because the transfer would take too long and i would miss my visa slot, so after a lot of intervention by the HRB brass and mails back and forth plus a lot of nagging from my wife they got a deal that i would send HRB's cut to them and the rest direct to the local agents. i got the payment sorted with about 2 days to go.

My trip was well documented on RWG, and is maybe still in the archives. The local agent was fantastic in Rostov (i can give the agencies URL if anyone wants it, v. recommended and good value service). My wife was waiting for me in the hotel about 1 hour after i arrived so i barely had time to shower. To cut a long story short we spent every available hour together while i was there and basically we were either together or at home sleeping for a few hours,.

So i came home with my head in the clouds, and realised i wanted to be with her for good and we decided on a wedding in the seychelles 2 months later. It was probably too soon in retrospect but i had been sat on the fence for 5 years with my ex-fiance and was probably just impatient to get down the aisle. Anyway, the wedding went like a dream, we missed some flights and so on so the usual travel issues, but we spent a paradise filled 2 weeks on a deserted tropical island beach and well "other activities" if you get the idea. I was just crazy about my wife, she used to model lingerie and she had hte most perfect popka you have ever seen, unfortunately everyone did see it as she wanted a perfect all over tan so spent the entire 2 weeks dressed in nothing but the smallest thong you could find - which meant i was permenantly "on station"

So we were married for 2 years all in, we got divorced this year after 18 months of visa nightmares and too much time apart. Don't let that discourage you - it was nothing to do with anything but a 2 year run of bad luck, it was simply our bad luck with the visa officer we got on the day, but we spent a lot of time together in Russia and TBH we had a fantastic relationship while it lasted, despite being a ex model she was funny, down to earth, kind and great company, she was also fantastic with money - she argued over taxi fares, negotiated prices down and did everything to save our money, so she was the perfect RW - stunning beauty with good home values. We had a very simple Russian divorce. No money or property changed hands and it was done for about 25 USD and it was by mutual consent, it came to an end because we were facing years of fighting a visa appeal or me moving to russia and starting again from scratch which she asked me to do, but by which time we had spent all our spare money on fighting the visa and would have really struggled to start a business and make a go of it without serious hardship.

So to summarise, i was with HRB for about 3 months start to finish. I spent maybe 600-800 on credits to talk to my wife and the other 10 or so girls i first wrote for the first 2 or 3 weeks, and i spent about 200 dollars on gifts for her. My tour price came in at about 2000-2500 all in for 5 days but to be fair to HRB a lot of that was my hotel suite upgrade and compared to some other tours they were very competetive on price - i also got a translator/guide for my entire time there and she spent a lot of hours every day with us and took us to a lot of places. Its the best arranged visit i have had in a long time but a lot of that was down to the local agents.

So all in it cost about 3,000 USD for the tour expense and fees to HRB>

Now a lot of people will be thinking thats a lot of dough, and you have to add in the 1000 flight, and about another 1000 USD while i was there, although i only spent maybe 300 USD of that and i used the other 700 USD to get my wifes computer repaired, i had tried to fix it but ran out of time and having a computer at home meant we could talk all the time without her getting internet cafe bills so it is a good value purchase - always take your lady a laptop ro buy her one and try and get her connected to ADSL in russia it saves you a fortune in the long run especially if you get skype and can talk for free!

I should point out this was pre HRB/RLM's controversial business model change, so i don't think you could even do it as cheaply as i managed back then, i suspect i was lucky that while they were getting going they needed guys to go on tours and report back so that people had faith to use them.

Ok so thats my first post in this series,

Next up, i will write about the first stage - exactly how do you find a genuine girl on HRB/RLM.

[I/O]

Neo:  Just let me get this straight in my head for a moment, you knew this doll through HRB/RLM (whoever that is, I haven't a clue) for a matter of weeks, spent $800 on communications (BF deal), you spent how much time with her? Not much as I read it, you got hitched offshore, got laid a million times, she is as hot as hell with an arse to die for (So what, there is a million of them out there), you spent all your hard earned trying to get a visa for her, she never actually made it to your homeland to live with you, now you're divorced for whatever reason, presumably she or you or both didn't have the stickability to go the distance and you say you had all this bad luck.

You don't see something wrong with that picture? Train wreck, crash and burn, tits up are just a few of the phrases springing to mind. I guess between the two of you, you got something right, a $25 divorce, that number seemed important enough to mention.

It doesn't seem to be a very solid platform for a guy of your experience to be standing on dolling advice to freshmen on how to do it.  :noidea: :noidea: :noidea: :noidea:

I/O

[Bruce]

I/O - definitely agree the description Neo provided had huge holes in it.  Forget about the costs for a second...................because if you think about it if he did indeed meet a keeper for 5K, the costs would become meaningless over time.  Of course after a second of thought we all know they were absolutely outrageous for a "failed" relationship. 

He met her quickly for a short period of time after a short period of correspondence.  He may or may not have met her folks, much less friends, and may or may not have really seen how she lived - huge red flags in my mind.  He then went on to marry her in a foreign country on the second meeting (correct me if I am wrong).  Pure fantasy and voyerism, but reality put a lot of hurt into him. 

The BCINS put the screws to him and he may or may not have actually lived with his now wife for their 18 month marriage.  All absolutely horrible as far as I am concerned. 

His post was to actually help a guy stuck in the midst of HRB to naviagate through their waters....................My advice, cut your losses now and try reasonable, prudent methods using reputable sources.

[IAmZon]

Excellent post NEO.  I wish I read it a year ago.  At that time I was hooked on HRB / RLM (or should I say several women who I met on the service). Psst ... I/O HRB / RLM is a monster online service with Internet features that seem too good to be true.

You did very well! Better than me. I ended up spending several thousands of dollars just trying to determine if it was real.

There are a couple of other members here who were able to find the local affiliate and circumvent some of the BS.  Continue the discussion.  I am sure it will be helpful to many

[I/O]

HRB / RLM is a monster

  So it seems.

I/O

[Kuna]

I'm sorry neo, it sounds like you have a lot of old friends in here but I just don't know whether to   or  :selfharm:.  So far it sounds like the perfect example of HOW NOT TO MEET AND MARRY A FSUW.
Maybe it's how it's described or maybe it's just me applying too much logic to the process (which most men seem to think should be one of emotional highs rather than practical thought).

Anyway...  as you've been good enough to share your experiences may I comment on the parts that concerned me as I was reading?  Maybe a future newbie might spot the dangers that I saw...

I found my wifes profile about 2-3 weeks in, her photos were stunning (she was a former model) and she had a detailed interesting profile that was quite "genuine". It was her birthday that week so as a first contact i used RLM to send her some flowers and a bottle of perfume. It hit the spot straight away, she was thrilled and talked about it still a year after our marriage.

I personally think a man leading with an expensive gift runs the risk of generating interest in the midst of elation rather than practicality.  Yes, women love that feeling of elation just like we do but the problem is the feeing wears off, and when it does they wil need another "hit"... You just can't keep up the doses needed to sustain a relationship no matter who you are.

I would advise all men to try to develop a rich emotinal inner-self and avoid the urge to spend up big before a genuine relationship has been established.

We started writing, first every couple of days, then every day, then 3-4 times a day then we started chatting and we would talk for hours on the chat. we got to know each other over the space of only 3-4 weeks but we had a really lot of communication during that time, i spent maybe 800 USD in 3 weeks communicating with her. I stopped writing the others as i felt a WOVO was the way forward.

I personally think correspondence is a good thing but we should always try to remember that reading a written word (whether email, or chat) and to a lesser extent telephone calls and video conferencing, is no substsitute for a face to face meetings and time together. No matter how you feel try to keep a level head!

As for saying "We got to know each other over the space of only 3 - 4 weeks"... well I think it would be more accurate to say "After 3 - 4 weeks we felt like we had learned a lot about each other"

Now...  I find it "interesting" that you say you got to know each other over a space of 3 - 4 weeks yet you follow it up immediately with:

I knew i had to get on the plane early, this girl was too good to miss and would get snapped up quickly,

If you'd got to know each other so well over 3 - 4 weeks... and I presume you developed some sort of understanding about each other, but then you express a need to "get over there quickly because someone else might "snap her up".

Don't get me wrong... a man that's got the balls to get on a plane gets my vote but the description here just reveals this heart before head spiral you put yourself into.

The otehr thing that distresses me is the type of language used because it's as if you're dealing with a commodity NOT a real live breathing human with hopes, dreams, feelings, faults and everything that makes us human.

Maybe it's a result of us all living in such a consumer society...  If we want something we go out and buy it.  "Money gives us power" but it sure as hell doesn't give us knowledge, experience or emotional maturity.

so i booked some time off work for 2 weeks and told HRB i wanted to go and visit for 5 days, i wanted a suite at the best hotel - so they fixed up the price and sent the paperwork over.

Again the reference to money and consumerism.  I know American culture doesn't see (and maybe encourages) this mentality but I really think Americans have some problems understanding the weak position this puts them in.  I have a feeling our European members will know what I mean... and I expect some American members to attack me over these comments just because they "don't get it".  Again, not all, but some of our American friends think money will get them what they need.  In relationships it rarely does!

To cut a long story short we spent every available hour together while i was there and basically we were either together or at home sleeping for a few hours,.

This is a good thing obviously... It showed her interest in you and of course that is a great feeling.  Perhaps the emotional highs sucked you both in???

So i came home with my head in the clouds, and realised i wanted to be with her for good and we decided on a wedding in the seychelles 2 months later. It was probably too soon in retrospect but i had been sat on the fence for 5 years with my ex-fiance and was probably just impatient to get down the aisle.

The emotional high is really difficult to control and I can't blame anyone for giving into it.  I think all newbies should be aware that emotional highs are often followed by emotional lows that need a new high to return us to that state of bliss.  Another good reason to try to remain logical until you have your head in line with your heart.

Anyway, the wedding went like a dream, we missed some flights and so on so the usual travel issues, but we spent a paradise filled 2 weeks on a deserted tropical island beach and well "other activities" if you get the idea. I was just crazy about my wife, she used to model lingerie and she had hte most perfect popka you have ever seen, unfortunately everyone did see it as she wanted a perfect all over tan so spent the entire 2 weeks dressed in nothing but the smallest thong you could find - which meant i was permenantly "on station"

Again the whirlwind wedding in an exotic location supports my thoughts that the whole "getting to know you" process was more about a getting a "hit of feel good".

There's also more of a hint here about the little head overpowering the big head too...  I think most people would have seen where this was going from the outside even if it was impossible to see from the inside.

So we were married for 2 years all in, we got divorced this year after 18 months of visa nightmares and too much time apart. Don't let that discourage you - it was nothing to do with anything but a 2 year run of bad luck, it was simply our bad luck with the visa officer we got on the day,

I'm sorry... it really riles me when I see people blame a F-up on bad luck... bad luck that you got the visa officer you got?  Why can't we just take responsibility for our bad decisions and admit WE F'ed-up?

but we spent a lot of time together in Russia and TBH we had a fantastic relationship while it lasted,

Rather than a fantastic relationship I would suggest you consider it as a "period of intense pleasure that gave you feelings like you'd rarely, if ever, had before"...  and then realise it might not have been the fantastic RELATIONSHIP you thought it was.

Relationships need more than emotional highs...

despite being a ex model she was funny, down to earth, kind and great company, she was also fantastic with money - she argued over taxi fares, negotiated prices down and did everything to save our money, so she was the perfect RW - stunning beauty with good home values.

She sounds great... it's a shame you made some terrible mistakes and it didn't last.

We had a very simple Russian divorce. No money or property changed hands and it was done for about 25 USD and it was by mutual consent, it came to an end because we were facing years of fighting a visa appeal or me moving to russia and starting again from scratch which she asked me to do, but by which time we had spent all our spare money on fighting the visa and would have really struggled to start a business and make a go of it without serious hardship.

My interpretaton???  You blew all your money on getting a buzzed and fighting a fight that might have occured because your relationship was based on a buzz... and then you dump a so-called wonderful woman because you wouldn't undergo some hardship to see it through to the end.

I'm sorry... i was really trying to temper my opinions in here but this is now sh1tting me off... you sound like you really F'ed this whole thing up and you've walked away from your committment to someone you say was so wonderful.  It's pretty bad form in my opinion!

So to summarise, i was with HRB for about 3 months start to finish. I spent maybe 600-800 on credits to talk to my wife and the other 10 or so girls i first wrote for the first 2 or 3 weeks, and i spent about 200 dollars on gifts for her. My tour price came in at about 2000-2500 all in for 5 days but to be fair to HRB a lot of that was my hotel suite upgrade and compared to some other tours they were very competetive on price - i also got a translator/guide for my entire time there and she spent a lot of hours every day with us and took us to a lot of places. Its the best arranged visit i have had in a long time but a lot of that was down to the local agents.

So all in it cost about 3,000 USD for the tour expense and fees to HRB>

Now a lot of people will be thinking thats a lot of dough, and you have to add in the 1000 flight, and about another 1000 USD while i was there, although i only spent maybe 300 USD of that and i used the other 700 USD to get my wifes computer repaired, i had tried to fix it but ran out of time and having a computer at home meant we could talk all the time without her getting internet cafe bills so it is a good value purchase - always take your lady a laptop ro buy her one and try and get her connected to ADSL in russia it saves you a fortune in the long run especially if you get skype and can talk for free!

The money you're talking about is small-fry and has no impact on your success.  I was interested that you mentioned here that you had a translator most of the time.. I assume that means your wife had poor English to start with?  Another   don't you think?

This thread might turn into a great example for newbies on how to totally stuff up a promising relationship through the pursuit of pleasure rather than happiness.

I'm glad you're happy now but I doubt you'll ever admit to your dreadful errors during this episode... I hope you're pursuing your new relationship with a much more level-headed approach.

[Mir]

the pursuit of pleasure rather than happiness.

Exactly, and if one wants pleasure one should stay single

IMHO considering the psychological make up or models plus what this sometimes means in an FSU context I would certainly consider it as a red-flag for any man looking for a lifetime relationship.

[HiTech]

HRB = Hot Russian Brides
RLM = Russian Love Match

I had to google to find the reference.

Kuna, I/O,Mir:

I think you both are completely missing the point and being very rude.

As I read his post, Noe Is not trying to do a trip report on how to find a marry a russian women as you are trying to flame him for.

All I see him doing is giving a quick back ground on himself and his past relationship, and then intends to give advice on how to navigate the mine field on the sight Hot Russian Brides.

Slamming him for something he is only giving background information on , I believe is way off base.

Dale

[Kuna]

HRB = Hot Russian Brides
RLM = Russian Love Match

I had to google to find the reference.

Kuna, I/O,Mir:

I think you both are completely missing the point and being very rude.

As I read his post, Noe Is not trying to do a trip report on how to find a marry a russian women as you are trying to flame him for.

All I see him doing is giving a quick back ground on himself and his past relationship, and then intends to give advice on how to navigate the mine field on the sight Hot Russian Brides.

Slamming him for something he is only giving background information on , I believe is way off base.

Dale

HiTech,

I'll forgive you for thinking I'm "way off base" but it's not a trip report... it's in starting out...

Based on the content posted there's little introspection and a fair few excuses about the faillure so it's important to point out to future newibes (who will read "starting out") that there are a plethora of stuff ups and red flags of his own creation.

1) An expensive gift as an introduction...
2) A two week whirlwind romance with a girl that appear to not speak much English...
3) A wedding a few months later in an exotic location and an admission that he "probably rushed it"...
4) Blaming the failure on bad luck that they got a particular immigration officer on the day...

This is NOT the formula for a successful relationship no matter what else is added abut the mdeium used for initial contact.

As for intending "to give advice on how to navigate the mine field on the sight Hot Russian Brides".... let me try to wrap it up in a few words...

DO NOT USE HOT RUSSIAN BRIDES BECAUSE THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO SAY IT IS A MONEY MAKING MACHINE NOT A LOW RISK WAY OF MEETING WOMEN
Cheers,

Kuna

[ScottinCrimea]

Kuna,  You responded to all the points that I had noticed and more and I agree with your comments.  The bottom line is that he led with his money and his small brain and when it came time to come down to earth and deal with the realities, his larger brain couldn't sustain it. It's exactly the bass-ackward way to pursue this endeavor and the primary reason why most men fail at this.  As such, it provides a good example to newbies of how NOT to go about the process and as such should be held up as a negative example, even if that may make neo uncomfortable.  We tend to create our own bad luck and the real mistake is to not recognize our contribution to it.

[jb]

Quote from: neo on Today at 06:14:19 AM
so i booked some time off work for 2 weeks and told HRB i wanted to go and visit for 5 days, i wanted a suite at the best hotel Smiley - so they fixed up the price and sent the paperwork over.

Again the reference to money and consumerism.  I know American culture doesn't see (and maybe encourages) this mentality but I really think Americans have some problems understanding the weak position this puts them in.  I have a feeling our European members will know what I mean... and I expect some American members to attack me over these comments just because they "don't get it".  Again, not all, but some of our American friends think money will get them what they need.  In relationships it rarely does!

What does this slam have to do with anything?   I think neo is from the UK

[Blues Fairy]

I imagine if Romeo Montague joined this forum and told his tale of courtship and brief but happy marriage to Juliet Capulet, the bunch of you would eat him alive for his totally impractical way of "going about the process".  

[ScottinCrimea]

I don't recall a happy ending to that story either.

[jb]

I remember thinking when I read that story that the Bard must have had a low opinion of Italians.

[neo]

Ok, good grief where to i begin.


Firstly, i didnt set out to put myself up as some shining example of how to marry and be happy, you could write what i know about marriage on the back of a stamp. I asked my grandad who was married 40 years for advice and he just told me "don't argue". he was right.

I had been asked by more than one person to write about my experience of HRB. good or bad. personally i have been happy to keep quiet for years and am happy to go off and do what i usually do on forums these days - talk about lambos and such like but i get a lot of "curious" pm's so thought i would speak out.

Im not an expert on this, I have awful lot of experience in it but i think my life shows that even those with a lot of experience don't have 100 percent chance to succeeed.

My first post was purely "backgrounded" heavily cut down at that, i could fill a book but it was simply a "this is what happened to me" it WAS NOT INTENDED as some golden roadmap. i think you guys spend too much time here and as a result you just read too much into everything. in the real world people don't rule their lives from a tablet of stone, they fcuk it all up, and frequently, thats the joy of being a stupid assed testosterone fuelled idiot of a sex that we all are.

My bad luck was getting the wrong ECO, my close friend sailed through the week before - but the bad luck was not actually that - if we had got her visa and been together we could have weathered what was about to hit us and been much stronger. I honestly can't beleive how incredibly intransigent some guys can be over this - you make it sound like some sort of tick all teh boxes process. the result of having an ass of a visa is my wife spent a good hour on the phone to me every night CRYING because she missed me. No doubt the cynical forum heros will say that it was all an act and she was putting it all on and HRB paid her 10 bucks an hour to cry like a good un. I'm sorry for you if you are so dragged into the "red flag" mire you forgot what its all about.

I wrote about the financials because thats part of the thread, everyones no 1 criticism is that HRB is a non stop cash machine and it costs an arm and a leg. i presumed people would simply want to know what i spent. I honestly don't give a toss buck for buck what i spent over the decade, my lamborghini cost me more to service last year than i spent travelling to the FSU but its important to a lot of guys so i wrote it. Same as the divorce cost, all you hear is the "horror" stories of 50,000 USD taken to the cleaners divorces, i thought it would balance things to write what happens if you marry a girl decent enough to settle with you in a way that doesnt destroy both your lives. I guess you also took that the wrong way.

I wrote specific dates, timings etc so you know how long i spent "In process". the end result was to meet a girl i felt comfortable to commit to - this is what i illustrated.

TBH i didn't write details of what happened in my marriage or divorce because it wasn#t on topic and i don't see what the hell it had to do with HRB or RLM? - after all what happened to us could happen to me if i married an American or anyone else. the Visa situation put a HUGe extra burden on a young marriage which wasn't fair but ulitamtely our marriage breakup had nothing to do with her being russian or the visa, it was down to what was going on in both oru lives and with our family.

OK i'll break it down by the numbers for the hard of understanding.

Im not arrogant, head in the sand or egotistical. YOu think i just casually dropped 20K on a wedding for the sheer hell of it and made a mess of my marriage just for kicks. Good for you, get out int he real world more, there are a lot of guys who maybe do that on here but im 32, i didnt need to get married. I married her because i beleived we had a strong future together, i didn't enter into it lightly and i've had a good 6 months of nothing but introspection on what went wrong, what i could have done and what i could do for the future, but to be fair, whats that got to do with anyone? thats a really personal thing, the reasons behind my marriage failure are not a oprah episode, i didn't set myself up as the perfect husband. I cried about it, i tried to save it, and there are times i didn't want to go on. I don't think any bachelor can honestly have the first clue about hte pressures of being a husband and the member of a russian family. you can play the alpha male "i can cope with anything" card but until you walked 1 day in anotehr mans shoes i don't beleive you have the expertise another mans failings,

I wrote my wife for quite a short but in that time we exchanged a good 200 or more letters. when i printed our letters our for the embassy i used up about 4 reams of a4 paper. Don't think we didnt talk. And TBh she was more open and honest than i suspect a lot of sensetive board members would like a RW to be. i got the lot. and it made VERY uncomfortable reading sometimes but i accepted it.

When i went to russia i met her sister, her friends and was invited to the family home. i met her parents, aunts uncles and relatives. she showed me her entire life laid bare. THats why i had such a strong feeling for her so soon.

There are HUGE gaps in the timeline, i did go back several times before we got married, and we did not enter into marriage lightly. A lot of people at the time were getting fiancee visas thrown out, our Visa lawyer advised us (wrongly) if we got a spouse visa then they couldn't really refuse it. We talked about it and made an agreement over it, of course it was a marriage of convenience, we had strong feelings for each other at the time and "felt" we would probably fall in love with time but the reality was we were facing 1 of 2 options, months spent apart with our relationship going nowhere, or getting married and see where the chips fell. We made a very pragmatic decision to go the marriage route, we both agreed that we would try it and maybe it would worl and maybe it wouldn't but we both went into it HONESTLY that we were getting married so we could be together, and in my book there isn't a better reason to be married to someone than you want to be with them. Now fair enough the "experts" are going to rip this line out for the newbies and tell them all that im just a half cocked idiot for that and you should only marry someone who is right and you know etc. but im not a rational sensible guy, im a romatic so thats my perspective and my right - one of my good friends ran off to vegas to marry his english GF or 2 weeks and nobody comments on it. if shes a RW its headline "you crazy fool" news.

We got married in the Seychelles for very personal reasons, her family was all orthodox and mine were irish catholic. neither was prepared to set foot int he otehrs church, after a month of stalemate we decided to get married in our honeymoon destination - better to upset everyone equally than only half the family and cause a family feud.

We lived together straight after that, i came home only for about 1 month or so to prep the paperwork needed for her visa. Then my wife was taken seriously ill and needed a medical procedure. it knocked me for six and meant i had to take a lot of time away from work which put our visa paperwork in a mess.

We went to the visa office together 3 months after our wedding, my wife was still really ill and in no fit state for the pasting she was about to get, but us being apart was not helping her condition and we really needed to be together for her to get well.

When she didn't get her visa it put our entire life in crisis, we had to return to her home city but she had already rented out her flat and it was just a compelte mess. She really didnt care about going and wanted me to move to her city in russia and begin again. But i had  set uo everything for her visa app and our life in the UK so it was going to take months to pack up and go to Russia so we decided to fight it with our lawyers advice they were sure they could get it overtunred.

So i went back to England and cotinued to fly back and forth every second week ro so. Then oru apartment in the UK got condemened. it was brand new and hadnt been fireproofed correctly so i ahd to move into a hotel. without the accomodation we couldnt move the visa forward and we were stuck in a huge class action against hte builders for compensation and to get alternative accommodation.

I was having to find money for just about everything, my wife was trying to get a new job sorted out as they had given her old job to someone else, i was covering the bill of flying back and forwards every other week and having to do 10 hour days to make up for the time off, i was just dog tired and having to come home and process our appeal paperwork and evidence as well. We spoke every day several times aday when we were apart, but i was just too tired to think so i would snap and it was desperately unfair because my wife was coping with so much in Russia as well without me and just didnt dare tell me about problems because she felt i was coping with so much.

Then her mother was taken seriously ill and needed a lot of treatment and respite care, i wont go into the details, its not anyones business - but as is usual with russian families everyone is expected to rally to support and it was another thing for my wife and myself ot cope with on top of finding a place to live in Russia for her, a place in teh UK to support the visa app and hold my business together and health.

By the summer of the following year i couldnt take any more, i told my clients i was going to walk out. I had to sit down with lawyers and all sorts of people becuase we were under contract and i was just too tired to think and was making huge expensive mistakes at work, they agreed to let me have 2 months off so i could go and spent the time with my wife and relax.  

Coming back was just heartbreaking.  We talked a lot about if we should move to Paris as she had french residency and a work permit and i would commute on the train, but i spoke with my clients and while they would be flexible alll that would happen is i would be just as tired and travelling just as much - and my wife would be without her family in france.  we just didn't know what to do.

Our first appeal came to nothing on the visa, that was the real low point. We were really just hoping that we could win that so she could get to the UK, we were both working really hard trying to keep everything going it really broke our spirits.

The turning point came in late autumn, i was working in Germany and had been up since 3a and nearly fell asleep at the wheel at about 140mph rushing for a plane home. I sat int he airport terminal just in tears at the frustration of it all. I just wanted to quit everything i had worked 10 years to build (my business) get on a plane and go to Russia.  its difficult, youve got everything you have been programmed to do by the system - successful life and business then you have the girl you love stuck because of the same system.  my wife calmed me down. she told me i should quite the client contract and just go to bed for a month, she knew it meant we would have no money coming in but she made me do it.

I went back to my parents and slept solidly for 2 weeks. I went to teh doctor for a check up and he just told me if i kept going i would be in a wooden box by christmas and i had to take it easy. He also found something he wasn't happy about and referred me to a specialist. Im not going into details but it meant i was off work for 6 months and needed specialist treatment. The bank forecolosed on my business, we couldnt get money we were owed for 6-7 months and they just hounded us none stop, i wasn't in a position to be able to fly out to see my wife - the bank just shut our lives down completely.

I started to get better in January and got offered a lifeline - it was a good work at home type opportunity to do some consultancy. I had to travel to LA and NYC a couple of times and even a small journey and going to the clients office 2 hours a day nearly killed me. i was 32 and felt like i was 90.

I got in enough money to straighten out the bank, and to get back on my feet, but TBH my health sitation was on a knife edge. my wife was only 25 and i didn't want her life ruined any more than it was. She was still young enough that she could move on and find someone else, and there was no end in sight for our visa problems - the bank had just wreaked havoc with our business - i had to sell my house and we had been apart for so long, our letters were just full of all the various issues we were dfealing with and we didnt want to hand them over to teh embassy so it would be another year at least before her visa was possible we thought, i had to stick around and complete my medical treatment, we coudln't afford to do it privately in russia and she couldnt even get a tourist visa to visit me. So with a hard heart we felt our only option was to divorce in the spring. it was by mutual decision.

You know, i don't know why i have to justify anything i have done to people who aren't even married yet and haven't set foot in ukraine or russia a dozen times. I've lived in both countries and run businesses there and worked there for the past 10 years, i don't really pay a lot of attention to a lot of what you consider "mantra" because i've been part of a large extended russian family, a close knit russian community in my own country and some of my closest male and female friends are russian and ukrainian, and i honestly value their opinion on women and the culture more than guys who think "they know it all" because they read it on a forum.

Truth is guys you don't know anything. You have not even the SLIGHTEST idea about how RW live, their families, attitudes and culture until you have married one, lived with one and lived with their family. You take offence at the slightest thing in their profiles while these girls are simply doing awe inspriing jobs of balancing being a good family member, a good future spouse and trying to make their own way in teh world when everyone seems out to exploit them in some way.

My russian uncle (in law) told me to be grateful for every day of happiness we had, because like irsih tales russian ones never have happy endings, to be russian is to suffer. so don't go looking for some miracle route to happiness in these countries, you need to read some fairytale books if that is what you want out of life - i have sat down with my russian family and heard some truly heart wrenching tales of how much they have suffered and all you guys can worry aobut is if sending 100 lousy bucks of perfume is a good or bad thing????

Most DECENT RW have really difficult lives, everything they do is about survival, the few small shreds of happiness they have in life like their birthdays, womens day and new years are what keeps them going every day of the year, and ANY MAN worth a rouble will go out of his way to make those days as special as he can for what his wife does the rest of the year. I feel really sorry for you guys if what this "Process" has done to you is reduced your thinking to the right or wrong message of sending a simple gift - for me you have completely lost sight of the fact this is about people. Everyone is so hung up on red flags, scammers,  agencys and all that i genuinly think you have all lost sight of the relaity of this, its love and romance and the potential for happiness however short that really dirves you to turn your life upside down for another hunan being.

Yes i made mistakes, i didnt do kumas magic checkbox list and thereofre im some sort of defective sex crazed loony husband, but the reality is each and every day i did what i thought was right for me, my wife and our family. I can live with myself for that.

and however short it was, i was truly blessed to be a part of my wifes family.

For the record i have since been given the all clear on my health, i finally got the financial recompense that was outstanding and i have started building a new life with a new business startup.

So go ahead Kuma and I/O feel free to rip my life to shreds again for the good of your ego. I have bared a lot of very personal stuff so the new guys on the board realise this isn't some sort of joke paint buy numbers gameshow where if you do everything by your magic book you win a happy marriage.

This is real life, and people are different in every single way and no two marriages will go the same way regardless because everyone will suffer different trials, and you cannot say you are going to weather every single storm because you haven't stood in that guys shoes.

All the RW i have met have been unique and special in their own way, each one of them is motivated by entirely different reasons, maybe you find the perfect girl, maybe you are the perfect guy but you cannot possibly know what is round the next corner.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of people on RWG who went and go tmarried and really went through teh pains to get to where they are, i know some guys who have really suffered in lots of different ways and still come out the other side as really great guys - i also see a lot of quite embittered guys who never pass first post ranting and moaning to anyone who will listen on teh forums how the whole thing is a sham and everyones doomed.

The only truth i know is its just dating, tehres a whole bunch of silly assed people trying to make a few bucks out of it, but ultimately once you get past all that BS its just classic boy meets girl.

I have friends who have great marriages, otehrs who have disasters both to AW and RW. people are just people good bad or indifferent,and you should hear what the girls sayt about you guys....... its funny beyond belief reading some letters they get

Well my post is too long, and too O/T and im sure its just more ammunition to the first time experts who clearly know better than me.

TBH if you want to rip me to shreds go ahead, for the sake of being new back ont he block i'll bite my tongue in response for now, but if you step over the market know i'm going to bring it because eventually you are going to get further down the tracks, and fall on your face and you are going to realise 2 things.

1: Dont do that
2: Dont tell others to do that.

as for HRB. well i was asked to talk about it, but im not taking this kind of BS in return for my time, reality is i could go through most posts and simply rip you all to shreds but i have the respect to know you are writing maybe 1 percent of what you did.  If it makes you feel better to tell a newbie "dont do what he did" good for you, but reality is, what happnes if the newbie did everything i did and pulled it off and was married his whole life because he didnt go through what i did?

Its quite one thing to give people advice on avoidng being scammed, dealing with agencies, and tours and being in country and etiquette but bachelors telling married guys how to be married - thats a bit rich for my tastes.....

[Mir]

Well maybe the comments were rather harsh but the style of the story might have provoked that.

[You did very well! Better than me. I ended up spending several thousands of dollars just trying to determine if it was real.
quote]

Rivardco

If that is true then tell me what is the difference between you and the man who sent thousands of dollars to a girl in Russia who he has never met?

Romeo and Juliet?
Do you really think that should be the inspiration for a happy life? Would you wish that your relationship has a similar ending? No way, you would like yourself to spend many, many years with your love. To grow old together, to have children and grandchildren.
If you are really looking forwards to your romance to run the course of R and J then there is something seriously wrong somewhere
Such stories are great to read but no one wants to live them, at least no one who is sane.

[Blues Fairy]

Romeo and Juliet?
Do you really think that should be the inspiration for a happy life? Would you wish that your relationship has a similar ending? No way, you would like yourself to spend many, many years with your love. To grow old together, to have children and grandchildren.
If you are really looking forwards to your romance to run the course of R and J then there is something seriously wrong somewhere
Such stories are great to read but no one wants to live them, at least no one who is sane.

Sorry Mir but you are missing the point of the metaphor.  It's about not rushing to judge what's beautiful and inspiring, despite its obvious impracticality.   

[HiTech]

Kuna: Right now you are being a complete jerk. "You forgive me". What a load of bull.  Did I ask, have I in any way backed down from my opinion that you are still over the line on posting in a respectful manner to some one?

Kuna, Look at the Subject of this topic, how in any way can you make a comment about neo's post. He had not even started to post about about his real intent. He was not trying to make any points in hist post, but simply giving a short background to lay the frame work of his experience.

To at that point do a detail criticism of mistakes he may or may not have made in his quest for a RW degrades this fourm, does not give newbies better information, but is simply you trying to show how smart you think you are by flaming someone else.

The reason I jumped in on this is simply because I have been moderating message boards for over 12 years have been posting to them for 17 years. Post like your instantly cloud issues and are complete clutter to real information people wish to discuss.

Dale

[Mir]

Blues

Maybe you are right.

In medicine we often say avoid using abbreviations in notes, as they will make perfect sense only as long as the reader knows what they mean. To some extent the same is about metaphors. In the currant context the story of R and J makes great sense to you, but to me it misses the point of this thread completely. JMHO

[Rvrwind]

He had not even started to post about about his real intent.

No he didn't but his stated intent is to show guys how to navigate through HRB/RLM. Sorry but to me that is totally absurd!!!
He should be telling them flat out to stay the f*** away from them under all circumstances!!!
Then you all wonder why I get so pissed off. Keep paying the devil his due & the only one who loses is YOU!!!

[neo]

Rvrwind.

I didn't set out to try and help new members meet someone through HRB,

i was asked by several people for my thoughts and pointers, and if you reread my post i said the vast majority of people the best course of action was to simply walk away, but for the guys who might
be into HRB for several thousand dollars and may actually be corresponding with a decent RW
then i think its fair and decent to help them get a return on the money they have paid over

i think if they just walk away then HRB have taken their money and they have simply come
away with nothing, if it turns out that after becoming "qualified" then they withold or are obstructive
in giving over contact information or the lady suddenly vanishes or has no interest in them then
HRB may well be party to a very elaborate fraud and i do strongly believe that if thats the case they
need to be brought to book for it.

Simply telling guys to walk away i dont think is right, because if 100,000 guys a year spent 10 bucks with them
then walked off then you are sitll giving them 1 M a year to do basically nothing.

they should deliver, if they dont deliver then something needs ot be done, but as for new guys i strongly
agree that you need to stay out of HRB because their business model is fundemnetally opposed to delivering
good value and good customer service these days and i dont beleive any reputable "dating" agency they now
profess to be would censor and withold actual contact.

They should simply make their business seling their services at a competetive rate and not by basically extorting
money from clients by bonding them to the system or threatening to cut off their only means of comunication.

[SANDRO43]

I remember thinking when I read that story that the Bard must have had a low opinion of Italians.

Well, if you read his other works, you'll find he had it about Romans, Greeks, Scots, Maltese, and Danes, too (and his countrymen as well, witness the various Henries & Richards). Tragedies usually need a few scumbags to work properly .

If he had lived a couple of centuries later, he'd probably have found some good material also on YOUR side of the ocean .

[Jack]

neo,  welcome to the rwd!

As you can see we have many experts. Most are not trying to be hard on you and each thinks what he is telling you is actually for your own good. And I contend that is because the way each of these men proceeded, the means and method they used, is what they are going to recommend you to do if you went about it in a different manner.  It's just natural feedback.  "Here is how I did it, I was successful, this is how you should do it".  I will repeat each and every man is different and the ways and means he proceeds in this most wonderful pursuit can be different and still be successful.

With your previous experience you should have developed a thick skin.  Do not be offended nor afraid to post your views or experience as well do not be offended by other people pushing there point of view on you.

[I/O]

I/O feel free to rip my life to shreds again for the good of your ego.

Neo, nothing to do with ego here.  Simply rationalising the information as presented and at the end of the day, it comes down to, for whatever reason, a crash and burn story. Not nice and not something I particularly enjoy seeing, because who knows, I might be the next one.

However, what concerns me is this, you've headed this up as to how to navigate through a particular agency or agency group to find, in your words, a genuine girl. We have seen another example here of a guy having a major crash and burn and then coming back trying to doll out advice as to how to do it.  Again, quite a nice guy but he simply, regardless of how much experience, just didn't get it.

Good luck with your new girlfriend and I sincerely hope it proves to be your dream come true. Just a note of caution, comments like "She is better than my ex wife" don't really serve to underpin an ethos of having a real understanding of what is happening.

I/O 
 

[ScottinCrimea]

neo,  You've now had your initiation into RWD. It seems most new posters get an initial blast of opinion when they first come on board.  We see a new story and it provides a new forum to show the mistakes in thining and action that so many make.

I'm still confused about your intent.  If I understand right, you are saying that if someone has already invested money into HRB then it's better to at least try to get something out of their investment rather than walking away.  From what I am hearing, that sounds impossible or at least extremely difficult based on their business model.  Would you also advise someone to continue pouring money in a business that has shown to be a poor investment with the hopes that you can get at least a bit of your initial investment back?  Better to spend $10 foolishly and walk away from it than to keep spending to get a fraction of your investment.

It seems the basic message is if you are thinking about signing on with HRB - DON'T.  If you already have, cut your losses and RUN.

No sense in teaching how to compound a foolish mistake.

BTW - I know you're new to the forum and don't know a lot about many of the members here, but I certainly don't fit this quote and nor do many of the others who have responded:

" You know, i don't know why i have to justify anything i have done to people who aren't even married yet and haven't set foot in ukraine or russia a dozen times"