league and age gaps

[jb]

I/O,

When someone finally realizes there are limits to this craziness, i.e., to a 66 y.o. chasing a 26 y.o... et al... then the picture becomes more clear.  I am not the person who brings the bad news,,, merely the person with the flashlight who shines light onto these incredible relationships, sad as they are.  I don't care what justification they use, it's still pretty sick, at least from where I sit.

[I/O]

JB: I am all for shining light into the darkest corners of anything. Everyone needs to make some serious reality checks in this process and it is one of the reasons I maintain confidence in a small group of posters from this board. I grew up with a German Dad (Australian born) and he could and still can, wield the clue bat as good as any man out there. (The clue bat was often a leather belt when we were kids)

He is a great reader and latterly reads from the net a deal.  I mentioned this site to him some months ago when we were discussing my current situation and it was interesting.  Seems he must have found it because sometime later he came back to me and commented in his usual style......"Boy, if you have a brain, there is 4 guys on that site you should listen to". You can figure the names out for yourself.

He's a guy to shine a torch right into a dark corner and if you (anyone) haven't the nouse to see the light he will shove the torch right up your arse. JB, you seem incredibly polite by comparison to him.

I/O

[Jack]

Hey! What is this? :noidea: Someone is bad mouthing jb, calling him names?  :burnedup:

Rivardco over the past few years it has been I who has earned the right to go toe to toe with jb.  He and I have had some doozies and usually are bloodless battles have help to educate more than a few.  Now just because jb and I have not had any reasons to spar recently should not be seen as my willingness, or a weakness on my part, to give up such a position it has taken years to earn.

So Riv I politely ask you to back-off from you attacking jb.  There are many other individuals here that you can fight with     to such a great degree.  Without trying to sound condescending you have to start out as a lightweight and slowly work yourself up to the heavyweight bouts. 

[Turboguy]

When someone finally realizes there are limits to this craziness, i.e., to a 66 y.o. chasing a 26 y.o... et al... then the picture becomes more clear.  I am not the person who brings the bad news,,, merely the person with the flashlight who shines light onto these incredible relationships, sad as they are.  I don't care what justification they use, it's still pretty sick, at least from where I sit.

jb, If you think there are limits to the craziness you should go hang out at VisaJourney for a while.  Believe me you are seeing nothing here.  You can find anything there, 80 year olds with wanting to know what is necessary to marry a 16 year old, people asking how to go about doing a visa for their love they have never met, you name it.   Actually when I have read some of those posts I think about you. 

[jb]

Actually when I have read some of those posts I think about you.

Then you do me a huge disservice, I am not a pedophile.  Never have been one, never want to be one.  I think you need to get over your own problems before you equate me to sickos  like that.   Duh,,, duh,,, Why would you think of me in a case like that?

[KenC]

jb, If you think there are limits to the craziness you should go hang out at VisaJourney for a while.  Believe me you are seeing nothing here.  You can find anything there, 80 year olds with wanting to know what is necessary to marry a 16 year old, people asking how to go about doing a visa for their love they have never met, you name it.   Actually when I have read some of those posts I think about you. 

So, some how this makes what you do OK?  Geesh!
KenC

[Vaughn]

   Actually when I have read some of those posts I think about you. 

Am I the only one who reads this as...    jb's talents are sorely needed over there?

[Turboguy]

So, some how this makes what you do OK?  Geesh!
KenC

Did I say anything about it relating to me or justifying my actions.   My only comment was there there are extremes higher than we get here.

Duh,,, duh,,, Why would you think of me in a case like that?

Most people there try to be non judgemental as much as they can restrain themselves.   When ever I look at one of the extreme threads and read people politely trying to say 15 is too young to marry or it is probably better if you really meet in person before you do a K-1 I can't help thinking how you would respond to those people. 

[KenC]

Turbo,
You injected yourself into this thread.  No one ever mentioned you.  And yes, I do think you were showing some more extreme cases than your own to some how make your's look better.  If you get better treatment on the other site and they all think it is OK, why are you even here?
KenC

[ScottinCrimea]

For those of you enjoying this, I got a video.

http://ca.askmen.com/video/2007_apr/apr18_man_fight.html

[Turboguy]

Ken, you are more than free to think what you want.   Mind control is not one of my talents.  

I am treated great on both sites but of course this is my favorite and I have no complaints about how I am treated.   It is much more interesting here.   Sorry, you are stuck with me.

I hope it is better than the one I just watched that Alfie posted Scott.

[USCFAN]

For those of you enjoying this, I got a video.

http://ca.askmen.com/video/2007_apr/apr18_man_fight.html

 

[CaptB]

Actually......this is a "young guy....old guy fight". Reminds me of a movie where Adam Sandler says: "I just got my a$$ kicked..........................by Bob Barker!"


Capt B

[I/O]

Actually......this is a "young guy....old guy fight". Capt B

Started that way, but seems to have twisted into a "Young Girl.....Old Guy" fight".

I/O

[Turboguy]

I think some just enjoy a little verbal sparing and look for an excuse.   It amazes me sometimes how much a simple question can get twisted and how often they can imagine motives that don't exist.

I simply asked someone with a lot more experience for more specific details about what difficulties they had encountered in real life.   Here are two scenarios that might explain the question I asked that still no one has answered.

Scenario A.  A new Russian restaurant opens up.  You and your wife decide to try it out.  The decor is beautiful.  The service is prompt and polite.  The food is amazing.  The best Russian Cuisine you have ever found in America.  The check comes and you had expected such wonderful food to cost more.  You leave vowing to come back often.  A few days later you run into a friend.  You mention the restaurant and he says, Yes I went there.  It was terrible, don't even think about going there.  Would it be that strange to ask what he didn't like, if it was the food, the service, the price etc?

Scenario B.   The doctor tells you that you must have a quadruple bypass surgery in two weeks.   You are talking to one of your landscape clients and you tell him you want to do the job next week because you will be having a quadruple bypass the following week.   He says He had one last year.   Is it a sign you of some horrible inner flaw if you were to ask how long he was off work, how long he was in the hospital or how he feels now?

In the case in point I asked what to me was a simple question.  I hear many making strong but vague references to the difficulties and challenges.   I asked someone who is in an age gap relationship exactly what difficulties and challenges he personally had experienced.   

I have no need or intention to justify myself or explain myself.   This is a forum for men in relationships with RW where we try to help each other succeed and learn and to not make the same mistake as others.   I don't question those difficulties exist.   We have had long discussions about what we perceive to be the issues we know of that we will face and are prepaired to accept those and deal with them.   Like the heart patient I am looking for more information that might help me prepare, but like the restaurant patron so far my experiences have been totally wonderful.

KenC chose to totally ignore the question and to look for some nonexistent character flaw (I have many but not the ones he imagined)   The only serious answer I got was from jb who says what happens when I can't have sex in 5 years.   (I can do just fine without little blue pills now and I am sure with their help I have a few years left)

The only real answers I have seen to the question come in other posts from the very young Russian girls with comments like "What happens when you are having dinner, he sneezes and his teeth fly out."  (I will get my tongue pierced, and hook a chain to my teeth so they can't do that)  or "Oh, his butt will sag to the ground" (I will start wearing suspenders and hook it to my behind to keep it from dragging)

The issues we have thought of are mostly things that KenC would not have dealt with yet.  I am talking here about the financial and emotional issues based on the fact she will likely have a longer life ahead than I do.  We have talked in great depth about those and accept the challenges and problems.   KenC has probably not dealt with his teeth flying out when he sneezes or his butt sagging.  Ken does mention the challenges he has faced.   I will repeat my question.  What are they Ken?    BC says he too has faced problems.  He says the challenges he has faced makes success with an even larger age difference unimaginable.   What are they BC?   What issues have you dealt with?  To anyone else dealing with a large age difference.   Yes if you were older than her and you have died already I won't expect you to answer.  Otherwise what issues specifically have you dealt with FROM FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE.

[neo]

 

 

that old guy fight is too funny.

Turbo, i think you could just do yourself a favour and 'fess up to the truth and admit to yourself that
you like young women because you are a dirty old man.

You should be proud to be a dirty old man. My grandad was a dirty old man and had a score of women coming round and running around after him who were in their 40's when he was 85. he even tried to shag the nurse in the hospital afer he had a stroke. He was a dirty old goat and porud of it.

I think what sticks with most people is you try and hide behind all this social BS and claptrap that there is some deep meaningful reason why you as an old guy should be with a young woman, and there just isnt apart from sexual attraction from you to her and fianncial stability/benefit from you to her.

You can add in love, respect and all that as you wish and sure she probably loves you, what do i know, but she loves you in a way no doubt far different than she would love some guy her same age. and i think thats what people try and get at.

and also i think what irks people is not the age gap, its the guys attitudes that he wants to find justification for it all through some other truth than the fact he is a dirty old man who likes shogging nubile young women.

Either you can be proud, to be a dirty old man that for whatever reason you can still pull and shag a woman a third your age and see it for what it is, or you can delude yourself with all these socail engineering exscuses.

there is no shame as a old bloke having your head turned by a young filly, there was an old boy of 90 in our city who was a legend for how much he stuffed into the panties of 19 year old lapdancers knickers, if you've still got the taste for it you'll find the soup to drink - but what irks me and im sure others is the inability to really just admit to what you are doing.

[I/O]

Otherwise what issues specifically have you dealt with FROM FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE.

Not married, but already faced and battled with alot of these.  Simple ones like financial responsability. She claims she is very "Economic" but bless her dear heart, she hasn't a clue with money. Not a phirggen clue, but she is learning and learning fast, alas I have pretty much been the teacher in this area. And........she is the one with the higher degree in economics. :hairraising: So much for Russian education. That is an age/experience thing because I notice the younger girls who work with me are pretty similar. Patience tester that one.

Diplomacy and tact. Not the strong point of Russian women anyway, but even less so in a younger woman such as mine.  Shy and gentle though she is, she will rip someones entrails and leave them on the floor, even when out of her own environment when she sees something she doesn't like, then come to me and say "I is stupid, I should my mouth keep shut". At times I have agreed wholeheartedly. That is another "lack of experience" thing.

Lacking in organisational skills/experience, but I have noticed that has changed a deal over the two odd years I have known her. Again, mainly due to lack of experience, not a lack of willingness.

Turbo, that is just three very simple things without even thinking about it, and although all minor, are issues that can drive wedges and need to be worked through and dealt with.  Surprisingly to most, I am a fairly patient person and I remain fairly vigilant to some of these things in order to deal with them before they get out of hand.

I/O 

[Kuna]

Turbo, i think you could just do yourself a favour and 'fess up to the truth and admit to yourself that
you like young women because you are a dirty old man.

You should be proud to be a dirty old man. My grandad was a dirty old man and had a score of women coming round and running around after him who were in their 40's when he was 85. he even tried to shag the nurse in the hospital afer he had a stroke. He was a dirty old goat and porud of it.

I think what sticks with most people is you try and hide behind all this social BS and claptrap that there is some deep meaningful reason why you as an old guy should be with a young woman, and there just isnt apart from sexual attraction from you to her and fianncial stability/benefit from you to her.

You can add in love, respect and all that as you wish and sure she probably loves you, what do i know, but she loves you in a way no doubt far different than she would love some guy her same age. and i think thats what people try and get at.

and also i think what irks people is not the age gap, its the guys attitudes that he wants to find justification for it all through some other truth than the fact he is a dirty old man who likes shogging nubile young women.

Either you can be proud, to be a dirty old man that for whatever reason you can still pull and shag a woman a third your age and see it for what it is, or you can delude yourself with all these socail engineering exscuses.

there is no shame as a old bloke having your head turned by a young filly, there was an old boy of 90 in our city who was a legend for how much he stuffed into the panties of 19 year old lapdancers knickers, if you've still got the taste for it you'll find the soup to drink - but what irks me and im sure others is the inability to really just admit to what you are doing.

neo,

From my perspective you're spot on...  It's the BS that gives me the sh!ts the most.

If Turbo was honest and said having a sweet young thing makes him feel like a stud and could deal with the reality about her attraction to him he'd actually be on a better footing for success.  They could deal with the real issues rather than pretend it's something it's not and then develop an understanding abut a fantasy.

Vast age gaps are still a dumb idea... but at least they would be honest with themselves and each other.

Kuna

[Turboguy]

I/O, that was a great post and it was the kind of answers and information I was hoping to get when I first asked the question.   Thank you very much for sharing that information.   I do have to think those are more cultural differences than age differences.   The kind of thing you would encounter with most any RW.  Still it is good input and I appreciate it.  

I am very lucky with VWRW in that she is very economical.  Like all RW she started with very little knowledge of how finances work here but she is well aware they are different and has an insatiable appetite for understanding how life works in America.   She proably already has a much better grasp of the basics than most RW who are not here yet.  She too, like most RW is direct but not aggressive and in her case her organizational skills are excellent.   I can be sometimes highly organized and at other times not but she seems to be always organized.  

I do thank you for sharing that and it was exactly the kind of answers I was hoping to get.  If anyone else has some comments I would be more than happy to hear them.

Neo, unlike you I have never been a "stud" at any point in my life.   VWRW is more like a best friend and lover all rolled into one.   She doesn't make me feel like a stud.  She makes me feel happy and complete.   

[neo]

Turboguy,

im not knocking you for feeling "happy and complete" with a younger woman, being "happy and complete" is what its all about

but you are dodging the bullet arent you and you know it.

You didnt go out to feel "happy and complete" with women in their 30's, 40's or 50's you went out intentionally looking for a younger woman in a certain age bracket. and the reality is im sure you could have felt as equally happy and complete with a woman closer to your age but there is a reason that motivated you that you didnt and i think you are still dodging that bullet in your resolute determination not to admit it.

I will say it again, i don't have a problem with a guy with a younger woman, i do it, every guy does it and if i can still do it when im your age then good luck to me as well.

But what im trying to say is far too many guys hang this on the "happy and compelte" type peg or a myriad of other things but the reality is i feel happy and complete with my 20 year old girlfriend. but you know what? when i was 24 i was "happy and complete" with a woman who was 30.

So what changed? as a man i suffered the same that we all suffer that with my advancing years i feel a need to reassert my validty and virility as a man by attracting a younger woman.

Im porud to say im can pull a woman 13 years my junior, my friends gave me a slap ont eh back and its a nice ego rub in the same way as driving a sports car gives you that "young man buzz" no matter how old you get.

But im honest about my reasons for doing it, sure like you im happy and complete, but i was happy and ocmplete with women older than me, the fact remains we have both chosen to pursue much younger women to make us feel more virile and reassert the fact we arent getting past it. i can admit that, can you?

im not trying to have a slam at your expense, but the fact is we are young women addicts, adn like all addicts the road to recovery is admission.

my names neo. and im a young russian woman addict.

there said it.

[ScottinCrimea]

And on the other hand, the women need to fess up to their real feelings.  They either want the father they never had, they don't like sex all that much and are happy that it won't be so often with an older man, they want to be taken care of, they want to feel secure that they won't have to compete with another woman for their man's affection (One reason some men marry overweight women or fatten them up after they are married), they want financial security, they don't want kids, they are insecure and need the extra attention that a desperate older man gives them, they see it as a temporary situation to solve a temporary bad period in their life, It's a trade off providing them something they want such as a green card or an education after which they can move on.... all of these and more that I'm sure others can think of fit better than the rationalizations we keep hearing.

One thing that keeps bothering me is TG saying that it has been 4 months already and things are wonderful so everything must be okay.  And how many of those months were off in the Caribbean?  4 months is nothing.  He have yet to face any of the real challenges or defining events such as the wedding, the acquisition of the green card, the completion of her education, the point where she is self sufficient in the US, etc.  Only after all of these will he have some idea of why she is with him, and then later will come the effects of age that will hit him a lot sooner than her and limit him in ways that she may not be willing to handle.  I wrote to my wife for a year before I went to visit her, lived with her for 1 1/2 years before I married her, and still I wasn't fully prepared for the changes in the relationship that marriage brings.  Now if I had added a significant age gap or a language barrier, I can't even imagine.

[Mir]

my names neo. and im a young russian woman addict.

there said it.

That was quite clear from one of your first posts, in which you described what a rush it is when the Russian woman first comes to your place for a bath

[I/O]

I do have to think those are more cultural differences than age differences.

On the points I mentioned, I disagree on the basis I have several younger women working with me and ALL display exactly the same tendancies. They ALL grew up in my city.

Turbo, please don't use any examples I am giving as some sort of check list for VWRW. That is dumb. Seriously dumb. I could give you a hundred points and you could check them all off, but is any of that going to change the reality.  I really can't understand why you two are going the way you are.  She wants an education and you want fornication, fair deal, I have no problem with that, but why haven't you gone the student visa road? Then if it lasts the distance you can do the hi ho we are in love, get married trick later.

I/O

[neo]

just to be clear, you do know what it means when a RW says shes coming "round for a bath" dont you mir?

i said it, because TBH i hadn't the first clue and when she said it i said "why? whats wrong, do you need me to call a plumber to your apartment?"

i still had no clue what she was up to until a guy on the forum told me what it was all about, all i can say is most of the girls in my country are right dirty cows in that respect

[Turboguy]

We have our company picnic today so unfortunately I will have to be away from the computer for a while just as this is getting interested.

Neo,  you are 32 years old.  Younger women in the same sense as my relationship haven't even been born yet.  Neo, I can't even convince VWRW that I did not fall in love with her because of her youth.  I won't waste my breath trying to convince you.   I have vague memories of dating a woman 6 months older one time but have no memory of who it was.  Otherwise I have dated some women who were 5-10 years younger but most were 25 or so years younger.  A few had a bigger gap than with VWRW. 

I/O, you have given me the best answers I have had so far so I appreciate that.   Are you saying an older RW would have a better grasp of American finances and not be strong willed?   Personally I think it is an individual thing and not related to a particular woman what ever age she is or what ever age gap they have.   I think most RW are strong willed and arrive without a thorough grasp of Western finances. 

Scott, I appreciate your comments however they have nothing to do with what I asked.   I don't question that we may face difficulties.   There has been enough discussion of motivations of either or both of us which is all speculation anyway.  Not much new is likely to come out.   It is in the category of think what you want.  There has also been enough discussion of what may (or may not) happen 20 years from now.   Not much new is going to come out in that topic. 

I will say again, there have been lots of comments about the difficulties of an age gap relationship.  This is from people whose wives did not leave after they got the green card and if they died of old age they did not post about it yet.   I am looking for more information about exactly what issues they faced.  I have never seen it discussed and I would enjoy hearing more.  Scott, I am not being critical of your post.  I am simply trying to keep the discussion from getting off track into personal situations.   I am not bragging that we have a perfect relationship after 4 months of wonderful vacations (tongue in cheek)  I am simply commenting that I have not experienced problems yet and trying to find out from those with first hand experience what problems might lie ahead?   I am not looking for a checklist of things to grade VWRW on.   We have both passed any tests we had for each other and are happy to be moving ahead.   I am asking where the potholes may be in the road ahead so I can try to steer around them or brace myself for a big bump.   Someone like KenC would be a perfect example since he claims he has dealt with challenges or BC who says their age gap is the limit.  I have to think they have reasons for feeling that way, What are they?   I thought I/O's answers were great and that is the kind of input I am looking for.