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Author Topic: Yet another age difference thread  (Read 13524 times)

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Offline KenC

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Yet another age difference thread
« on: August 28, 2007, 07:22:31 PM »
I am posting some of my thoughts regarding a marriage to a RW significantly younger.  I wanted to put this in the Starting out section so as to hopefully gain the attention of the newer members.  As a background, let me inform you that I have been married for over 8 years now to a beautiful Russian woman 25 years my junior.  Recently, my good friend Gator teased me by posting "don't do what KenC did even though he is the happiest man in the world" or something very similar to that.  And yes it is true, but I sincerely do believe that my marriage is the exception to the rule and that most large age difference marriages will fail.  Hope this will open a few eyes before you pick out the young babe in the latest agency catalog.

Considering a woman significantly younger?

It is very easy to get into searching for a young hottie on the agency sites.  You may start out looking at women your age or a few years younger, but end up studying the fine details of a profile for a woman your son should be dating.  Of course the agencies will encourage this to a point.  Ever wonder why?  Maybe it is because their target market for men is 20 years older than their target market for women?  Of course they will encourage the women to push the upper limits of their age requirements and tell the men what they want to hear: “Russian women love older guys.”  How much of this is truth and how much is marketing fiction?  Let us look at some of the areas for consideration regarding this issue.

Russian Women love older guys-

Not necessarily true.  Most RW date RM close to their own age just as in America.  But there are some differences too.  When you cross thread Russian and American cultures it seems to bring these differences to the surface.  Life in Russia is hard.  People tend to grow up on a faster track than Americans.  Therefore they tend to mature at a faster pace than most American kids.  Russians also tend to marry at a younger age than Americans.  It is not unusual for a 19 year old RW to marry.  The American trend is to marry later in life and maybe not at all.  RW have a strong desire to be married and to bear children.  It is not unusual to see a 25 year old RW seeking a foreign mate after a failed short term marriage.  American 25 year olds are just hitting their dating stride.  The RW may even have a child in tow.  As a matter of fact, many Russians think that hitting 25 and not being married is a warning signal that she may be headed for a life as an old maid.  AW might hear the same biological clock ticking 10 years later.  In Russia, a single woman approaching her 30’s is in a bit of a panic to find a decent husband.  She is in the mind frame to compromise.  And that is what an older AM is, a compromise for the most part.

I would be remiss not to mention the financial aspects as another reason for RW to compromise in choosing an older foreign man.  It is human nature for a woman to seek out a man that can be a good provider for her and her future children.  Think about the young RW’s choices here.  She can opt for an age appropriate RM that cannot afford to support her let alone any future children.  She and her new Russian husband can move in with either her parents or his parents because they cannot afford their own flat.  Or she can consider an older financially stable man from a foreign country that can afford to support her in a lifestyle that she has only seen on TV.  Now that older AM is looking better and better to her.



The scam factor-

The larger the age differences the higher the possibility of a scam being in the making.  Rich old men with pretty young women have happened since the beginning of time.  Usually it is the prettier the woman the richer the man.  When you mix a group of women that are significantly younger than the men and the men are significantly richer than the women, you are going to get some very dubious motivation for match making.  AM with moderate income will find it difficult to see the truth rather than to believe the fiction here.  A woman wanting you for your financial status is still a form of flattery that many men choose to overlook. 

Do you really want a wife that young?

There is no doubt that men of any age will find a 20 something year old hard body sexually attractive.  Again, that is human nature.  But what about the rest of your life, after the 30 minutes of sex is over?  Are you man enough to have such a young woman as your wife?  Are you strong enough to take the potential flack from strangers or even friends and family members?  Do you have enough in common to enjoy each others company?  Just how many quiet nights at home can she take?  Just how many late nights clubbing can you take?  Are you prepared to have children at an advanced age?  Maybe the age difference is OK now, but what about when you are 65 and she is still in her 40’s?  How about 75?  80?

Marriage to a foreign bride is a very tough row to hoe as it is. One's patience is severely taxed because of the language and cultural differences as well as the additional legal hoops needed to be jumped through.  There are plenty enough age appropriate women from Russia to choose from that it is not necessary to push your luck with the additional burden of a big age difference with your future wife.  A woman that has some experience in being a wife and even a mother would make a lot more sense.

What makes you want such a young wife?

OK, I know it is such an ago boost to have a hot young chick on your arm and the sex will be incredible!  (Maybe)  But just why is it that you think you need to have such a young wife?  Explore your motivations carefully.  Remember that this young woman is not some shiny new red sports car to help you overcome your midlife crisis.  She is also not a good way to get even with your ex-wife.  When the initial excitement wears off, you will find yourself with a young woman that needs to go through all the prior experiences you probably have long forgotten about.  Things like learning to drive, your first household, and even college are about to be in your future again.  And it isn’t like you’re doing this with one of your kids, but with your equal partner in marriage.  You must walk the tight rope between guiding her through these stages without being over bearing and demanding as you might be with your children.  At the very least, you must be kind and considerate to her finding her own way through the many aspects of life that you have already experienced.  You can’t shortchange her just because you have “been there and done that.”

Are you secure enough to have a young wife?

Are you the jealous type?  Are you the insecure type?  Are you confident enough to not be wrought with jealousy when younger men are drooling over your young wife?  How great will you look in the eyes of others when you cannot keep that young wife for longer than it takes her to get her green card?  These are all serious questions to consider before you take the plunge and pursue a wife old enough to be your daughter or even granddaughter in some cases. Will you be driven crazy wondering about her where abouts when she is out with her girlfriends?  Or heaven forbid, she joins a health club to tone her fine young body!  That could just push you over the edge!

I had a friend that is in a marriage with RW 25 years younger.  On the surface, a very confident man and very sure of their mutual love, but then why has this guy already had cosmetic surgery with plans for more?  Do you really want a future life with such burdens of worrying about aging?  That certainly is not aging gracefully by any stretch of the imagination!  A marriage to a much younger woman does not make you feel younger, but makes you feel older!

What’s it all mean?

If you are the least bit interested in having a simple life ahead, stay away from significantly younger RW.  Hell, you should stay away from RW altogether because marriage to a RW is far from simple.  Think about what has been said here and understand that marriages with large age gaps are hard work and rarely successful.  But if you happen to fall into the trap of falling in love with a much younger woman, make sure that that love is mutual.  How do you make sure?  Hell if I know, but taking your time is a start.  Only time served in the relationship will tell all.

In conclusion-

Marrying a RW is a high risk proposition as it is without the additional burden of pushing the maximum age differences.  The higher the age difference, the more likelihood of failure.  There have been many mathematical equations proposed to qualify the “right” age difference.  A common one is ½ your age plus 7 years.  Why this one often is presented as correct?  I have no idea because it makes no sense to me.  The best advice I have seen in this area is to consider the age of the women you would normally date at home and then add a few years more to compensate for cultural differences as mentioned above.  If you were dating AW 10 years younger, you might be safe to consider RW 15 years younger and so on.  It takes two unique individuals to make a large age difference work, and most people just are not that unique.

KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Turboguy

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2007, 08:25:57 PM »
Nice post Ken.  You brought out some good points and some excellent thougths that people should consider.   I hear a few people talk about the night clubbing thing with a younger wife.  Did you experience that in your marriage where she wanted to go out and you wanted to stay home and watch tv?   Just curious since that is one of the things I do hear and you mentioned it.

Offline KenC

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2007, 08:37:51 PM »
Nice post Ken.  You brought out some good points and some excellent thougths that people should consider.   I hear a few people talk about the night clubbing thing with a younger wife.  Did you experience that in your marriage where she wanted to go out and you wanted to stay home and watch tv?   Just curious since that is one of the things I do hear and you mentioned it.

Of course I did!!  Any young woman will want to "shake it up" on occasion.  Even if you as an older guy are interested in doing the same, you will get tired of the stares and BS that will be associated in such outings.  You will be uncomfortable and so will your wife.  What to do?  Fortunately Lena and I have an extremely strong marriage with tons of trust so a girls night out now and again is fine by me.  She gets to shake her thang and that is a good thing.
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
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Offline ScottinCrimea

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2007, 09:15:45 PM »
Great post Ken, it lays it all out there.  Of course as usual, many will only read what they want to read, but those with the maturity to handle a RW will also have the maturity and insight to see the truths of what you have said.  We like to think we are all unique, but as you said, unique is not all that common.

My wife is 15 years younger than me, not really over the edge as far as age gaps go but pushing the envelope in my thinking, but it's me that wants to go out clubbing and my wife that prefers to sit at home.  Maybe I should have found someone younger.  :D

Offline I/O

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2007, 11:04:53 PM »
KenC: Excellent approach to the subject so many simply want to argue over. Your later comment even more so and it aligns with my thinking in so far as, "If she can't be trusted out of your sight, then you can't be trusted out of her sight".  I've long thought those who have hangups about trusting another often don't trust themselves.

I/O
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 11:06:32 PM by I/O »

Offline catzenmouse

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2007, 07:20:09 AM »
Very well said Obi-Wan KenCnobi!

And now we wait for the inevitable "But I'm different" long winded response from someone who has never owned a passport...  :D

Ken
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Offline vwrw

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2007, 09:31:29 AM »
KenC, to my mind your post is perfect! I have nothing to object.  :D
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Offline wxman

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2007, 10:26:29 AM »
Excellent topic and post! As far as stares, those are stares of jealousy. I actually pity people who stare at others. Their lives must be so boring, and perhaps without meaning, that they stare and make comments to validate their own sad lives.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." – Benjamin Franklin -

Offline ScottinCrimea

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2007, 10:51:18 AM »
wxman,  You think they will be staring and feeling jealous of her?

Offline viking

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2007, 10:58:15 AM »
Recently seen on Msn.com

LONDON (Reuters) - To have the most children, men should find a partner six years younger and women a mate four years older, Austrian researchers said on Wednesday.
The researchers tried to use evolution to explain why men often prefer younger women and what typically drives women's desire for older men, said their leader, Vienna University anthropologist Martin Fieder.
While it is no surprise to hear that men pick younger women to bolster their reproductive fitness and that women choose older partners for security, the study is the first to quantify the age difference that results in the most children, he said.
"Nobody has shown before this has consequences for the number of offspring," Fieder said in a telephone interview. "We have shown for the first time this is the case."
The researchers wanted to find the most beneficial ages for both men and women to have the most offspring, so looked at the data with that in mind and came out with different numbers for each.
Writing in the Royal Society's Biology Letters on Wednesday, the researchers said they collected information from Swedish national registries to track the number of births and age of parents going back 55 years.
The researchers looked at men and women who did not change their partners between the birth of their first and last child and found the age differences among couples that produced the most offspring.
For both men and women, having a partner of the optimal age meant having an average of 2.2 children compared with 2.1 children when they picked partners of the same age -- a significant number in evolutionary terms that accumulates over time, Fieder said.
The findings are the result of a statistical analysis and do not mean that every man can find a woman six years younger and that every women would find a man four years older.
"It was a very systemic pattern," Fieder said. "We don't think it is random."
The study of couples during their typical child-bearing years also showed that both men and women who changed partners usually chose a person younger than the one they had before for their second one, Fieder said.
The finding regarding men was expected but that women also traded in for a younger partner was surprising, said Fieder. He suggested that because women are older when finding a second partner, they look for a younger, more fertile man.
"This holds true both for men and women: men shift to a much younger partner; women shift to a partner less old than the first," the researchers wrote.
Tom Hanks in Castaway: You never know what the tide may bring in.
Viking: But you still need to walk along the beach to find it.

Offline KenC

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2007, 11:03:14 AM »
Excellent topic and post! As far as stares, those are stares of jealousy. I actually pity people who stare at others. Their lives must be so boring, and perhaps without meaning, that they stare and make comments to validate their own sad lives.
Some of the stares are quite comical though too.  I cannot tell you how many guys I have witnessed getting smacked by their wife/gf for staring at Lena!!  One poor fellow knocked down a whole end cap display with his cart in a grocery store because Lena had mesmerized him!!!  Man did he get an earful from his female companion! :ROFL:

And yet other stares can be in terribly bad taste.  Hell, I know guys are always going to look at a beautiful woman, but you should have a little class about it too.  Some just don't have it.  I have had numerous incidences where I have challenged another man's bad manners in this regard. :naughty:
KenC
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 11:16:33 AM by KenC »
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Offline wxman

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2007, 11:05:27 AM »
wxman,  You think they will be staring and feeling jealous of her?

No, I think some men would be jealous of the older man(yes, men can gossip quite well) and both sexes would be making comments about the couple. There are people who just aren't happy unless they can make comments about others. Seems they live to validate their own lives.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 11:07:57 AM by wxman »
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." – Benjamin Franklin -

Offline Hub

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2007, 11:55:37 AM »
Excellent topic and post! As far as stares, those are stares of jealousy. I actually pity people who stare at others. Their lives must be so boring, and perhaps without meaning, that they stare and make comments to validate their own sad lives.

You are missing the point here.  The point is not to analyze the other people.

Ken was asking: Are you strong enough to put up with the stares (and possible overt flirting) continually over a long period of time?

As a related note; I am not currently in a relationship with an extremely younger woman, but I am thinking how I might hold up and respond in line with what Ken was talking about.

How about when someone asks if she is your daughter or granddaughter, you both respond:  Yes she is.  Then maybe the stares and gossip will go away.  This is assuming you are with a group who are not your close friends or relatives.  It also assumes you are not acting lovey dovey with each other.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 12:00:39 PM by Hub »

Offline KenC

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2007, 12:41:33 PM »
You are missing the point here.  The point is not to analyze the other people.

Ken was asking: Are you strong enough to put up with the stares (and possible overt flirting) continually over a long period of time?

As a related note; I am not currently in a relationship with an extremely younger woman, but I am thinking how I might hold up and respond in line with what Ken was talking about.

How about when someone asks if she is your daughter or granddaughter, you both respond:  Yes she is.  Then maybe the stares and gossip will go away.  This is assuming you are with a group who are not your close friends or relatives.  It also assumes you are not acting lovey dovey with each other.
Hub,
The first time that happened, Lena and I were totally unprepared for it.  It was in a sports bar in Michigan and we were watching the Red Wings in the playoffs.  We foolishly (but kindly) debated with the guy that Lena was actually my wife.  Geesh, were we naive.  But that was a good lesson learned for us too.  No problems deflecting crap like that since though.
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Serebro

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2007, 01:17:21 PM »
KenC, may I ask you a question:what do you do for a living?

Offline KenC

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2007, 01:25:23 PM »
KenC, may I ask you a question:what do you do for a living?
I have been in various bussinesses for myself since I was 27.
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Serebro

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2007, 01:41:16 PM »
I have been in various bussinesses for myself since I was 27.
KenC
Could you be more specific, please.
Like when you met your wife what kind of work did you do?And what kind of work do you do now.

Offline Ranetka

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2007, 02:03:59 PM »
Hi guys,

Your board was a source of amusement on lunch breaks for me for so long... now I feel oblidged to provide some entertainement.

I am 35 years old RW. This year I separated from my husband, just a month before his 60th birthday. So I know the other side of the coin, I initiated break-up, our marriage lasted 4 years. The immigration issues were long gone at that time.

1. Children. I did not want kids when we got married, now I do. Unfair it may be, knew it before and all, nothing I can do to change it. I might never have a kid, I am already 35, but there are still chances for me with someone else, if I could find him fast enough.

2. His health. That last year he had some health problems, he was so helpless. suffering and moody it just scared me, I was not prepared for it, I was caring, helpful bla-bla-bla, but under all this good wifey crap (benefits of russian culture, I was looking for him properly regardless ofwhat I felt) was me screaming I was not ready for it. It was insight in the nearest future and I did not want it.

3. He could not keep up with me. We still could do some things together but most things I wanted to do we could not do together. Like hiking for 6 hours, cycling, camping, even sightseeing is not the same if you have to do it in a much slower pace that I would have chosen. whatever, don't know about you but I want to do things that I can not the most.

4. The things we could do together were spoilt by LOOKS other people gave. It is OK for some time but it just wears one down. I felt at the end like I had to explain everyone that I had my passport already, I just did not want to go out with him anymore, there was so hostile reaction from people or men assumed I was an easy target. I never ever had this while being with male friend my age or female friend! It really was THAT hard.

5. We had no common friends. KenC described it pretty well. You know, friends and people who are giving you the LOOKS can be the same people... We had very little social life together.

6. Money and security which come with it. This does not seem to be the issue for KenC or Turboguy, it may be for an average Joe, it was for us. I was earning more that him after about a year, I was going up and his career was seemed to be going down, I knew I would have to look after him in the future moneywise as well, it did not help our repationship at all.

7. And yes, other men. In the end of the day we all compare our partners to other people's, well, some of us do. I did. I do not think I could find the man who would love me more than him, but I can find the man who I would love much, much more.

Our life was cr*p outside our home, our life was very good inside our own home but I saw it going downhill with his health going worse, there were so many things I could only do without him. So I left. I was a very good wife for him, but this just is not working for me any longer.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 02:12:06 PM by Ranetka »
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline BC

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2007, 02:17:25 PM »
Ranetka,

Thanks for popping in with one of the most valuable (imho) posts on this subject I have seen in years.  Your experience confirms many thoughts that run through my head from time to time even with our 'only' 17 year age difference.



« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 02:22:20 PM by BC »

Offline KenC

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2007, 02:20:05 PM »
Ranetka,
Welcome!  That is one hell of an opening post!  Thank you for giving your perspective to this issue and for your openness and honesty.  I hope you continue to share your views with us.

Can I ask the circumstances of your marriage to him in the first place?  Did you ever love him?  What was your motivation in the beginning?

Serebro,
When I met Lena I owned a national marketing company.  Now I have a construction business.  No matter if my financial position was up or down, Lena was always the same.  In fact the hard times brought us closer.
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline ScottinCrimea

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2007, 02:25:34 PM »
Ramnetka,  Wow, great post!  You have provided an actual example of the things many of us presented that were dismissed as only theories and possibilities.

If you have been reading Turbguy's and vwrw's posts and comments about their situation and feelings, maybe you can say if these are the same things you and your husband were saying when you first got together and how long before these feelings started to change.

Offline Serebro

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2007, 03:34:34 PM »
Serebro,
When I met Lena I owned a national marketing company.  Now I have a construction business.  No matter if my financial position was up or down, Lena was always the same.  In fact the hard times brought us closer.
KenC
Ok, the reasons why I asked.. I doubt that Lena would like to meet you and more important you had something in common to discuss when you met her if you were a fat 50yo truck-driver spending your week-end eating pop-corn and watching TV in a tiny dirty apartment.

Offline Ranetka

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2007, 03:37:36 PM »
Yes I loved him, still do, just not enough, I suppose. And yes, we did feel like we could overcome all problems and nothing would be matter. And we both lost 5 years of our life with both our clocks ticking fast. I consider this marriage the biggest mistake, so does he. Although we had loads of great time together I would have not done it again.
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline Turboguy

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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2007, 03:39:09 PM »
Yes, that was a great post and very interesting Ramnetka.  I could be tempted to frame that and look back on it in 5 years and see how your experiences compare to ours.

Scott's post made me laugh a little.  I would also enjoy hearing if your feelings were the same as ours.  When you first met him did you feel he was the person you always dreamed of meeting your whole life?

Just out of curiosity, was he able to keep up with you when you first married and couldn't after his health problems or was that from the beginning?

Nice post.  I am looking forward to hearing more from you.

Offline Kuna

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  • Status: Married 3-5 years
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RE: Yet another age difference thread
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2007, 03:44:39 PM »
Ranetka,

Your opening post was and incredible bolt of reality even if it is an exposure of some very difficult experiences you're going through.

Welcome to RWD...  I hope you stay around and continue to participate here because you can help MANY peope in a similar situation.

All the best,

Kuna

 

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