Problematic of her integrating into local ethnic community?

[Eastguy]

I have heard many stories of AM/RW realtionships going to the dogs when the RW has alot of contact with local Rus. ethnic community.

Sweetie doesnt know any RW/RM here inthe country right now, but she is worried a bit about me being away and work and she being all by herslef (I can tell).

Ideally I would find a near local AM/RW couple ( or two) to hang out with

I also have  a<lot> of fun American friends closer to her age than mine so we can go boating etc.

She says she met  a woman in her town that just got married and is coming to US. and lives within 2 hrs.
She didnt specify if husband was AM or RM ( which I will find out soon)

But the social dynamics if she were to integrate into a local ethnic community would result in some mental exclusion  and the resulting dynamics would likely spell disaster for a relationship.


Any thoughts on this problematic?

[Jet]

From my personal observations, it's much more important to find people that share similar interests rather than similar heritage. I've met plenty of Americans abroad that I have absolutely *zero* in common with, aside from a blue passport. My wife is a HS teacher, we have Russian neighbors, she doesn't speak with them at all. The boyfriend is some kind of delivery guy and the girlfriend is a cocktail waitress at a local Indian casino. She has nothing that connects her to them other than a Russian birth certificate, and she'd much rather hang out with either her American colleagues, the guys I work with and their wives/GFs, or my long time friends.

What WAS important to her, was finding a local Russian market, and we have several excellent ones within a half hour drive from home, including food, video, music, and book stores.

We have made a few mutual AM/RW friends through our local Orthodox church, but it has been slow and deliberate, much the same as making any new friends would be.

[William3rd]

I think the result will be the dynamics of your own relationship and the makeup of your wife. Disasters seem to occur when the friendly local Russians want to marry YOUR wife off to their green card holding cousin or when YOUR wife is actually on the prowl when she gets here.

[Lily]

But the social dynamics if she were to integrate into a local ethnic community would result in some mental exclusion  and the resulting dynamics would likely spell disaster for a relationship.

I think that the mental exclusion is a real danger here. A RW may be tempted to stick to her ethnic heritage, what in turn may mean certain alienation from her husband and his local circle.

The biggest challenge for a foreign newcomer is to integrate in the society. Some do it easier, some harder, some never make it. I think that the success of mixed couples depends on this integrational ability a lot.

A person who married into the country has it to a certain extent easier than the one who immigrated in the way other than marriage. A wife should make the half of her US husband. Therefore, she should try to excel doing this job. As your wife, she has to be not only your assistant and lover, but also your ambassador at social events, your advocate at different daily things, your caregiver when things go not that good, etc, etc. She definitely should be accepted by your society, your circle, your significant ones. That's what a wife is for, right? 

If your U.S. circle are the FSU immigrants or mixed couples, then the play is a bit different. But in many cases it is not. She will have to be accepted into American society. A lot will depend on her social skills, on her abilities to be a nice hostess, on her talents to entertain your guests and her being interesting to others. Sure it is good to know some AM-RW couples, but in my opinion your common success would still depend on her successful integration.

[downsouth girl]

I agree with Lily, but, on my opinion,  a  relevant knowledge of English is required for successful integration.
Language is the main part of communication, and if your wife can not speak English properly it is 99% probability that she will have a depression. So I would reccomend to arrange her Englich classes as soon as possile. By the way, free or cheap ELS classes are available in local in community colleges/ but no questions that good language school in local college or university will be the best option. If she knows English quite well , I guess successful integration will not be a problem. I was shocked when I realized from the women forums that many RW  who live in US  even several years  do not know language & can not drive, so they can communicate only with other RW through iternet or by phone, it's crazy! Such wife never will be happy about her life, will complain permanently annd it coul be  a disaster for a relationship. So language is the main task to begin with.

[Jet]

So language is the main task to begin with.

Absolutely agree in the strongest possible terms!!

[groovlstk]

I have heard many stories of AM/RW realtionships going to the dogs when the RW has alot of contact with local Rus. ethnic community.

If your wife loves you and has a decent head on her shoulders, you shouldn't have any worries about her integrating with your local Russian community.

[downsouth girl]

Agree with groovlstk . If your wife has in her mind to cheat you she will find possibilty to do it  even without Russian community. If people do not trust each other they should not marry each other.

[Eastguy]

Thanks for all the responses.

I wasnt really worried much about cheating but about the dynmics it would engender, which would lead to a  ore negative preception of the realtionship.

Our relationship can be diffcult enough as it is, without being sharpshot by other folks she might meet ( which appears to be not rare in such situatio
 

[BillyB]

I have heard many stories of AM/RW realtionships going to the dogs when the RW has alot of contact with local Rus. ethnic community.

Sometimes someone in the community may give her ideas on how to use you or leave you and upgrade. Sometimes they may feed her poison and tell her that you're not doing enough for her compared to the average American man and will get her paranoid. Some FSU people like to ruin a good thing for others. If they can't get themselves up, they just bring everyone down instead. Just tell your lady she's allowed to make friends with whoever she likes as long as they aren't low class trash.

[groovlstk]

Thanks for all the responses.

I wasnt really worried much about cheating but about the dynmics it would engender, which would lead to a  ore negative preception of the realtionship.

Our relationship can be diffcult enough as it is, without being sharpshot by other folks she might meet ( which appears to be not rare in such situatio
 

Again, if your girl truly loves you and has a good head on her shoulders then you won't have to worry about her interactions with local Russian expats changing the dynamics of your relationship. My wife has met dozens of RW/UW in NYC and has only two whom she respects and keeps in contact with (she still refuses to refer to them as friends, however. In my experience most Russian people don't use the word "friend" as casually as Americans do). She's been blessed with friendship from two RW from this forum but unfortunately they're not local 

If you're open with her about your finances and plans for the future -- discussions that you should be having with her long before you decide to do a K1 -- and can educate her on personal finance, you'll be in good shape (or heck, at least it worked for me).

Funny enough, we met a RM/RW couple awhile back who have been living in the US for about 5 years. They just bought a beautiful home, yet they've been living in it unfurnished for months because they can't afford to buy furniture. Now, in their driveway are two new BMWs, one a 7-series and the other a ragtop 3-series. They're doing quite well obviously, but even after 5 years they haven't gotten a handle on personal finances

Anyway, I believe that if you feel it's necessary to regulate who your wife can or can't have as a friend, you've got much deeper troubles than worrying about someone putting nefarious thoughts in her head.

[Jumper]

lily said

A person who married into the country has it to a certain extent easier than the one who immigrated in the way other than marriage. A wife should make the half of her US husband. Therefore, she should try to excel doing this job. As your wife, she has to be not only your assistant and lover, but also your ambassador at social events, your advocate at different daily things, your caregiver when things go not that good, etc, etc. She definitely should be accepted by your society, your circle, your significant ones. That's what a wife is for, right?

If your U.S. circle are the FSU immigrants or mixed couples, then the play is a bit different. But in many cases it is not. She will have to be accepted into American society. A lot will depend on her social skills, on her abilities to be a nice hostess, on her talents to entertain your guests and her being interesting to others. Sure it is good to know some AM-RW couples, but in my opinion your common success would still depend on her successful integration.

I agree completely with
lily and downsouth , as well as jet and groov..

it should not be a big concern.
at all!
and the english fluency is what might make it  any concern ,
(if something is fundamentally flawed ,
then its the least of your worries anyway)

initially she might find speaking in her native tongue simply relaxing, its difficult draining and takes extra concentration to speak in a second language 24/7

and this *could* make her pick aquaintences accordingly initially,,
but really,,if your relationship is sound,
she will naturally weed out who is a good person to associate with or not..
regardless of comfortable language.
and with fluency , it wont be a factor. 


now-
i bit off-topic, i apologize..
 i highlighted part of lilys post..
not because i specifically agree or disagree ..

but because guys here often wonder what some specific cultural and general differences are in RW, and she hit on something i have never been able to convey to new guys asking,but the *OMB* seem to just understand.

it is not always about specifics,,
and all RW are of course individuals!
 
 but perhaps a general cultural difference , is the attitude towards marriage itself.
In my mind many RW (like lily did in this post) have a postive attitude and  goal to be a *true half*in everyway, and that the title  *wife* implies it as an "of course" 
 (an ideal which my wife shares)
the "of course" part is a subtle but key difference perhaps to many western marriages.

I hope this isnt taken as i "expect" her to do so..or have certain list of duties for her to to fulfill,  or that RW have some mentatlity of servitude,,that's HARDLY the case..
and laughable.

 It is more that she expects of herself certain things in being married.
In a loving marriage, being a *perfect wife* is her primary goal,and she has specific ideas of what that means and entails,and it is all inclusive on many levels
(something like lily pointed out)
Heaven knows i dont expect it,  but i do completely admire and respect it.

(and YES!  any husband worth his salt, should enter marriage with similar clear cut ideals of what  he should do, and be, to be her true second half,and a good husband  as well)

*shrugs*

Maybe i'm full of beans,,LOL
but it is my personal experience and *take on things*
after being married awhile,,and knowing many other married couples.

Being married cross culturally has its fair share of difficulties,,
and men here often say ,, that its worth it,,but cannot define why..

i think this is one of those many things that define the "why"

as always YMMV.



lily-
I hope you dont mind ,that I singled your statement out,it's meant as a compliment.
When new guys post questions on the "whys" marryinfgg cross culturally,, or "is it worth it"
I often  hope that indstead of listening to posts of allus silly western men here,
that  they really read indepth the posts of many RW on this board ,
all that i really respect...
the answers they look for are often clearly within those posts.
 

 

 
 

[Lily]

AJ, I don't mind and feel really flattered about what you said.  thank you.

[Blues Fairy]

But the social dynamics if she were to integrate into a local ethnic community would result in some mental exclusion and the resulting dynamics would likely spell disaster for a relationship.

Let me get something straight.  She hasn't even befriended this woman yet, hardly ever spoken to her, and you're already worried?   

"Mental exclusion"?    Every day she's talking with her American husband, in-laws, neighbors, doctors, colleagues (?), supermarket cashiers, gas station personnel, etc. How can the only Russian-speaking friend possibly "exclude" her from all that environment? 

Is it paranoia or what?

[groovlstk]

Blues Fairy,

Every once in awhile guys in the midst of a divorce will sign up here and tell stories about how their previously wonderful relationships went to the dogs because their lovely wives got involved with unscrupulous expats. These expats supposedly turned her against him by convincing her to trade up or some such nonsense. Some newbs actually believe it and then have the bright idea that they should tell their wives who they can and can't befriend. 

[jb]

I don't know about other men's wives, only my own.  She spends her days in a classroom teaching college level math to people that arrive on campus each semester, BTW, who are basically unable to do 8th grade arithmetic.  When she gets through with her day she is mentally exhausted because teaching the complexities of math, not in her native language, is just plain old hard work.  I fully understand why she needs to unwind with a g/f in Russian once in a while. 

I think the thing to remember is the trust that we must have that we've made the right choice in our mate.  If a man doesn't know the woman he proposes to, barely, or at all,,, then it's a crap shoot.

[Leslie]

Does any married guy reckon he has the right to "choose" his wife's friends?

I reckon not.  That sort of controlling behaviour will lead to failure.

You married a responsible adult?  Then trust her judgement. 

If she has another strategy there is NOTHING you can do about it once you are married.  Ask a guy called Maxx...

At first my wife sort expatriate friends from the Rodina.  Everyone gets homesick at times.  One by one they tried to use or put her down and were so discarded. Only a single one remains now.

[Misha]

If she has another strategy there is NOTHING you can do about it once you are married.  Ask a guy called Maxx...

At first my wife sort expatriate friends from the Rodina.  Everyone gets homesick at times.  One by one they tried to use or put her down and were so discarded. Only a single one remains now.

My wife is going through the same thing. She makes friends, but she is just as quickly putting some distance between the Russians in our city and herself. She finds that Canadians do not pry as much as Russians and they do not continually giver her "advice" on how to live her life (i.e. forcing their opinion on her). She found this out when she went out to lunch with a group of Russian women in our city.

But, she was a bit surprised when one said "if you have any problems, call me." Her reaction was, if I have problems I will talk to my husband and not some woman I just met. The only real complaint my wife has is that she misses her mother at times, but if she misses her mother, she wall call her directly and not some acquaintance.

Fortunately, my wife is a good judge of character and she immediately understood that the other woman would be more than happy to "find" problems and my wife does not want to play that game. My wife was a bit surprised that she expected that there should be problems. She also found them to be a very dour group of people, so she does not even want to make the effort to get to know them any better.

[Eastguy]

Let me get something straight.  She hasn't even befriended this woman yet, hardly ever spoken to her, and you're already worried?   

"Mental exclusion"?    Every day she's talking with her American husband, in-laws, neighbors, doctors, colleagues (?), supermarket cashiers, gas station personnel, etc. How can the only Russian-speaking friend possibly "exclude" her from all that environment? 

Is it paranoia or what?

Aaa the bane of internet posting..

I am sorry you dindt understand the qustion it is likely my fault as when writing on the internet folks will often latch on only to a portion of a post as we all do when we persuse posts.

An an addtional explanation:


No matter how much PPL love each other the butterfly effect is alive and well.
And like posted before its not an individual but a posisble integration into a ethnic community which I was askign about.

This would entail her social network isolating the non russian speaker and I have observed  great loves , mine and that of male and fmeal friends) being broken apart simply by the dynamics of a modern society in which the man and woman dont share the same cirlce of friend slike in the simpler environment poeple are designed for.


the Butterfly effect is alive and well, even in relationships (perhaps specially so)

[SANDRO43]

the Butterfly effect is alive and well, even in relationships (perhaps specially so)

Butterfly effect as in chaos theory ? How does that apply to the dynamics of a couple who've never been to Peking ?

[jb]

WOW~!  Did we take a wrong turn here?

[SANDRO43]

WOW~!  Did we take a wrong turn here?

Don't know, JB, but I'm hurriedly brushing up on entropy, I'm afraid we'll soon see that as well .

[HiTech]

Next thing you know we will be discussing if RW have dark mater for brains.

[Blues Fairy]

And like posted before its not an individual but a posisble integration into a ethnic community which I was askign about.

Sorry Eastguy but I don't see any "ethnic community" in your case, just one Russian friend, and not yet a friend, at that.

Aren't you overcomplicating things? 

Mind that if you isolate yourself and your wife from third-party attractors for fear of butterfly effect, entropy will strike fast.