Can younger men find love in Russia?

[JGalt]

Hello everyone! I just joined and this is my first post here, so be easy on me..

I'm here because I'm looking for advice on how a younger man can have success in looking for love abroad.  First, a little bit about me. I'm 25 years old (turning 26 in a couple weeks) and I'm currently studying for a PhD in engineering.  I'm not your typical poor grad student though; I was lucky enough to get a fellowship that pays a decent salary so I'm financially independent and have a good income and all that jazz.  So there you go - I'm a fairly intelligent guy with a good income.  I should have no troubles, right?  Well, not exactly... 

I've been corresponding with some women from Ukraine and Russia for the past month or so, and it seems that most of them (maybe all of them?) are suspicious of me because of my age.  I get questions along the lines of "Why are you looking for a foreign woman at your age?  Don't men in America usually get married after they are 30?"  I usually respond by saying that I want to be married but can't seem to find the right girl, and that I have a couple of friends who are married so it's not unusual for guys to get married at my age here.  It's clear to me that this response doesn't do much to assuage their doubts, because my correspondence with a woman seems to taper off to nothing after an exchange like this.

What I really want to tell them is that I'm looking for a woman abroad because I've had a string of long-term relationships (1 to 2 years) that failed miserably (some with quite a flair, I might add!) because the girl I was dating wasn't ready to settle down and thought the grass was greener in some other guy's bed.  Phrases like "I'm young and I just want to have fun" come to mind.  I'm sure we've all been there, right guys?  Anyway, after the last one of those, I took a break from dating for a year to clear my head.  I started dating again this summer, only to encounter another girl who actually had a minor panic attack on our sixth date because the topic of marriage came up...  It was a double date with one of my married friends and his wife and we somehow ended up talking about their engagement story, which is actually pretty hilarious (even though my date didn't think so!).  However, I think that telling a woman these details might make her think I'm complaining...?  Or just plain bitter?  Or that I have horrible taste in women? 

To make a long story short, it seems that the only women I am finding in the good ol' USA (or at least the ones brave enough to date a huge engineering nerd like me ) are a tad bit commitment-phobic and are more into themselves and their careers than family life.  All I want is a smart, attractive woman whose top priority is family.  Basically, I want a female version of myself.  I don't think that's too much to ask, but it seems to be a pretty tall order in this part of the world.  Two of my best friends managed to find great women and marry them, but I just haven't been as lucky as them I guess.  So a month ago I got this crazy idea to look for love outside my own country, yet I find myself in a bit of a pickle again because I'm having a hard time convincing these women from the FSU that I'm for real.

Can anyone give me some advice?  Is there hope for me?  Or should I just wait 10 years and try again then?

[Serebro]

I'm here because I'm looking for advice on how a younger man can have success in looking for love abroad. 

Just be yourself and don't lose your hope!
All those women may not be sure in your ability to support them financially when they come to the USA.
Btw, it would be very interesting to listen to Jazzy's point of view:)

[Makkin]

Hello,

  Congratulations on your career and good education. I hope my daughter follows your lead and stays in school to accomplish good things as you have done.

  You might consider going to FSU if you have not already done so and see for yourself the ladies in person. Your a handsome man so you should do well and attract some very nice women.


 Makkin
 

[Jazzyclassy]

Hello dear JGalt:)

I am so happy such person like you joined our super stunning site and would like to encourage you that , your age is beautiful and brilliant and of course you can find any nice girl from Russia or from your own country . Never panic it will be all great

Of course like Makkin I would like to congratulate you with success in engineering and wish you success in further studying and in forthcoming career.

the point offered by Serebro , is rather popular and reasonable, but not everything in this world is resolving with the help of money , believe me, there are things you can not buy , well if you of course want real feelings and real sincere marriage, not pretending sugary lies to love you , just cos you have money.

In here, in Russia you gotta be careful as those many women , most of them are ready to throw themselves in the hands of old grandpas without looking back and without any kinda regrets well but that is only in the beginning, nothing is for sure for them, as you heard a lot about scammers I believe, so you need to be careful with such type of girls , who do not care how old are you and how you look like and what is your soul like as long as you got Scrooge Mcduck fortune (Disney cartoon , when that uncle Scrooge was swimming in his money .....)

 but there are girls who are genuine and who are for real  and for sincere relations and for kind feelings and for true happiness, you just need to be one yourself to be able to find such pure nice sweet loving girl, it is not easy , but then again you want your future with a loving wife and kids , a wife who would truly commit to you and will support you no matter which financial position you occur to be in.

I also would suggest that you can look more deeply in your area and find some nice sweet girl, I know there are a lot of nice American women. If you feel like you really want Russian woman , you just need to be understanding and as Serebro pointed be yourself from the start and then there wont be any unexpected problems, as you will tell everything what's on your mind from the beginning

I can tell you a little bit about myself I am 24 y.o. , my boy is 2 years younger than me , he is from the UK and we have known each other since 2 y.o and few months already ,we met on one of friends sites and became very good friends and with time understood that we love each other , we 've been through a lot of sorrows life brought us and we've grown so so strong together and our love is growing each day.
We from the start told each other about our views on life and marriage and family and kids and I was glad that my boy was  and is ready to become hubby and he wanted kids and wants , unlike other guys in his age group and well you know western guys at 30 think they are 18 y.o. playing only PC games and going to the pubs , so I was thinking that my boy is teasure and he really is

Why it happened that I found him and fell in love, cos he wanted the same things which I want from life and just it was natural for us, no matter that we are from different cultures. In Moscow I never was a model , but I also never was ugly and had relations , they were just not successful in the way that my previous partner never wanted to marry in the nearest future and was just having fun and living his life frivolously so it was obvious for us to break up and I do not know , in Russia we have less normal guys than amount of women ....so  we have no choice but to look for guys abroad.

Well a little bit of these facts for you 

You know I would advise you to go to Russia preferably than to Ukraine just well you chose for yourself of course though

and of course answering your question you can find a woman  here , your age is just right for women in moscow , many girls wish that there would be more younger guys coming 

Best wishes to you  and good luck

Jazzy

[Bruce]

Friendly advice - if by age 30 you can not get it right in the USA then consider the FSU.  Look into yourself.  Chances are you are attracting the wrong women for a reason.  Improve yourself and you will have no problems attracting and keeping quality USA women  .

By the way, of course you could find someone in the FSU.  Just go over and have a nice vacation.  Marrying a girl from the FSU is an extremely serious undertaking.  The same problems you are having with USA girls will only become magnified with time by a FSU girl (after she calculatingly slice, dices and pickles you ie. takes you for all she can get out of you).  Stick to the advice in paragraph one.   

[Jazzyclassy]

Friendly advice - if by age 30 you can not get it right in the USA then consider the FSU.  Look into yourself.  Chances are you are attracting the wrong women for a reason.  Improve yourself and you will have no problems attracting and keeping quality USA women  .

I agree with Bruce at some point , but then again funny situation is not it all the guys here on this forum who found russian women should improve themselves in order to find quality women in the USA ...........

well in women's case it is a bit different as in Russia we do really lack of men's population here and simply not every girl can actually have any guy

But I also think that he can try and fine american girl and let's hope it will be successful and for good and here he can post about the things which attract him in Russia for example, or if he is already wanting to find russian girl why not, just he needs to be careful and serious about this matter

[docetae]

Welcome ! I will tell you a little more about my experience first ...nerd profile ... created a startup in France at 22, migrated to Canada after selling it at 24 and married to a canadian woman at 25.. divorced at 31. So my answer will be   simple : yes you will be able to find love ... a love that will last, less sure. Travel to fsu, learn russian and give you some time, creating a family is more complex than supporting a phd thesis.

[Todd]

Hi JGalt,

I read your post, and let me say that I can fully empathize with your situation. 
At 25, I was entering my last year of my PhD program at MIT.  In 1995, the Dorm
that I lived at had 400 residents  Forty were women, but they were typcially from
overseas and only dated within their racial groups or religions.  Thus, when all was
said and done, there were 10 very popular ladies who were open to dating. ...Of
course, all of them had someone.  Like you, I had a big name fellowship that made
things a bit easier for me.

I think that your search is possible, but here is a bit of advice. 

1.  Pay attention to the age range of someone.  Ignore anyone who is willing to date someone
10 years older than themselves.  (I know that some women are quite comfortable with 10-15
years older, but to try to get the most sincere possible people, look for less than 10 years.)

2. Emphasize that you don't plan to be a keyboard Romeo.  Mention in the opening letter that you
are planning to visit the FSU and give dates. 

3.  Definitely go on this trip regardless of the personal situation.  Go to places you want to visit
and experience, and have dating be a potential upside on the first trip.  Try to spend at least 2 weeks
on this first trip. 

4.  If at all possible, have a conversation with Russian women who participate on this site.  Ask them
what to do and not do.  Share your thoughts with them, and I'm sure they can help.  I would recommend
Jazzy especially as she mentioned that she is 24, which is close to the ideal age for you.

5.  Try to look for someone who has graduated from college.  If you are getting your PhD, you clearly value
education and intelligence, so you should look for this in others.

Hope this helps,

Todd

[JGalt]

Wow, this is a very active forum indeed!  Thanks for the friendly welcome everyone! 

The advice so far makes a lot of sense to me, especially the suggestion to learn to speak Russian.  That is probably a very good idea!  And it was very nice to hear a woman's perspective on this, so thanks Serebro and Jazzy!  Heck, I'll even admit that I agree with Bruce; I'm sure I could stand some self-improvement...     And he also may be right about waiting until I'm 30.  I'll have to think about that one.  And yes, I am absolutely certain that there some nice women here in the US for me (this is also what my friends and mom have been telling me for the past month, so everyone seems to be in agreement about this!) but I am also absolutely certain that I have no idea where to find them.  They aren't hanging out in my lab, and while there are (a few) nice girls in grad school with me they all have serious boyfriends.  Which reminds me... as Jazzy said, the male:female ratio doesn't favor the women in Russia -- trust me the same is true yet reversed at my university -- way too many guys, way too few girls (another good reason, besides the great education and career opportunities, that your daughter should continue her education Makkin, especially if she is an engineer!  She would have her pick of the guys in grad school  )

One of the main things that attracted me to these websites for meeting FSU women is the "simplicity" of the situation.  Okay, okay, I know it's not simple by traditional standards.  By "simplicity", I mean the women are looking for marriage and they're open about it (at least the honest ones... sorting between the honest and dishonest might prove to be not so simple, but I suppose I'll find that out soon enough...).  The women I'm interested in here in the US are ambitious and smart, just like the ones I'm looking for in the FSU, yet many women here seem to view marriage and "success" (meaning a great career, money, etc) as being mutually exclusive and thus are almost afraid of marriage and see it as a potential saboteur of their careers instead of a viewing in a positive way as a source of love and support.  And sure, with a foreign woman there are the complications of plane rides, visas, etc., but I've never been one to get bogged down in these sorts of details so they don't really bother me.  Besides, cultural differences aside, I think that people are fundamentally the same in that we all simply want to feel significant in some way.  It just seems to me that lots of American women attempt to feel this way by pursuing their career and (outsider's perspective only...) that many women in the FSU believe that a successful career is a very good thing, but to feel complete they must also have a family and raise children.  Does this sound about right?

In any case, I will continue to take this process seriously and be hopeful that something good will come of it.  I'm curious though -- Jazzy, why do you recommend Russian women over Ukrainian women?  Is this because you are Russian yourself?      Since I've been in grad school for three years, I have met several guys from Russia and other parts of the FSU but only two women from that part of the world so I'm still pretty clueless about the differences that may exist between a Russian and a Ukrainian woman for example.  Can you give me some insight?

[JGalt]

Todd -- thanks for the great advice!  I'll definitely put it into practice.  One question though, about setting a definite date to visit the FSU and going regardless of the personal situation - is that what you did?  Or do you know guys who did this?

[Jazzyclassy]

    why do you recommend Russian women over Ukrainian women?  Is this because you are Russian yourself?      Since I've been in grad school for three years, I have met several guys from Russia and other parts of the FSU but only two women from that part of the world so I'm still pretty clueless about the differences that may exist between a Russian and a Ukrainian woman for example.  Can you give me some insight?        

there are differences, many guys here will tell you otherwise , they will keep telling you that Ukrainian and Russia women are the same, which is nonsense, what I can tell you by now , there is a huge gap in cultural, moral values, education,  certain soul features, once again that is to my personal experience with Ukrainian  women as so called friends and as some colleagues at work

though you will find it out for yourself if you ever visit this both countries

[jb]

JGalt,

If you can stand a little comment from an older engineer, (my school days are long past), RWs and engineers are a good mix.

You are going to find many RWs with technical educations, with math and physics being the most common.  Russians almost seem to shun the notion of an "Arts" degree as being worthwhile. 

It would be helpful to know where you are attending, my oldest stepson (a little older than you are) is in grad school at this time, he has his EE from U of Utah.  He also has trouble finding a suitable dating partner within his field and spends most of his dating energy with females from the med school.   He also has a fellowship that gobbles up hours and his chief complaint is finding the free time for dating.  So you need to make sure you have enough time to devote to this enterprise, waiting until you are finished with school may be the best advice you've received here.

Todd,  a PhD from MIT,,, very impressive~!

[KenC]

there are differences, many guys here will tell you otherwise , they will keep telling you that Ukrainian and Russia women are the same, which is nonsense, what I can tell you by now , there is a huge gap in cultural, moral values, education,  certain soul features, once again that is to my personal experience with Ukrainian  women as so called friends and as some colleagues at work

though you will find it out for yourself if you ever visit this both countries

JGalt,
You will soon learn that there are many prejudices among people from the fsu.  A whole "pecking order" to which fsu country is good or bad.  A Muscovite will always lean toward Moscow being the center of the universe with all other locations further down the list.  Truth of the matter is that there is not much of a difference between, Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussian IMO.

You may also want to start qualifying your advisers here a bit too.  Make sure the people you are listening to actually know what they are talking about for starters.

At your age I am sure you will get quizzed down about your ability to support a family and such by RW.  You will find that most RW in your age group and even a little younger will be much more interested in marriage and children than the average AW.  My suggestion is not to give up hope entirely with AW, but look to the fsu as an additional source of women to meet.  (Read the FAQS section to get a good start here) Best of luck to you.
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

Truth of the matter is that there is not much of a difference between, Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussian IMO.

 

It is absolutely not truth , well it is the truth of KenC but not everybody

well as you can see above , that is what I was telling you , people have their points here, just do not be charmed by neither of them , always have your own head on your shoulders, eventually you will find out for yourself the difference between Ukrainian and Russia women

[KenC]

JGalt,
When my wife arrived here over 8 years ago, she too brought many of the same prejudices that Jazzy exhibits here now.  Over the years, through living in America, meeting people from many different fsu countries and having a different perspective of the issue her opinion has changed.  Some day we all hope that Jazzy's mind might open up a bit from it's rather closed state.
KenC

[KenC]

"Truth of the matter is that there is not much of a difference between, Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussian IMO."

It is absolutely not truth , well it is the truth of KenC but not everybody

well as you can see above , that is what I was telling you , people have their points here, just do not be charmed by neither of them , always have your own head on your shoulders, eventually you will find out for yourself the difference between Ukrainian and Russia women

OK Jazzy,
Since you seem to be claiming that there is a big difference between Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussians please explain in detail what the differences are.  Also include where you get your facts from please.
KenC

[BC]

OK Jazzy,
Since you seem to be claiming that there is a big difference between Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussians please explain in detail what the differences are.  Also include where you get your facts from please.
KenC

Maybe a good idea, and one that I would contribute to, but best dealt with outside this introduction thread.. or?

[KenC]

I agree with another thread, BC.
KenC

[JGalt]

Makes sense, Ken.  Maybe I should get a copy of my tax returns in pdf format to send to these women     Just kidding of course, but I do understand their concern.  If I were in their position I would certainly feel the same way about financial support.

JB - I'm always glad to take advice from a fellow engineer.  I've also been wondering if it would be best to wait until I'm out of school, but since I'm considering a career as a professor I really don't see that my life will become any less busy than it is now in the near future (actually, it could get much, much busier!).  So there might not even be a "best" timeframe for my search... but I have my program pretty much under control and while there are some extremely busy times, on average I feel that I have time for this... we'll see I guess!!  

As far as where I'm currently studying, I'd like to maintain a little bit of my anonymity so I'll just say it's a Big Ten school in the middle of the country.  Coincidentally, the cost of living is very affordable  I went to small college in New England a couple hours north of Boston for my bachelor's and master's degrees and decided that I wanted to come back closer to home to get my PhD before heading out into the world for good (wanted to see my family again for a few years).  Having had that experience out east, though, I can say that even here in America the part of the country that a girl is from has a noticeable influence on her outlook on life (there were lots of girls from NYC, California, etc., at my college).  Not to say that girls from one part of the country are better than those from another part, just that there are differences.  I'm guessing these differences are more akin to the differences between women in the FSU who are from capital cities vs. rural areas, and not necessarily differences between women from different countries?  I'd like to see that thread that Ken suggested about a more detailed explanation of differences between girls from different countries, so if it pops up let me know.

[KenC]

JGalt,
I think what you will find, as jb said, is that there will be an increased amount of respect for your degree in the fsu.  They seem to put more emphisis on education than we do here.
KenC

[Blues Fairy]

JGalt,

Welcome to the site, and congrats for your successful life, so far!

I believe I can reassure you.  My beautiful cousin married an American chap when she was 18 and he 24.  Five years later, their marriage is more strong and loving than ever after they both finished school (college for her, law school for him) and started their careers while renting an apartment in NYC the whole time.   

They met in Novosibirsk while she was a 2-year student at NSU and he was doing an exchange program at one of local software firms.  She barely spoke English at that time but her brilliant mind and golden heart just shone through, I guess.  He was smart and perceptive enough to recognize that.  Now at 23 she speaks English like a news anchor and earns a decent salary in one of Manhattan art museums.  And did I mention she was a beauty?  

Just take patience and search for a smart kid like my cousin and everything will be fine.

[Todd]

I did my undergrad in Michigan at a Big Ten school prior to coming out to Boston.

My approach was different than most of the people here.  I was actively dating but not dating seriously in the
US at the time I decided that I really wanted to visit the FSU.  I had always wanted to visit this part of the world, and I was looking for places that I hadn't been yet.  At the time that I visited my wife, I had
been dating two other people for a couple of months in the US.  Both are great women; one is a journalist and the other is a Harvard professor, but I hadn't gotten to the stage of committing to anything.  (I'm actually still
friends with Harvard professor.)

I had decided to visit the FSU at the time that I did because I had a great deal of vacation time built up at work.  My 2 stepfathers and father died of cancer within 3 years of each other, and I was looking for a break.
As a result, I had to curb my international travel during these 3 years, and I was sitting on a great deal of vacation time that had to be used.  In the past, I had combined the internet and dating before (Iceland and New Zealand), but I really hadn't much luck.  I decided that I wanted my first trip to be around Labor Day so I placed an ad on July 1 st.  I received numerous responses, but I soon had the list pared down to 4 people in areas that I wanted to visit.  I chose to visit my soon to be wife first in Belarus because she was the easiest to talk with.  (The next trip was planned for early November.) Anyway, I spent a couple of weeks with Kate in Belarus and had a wonderful time.  When I got back to the US, I realized that the two women that I was dating in the US were not nearly as compelling as Kate was.  So, I stopped seeing the two women in the US right away to be fair to them.  I also decided to visit Kate again in November in Moscow, then December in Prague, then May in Poland, and then June in Vilnius.  I can say without a doubt that I will never have a prettier or more knowledgeable tour guide.

Thus, I would definitely recommend travelling to the FSU.  The sooner, the better.  Have fun, learn more about the people and the country, and, if you meet someone extraordinary, so much the better.  If you can combine this with some sort of college activity, you might even be able to write-off the expense.  (

Learning Russian would be a good thing, but just remember, all educated women are likely to speak at least some English.   I've been married for two years, and I know about 30 or 40 words of Russian so far whereas my wife is studying for the GRE at the moment and has been quizzing me on vocabulary.

Well, I need to get back to work.  Best of luck,

Todd

[ScottinCrimea]

I would be a little careful accepting Jazzy's prejudices.  for example, my wife was born and raised in Ukraine though she considers herself Russian as her family is all from Russia originally, as do many women in Ukraine, especially the eastern and southern parts.  So where would she fit in Jazzy's mind?  My wife notes some slight differences in Ukrainian versus Russian women, but in my two years of living in Ukraine I really didn't notice any.  It may be something that is more noticeable to FSUW but not important or relevant to AM.

You need to understand that the typical FSUM is in no position financially, socially or emotionally to take on a family so the FSUW women you contact may see your age and relate it to their experiences with FSUM.  You would be better off to stick to women who are a minimum of 24 years old.  They finish school at age 17 and most professional programs are 6 years in length so at age 23-24 they will be finishing up their education and open to other options including marriage.  Those that are not so serious about their education will be in a party mode during this time, enjoying the attention of the young men without serious thought about marriage so they need a couple of years to get this out of their systems.

NOt all FSUW place family as a priority over career, but there is a MUCH higher percentage than in the US.  There are women in the US that have the qualities that you desire, but I believe that you will have an easier time finding the type of woman you describe in the FSU than in the US.  I see nothing wrong with widening the field, and I believe that FSUW have qualities unique to them that put them head and shoulders above most AW.

I disagree completely with Bruce's comment about how FSUW will eat you alive.  I think this applies more to AW, certainly in my experience.  If you do your homework and keep your head about you, you should be fine.

[WmGO]

JGAlt,

Personally, I don't understand why any WM under 30 or 35
years old would even *think* about the FSU and FSUW. You are
26, not even scratching the surface of your working days/career.

I would add that the phenom you mentioned about AW being gun shy
about marriage and wanting to focus on career is more myth than reality
in America. Yes, I am sure that might be true of a woman who is working
on or just earned a *doctorate* level degree, but it is simply not true of the
vast overwhelming majority of American women who are over 22-24 years old.

My advice would be to write off FSUland for now. Focus on becoming
established in your career. If at age 30 you still have not found a wife,
then yes maybe consider FSUW. But beware, *most* FSUW are not the gems
that the agencies and other propagandists make them out to be. And the cultural
differences in terms of mentality are VERY different.

As far as age differences, although I agree with what the one fellow said about
trying to keep it close to 10 years and never over 15, that obviously would not apply to you being 26. BUT, please be aware that FSUW under 24 or 25 years old should be avoided like the plague.

Good luck.

P.S. There is no real difference between Russia west of the Urals, Belarus
and Ukraine. Any such differences there are are slight and minimal - like the
differences you would see between a big American city and a small town, or
two different States .......... you as a travelor would be hard pressed to even
pick up on the subtle differences....the bottom line is that the cultural MENTALITY is the same virtually anywhere you go in the FSU.....

[JGalt]

Interesting points WmGO and Scott -- over the past month I did notice that women younger than 23 were much less interested in me than women who were 23 or 24.  I only managed to strike up a conversation with one 21 year old; all the others were at least 23.

Also, WmGO, you're right about most women in the US not being gun shy about marriage. But I have really only dated women who either were planning on or currently pursuing an advanced degree of some sort (science/medicine/law).  They seem to be the ones that I have the most in common with, yet unfortunately they're also much more likely to have prejudices against marriage.  Perhaps I'm crazy for looking in the FSU, but I've never been one to  wait around and hope for things to miraculously get better at some future point in time.  If I run into a roadblock, I try to find a way around it.  Life is short and looking abroad seems like a good opportunity if I'm savvy enough to avoid the pitfalls.

Todd, I'm sorry to hear about your father and stepfathers.  My father died of cancer two years ago, so I know what it's like.  Watching that happen makes you grow up in a hurry.

And Blues Fairy, thanks for the kind words.  It's reassuring to hear a story like that