Turbo - Keep us Posted . . .

[Admin]

Actually guys .... I understood she was joking about the "smoking" part of smokinghotkova immediately when I read her post.

Not a big deal, in any case - but I really did recognize her play on words instantly.

Just FWIW

- Dan

[BC]

Actually guys .... I understood she was joking about the "smoking" part of smokinghotkova immediately when I read her post.

Not a big deal, in any case - but I really did recognize her play on words instantly.

Just FWIW

- Dan

I thought she was talking about such:

[KenC]

Actually guys .... I understood she was joking about the "smoking" part of smokinghotkova immediately when I read her post.

Not a big deal, in any case - but I really did recognize her play on words instantly.

Just FWIW

- Dan

Well. I read her post 3 times to try and not come to the conclusion I did and I see no evidence of "tongue in cheek."  When half the people laugh at your joke and the other half think you are an idiot, how good is the joke?
KenC

[Turboguy]

All I can say Ken is that I understood it instantly and I thought it was funny enough that I shared it with my family and some friends and they all understood it.  Dan and BC understood it.   Only you and Jazzy seemed lost in the understanding of it.  I guess it falls back to the saying, birds of a feather flock together.   

[Shadow]

I was unsure about it being a joke or real.
But I am sure that the reason the women are seen smoking is that Moscow is starting to follow American smoking laws. 

[Gator]

Blues Fairy advised,

I hope you include education level and professionalism in your list of HOT characteristics.

For sure I include them.  In fact, I attach much significance.  My four primary criteria for a woman are "brains, beauty, sense of humor and honesty".   Education and professionalism can be considered indicators for brains, yet they are not surrogates.  Much more is involved.  For example, common sense is not common.

Sorry Turbo, going way off topic here.   Obviously I misunderstood VWRW too and should not have mentioned the smoking hot Muscovites. 

I think we can cut VWRW a little slack.  Part of education is to get away from the books, dive into real life, make some mistakes, and learn from them.

[Son of Clyde]

Hey, I have seen some smoking hot looking Russian women that smoke cigarettes.

Not a very good thing for the health though.

[Turboguy]

It is real in the sense that she noticed a lot of women in the street smoking where in her city that is considered to be poor manners and not ladylike.

Moscow and Russia do seem to be following the footsteps of America in many ways.  They too are getting more restrictions and are making it more difficult for smokers which does provide some extra motivation for people to quit.

Jazzy, don't take my comment as anything negative about you.  I felt you posted your comments with the intention to be helpful and wanted to help VWRW understand something you thought she did not.  I appreciate that.  I do think of you as perhaps a little less experienced in life than some of us old fogeys and sometimes a little too opinionated but I also think of you as very intelligent and sometimes your posts show a lot of wisdom.  Ken's post on the other had seemed partially motivated at helping her understand what he felt she did not and half with purposes less noble.   Anyway Jazzy, I could not resist throwing a barb back at Ken and I do want to apologize to you for using your name in part of my humor.  I am always glad to see you express your opinion and thanks for trying to be helpful.    

Blues Fairy,  I agree with what you say that the better schools in Moscow tend to attract the brightest subjects.   Personally I think education and intelligence are two separate things and to me the relative importance is something that each person has to decide.   I would also expect that not everyone who qualifies as one of the brightest subjects gets the chance to go to Moscow for their education.   

Gator, I agree, making mistakes is one of the greatest way to learn and I have to question how much learning someone can get without making them.

I am curious though.   When you said "brains, beauty, sense of humor and honesty", is that also the order or just a general listing?

[vwrw]

VWRW,

I understood you.  And we should follow the Russian custom of not congratulating you until DHL delivers you your visa.

Moscow women are indeed HOT.  The reasons:

1.  Moscow women know more than village girls about how to dress, apply makeup, style their hair, posture themselves, etc.  They see examples every day among their peers, hair salons are better trained, etc.
2.  There is more money in Moscow, and RW can make a better salary there than in villages.   They have more discretionary money for looking good.
3.  In fact, there is an incredible amount of money in Moscow.  And many women are sponsored by wealthy men.  Part of keeping a woman is dressing her up.  There are kept women in villages, but the keepings are less.  I was waiting near a club late one night, and chauffeured Benz after Benz drove up with long-legged beauties dressed to the nines (most with a much older and not so physically fit man). 
4.  As in New York and Los Angeles, many young women with a pretty face and bolshoi aspirations migrate there from the villages, so the "hot" DNA is improving in Moscow and sliding in the villages.

Except for reason number 4, the only difference between village women and Moscow women is money and knowledge.  However, those two factors are HUGE.  They command so much importance in life for people everywhere. 

There are many diamonds in the rough waiting to be discovered in villages. 

Based on personal observations, I do not believe the women in Moscow are as HOT (on average) as they were 5 years ago.  Then again, I do not go out at 2 am when the real partying just begins.

Thank you, KenC.

Gator,
I am curious if you could find a woman who drives Benz and wears a 5000$ sexy dress but has short legs, fat ass, fat waistline, and green skin (due to smoking) to be HOT one?? I think you could not…so as I think you are not a male-gold-digger.
I saw a show “Beauty surgery” a few times, where were demonstrated how “monkeys” turned into almost beauties. So, of course I will not debate with you that the money and the knowledge may make women to be hot. 

However, I have a  suspicion that most of the long-legged beauties you saw near a club were NOT less hot even before they met the not so physically fit men. Maybe I am naive but I do believe that at most cases the hotness of a woman is a CAUSE why she got into the Benz and into the expensive dresses, NOT a consequence… I do believe that at most cases the not so physically fit man met the long-legged beauties and thought “wow! She is hot. I want to have her”…and not “wow! she is a monkey…but I gonna invest money into her to make her hotty!” 

I am also curious if the money and the knowledge are matters that make women to be hot…then why American women do not become the hottest in the world?

From Gator: Based on personal observations, I do not believe the women in Moscow are as HOT (on average) as they were 5 years ago.

vwrw: Hmmm, interesting! Could you be so kind to tell us your opinion why it could happen that the women in Moscow are not as HOT (on average) as they were 5 years ago??

1.   Most Moscow women have a better salary now than 5 years ago.
2.   Women still have an opportunity to learn to be hot, the salons, ect.
3.   The wealthy men still have the long-legged beauties and sponsor them.
So, what is the problem, Gator??

[Turboguy]

I am also curious if the money and the knowledge are matters that make women to be hot…then why American women do not become the hottest in the world?

Nice post VWRW.  I think you came up with some interesting thoughts.  I have to think the one I quoted could make for some interesting answers.

[KenC]

Sorry Turbo, going way off topic here.   Obviously I misunderstood VWRW too and should not have mentioned the smoking hot Muscovites. 

I think we can cut VWRW a little slack.  Part of education is to get away from the books, dive into real life, make some mistakes, and learn from them.

Gator,
I sincerely tried to cut her some slack until "Big Daddy" came in with his BS.  A tad bit over protective now, aint we?
KenC

[Blues Fairy]

Blues Fairy,  I agree with what you say that the better schools in Moscow tend to attract the brightest subjects.   Personally I think education and intelligence are two separate things and to me the relative importance is something that each person has to decide.   I would also expect that not everyone who qualifies as one of the brightest subjects gets the chance to go to Moscow for their education.   

Agree on both points.  But out of two equally bright provincial girls, I would expect the one who winds up in Moscow would be the more dynamic, fearless and open-minded.  The qualities I tend to include in the notion of "bright". 

[Admin]

Agree on both points.  But out of two equally bright provincial girls, I would expect the one who winds up in Moscow would be the more dynamic, fearless and open-minded.  The qualities I tend to include in the notion of "bright". 

My guess (only a guess), is that you are correct.

I wonder ... would not the same principle apply to men traveling abroad? Maybe even those men who seek a life partner abroad?

Just a thought.

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

My guess (only a guess), is that you are correct.

I wonder ... would not the same principle apply to men traveling abroad? Maybe even those men who seek a life partner abroad?

Just a thought.

- Dan

Dunno 'bout that one. We sure have seen more than our share of low wattage light bulbs show up here and I (and many others as well) have seen more than I want to while in the FSU.

I also would not say that being adventurous has anything to do one way or the other with being bright. I know plenty of very bright people who have no desire to see the world and are quite happy further investigating the world they know.

I am also curious if the money and the knowledge are matters that make women to be hot…then why American women do not become the hottest in the world?

For a good many of them that would mean taking care of themselves, getting over the feminazi attitudes, and embracing their femininity, actually wearing something other than sweat pants and baggy shirts. Ain't gonna happen.

FWIW,
 Ken

[Photo Guy]

Turbo and VWVR,

Great to hear the good news!
Best of luck in the States. I hope her adjustment
goes well and you have many fantastic years together. -Doug

[Gator]

This is Turbo and VWRW's thread for celebration.   Although it is not about me, I will answer their questions:

why it could happen that the women in Moscow are not as HOT (on average) as they were 5 years ago??

Perhaps the novelty has worn off,

perhaps I sleep earlier and miss all the action,

perhaps the provincial immigrates are arriving faster than the capacity of the “learn how to be beautiful” machine can work,

perhaps the overpowering traffic congestion has distracted me,

and perhaps, NO PERHAPS BUT DEFINITELY....

because when I am with my Moscow woman I do not see other women.

"brains, beauty, sense of humor and honesty", is that also the order or just a general listing?

All are equally important.  I have threshold standards for each, and anything above that is a bonus.  I am not on an endless search to find the most beautiful or to optimize all four because there is so much more beyond these categories to make a relationship work.   Nevertheless, there is no way that I could be happy with a beauty contest winner who does not have intellectual curiosity (well maybe for a weekend I could be happy).  While I appreciate intelligence and SOH, I still must find my woman attractive physically, and she to me.  Honesty comes at the end of this list only because it has been the most elusive. 

[Gator]

Now that the “smoke” has cleared (sorry for the pun), I find VWRW’s little mistake humorous and also indicative of the adjustment struggle that RW face when coming here. 

English is difficult enough, and then add idioms and vernacular. 

What will VWRW make of:  rolling stone and moss, sound like broken record (you are perhaps too young to ever comprehend that one), ambulance chaser, lap dog, red herring, lame duck, ax to grind, pig in a poke, albatross around your neck, kick the bucket ….and a thousand more.

[mspanky]

Thank you, KenC.

Gator,
I am curious if you could find a woman who drives Benz and wears a 5000$ sexy dress but has short legs, fat ass, fat waistline, and green skin (due to smoking) to be HOT one?? I think you could not…so as I think you are not a male-gold-digger.
I saw a show “Beauty surgery” a few times, where were demonstrated how “monkeys” turned into almost beauties. So, of course I will not debate with you that the money and the knowledge may make women to be hot. 

However, I have a  suspicion that most of the long-legged beauties you saw near a club were NOT less hot even before they met the not so physically fit men. Maybe I am naive but I do believe that at most cases the hotness of a woman is a CAUSE why she got into the Benz and into the expensive dresses, NOT a consequence… I do believe that at most cases the not so physically fit man met the long-legged beauties and thought “wow! She is hot. I want to have her”…and not “wow! she is a monkey…but I gonna invest money into her to make her hotty!” 

I am also curious if the money and the knowledge are matters that make women to be hot…then why American women do not become the hottest in the world?

From Gator: Based on personal observations, I do not believe the women in Moscow are as HOT (on average) as they were 5 years ago.

vwrw: Hmmm, interesting! Could you be so kind to tell us your opinion why it could happen that the women in Moscow are not as HOT (on average) as they were 5 years ago??

1.   Most Moscow women have a better salary now than 5 years ago.
2.   Women still have an opportunity to learn to be hot, the salons, ect.
3.   The wealthy men still have the long-legged beauties and sponsor them.
So, what is the problem, Gator??

VWRW, Congrats to you and Turbo.

I am going to tell you a very funny story about what you have described. One of the past most successful "plastic surgery makeover shows" happened to feature a young good-looking doctor of which I am familiar. He has had the most beautiful women throwing themselves at him. Odly enough, he fell in love with a young gal who was anything but beautiful. After  2 nose jobs,lip filler,chin reduction and raising her eyebrows though she was under 30,3 sets of breast implants,liposuction and whaever else he did to her,this girl became a ready to order beauty. She came out of her shell and since she was begining to get so much attention became a huge flirt,getting tons of male attention whe was so lacking before. Thanks to him!

  She then hooked up with a friend of his who is even richer(probably worth a cool 40 million or so) and dumped him!! It was an ego bust for him, but so ironic as his tv show is exactly what he does. makes women go from ugly to fabulous.

  Now I have seen a show with Dr. Rey called Doctor 90210. He is also a very good looking and very rich plastic surgeon
http://www.reysanatomy.com/index.asp?PageAction=COMPANY

 In watching his show I noticed though he and the wife are very attractive, the children are a bit "average" in looks. I wonder if his wife was below average and he did his magic on her too. As those childrens genetics puzzle me. Also, the wife's parents were on the show and they were just plain ugly too.

  I guess you will be very suprised when you get to the U.S. and see so many ugly fat women driving 5 or 6 series Merceds Benz. I still scratch my head when I see this. Or seeing men who are married the second time around marry women who are their age and not that attractive. Even if the man is a CEO.


 Mark Burnett who is worth 100's of millions of dollars after he produced "Survivor" series is ealy 40's no kids married a woman who is not only older, but already had 2 kids. Pop Star "Usher at 27 also worth 10's of millions married a woman over 10 years older already with 3 kids, now pregnant with their 4th! Stories here will amaze you.
  

[Turboguy]

First off thanks PG.

Gator, It is fine with me if we go off track in this thread and I think a thread that helps in understanding is one that is more interesting than one filled with "Congratulations" which of course are always welcome.

I think when I read your search criteria the thing that had me asking about the order was that honesty came last.  Now I have to ask if that is the one that has been illusive, why it was last.  I too found that illusive in FSU women.  I thought originally that Luda had it and it was one of the things that drew me to her.  In the end I found when it came to money she was totally honest.  When it came to other things she was as far from honest as could be. 

That could make an interesting poll or thread sometimes.  Name 4 things that you consider the most important in your search in order.   I think mine would be honesty, compatability, chemistry and brains although I have to say in the case of VWRW I was particularly attracted to her brains and her wisdom. 
 
You would be surprised how many times in the letters from VWRW she will have a little section asking me to explain some American idioms.   Some of the ones she asks about make me laugh.  There are so many I am sure that all will not come overnight. 

[Bruno]

Just read these topic...

No congrats from me... but a wish of good luck and a lot of courage...

Finaly, you have finish the first stage... now, the real work will begin...

Living together 24/24 hours, 7 days on 7, years after years... is not the easy task... nothing similar to these numerous holiday's that you have spend together... the real life will begin soon... some days will be bright but be ready for the dark one...

Create a relationship is the easy step... keep it working until the last of your day is the real challenge !

Quote from: Admin

I wonder ... would not the same principle apply to men traveling abroad? Maybe even those men who seek a life partner abroad?

I don't think so... grass seem always more green at the other side of the fence... but in reality, all grass are the same... and on both side, you have some weed...

When i see my own life... first, around 10 year dating foreign ladies ( time in Navy )... followed by 10 year dating/marriage/divorcing/dating-again FSU ladies... all of my life, i have try to use the difficult way... but recently, i have discover that my own grass taste very good and is more easy to reach.... now, i am with a local lady ( and she is not a fat feminazi ) ...

The fact of only "seeking a life partner abroad" is not something bright... "seeking a life partner localy and abroad" is bright... chance of success is more big if you expand your hunting ground, not if you replace one hunting ground by a other one ( more difficult to reach )...

Quote from: vwrw

I saw a show “Beauty surgery” a few times, where were demonstrated how “monkeys” turned into almost beauties.

Very true... below, picture of me "before" and "after" ( for information, if you have some doubt, the left one is "before" )



Seeing my second photo, i understand why vwrw wrote "almost"

 

[SANDRO43]

I too found that illusive in FSU women.

T/G, typo or Freudian slip ?

Adj. Illusive - based on or having the nature of an illusion; "illusive hopes of finding a better job

Honesty comes at the end of this list only because it has been the most elusive.

[Jet]

What will VWRW make of:  rolling stone and moss, sound like broken record (you are perhaps too young to ever comprehend that one), ambulance chaser, lap dog, red herring, lame duck, ax to grind, pig in a poke, albatross around your neck, kick the bucket ….and a thousand more.

...and Liliya's personal favorite "Don't be blue". Same idiom, completely different meaning in English and Russian 

[Jet]

I am also curious if the money and the knowledge are matters that make women to be hot…then why American women do not become the hottest in the world?

This is an interesting question, as my wife is frequently accused by other female teachers at her workplace of "making the rest of us look bad" by wearing heels and dresses to work instead of sneakers and sweat pants  . Conversely, I think a lot of women have the opinion that once they have "gotten their man" the work is over, because the threat of a Divorce where she can take half his assets, and the threat of child support where she can take half his income for the next 20+ years, is enough to keep him around. I honestly don't know, but always find it amusing when Lil comes home with a story like yesterday: It seems a 220lb "grey mouse" found the need to comment to my wife about her lovely dress "You look great in that! I bet you'd look really fantastic if you started going to the Gym!" Who the hell does this 100kg sloth think she is, making a comment like that to a woman that's 56kg(125lb) and 173cm(5'8")? This woman probably wouldn't benefit from a year of trips to the Gym 

[Jet]

But out of two equally bright provincial girls, I would expect the one who winds up in Moscow would be the more dynamic, fearless and open-minded. 

I wonder ... would not the same principle apply to men traveling abroad? Maybe even those men who seek a life partner abroad?

Just a thought.

- Dan

Nah, that's why full service marriage agencies have been such a big business! No need to be  more dynamic, fearless, and open-minded, if you can afford to pay someone else to level the playing field 

*Before everyone gets all offended* One still needs to be  more dynamic, fearless, and open-minded, if you you are going to start and maintain a cross cultural relationship, the marriage agencies only afford you a *shot* at making it happen, just like having the opportunity to sit for the entrance exams at MSU doesn't automatically mean you'll receive your degree from there.

[BillyB]

I'm sure many RW's first attempt at a joke in another language may not be understood by all but one should be tolerant of that especially if she's your wife.

The only time I smoke is when I'm on fire.

Gator, I thought you subscribed to the four B's of women. Boobs, brains, beauty and boobs.

Wish you the best TG and VWRW. And that is not a joke.