Am I being overcharged and lied to?

[Majestic]

Hello

I was a little unsure where I should post this. I was hesitant to put it in the “Suspect Agencies” group because I don’t know if anyone has done anything wrong yet.
However, I do suspect misconduct, so I guess this is the right place.

Also, I apologize in advance for the long explanatory post, but I have two questions that are bothering me and I feel a full explanation of them would be useful to anyone who wishes to understand the situation and help me out.


I have been writing to a lady in Ukraine for several weeks and she recently asked me if I would telephone her through the agency; of course I would love to talk with her so I agreed and told her I would contact the agency to make arrangements.

The agency response has raised a couple questions for me and I am hoping some of you here can help me out with some information or advice.


First, what is the standard, or at least a reasonable, cost of a translated telephone call through an agency?

The agency responded that they charge $1.50 per minute for the call  . I do not want to seem cheap, but $90 an hour for a telephone call seems a bit ridiculous! I figure even a short conversation will take 30 minutes and leave a $45 bill. Am I wrong, or is this a little out of line?


Second, something the manager wrote in the email bothers me, especially when I consider it in context with the high cost of the call…

My lady’s profile reads that she knows “fair” English. I know this term is used inconsistently and can mean either quite a bit or not much at all, so I intended to ask my girl what her level of English was, but I never did because the agency led me to believe she knew English.

Through this agency, when you submit a letter that needs to be translated, the translated letter is listed together with your original in a “sent letters” area of your member page. However, all the letters I have written to this lady are listed with a comment where the translated letter should be; the comment reads: “Lady knows English”

Therefore I naturally concluded that my letters are not being translated because she knows English. However, when I wrote the agency regarding the telephone call, they responded saying that we would need an interpreter because my lady “does not know English at all and all of your letters are translated in the agency” (exact quote).

There is an obvious and suspicious contradiction here. If she does not know English, why are there no translated letters posted for all of the letters I sent – only the comment “Lady knows English”? However, if she does know English, meaning that the translator comment is correct, then why would they say she does not and insist I need a translator? ???

I see no other explanation except that one or the other is a lie. And if I was to guess, I would guess the lie is her not knowing English to justify a $1.50 per minute telephone call. I have a couple other possible theories, but this seems the most likely.

I have written the agency asking for a clarification of the inconsistency, but they have not yet responded. I have not mentioned my concern to my lady because I do not want to accidentally get her caught up in a possible problem between me and the agency; but I will ask her English level in my next letter to her.

Can anyone help me understand why there would be such a dramatic contradiction?


For anyone who answers, I appreciate your time and help.


David

[Kuna]

David,

First of all welcome to RWD. It's nice to see a newbie ask questions instead of unwittingly become a victim of a scam.

I can't say if your situation is actually a scam but it does seem odd.  Either she can or can't speak English...  it'd be nice to know if you're corresponding with her with a view to developing a relationship.

When I was in search mode I never used agencies that charge per letter because I knew it would either be ridiculously expensive or I wouldn't know a lady well enough prior to visiting.

By the way... I also chose not to write to anyone that didn't speak at least some English.  You'd be surprised how quickly a girls English improves when you start corresponding.  before you know it you're actually communicating.   

In your case I wouldn't be using a translator for the phone calls for 2 reasons:

1. You believe your letters are not being translated, and;

2. Her profile said "fair English".

You shouldn't expect your first few phone calls to last a long time or be filled with complex conversatons but they will come in time. 

I find it a little odd the lady you are writing to asked you to phone through the agency and then you find out it's a $90 per hour translator...  All sounds a bit suspect to me.

Which agency are you using?

How long have you been using them?

How long have you been writing to this girl?

Do you get MANY responses to your own profile?

Did you lad contact you first or did you contact her?

What is your age difference?

Is she overly affectionate in your correspondence?

Has she asked for or you volunteered to send money?

With some more background it might be easier to understand what might be happening so I hope you don't mind me asking so many questions...

Best of luck,

Kuna

[wxman]

Seems you have been given inconsistent/contradictory information, and perhaps deceived. Personally, if someone gave me inconsistent/contradictory information, I would expect a quick clarification from that person that can also be backed up. In your case, I would wish to speak to the woman, free of charge, to prove one way or the other whether she knew english or not. This company has given you inconsistent/contradictory information, and now it's up to them to straighten the mess on their nickel. Otherwise adios.

[Serebro]

Business based on foreign men looking for wives is the main branch of the industry in the Ukraine. People make money of nothing, of air:tell lies, create fake profiles, make you pay extra-money for apartments and interpretors.I have already told about that here but noone seems to care.

[rambo]

David,

Your situation does not seem that strange to me. Here's why.

1. I know at least one agency in Ukraine that charges approx. $100 per hour for a phone conversation via the agency interpreter. Obviously, I would recommend that everyone avoid agencies that do not allow people to exchange contact information such as phone numbers and email addresses and insist that all communication go through the agency.

2. Your lady friend may have some knowledge of English, perhaps enough to roughly understand letters, but she does not feel confident enough with her level of English to be able to have a phone conversation with you. Or maybe she is afraid that she will say something that will sound stupid to you. However, even if her spoken English is good enough for a conversation, there are agencies that put pressure on the girls to say they need an interpreter so that the agency can make more money.

Of course, the best thing would be if you could get your friend's home/mobile number and either talk to her directly via a 3-way call using an interpreter of your choosing based in your country of residence. But based on what you have shared so far, I would be very very surprised if the agency would allow your friend to give you her number.

Good luck!

[wxman]

Business based on foreign men looking for wives is the main branch of the industry in the Ukraine. People make money of nothing, of air:tell lies, create fake profiles, make you pay extra-money for apartments and interpretors.I have already told about that here but noone seems to care.

Serebro,

I think many people here care about what you have told us. Your words ring true with many agencies, and those bad agencies ruin the reputation of the few honest ones. The unfortunate ones using the bad agencies, sometimes do not want to face the fact that the person they are writing is an illusion, or that they are too smart to be scammed.

[Serebro]

Serebro,

I think many people here care about what you have told us. Your words ring true with many agencies, and those bad agencies ruin the reputation of the few honest ones. The unfortunate ones using the bad agencies, sometimes do not want to face the fact that the person they are writing is an illusion, or that they are too smart to be scammed.

That's why there are threads about scam agencies and good ones on
RWD

[Rvrwind]

That's why there are threads about scam agencies and good ones on
RWD

Which don't seem to work because has I have noted on many occasions guys still use the scam agencies knowing full well they are a scam. They get what they got comin' & nothing more!
As for David well the English part is all relative. A Russian persons assessment of another Russian persons English ability is skewed from the get go. Many Russians think that a person that speaks 50 words in English has fair English, even though they can't tie those 50 words together to form a reasonable conversation. My idea of "fair English" & heir idea are at the opposite ends of the pole.
Also as was mentioned above, many can read & write in English, some very well,  have one such lady I am teaching at present. Her problem being she cannot speak or understand it well. This is due to a lack of practise using & listening to the spoken word, but give her a book & she can read & understand it as well as you or me. Tell her o writ a report on it in English & I have seen native English speakers hat could not do as well,but ask her to give that report verbally in English & we have a big problem. This is quite common here.
As for the cost of your phone call, not out of line at all in my opinion, especially if an interpreter is involved. We charge 50 roubles per hour for such calls, which at one time was cheap but due to the falling # is as of today close to $2.00 per minute. Although that seems excessive to you I point out that is not our problem. Your government has devalued your $ & although you pay more for our services our prices have remained the same even though some of our expenses have gone up, which reminds me I must raise some of ours due to recent rate hikes to the masses.
I think that the company should allow a 5 minute call to here on their dime so that you youself can make an assessment of her English level & decide for yourself if you will need an interpreter or not. I would certainly not be adverse to that if I were the company involved & to ease your mind on the ethical questions.
As you made no mention of the company name I am adverse to telling you to walk away BUT I am also aware that the whole thing could be a scam & your calling them on it is their way of keeping you on the hook for a little longer. If it is a known scam agency then my advice would be to RUN & quit filling their pockets with gold, but as is I cannot advise that at this time.
Good Luck with whatever your decision & welcome to RWD!

[SANDRO43]

I have been writing to a lady in Ukraine for several weeks and she recently asked me if I would telephone her through the agency; of course I would love to talk with her so I agreed and told her I would contact the agency to make arrangements.

David, how did she couch her request ? What is out of the blue, or did her previous letters hint that she would enjoy a more direct contact ?

Many agencies make most of their revenue by monopolising mail/phone exchaanges, some to the extent of sending staff-written letters (see my recent experience at http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5769.0) or even impersonating the woman in question. Have you asked/checked if she has her profile on other sites that are less intrusive ?

Do you know her family name ? If she's from Odessa, you migh find her listed here: http://russianwomendiscussion.com/wiki/index.php?Telephone%20Directories.

[BillyB]

David, you want a good answer to your question then we need more detail. What agency are you using?

If your woman cares about you, she will be happy to try to save you some dollars if you find a cheaper translator. $90 is a lot of money in Ukraine and there are some instances where the woman gets a percentage of your money. Beware if she tries to keep you on the phone for a long time talking about nonsense.

Here's a translator that has a good reputation on the forum and will let you use your own calling card http://www.russiangaltranslations.com/index2.html She's $25 and hour and is looking out for your best interest and can give you an idea, based on how the lady talks, if she's sincere. She will be working for you. She also lives in the States and can correctly interpret what you say. Some agencies interpreters are FSU college age students still not honed in the art of translation.

[Kevin]

$90hrs is high,  I charge $25hr and that includes the interpertor and video/phone chat.   At the same time the cost involved in having a agency is high and $90 today is about a tank of gas.  Compare this to what we pay in the USA for any form of professional services. (Mechanic $80hr, Doctor $75-$80 (5 Min).

What you need to consider is a lady with "Fair English" often relies on time and a dictionairy to read your letters. On the phone it is going to be harder for her to understand and "mind translate" each word.  I can speak Enough Russian to get by in Person but I'm not sure if I order Pizza over the phone I would get Pizza delivered to my home.  Point I'm trying to make is phone conversations require a higher level of English then reading.

My advice is a simple phone call doesn't really show the lady level or interest or prove you are really speaking to the lady. Stick with Video chats with voice or video chat/phone chat. It give you the best results.

[SANDRO43]

This thread gave me the idea of initiating one on "Circumventing Agency Censorship
". Stay tuned .

[Simoni]

David,
"Fair English" usually means very little English.

The cost of $1.50 a minute is on the high side, but not by too much.  Phone costs to Ukraine are very high, and even with a phone card, the costs for a quality connection approaches 30 cents a minutes.   If you add the terp, I can see where the cost would be at least a dollar a minute.

Forget the $150 an hour example.  Your call to a girl you hardly know will not last that long--more likely 10 to 15 minutes.

Now, a warning.  Finding and marrying an FSU woman is VERY expensive.  And the expenses only begin when you get her here. 

So keep all that in mind as you pursue a girl there.

Good luck!

~Si

[Kevin]

Ask if the agency can use skype or yahoo for the call. My kherson office has a skype phone with a US phone number for clients. This helps reduce the long distance calls.

[Rvrwind]

Ask if the agency can use skype or yahoo for the call. My kherson office has a skype phone with a US phone number for clients. This helps reduce the long distance calls.

If you don't mind me asking Kevin,how did you set that up?
I can't even get Skype to work here & surely would like to, would be able to lower those fees considerably.
Sorry for going

[Kevin]

To setup skype in Ukraine or Voyager phone, Just create an account in the USA and pay for the unlimted calls version. Then have the office in Ukraine use the login/password for the account. For Voyager just send them the phone once the account is setup.

The also helps the clients who need to call home.

Kevin

[Majestic]

Thank you all so much for the replies.

I think the biggest point of my confusion is not so much her “fair” English and what that means. I agree that perhaps she can make her way through a letter but not be confident about speaking on the telephone. My worry was raised by what seemed to be a direct contradiction made by the agency in combination with what seemed to be a rather expensive charge for a telephone call.

The agency clearly indicated that my letters were not being translated because they wrote “Lady knows English” where a translated version of my letter should be. But then, the agency manager clearly stated in her email that my girl “does not know English at all and all of your letters are translated in the agency.” I see this as a direct contradiction to the “Lady knows English” when I send her my letters.

Maybe this is an honest misunderstanding, hopefully I will get a response from the agency manager on Monday to clarify the situation.

It just seemed that $1.50 per minute for a phone call ($90 an hour) was exceedingly high; and in combination with the letter translation contradiction, I was forced to sit back and evaluate the situation. There is definitely something wrong here because the agency has indicated that she knows English, but then said she does not know English; they indicated that my letters are not being translated, but then said they are being translated. There is no way around it, something smells fishy.


Kuna,

Thank you for the initial reply. I will answer your questions here as best I can…

Which agency are you using?

If it is important to name the agency I will, but for now is it ok not to name them?
They are an independent agency in a network with a stellar reputation. I believe the network owner is 100% honest.

How long have you been using them?

A little over a year. Had correspondence with a few ladies.

How long have you been writing to this girl?

About 3 months.

Do you get MANY responses to your own profile?

Not really.

Did you lad contact you first or did you contact her?

I contacted her.

What is your age difference?

I am 67 and she is 19   




(hehe, just kidding! )   Me: 38  Her: 26

Is she overly affectionate in your correspondence?

I would say no. She shows a lot of interest, but no heavy affection (no calling me dear or sweetheart or any talk about love).

Has she asked for or you volunteered to send money?

No


I intentionally did not mention the agency here and in my original post for two reasons…

First, because I am not sure if it is an actual scam or just a weird misunderstanding. I did not want to seem as if I was accusing the agency until I had a better idea of what was happening.

Second, because the agency is part of an agency network with a great reputation. In fact, probably one of the best reputations in the business. I have done a lot of research about this process (including reading just about every thread on this board) and I have 100% trust and faith that the main office (where the owner is) is a fair and honest business.

I am using a branch office that is listed as an “independent agency” but part of the network. Maybe it is a shady agency in an otherwise honest network, or maybe they are a good and honest agency and this is an innocent misunderstanding. But I think you have to agree that the contradiction is blatant and worthy of a red flag.

David, how did she couch her request ? What is out of the blue, or did her previous letters hint that she would enjoy a more direct contact ?

I will post her exact words from her letter:

I am glad to receive your letter. I like it very much. I like our communication. And I dream about a meeting one day. And of course, I would like to hear your voice. Would you like to have a phone conversation with me? As far as I know it is possible to talk with the help of an interpreter through this site. I guess that it could be wonderful and even more exciting that to write letters. What is your point of view on this question?

Naturally, I will not call her until I get this translation contradiction sorted out with the agency.
But if I do get an adequate explanation, is it the general agreement of the board that the $1.50 per minute fee is extreme?

Thank you all for your time and help.

David

[Turboguy]

I always thought "agency network" and "great reputation" were oxymoron's. 

Can I ask where you heard about this "great reputation" other than their website.

[wxman]

Kevin,

I imagine you have high speed internet. From what I have read about SKYPE, one needs a fairly decent upload rate, or there may be choppy converstations, and the video part of SKYPE would not work very well. SKYPE's full functionality relies on a high speed connection. I know many places still use dial up connection as my fiancee has, and SKYPE did not work very well from her end.

[BillyB]

the agency is part of an agency network with a great reputation. In fact, probably one of the best reputations in the business. I have done a lot of research about this process (including reading just about every thread on this board) and I have 100% trust and faith that the main office (where the owner is) is a fair and honest business.

What is the major agency network are you talking about?

You say you have 100% trust and faith that the main office (where the owner is) is a fair and honest business but yet you open up this thread with thoughts of misconduct, lies, and the belief of being overcharged by the agancy in question. So what are your real feelings about the agency?

[SANDRO43]

I am glad to receive your letter. I like it very much. I like our communication. And I dream about a meeting one day. And of course, I would like to hear your voice. Would you like to have a phone conversation with me? As far as I know it is possible to talk with the help of an interpreter through this site. I guess that it could be wonderful and even more exciting that to write letters. What is your point of view on this question?

Well, my personal impression is that it sounds a bit "canned" and stereotyped, more like agency's standard text forms than spontaneous output.  Notice the "crescendos" (letters, meeting, phone/"wonderful and even more exciting")? The supposed disingenuity ("As far as I know it is possible...") ? I doubt your local agency manager will do much to clarify the situation on Monday, except for some lame excuses (misunderstanding, blame the office staff, etc.).

T/G's remark is similarly to the point: "network" agencies seldom have the time/will/resources to supervise all of their satellites, in case of problems they usually say "Sorry, not my fault" and put the blame on them. So their "reputation" is often sketchy, to say the least.

Anyway, be careful and good luck, it doesn't sound encouraging so far.

[Majestic]

I replied with the name of the agency and network, but I decided to delete it and give the agency a chance to respond to my questions and then the owner a chance to get involved if the agency does not come through.

I think this is more fair until I know if it is a misunderstanding or something else.

[BillyB]

Misunderstanding? $90 an hour is what it is. Just don't be affected by the sweet talk and sales pitch you may get if you get a response. I watch a guy on a forum bad mouth Hot Russian Brides, then get sweet talked to by the manager of HRB and he ended up signing up again! Then about six months later he came back on the forum to tell everybody HRB is a rip off for the second time. Duh.

[Majestic]

What is the major agency network are you talking about?

You say you have 100% trust and faith that the main office (where the owner is) is a fair and honest business but yet you open up this thread with thoughts of misconduct, lies, and the belief of being overcharged by the agancy in question. So what are your real feelings about the agency?

It seemed to me that the fee of $90 an hour for a telephone call was extreme, so I asked the board if this cost was the going rate (or at least reasonable), or if it was excessively high. I think it is a completely legitimate question.

I tried to make it clear that I believe the network as a whole, and the network owner, are honest and fair. But considering this agency is an independent agency in the network, and there is an obvious contradiction in statements, there is the legitimate concern of a "bad apple" in the bunch, or maybe only a somewhat shady practice to justify $1.50 per minute phone calls.

[Kevin]

For skype a dsl or better is suggested. My office has DSL and it works great. But I have used dial up before and it still works. Just a little bit choppy.

As a network owner I would want to know if one of my agents were overcharging. But at the same time if their site said $90hr then its $90hr. I know some of my agents if you go dirrectly charge 2-3 times higher then though the network.

Kevin