Here I go again...

[supranatural]

Well I don't post much and I'm working on my trip report which hasn't seen much progress since I've been laid out with the king of flu's on my return trip from Ukraine, but suffice it so say I am pleasantly, no make that enormously, pleased that I've found love again in Eastern Europe.  I'm up at 5am because my body clock is not yet in sync and I wanted to SMS my girl while she is at work.  Some of you know I was recently divorced from a 5+ year marriage to a Moscow lady (not a gcg story) and which the first 2 months after that were among the darkest months I've ever experienced in my life.  After I crawled out of that hole, I dated some AW and honestly I found dissatisfaction same as I did a few years ago when I met my ex-wife.

I can't believe that I found someone so close to my own heart and the funny thing is it was in many ways totally unexpected.  Yes I went to Ukraine with the intent of meeting ladies and hoping that there would be some spark or chemistry with someone but I was managing my expectations and in fact my friends all knew that I did not expect to find someone to knock my socks off.  So...I just wanted to let everyone know.

And...on last thing...which was totally unexpected for me as well.  Although I'd targeted mostly ladies from 29 to 37 (I am 44 but I work out a lot, 5-6 days a week and was a former pro athlete so I keep in decent shape) I figured since I was in country it could not hurt to meet some ladies a bit outside that range so I opened it up to 24 to 42 - with WMVM I might not have bothered since that would entail a lot of time to try to establish relationship with someone who may not be compatible with you due to age.  I've long been a believer that, at least for me, a 10 year age difference is about right and 15 is pushing it.  At the same time I've never criticized a single person who is with a significantly younger lady - my opinion has always been if they are happy with each other that's all that counts - who the hell am I to dictate what is happiness for someone else???  Well my girl is 24.  In fact I approached her with the idea that we would likely not see each other past our first meeting but as they say something happened on the way to heaven.  She'd told me too that she normally would not consider a guy 20 years older than her but found out, in her opinion, I looked much younger (we had some socials and 80% of the ladies were buzzing with questions for me about my "secret for youth" and some flat out refused to believe I was a day over 34).  On one of our nights out dancing, unbeknowest to me, she decided to test my athleticism by dancing all night and seeing how long it would take to tire me out (she's an amazing dancer, having taken 3 years of dance in school).  It turns out that around 3:30am, after 5 hours of dancing with few breaks, she had to lead me off because I'd tired her out.  So I guess now I'm part of the school of guys who are dating girls 20 years younger than them..only it doesn't feel that way to me.  She and I are so in sync with our feelings, thoughts, tastes in music, current events, movies, hopes for the future, etc that we never think of our age difference.  And of course my energy levels easily match up to hers too.

And a last note.  I don't know about Russia at this time especially with the explosion of skinheads in Moscow (another reason why I chose not to return to Moscow even though I met my ex-wife from there), but I do know that in Ukraine I did not have any problems because of my ethnicity.  I am Asian and there were no shortage of ladies who wanted to meet me, and no shortage of them who were very interested in me at the small socials that were arranged by Jack Bragg's tour. 

[BillyB]

Supernatural,

I remember the story of your divorce with your ex FSU lady. I thought you took it well and it was a smooth seperation so I'm surprised to hear you say there were two months that was the darkest in your life.

You seem happy with your new lady. What is it about her qualities that make her so special compared to others you met?

What is the difference between your meeting with her and between the first time you met your ex wife in the FSU?

How is your new lady treating you? Is she letting you meet her friends and family? Is she trying to save your money everywhere you go? Has she cooked you dinner yet? Since you're looking for a family oriented women, is she acting family oriented? Dancing hours on end don't count.

[ScottinCrimea]

Anyone here heard this story before?

I wasn't looking for a younger woman but...

I look much younger than my age...

I wasn't planning to fall for any woman on this trip but...

Despite the age difference we have so much in common...

I understand all of this but I'm unique because...

[supranatural]

Billy I'll answer your questions shortly.

Scott, I don't think I'm unique at all.  I met one guy on the trip who was part of a camera crew filming the documentary, he is 39 but damn if the guy doesn't make me look old, girls thought he was 22-23.  Appearances take all ranges - I lucked out a bit in the genetics department to a degree and I live very healthy (never smoke, have maybe 1 drink a year for the past 20 years if at that, plus a very regimented diet), and working out has been a lifetime discipline of mine since I was 10.  I hope you're just joking with me, I have nothing but the highest regards for your posts and experience .  Besides I've never said here that I look younger - I'm simply stating what most of the ladies said to me.  I am very insistent to anyone who meets me as to what my age is.  Never said despite the age difference we have so much in common - I simply said we do have many things in common.  Those who know me know that I stay up all hours of the night with my son playing online computer games, Xbox360, etc, my friends range mostly from 22 to 45 but concentrated mostly in the lower range because I don't like to do "mature" things like stay at home when I could be out with my friends.

Now I will answer Billy's question shortly but if the tone of what I am to hear from people are similar to Scott I will not bother posting a trip report.  I have never put anyone down on this forum, and I will not put up with anyone putting me down for simply stating my personal experiences.  I'd rather keep my privacy if that is the kind of responses I can expect.  If I am overreacting then I apologize.

[Jazzyclassy]

Anyone here heard this story before?

I wasn't looking for a younger woman but...

I look much younger than my age...

I wasn't planning to fall for any woman on this trip but...

Despite the age difference we have so much in common...

I understand all of this but I'm unique because...

Scottie you knocked it

[William3rd]

You are overreacting. . . . At least get to the meat of your trip report. Then see how you feel after you get the rest of the details printed out.

[mspanky]

Ok,
 I have to pipe in here. There are guys I personally know in their 40's who look younger than me. It is genetics and also taking care of yourself. For these guys women of all ages are prone to being attracted to them as many young women are very attracted to good looking older men. But with that, I would have to ask if it is'nt very easy to date young AW without any baggage with that advantage. The guys I know who are  lucky to look like John Schneider eraly 50's

http://www.tvcrazy.net/tvclassics/wallpaper/superman/smallville/jonathan_kent.jpg

 or Sting the wrestler 48
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/1/1e/Steve_Borden_2.jpg
 their 40's and 50's don't even think of overseas as they are chock-full of women foreign and otherwise interested in them here. It's maturity,financial security and looks all in one package which is rare.

[HiTech]

supranatural: My last try was also 20 year difference. I felt just like you that I did not really notice the age difference. When I was with her I was just saw Nata, not some one 20 years younger than me,both Nata and I felt completely comfortable with each other, so I did not see the issues early on.

On my 2nd trip I started to see the issues and most of them related to a short verses longer view of things. (some of that is culture some age) Some related to relationship experience.

I an not in anyway suggesting you can not make this work,because I also am trying again with a 18 year age gap, but think back when you were 24. Do some thinking about what you were doing for work at that time. Think about what you wanted out of your life when you were that age. Think about things you wanted to purchase that you thought were important. Think about your relationships at that time and how you viewed problems. Think about what you and your friends did for fun.

Now just realize a lot of the things you suddenly remembered are currently going threw your ladies head. And you will be able to remember what it was like at her age and empathize with her thoughts. But the odds are she will not be able to empathize and understand your view point at 44 on a lot of issues. Finding a way around that fact will be your challenge.

HiTech

[supranatural]

Hi Tech, thanks for the constructive criticism, I appreciate it.  It is excellent food for thought.  I know it is not necessarily going to be an easy road to travel and that's why I have another visit planned for the Nov-Dec timeframe and another one for the Feb-March time frame.  We talk daily and that is one thing we have going for us is that she is fluent in English so we communicate our ideas very clearly to each other with little if any misunderstanding.

For what it's worth, this is me...I do not make any pretense to being handsome.  I am simply a 44 yo who takes care of himself - 5'8", 170 lb., 8.8% body fat, resting pulse rate of 55.  I do know one of the ladies I met with thought I was some young punk coming up to her when I met her at a cafe in Lugansk and was surprised her meeting was with me - she was 31.

[Turboguy]

Yes, well if you look younger than you are it is probably the lack of grey hair.  Grey hair can really age you and I notice that you have not a single strand of grey hair.

[supranatural]

Supernatural,

I remember the story of your divorce with your ex FSU lady. I thought you took it well and it was a smooth seperation so I'm surprised to hear you say there were two months that was the darkest in your life.

You seem happy with your new lady. What is it about her qualities that make her so special compared to others you met?

What is the difference between your meeting with her and between the first time you met your ex wife in the FSU?

How is your new lady treating you? Is she letting you meet her friends and family? Is she trying to save your money everywhere you go? Has she cooked you dinner yet? Since you're looking for a family oriented women, is she acting family oriented? Dancing hours on end don't count.

BillyB, I am a very private person on the internet so I did not relay too much of what I was going through the first 2 months after the divorce.  But it was emotional hell and I basically held it together for the sake of my son.  The separation was smooth as there was little if any animosity but that did not make it any less painful to separate from someone that I'd been married to for several years.  I probably averaged 2-4 hours of sleep a night most of the time and my job performance suffered as a consequence.

Qualities I love about my new lady is that she is very generous and giving.  I've seen her go far out of her way to help others who needed help yet she was not obligated to do so in any way nor was there any compensation hoped for other than the good feeling that comes from helping others.  She also has a sense of humor that matches mine - we all have a sense of humor but there are just some people in life who tend to see things in the same light as us and laughs to the same tune we do.  

The biggest difference between her and my ex-wife is 1) she is fluent in English.  This has eliminated any need for an interpreter and allowed us to maximize the quality of the time we spent together and continue to do so on a daily basis via icq chat and skype.  I think we've communicated very clearly so far what we both expect from a relationship, our likes and dislikes, our views on life, family, children, etc. 2) We were able to spend more time together period.  My ex-wife had to work and I would see her after work at 5 then spend time with her till 10 or so.  With my new lady we found ways to spend much more time together than that.  The other thing is that she is a less materialistic than my ex-wife who loved designer clothing etc and frequently demanded the best.  My lady seems happy with something reasonable priced and is not disappointed when we can't find something she likes (my ex was a bit petulant when it came to things like that which in retrospect was a small red flag).

As far as meeting friends and family etc the answer is yes.  Her mom and dad both like me although mom is a bit concerned about the age but also admits I look young and she likes my sense of humor as well.  My lady also tries to save me money - we'd go to cab after cab till she found the best price and once she decided we should just walk instead of paying what she considered to be extortion money (i.e., 10 Hrivnya's too much).  And yes she is acting very family oriented.  We go dancing because it's fun but towards the latter half of the trip we chose to stay in most of the time and talk about serious topics such as family and the future.  In fact I'm the one who usually dragged her out to go dancing not the other way around.

[supranatural]

Yes, well if you look younger than you are it is probably the lack of grey hair.  Grey hair can really age you and I notice that you have not a single strand of grey hair.

Most 44 yo's I know don't have grey hair....I'm certainly not the exception to the norm here as far as I know.  I really don't expect the greys till around 60 at least that's what I've seen in my family.

[Kuna]

Scott,

You're right... you know you're right... those in the middle of temporary insanity can't see it but I've just decided to take a new tack.

Encourage...  ignore... observe... and b!tch slap them when they come back crying about being "scammed".  Of course in such cases they are not scammed... they are just vicitims of the probabilities they created.

Hell...  I'd go as far as to say they should also take the advice of some others around here who beluieve throwing money around FSU is a good tactic as well.  Combine the two and we should really see an improvement in the economy throughout FSU.

I wish 'em all luck... but I can't talk sense into them.

(supra... my comments are sp[ecifically aimed at you so don't get too sensitive.  My comments are meant for every man that makes the same mistakes... and there seems to be quite a few lately)

Kuna

[HiTech]

Not 22 Kuna 29. And my base criteria are simple No kids never married wants kids.(same as me) Now if you do some searching you will find very few ladies who meet that criteria over 30. And over 35 starts  making issues when you factor in the time frame of having kids.

And as far as coming of a train wreck, dropping a lady on your 2nd trip I would hardly consider a train wreck, in fact I would view it as adverting a train wreck.

And as usual Kuna your only post is criticism on age gap with no help full idea other than do not do it.

Added with edit:
What is this Kuna, you now totally change your previous post? That is just not considered upstanding play for message boards.

[ScottinCrimea]

supra, just out of curiosity, since I don't know the story, how old was your first wife when you married her?

[supranatural]

29

[Kuna]

Don't go all nancy on me HiTech...  I wrote this as soon as I saw you post and hit SUBMIT but didn't realise this came up:

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Here ya go... clarification just for you...

Not 22 Kuna 29. And my base criteria are simple No kids never married wants kids.(same as me) Now if you do some searching you will find very few ladies who meet that criteria over 30. And over 35 starts  making issues when you factor in the time frame of having kids.

And as far as coming of a train wreck, dropping a lady on your 2nd trip I would hardly consider a train wreck, in fact I would view it as adverting a train wreck.

And as usual Kuna your only post is criticism on age gap with no help full idea other than do not do it.

HiTech... you'll see I posted my comments and IMMEDIATELY modified my post because I realised I'd confused your recent experience with FSURookies recent experience...

Sorry for the confusion...

By the way... when it comes to age ranges I have said many times I think the impact of large age gaps reduces as the lady gets older therefore a 29 yr old with someone of your age isn't anywhere near as bad as some we see... In fact knowing what makes women tick at 29 would suggest to me that such a relationship has high chance of success.

HiTech... I try to give many ideas and options to people on "How to Do it" but some just can't understand or will never listen.

I apologise for the original inaccuracies in my post but it is only 6am here and I guess the exasperation at seeing ANOTHER "I'm so young and virile she can't believe it" story is starting to make me go stir crazy.

Good luck with your 29 yr old (perhaps you can give some tips on sanity to those amongst us that are chasing 20 yr olds huh?)  

Kuna

[Turboguy]

Most 44 yo's I know don't have grey hair....I'm certainly not the exception to the norm here as far as I know.  I really don't expect the greys till around 60 at least that's what I've seen in my family.

Super, that was just a friendly joke because it looks like you have your head shaved.

Hi-tech,  I think there are a lot of guys in their late 30's to late 40's who still want kids and I think it is smarter in that case to target late 20's than late 30's.   

[HiTech]

Kuna: Apology accepted.

(perhaps you can give some tips on sanity to those amongst us that are chasing 20 yr olds huh?)

I was trying to in my previous post.

I can really not relate to dating a 20 year old after dating my last immature 26 year old. I have a 24 year old as a back up to my backup date plan, but she would have to impress me as a true forward thinker, not one who would just assume things will work because we have feelings for each other. Even at 24 I am flirting with a problem.

But the 24 with luck is a moot point if my first choice works out.

HiTech

[Misha]

She'd told me too that she normally would not consider a guy 20 years older than her but found out, in her opinion, I looked much younger (we had some socials and 80% of the ladies were buzzing with questions for me about my "secret for youth" and some flat out refused to believe I was a day over 34).  On one of our nights out dancing, unbeknowest to me, she decided to test my athleticism by dancing all night and seeing how long it would take to tire me out (she's an amazing dancer, having taken 3 years of dance in school).  It turns out that around 3:30am, after 5 hours of dancing with few breaks, she had to lead me off because I'd tired her out.  So I guess now I'm part of the school of guys who are dating girls 20 years younger than them..

Hmmmm.... Do the women at the socials have a manual that they follow?

It would probably go like this:

1) Meet a man an tell him that he looks so much longer than he really is. To be safe, say that he looks at least 20 years younger than he really is and given that most of the men will be in their 40s and 50s, telling him that he does not look a day over 30 is a safe bet.
2) Ask the man how often he goes to the gym. Make sure to ooh and aaah at the right moments. Be certain to look really impressed and ask him where he found the "fountain of youth" that keeps him looking so young and virile.
3) Invite the man out to a "diskoteka" to make him "prove" his virility.  Make sure to tell him that he tired YOU out.
4) Between dances talk about a few movies he likely saw (list provided by the agency to be memorized); make sure to tell him that you are very traditional, not a feminist and that you want children and to stay at home looking after your future husband.
5) Exhaustion and fatigue haven taken their toll, he will be convinced by the end of the night that he found the love of his life.

[ScottinCrimea]

"Meet a man an tell him that he looks so much longer than he really is"

gabaub, I hope that was a typo and not a woman's typical first comment to you. 

[Misha]

"Meet a man an tell him that he looks so much longer than he really is"

gabaub, I hope that was a typo and not a woman's typical first comment to you. 

ROFL Fortunately, i never felt that I had to prove my virility and my wife and I skipped the diskoteka altogether when we were dating 

[supranatural]

Hmmmm.... Do the women at the socials have a manual that they follow?

It would probably go like this:

1) Meet a man an tell him that he looks so much longer than he really is. To be safe, say that he looks at least 20 years younger than he really is and given that most of the men will be in their 40s and 50s, telling him that he does not look a day over 30 is a safe bet.
2) Ask the man how often he goes to the gym. Make sure to ooh and aaah at the right moments. Be certain to look really impressed and ask him where he found the "fountain of youth" that keeps him looking so young and virile.
3) Invite the man out to a "diskoteka" to make him "prove" his virility.  Make sure to tell him that he tired YOU out.
4) Between dances talk about a few movies he likely saw (list provided by the agency to be memorized); make sure to tell him that you are very traditional, not a feminist and that you want children and to stay at home looking after your future husband.
5) Exhaustion and fatigue haven taken their toll, he will be convinced by the end of the night that he found the love of his life.

Actually:
1) No one said I looked 20 years younger nor do I pretend to look 20 years younger.  But I do know from the comments from every other guy at the social was that I was the only one who got the comments about looking young.  I guess that means I must look really old for my age for them to want to say that then eh?  And I guess that's why in the states I've been also dating AW from 30-36 who think I look way younger too.  I guess they must be trying to snag me as well.
2) No one asked that either.  If you feel I look old for my age please say so - at least I have the guts to post my picture for criticism.  I don't see yours in your profile. I've seen a lot more 44 yo's who look older than me IMO.  If I am delusional in thinking I don't look bad for my age please say so instead of insinuating things.
3) The lady I am seeing did not ask me out to the club.  I had asked a group of the guys out to the club including her to check out the local scenery.  
4) We never talked about movies or any list of such during that night out.  In fact we have not seen the same movies at all and I left her with a list of movies to check out when she has time. Guess that blows your "manual" out of the water.
5) Nope.  It takes a lot more than trying to wear me out dancing to convince me of that.  Maybe it would for *you*.  It wasn't a test of virility either.  She was simply having fun to see if she could outlast me.  She never told me this until our last day together which was a week later...she simply led me off the dance floor to talk.  So I guess that blows your theory out of the water too...  

You know this all reminds me why I never bother posting on most of these boards anymore.  Most of you seem to simply be out to tear other people down instead of giving constructive criticism.  At least HiTech does and even Kuna.  Considering that I've never posted one ill comment about *anyone* on this board most of you strike me as pretty damn childish.

[supranatural]

ROFL Fortunately, i never felt that I had to prove my virility and my wife and I skipped the diskoteka altogether when we were dating 

Mores the pity.  I find it fun to have dates even when I was married and a night to a dance club was usually part of the agenda for a date with my then-wife.  Maybe you don't like to but I know I do like to dance and so does my lady.

[Turboguy]

Hmmmm.... Do the women at the socials have a manual that they follow?

It would probably go like this:

1) Meet a man an tell him that he looks so much longer than he really is.

Darn, most of the socials I went to required you to wear pants.    :selfharm:

Frankly I don't have a bit of a problem with anything you have said.  Of course if I did I would be in hotter water than you seem to be in at the moment.