Prenuptials- per California

[jb]

KenC,

I can relate to that.  When Etna and I discussed finances, (after I proposed), she was very concerned that her sons ought to have an interest in the Moscow properties that I MIGHT be involved in.   I told her I was willing to sign a pre-marriage agreement stating that I wouldn't make a claim on things she owned before we were married.  She never insisted, and we never actually signed anything,,, she took my word on it...  She trusted me.

As it worked out,,, now that babushka has passed away, she has sold her Moscow flat, and has plans to sell the dacha next spring.  We are talking about 1/2 million USD so far, and I have honored my side of the agreement.  She can disburse these funds as she sees fit without argument from me.    Luckily for me, she has decided to pay off the mortgage on this house, which we own jointly, with the proceeds of the Moscow sale.  This will save me many thousands in future interest payments.  So,,, one hand washes the other.

However, my bank account has never looked better.

A message to all those over-age Lotharios who avoid Moscow ladies should take note, a Moscovitchka may actually be worth more than you are in the future.  Searching the hinterland for a woman you might be able to control can also be a hazard to your financial future.  Some of these ladies are potentially very rich.

Just thought you might like to know.

[KenC]

jb,
Funny thing is that Lena's parents transfered the ownership of their flat into Lena's name on her last visit.  Of course it is worth a lot less than a Moscow flat, but just the same, I think it is her family business and would never think that I had some claim there.

After a certain number of years together, such thoughts of what is hers and what is yours just disappear. 
KenC

[jb]

After a certain number of years together, such thoughts of what is hers and what is yours just disappear.

Quite right,,, however, I have two grown stepsons in the picture.  Their interests had to be protected. 

You are into this for 8+ years, I'm into this for 6+ years.  Our perspective is very different from the newbie just starting out.  We can only suggest and recommend,,, based on our experience.   However, we are able to call a moron an idiot if we wish,,, sort of goes with the territory.

[jb]

I'm just trying to illustrate how a "prenup" can cut both ways. 

[Simoni]

jb,
Funny thing is that Lena's parents transfered the ownership of their flat into Lena's name on her last visit.  Of course it is worth a lot less than a Moscow flat, but just the same, I think it is her family business and would never think that I had some claim there.

After a certain number of years together, such thoughts of what is hers and what is yours just disappear. 
KenC

I had not really thought about it until reading this, but Marina's mom did sign her apartment over to Marina last year.  It's in the city center, and worth several hundred thousand.

[jb]

Well,,, welcome to the land of inherited wealth that you never bargained for.  May you manage it well and justly.  Some of these families are not poor for the most part, just a little cash shy at the moment. 

Then, again, a man can pick a young hottie with nothing to offer but her looks.  Shop girls with no education to speak of, the trolly driver who is pretty, but has no depth.  It all depends on what you want.   Pretty, air headed, girls abound in the FSU.  So do serious educated women,,,quality,,, or quantity.  "sup to you.

[Turboguy]

After a certain number of years together, such thoughts of what is hers and what is yours just disappear. 
KenC

Yes, they do.   They don't even reappear during divorce.   Then it is just what is hers that reappear.

[KenC]

Yes, they do.   They don't even reappear during divorce.   Then it is just what is hers that reappear.

Turbo,
You make no sense what so ever.  Your second sentence contradicts your third sentence.  If you have nothing to add to a subject, please do not try to be witty.  You just don't have the knack for it.
KenC

[BC]

One thing about divorce is that you finally get to know exactly who you married in the first place, along with a good dose of who you are.  You will have to work harder to get out of a marriage than you did getting into it.

You can choose to either be reasonably generous supporting the ex and kids or be generous to lawyers.  I (we) chose the latter and never regretted it. It's a tough time where all three Newtonian laws of motion are very relevant.

Any more prenups out there to share?

[KenC]

BC,
The problem is that even if you want to be reasonably generous supporting the ex it may still not be enough for her, so you are then forced to be generous to lawyers.
KenC

[BC]

BC,
The problem is that even if you want to be reasonably generous supporting the ex it may still not be enough for her, so you are then forced to be generous to lawyers.
KenC

Yeah divorce is bad any way you look at it.. the one with more to loose will loose regardless imho.  Court and arbitration is for those that are not being reasonable.. - and even a prenup, especially something along the lines of the one posted up thread will just make it worse.

If at time of divorce the prenups seem unreasonable (as they will in most cases unless quite generous at the outset) they will be contested.. - just adding to already enormous legal bills and fees..  I bet lawyers love them.

[Gator]

One thing about divorce is that you finally get to know exactly who you married in the first place.

Not always true.  First, people change, particularly women as they near an empty nest.  Second, attorneys have a major influence on temperament. 

My ex-wife's attorney was a big case, ball buster who played women's emotions.  He questioned my ex-wife why she did not call him everyday.  Also, he wanted to evict me from our house and do other things to upset me.  My ex-wife realized that he was purposefully trying to cause animosity.

He had billed her $50,000 before we got to discovery.  Discovery would have been an expensive witch hunt with her attorney, a forensic accountant, and a secretary billing about 500-1000 hours each.  I offerred to do the witch hunt on a contingency basis - my ex-wife would keep all the hidden assets he found and I would pay a matching amount to her attorney.  Her attorney declined, preferring to bill by the hour. 

I pointed out to my wife that her attorney was spending not just our money but our sons' inheritance.  That moved her.  Also, she knew that I am honest and was not hiding assets.   Finally, she wanted to maintain a friendly relationship with me because we had weddings to attend together and birth of grandchildren.  So she fired her attorney.  And we settled amicably without ever involving a judge.

Also important: divorce was her idea and I did not have a girlfriend. 

[Gator]

I will have a pre-nup. 

In the case of a divorce, it will pay less than what a judge would normally award, with payments graduated for length of marriage.   Conversely, at my death it will pay more (much more) than what the law would provide.   

It contains nothing about gaining weight, adultery, and other behavior. 

[BC]

I will have a pre-nup. 

In the case of a divorce, it will pay less than what a judge would normally award, with payments graduated for length of marriage.   Conversely, at my death it will pay more (much more) than what the law would provide.   

It contains nothing about gaining weight, adultery, and other behavior. 

Gator,

Sounds quite balanced and reasonable.  I assume the numbers, although less than what *might* be allowed by a Judge, still represents a 'comfortable figure' and not the 'base poverty line' payments mentioned our sailing prenup king..

[Gator]

Who knows what a judge would award? 

Essentially she would receive over $25,000 if we divorced after just one year and over $125,000 after 10 years.  With a divorce she will need to earn some income, something she eventually wants to do.   However, she will not need to return to Russia, something she would hate to do.

We have not concluded the matter, and while she accepts the numbers and overall concepts, I feel that I should increase the amounts somewhat. 

[KenC]

Who knows what a judge would award? 

Essentially she would receive over $25,000 if we divorced after just one year and over $125,000 after 10 years.  With a divorce she will need to earn some income, something she eventually wants to do.   However, she will not need to return to Russia, something she would hate to do.

We have not concluded the matter, and while she accepts the numbers and overall concepts, I feel that I should increase the amounts somewhat. 

Gator,
You always will have the option to do so in the future.
KenC

[FunIndieBloke]

Friends told me that if I'm going to marry a RW, make sure I do the prenup thing because they think that there are some bad apples who will divorce you as soon as they get their permanent residency sorted out.  I understand the reluctance of some men to do so, but with property and land that are not just mine, but also passed down through my family, there is no way I can risk losing it in a divorce settlement.  So I agree with BillyB in this, and it seems that KenC has a good and honest woman.  Plus, look at it in a good way, it filters out the gold diggers.  It may not always make sense, depends on the case (like if she and her family has more money than you and your family).  But for me, it is something I need to insist on.

I guess I'm not alone in getting worked over. I'm not surprised according to the statistics. Before my divorce went to trial, the mediator told me what the ex wants was ridiculous according to all the facts on the table. The judge ended up giving her more in the end. The mediator told me when he first started law, he believed he could help people and believed the law is just and fair. But after over 20 years of being an attorney, he said it has tilted in favor of women to the point he lost faith in the justice system. The women's activist groups have influenced the justice system and judges are getting more worried about getting thier name in the newspaper/TV due to a bad decision towards a woman hurting their future political ambitions than being fair to men.

I remember going into the family resource center in the courthouse to get some tips. They should've called it the "women's resource center". I read a few pamphlets and it gave tips for women on who to call, where they can obtain help with a list of woman's advocate groups, what to do, how to act, what to say, how to say it with emotion when they're in front of a judge to get the best possible results at trial. There were no advice for men. The info I read was not helpful to me unless I was going to act as a female victim in front of the judge.


A good sign she's a good woman and not marrying you for money. Gold diggers will certainly have problems signing a prenup. A Pastor once told me, to my surprise, he recommends prenups. Of course I'm sure he meant fair prenups. He said it's important that both people know what they have when entering into a marriage and know what they're are getting leaving it. With financial issues aside, they can focus on marrying for love.

Unfortunately we know some women use sex as a weapon and I'm sure some women threaten divorce as a weapon too. Women overwhelmingly initiates divorce and according to the statistics, they come out on top with the majority of the assets 60% of the time or at least even 30% of the time. It pays for a woman to divorce her husband. I'd be happy if the equal rights thing feminists created up actually means "equal" someday.