Hi I'm new here and any information or help is welcome!

[Turboguy]

Gator,  I don't have even the tiniest bit of wrath to direct at anyone and I am sorry if I came off that way.  

I have to say I was a little surprised that Chris objected more to your comment about the Florida Panhandle than the comment that he looked like a slug.  I do think he would have a lot less difficulty selling his location than our friend from the boonies of Minn will have.  There are people, warm weather and beaches and I think most RW would like it better than Billings MT or Podunk MN.  

I do believe there is a Jill for every Jack and maybe Chris would not snag a nuclear scientist with a PHD but there are lots of women who would be quite happy with him.  We don't know that he can't speak proper English, just that his spelling is not great.   Even then I am sure there are women who want a good man who will make a cozy home and be a good husband and don't care at all about his English ability.   He was far from a hopeless case.    Everyone deserves to be treated with respect.  Gator your comment about the panhandle was meant to help and alert him to possible problems he might encounter.   The other comments were not.  

Gabaub,  well said and right to the point.

[jb]

Why is everyone picking on JB?  Chris did not find JB's "slug" comment as hurtful as my comment that most RW would not want to live in the Florida Panhandle.  You should direct your wrath at me, not JB.

Gator,

Not everyone is picking on me, just the usual slackers who either cannot, or will not, read.

gabaub,

My comment was meant to ease JC's worries that anyone and everyone might be envious of a man who is 28 y.o.  I do not envy him his age.  Why should I?  Everyone here was 28 once, or will be someday.  The essence is:  What has a man accomplished in those 28 years?   The pitiful attempt to impress was another turnoff for me.  Have a look at the demographics of Panama City, FL.  In all probability the only company in that town with 200 employees is Wal Mart.  I've never been impressed by braggarts.   

Perfect command of the English language?  Since most of the courting and wooing done in these international and intercultural relationships is done by e-mail, in writing, imagine for a moment the difficulties a typical RW or UW might have in understanding such a suitor if she has limited English.  My dictionary doesn't have a definition for "imormation".  Imagine the trouble an agency translator might have making sense of letters like that.

The fact remains, not every man is a suitable candidate for this pursuit.  Like it or not.

[KenC]

Turbo,
You really should read the first few posts in this thread again.  After Chris' OP, WmGO very nicely suggested that he rethink his attire.  Then jb posted a photo of a nicely dressed RW with Chris' photo and asked if the two look like a match?

Chris posted that he had read the FAQS (I assume) and that he did not have the time for the pursuit of a RW and said goodbye.  So no one pushed Chris off of RWD at that point.  He made a logical decision based on information he found here that he could not afford the time necessary to get involved with this venture.  That is RWD working at it's best IMO

Now I know that Chris also started another thread "I made a mistake" in which he took the criticism to task.  His motivation for that is unknown as he had already decided to leave.  The harshest criticism came after he decided to leave so your claim that the harsh criticism drove him off is incorrect.

I do see that your all sugar and spice advice is much more harmful than it is good.  For one thing, your encouragement to newbies to do the wrong things is detrimental to their eventual success, no matter how "nice" it is.  The other thing that has developed over time, is that your sugar coated remarks of encouragement to do these wrong things, actually increases the amount of abuse the newbie gets from the more experienced.  Members, like myself, feel that I have to counter all of your bad advice in a stronger and maybe more sarcastic way in order to get our points across.

Your own first post in this thread was in agreement that Chris should upgrade his attire.  But then when the other advice started to tend to be harsh (with Gators comments not jb's) you reversed yourself to encourage Chris to wear his ballcap and jeans.  WTF kind of good advice is that?  Can a guy dressed like Chris find a woman in the fsu?  Yes.  Would he have a better chance if he dressed better?  Of course.  But you focus in on the smallest possibilities and encourage actions that will in the end be detrimental to a guy's chances for success.

Your rah rah attitude has ruined many a man's chances at success here.  The classic example is PG of course.  The more you told him "go for it, you are doing the right things" the more volital the good advice became.  In the end, PG choose to follow your bad advice and failed miserably.  Which in itself is very sad because he may have had a shot (however small) if he had made the better decisions.  You really should be ashamed of yourself.
KenC

[Misha]

I've never been impressed by braggarts.   

Neither have I. But, is the following an example of humility?

"I think back to when I was 28, I was still in the military and had a body of steel in those days, my 1st wife was a Miss America Pageant winner in her State.  I've never settled for anything but what I wanted in life.  I've never had to date or marry an ugly woman.   And,,, everyone tells me I don't look a day over 50..."

[Misha]

I forgot to add, it may be a response to Jazzy, but it still comes across as very vain.

[jb]

Exactly my point~!  Not everyone is envious of a 28 y.o.   JC took things incorrectly, so do you.

FWIW,,, 

And,,, everyone tells me I don't look a day over 50...

was a subtle jibe at all those duffers which have come on board and tell us they all look much younger than they really are because they seek affirmation for chasing after 30+ years younger women.  T/G being the prime example.

Get with the program, gabaub.  Either give good advice to the newbie, or stay out of arguments which you do not understand.


Edit:  I see someone corrected the spelling of "information" in the thread title.   Too little, too late.
 

[Misha]

Exactly my point~!  Not everyone is envious of a 28 y.o.   JC took things incorrectly, so do you.

FWIW,,, 
was a subtle jibe at all those duffers which have come on board and tell us they all look much younger than they really are because they seek affirmation for chasing after 30+ years younger women.  T/G being the prime example.

Get with the program, gabaub.  Either give good advice to the newbie, or stay out of arguments which you do not understand.

 

I understand the arguments perfectly well, thank you very much. I was trying to be polite, but to be honest, in reading all your posts in your thread, I find that you were being arrogant and condescending. What exactly was the purpose of comparing Chris' photo with that of the woman on the phone? It would be like my criticizing the wedding photo you posted on RWD and pointing out what I consider to be every flaw that I find in you based on that photo (too short, wrinkled pants, looks like a cheap suit, etc...). What would I be achieving? Helping a newbie or boosting my own ego by putting you down? 

[KenC]

WmGO is right:

This girl



would never be seen with this guy,



You're going to need to clean up a bit.

gabaub,
I read none of the things you suggested jb wrote here.  In fact, I think it was a very subtle way to get the idea across.
KenC

[jb]

Insult away if you wish, unlike Chris, I have a thicker skin.  And it was about a $600.00 suit just out of a tightly packed suitcase after a long flight to Moscow.  (Have you ever tried to find a one day service dry cleaners in Moscow?)  BTW, I'm not that short, my wife is tall and just a little in love with those high heeled pointy toed shoes. 

[Turboguy]

FWIW,,, 
was a subtle jibe at all those duffers which have come on board and tell us they all look much younger than they really are because they seek affirmation for chasing after 30+ years younger women.  T/G being the prime example.

And,,, everyone tells me I don't look a day over 50...

Yea, and I will be when you were 40 you looked like you were 28.  Wasn't that the comment we were all critisizing.

[Misha]

gabaub,
I read none of the things you suggested jb wrote here.  In fact, I think it was a very subtle way to get the idea across.
KenC

Subtle? "This girl would never be seen with this guy, you're going to need to clean up a bit." I haven't seen such subtlety since High School.

[Misha]

Insult away if you wish, unlike Chris, I have a thicker skin.  And it was about a $600.00 suit just out of a tightly packed suitcase after a long flight to Moscow.  (Have you ever tried to find a one day service dry cleaners in Moscow?)  BTW, I'm not that short, my wife is tall and just a little in love with those high heeled pointy toed shoes. 

On of my wife's criteria was height: she wanted a man taller than her, even when she is wearing her highest heels. To follow the logic of this thread, I should warn all newbies that they will never measure up in the eyes of a RW unless they pass the minimal height requirements needed to woo a RW?

[KenC]

Subtle? "This girl would never be seen with this guy, you're going to need to clean up a bit." I haven't seen such subtlety since High School.

gabaub,
I fail to see the harshness in the comment as you suggest.  The truth of the matter is that jb's advice was right on the mark.  As many of us know, RW like to make a good presentation in public and Chris didn't make such a good presentation here on a public forum.  Imagine a RW receiving Chris' photo as an introduction.  Would she be impressed?  I doubt it.  She most likely would be put off by his appearance.  Bottom line is that Chris should clean up a bit if he wants the best chance for success with a RW.
KenC

[Turboguy]

I agree with that Ken but isn't it the responsibility of the Russian woman to reject the men who do not impress them not our responsibility to make that decision for her.   The proper thing would have been to politely suggest to Chris that he upgrade his wardrobe.   He did not need to be told he looked like a slug.

[William3rd]

This thread is beginning to get painful. There is a related clothes thread up right now. Compare the two. And the poster's responses.

BOTH threads say the same thing- dress to impress.

This thread should be renamed-Tempest in a Teapot- or something similarly inane.

[jb]

On(e) of my wife's criteria was height: she wanted a man taller than her, even when she is wearing her highest heels. To follow the logic of this thread, I should warn all newbies that they will never measure up in the eyes of a RW unless they pass the minimal height requirements needed to woo a RW?

Should we assume from this that your wife was fixated on physical appearances?   That's rather shallow, don't you think?  It's a good thing for me my wife was more interested in brains than shoe size. 

And for your general fund of knowledge, this IS high school for a great many men who come through our doors.

The proper thing would have been to politely suggest to Chris that he upgrade his wardrobe.   He did not need to be told he looked like a slug.

T/G,  sorry to be so impolite, I bow to your politeness. Oh, Great and Most Polite of the RWD, go have another go at P/G's thread.  See if your politeness can restore to him the time and wealth he wasted because of your polite advise.  The trouble is, you would never suggest Chris do anything to improve his chances with a better class of woman, like get an education.  Most RWs value education and intelligence above all else.  You would just continue to defend his right to be a slug. 

There's something for you to cheer about.

[Misha]

gabaub,
I fail to see the harshness in the comment as you suggest.  The truth of the matter is that jb's advice was right on the mark.  As many of us know, RW like to make a good presentation in public and Chris didn't make such a good presentation here on a public forum.  Imagine a RW receiving Chris' photo as an introduction.  Would she be impressed?  I doubt it.  She most likely would be put off by his appearance.  Bottom line is that Chris should clean up a bit if he wants the best chance for success with a RW.
KenC

In looking at the photo, I can't see what has to be cleaned up. He doesn't look like he is living in a shelter collecting empties to buy his next bottle of cheap wine. You asked: would a RW be impressed by the photo? Well, it depends on which RW! You would think by reading some of these posts that RW are akin to the Borg on Star Trek: they all think exactly alike and they all conform to one opinion. Not all RW will be impressed by one man and one photo, but presumably Chris was not looking to impress ALL Russian women.

[Misha]

Should we assume from this that your wife was fixated on physical appearances?   That's rather shallow, don't you think?  It's a good thing for me my wife was more interested in brains than shoe size. 

She is not fixated on appearance, but yes it was one of many points that she considered when looking for a husband.

As for your saying that it is shallow because appearance was a criteria for her, this seems to be a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black given some of your comments. What was your comment about you not dating "ugly" women? 

[Jazzyclassy]

Even if it is Panama City to blame or anything else

Only very very brave and risky women can go and live in the USA its a dangerous place  for a russian soul :P:P:P

poor Chris will never come back 

[ScottinCrimea]

Sure you will find women who don't care about how a man looks, just as you will find men who don't care how a woman looks, but it is common sense to realize that how a person PRESENTS themself reflects on their character and what is beneath the cover.  Why dress only for those to whom it doesn't matter?  If you want to improve the pool, you need to realize that no woman will reject you off hand because you dress nice, but many will because you don't.  This doesn't necessarily represent snobbishness on their part, just an appreciation of class, and what man doesn't want a woman who has class and appreciates it in a man?

If anyone reading this has no class, then please disregard the above.

[Misha]

Sure you will find women who don't care about how a man looks, just as you will find men who don't care how a woman looks, but it is common sense to realize that how a person PRESENTS themself reflects on their character and what is beneath the cover.  Why dress only for those to whom it doesn't matter?  If you want to improve the pool, you need to realize that no woman will reject you off hand because you dress nice, but many will because you don't.  This doesn't necessarily represent snobbishness on their part, just an appreciation of class, and what man doesn't want a woman who has class and appreciates it in a man?

If anyone reading this has no class, then please disregard the above.

Yes, but there is no UNIVERSAL standard of how a man should look. One woman may say that a man is very chic dressed is his $200 suit, while another will scoff and say that she would never date a man who does not wear at the very minimum an authentic Armani suit.

[Gator]

Gaubaub,

presumably Chris was not looking to impress ALL Russian women.

The key point - Chris did not stay aroung long enough to let us know what he was looking to do.  He gave up on us and maybe on RW.  

Hopefully Chris did not give up on RW but found a personal service agency who will do much of the legwork, for a fee.   Considering his writing ability, he should not attempt correspondence because such words as "immormation" do not readily translate into Russian with available software.  It might make a RW think that Chris seeks "immoral" women.

Chris will then take a trip.  Lord only knows what he will decide or bring back.  Good luck to Chris.

[KenC]

I agree with that Ken but isn't it the responsibility of the Russian woman to reject the men who do not impress them not our responsibility to make that decision for her.   The proper thing would have been to politely suggest to Chris that he upgrade his wardrobe.   He did not need to be told he looked like a slug.

Turbo,
There are guys that come here in a sincere effort to learn and take their best shot at this.  Justanotherguy started a thread (that William referred to) on what to wear.  In his thread RWD members came out of the woodwork in order to give him good advice and he accepted it.  Here, with Chris, he rejected the advice and defended his "look."  That is when things got harsh.  Again, a man comes here for advice, doesn't like what he hears, (as if he knows better), complains about his treatment here and runs away.  Who do you think will be successful in pursuing a RW?  The guy that listens and learns or the guy that thinks he knows it all?

The criticism did start out as being constructive, but turned harsh after Chris posted his inflexibility to listen and learn.  It probably is best that he dropped the idea of pursuing a RW anyway.

My own son is Chris' age.  There is a time and a place for such "casual wear" and I know he would understand the difference between what is acceptable to go hunting and fishing and what is acceptable to present yourself to the general public let alone a potential woman he might be interested in.  Chris obviously did not have the same good upbringing.
KenC

Edited to add:  Isn't it our responsibility to give the best possible advice to try an aide men to be successful?  To do so, we must instruct the newbies on the best possible methods to be successful and not encourage high risk, low reward practices.

[Turboguy]

T/G,  sorry to be so impolite, I bow to your politeness. Oh, Great and Most Polite of the RWD, go have another go at P/G's thread.  See if your politeness can restore to him the time and wealth he wasted because of your polite advise.  The trouble is, you would never suggest Chris do anything to improve his chances with a better class of woman, like get an education.  Most RWs value education and intelligence above all else.  You would just continue to defend his right to be a slug. 

There's something for you to cheer about.

So you blame me for P/G's "wasted time" and I blame you and Anono and the others that attacked him with a vengeance.

Let me ask you this jb.  When someone is attacked, what are their choices?   I will give you my take on it now.  1. Run, 2. Ignore it 3.  Fight back   P/G was not a runner and more power to him for that.   If he tried to ignore it there was no way you could ignore that much abuse and shameful behavior so that was not a viable option.  When you fight back it strengthens your resolve.  Sorta like a rat in a corner scenario.   When PG made his first post looking for advice he had concerns.   That cruel attacks he got were what drove him to his problems not my attempts to defend him. 

How tall are you jb?  What is "not that short"?

[KenC]

So you blame me for P/G's "wasted time" and I blame you and Anono and the others that attacked him with a vengeance.

Let me ask you this jb.  When someone is attacked, what are their choices?   I will give you my take on it now.  1. Run, 2. Ignore it 3.  Fight back   P/G was not a runner and more power to him for that.   If he tried to ignore it there was no way you could ignore that much abuse and shameful behavior so that was not a viable option.  When you fight back it strengthens your resolve.  Sorta like a rat in a corner scenario.   When PG made his first post looking for advice he had concerns.   That cruel attacks he got were what drove him to his problems not my attempts to defend him. 

How tall are you jb?  What is "not that short"?

What a crock of sh-t, Turbo!
PG hung his hopes on your piss poor advice and it blew up in his face as predicted by most.  You, Clyde and others encouraged the poor sap into thinking he had a chance doing it in the most disfunctional manner imaginable.  YOU, TURBO, are the one who encouraged him into his own stupiditiy and now you look for scapegoats!  Bullsheet, total bullsheet.
KenC