Hi I'm new here and any information or help is welcome!

[jb]

T/G,

Re-read Ken's post and assume it came from me.

[Turboguy]

I will jb but you are both wrong.

[Son of Clyde]

If I remember correctly the very first comment about P/G's lady was that she was not a looker. Then there were comments about her being a shop girl. It all went downhill after that. I am sure once she arrived there were signs of unhappiness that P/G did and did not have control over. The issue of her not wanting to kiss him at their first meeting was blown all out of proportion as she did warm up to him before he left. Some of you were most critical of P/G when he was the most vulnerable and never gave much thought to how much stress he might have been under. There is more that you and I will ever know about and it is better that way. KenC you can be very sarcastic and condescending one minute and best of friends the next. It is not consistant and I am not attacking you on it. I think some  others see this side of you as well. I know you do not post personal stuff KenC but can you please let us know what makes your relationship more special than most others? We all know there is a large age gap but apparently there is something to keep you two together. Maybe this is what others need to know. Can you please let us into your world just a little bit? If there is anything that has bothered me about you, it is that you never post anything negative about your life. I know if you are a normal guy it cannot be 100% good all the time. Please, I have promised not to start arguments with you but I really think it is helpful for others to know how you succeeded with a large age difference.

[jb]

Clyde,

The issue of her not wanting to kiss him at their first meeting was blown all out of proportion as she did warm up to him before he left.

That's not true, IIRC, he didn't get even one kiss during that 1st meeting in Kiev.  It has been said more than once; "If a RW likes you, you will know it".  He even didn't get a glimmer.  This was pointed out to him, forcefully, yet he proceeded as if all was OK.  Mostly because T/G encouraged him to do so in the face of just about everyone else saying; "run, forest, run~!".

I pointed out the fact that she was a simple "shop girl", not a highly educated person.  That got blown out of the sky by almost everyone who supported the idea that love is blind and no one needed to analyse this process beyond what constitutes a good piece of azz.  Anono was the one who went over the top on her looks.

Let's get our facts straight before we step on something tender.

[Admin]

Clyde,

That's not true, IIRC, he didn't get even one kiss during that 1st meeting in Kiev.  It has been said more than once; "If a RW likes you, you will know it".  He even didn't get a glimmer.  This was pointed out to him, forcefully, yet he proceeded as if all was OK.  Mostly because T/G encouraged him to do so in the face of just about everyone else saying; "run, forest, run~!".

I pointed out the fact that she was a simple "shop girl", not a highly educated person.  That got blown out of the sky by almost everyone who supported the idea that love is blind and no one needed to analyse this process beyond what constitutes a good piece of azz.  Anono was the one who went over the top on her looks.

Let's get our facts straight before we step on something tender.

Several thoughts come to mind:

* Ancient history
* Principals not around
* Impossible to *prove* one way or another

Time to let the PG 'issue' fade off into the annals of RWD history.

If PG ever returns, my hope is that everyone will allow him the luxury of a mistake and NOT dredge up the ancient history.

- Dan

[Son of Clyde]

jb, a lot of what is remembered is based on how the message was delivered.
Maybe you are correct but someone thinking back may see it in a negative light.
If I am wrong I will admit it as I did not return to the original thread.

[KenC]

If I remember correctly the very first comment about P/G's lady was that she was not a looker. Then there were comments about her being a shop girl. It all went downhill after that. I am sure once she arrived there were signs of unhappiness that P/G did and did not have control over. The issue of her not wanting to kiss him at their first meeting was blown all out of proportion as she did warm up to him before he left. Some of you were most critical of P/G when he was the most vulnerable and never gave much thought to how much stress he might have been under. There is more that you and I will ever know about and it is better that way.

I have a very clear memory of the events even in the original trip report that Dan erased and let me just say that there was much more to it than you lead people to believe here.

 

KenC you can be very sarcastic and condescending one minute and best of friends the next. It is not consistant and I am not attacking you on it. I think some  others see this side of you as well. I know you do not post personal stuff KenC but can you please let us know what makes your relationship more special than most others?

I think I am very consistant in my thought process here.  There is a personal side in my relationship which I choose not to share in a public forum.  That is my choice and you should respect it.  I like most of the OMB's choose our spots to share personal things here when it is relevant to the topic.
 

We all know there is a large age gap but apparently there is something to keep you two together. Maybe this is what others need to know. Can you please let us into your world just a little bit? If there is anything that has bothered me about you, it is that you never post anything negative about your life. I know if you are a normal guy it cannot be 100% good all the time. Please, I have promised not to start arguments with you but I really think it is helpful for others to know how you succeeded with a large age difference.

Clyde,
You and I are opposites in many ways.  I choose to post positive things and you choose to post negative ones.  (Really think about that for a while, please)  Again, I share what is relevant and what I choose to post regarding my private life as do we all.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Dan said it best in another post.   People don't listen to people they don't respect.   Whatever I said to P/G didn't matter.   He sure was not going to listen to those who attacked him so aggresivly but I agree, it is ancient history and it is best to move on.

Clyde,
You and I are opposites in many ways.  I choose to post positive things KenC

 

Oh, you mean positive things about YOURSELF.   OK.  YES YOU DO.

[tim 360]

   I'd really prefer to just laugh at some of these idiotic posts and say nothing.  PG?  Is that coming out of its deep ugly grave aqain?  I had thought it had been deeply buried with a stake in its heart.  Hah!  Its alive!

He got good advice which he chose not only to ignore; but to fight... and in the end he got his just desserts and hopefully he learned a very pricey lesson.  But, 'prolly not.  You can talk to a horse alot--but you can't tell him much.

Pic's with women?  Boy this is so simple Panama Boy.  Whats the old saying,  "You never get a second chance to make a good first impression."  Or maybe, "Dress for success."

Gggeezzz!  Haven't been here much lately.  A lot of low wattage postings...too boring.  I see there is good new population of 5 watt lightbulbs trying to pursue RW's.  Good luck meheartys.  You'll need more wattage; so read the archives etc.  A little common sense also helps too,  Ciao,tim360

[tim 360]

What a crock of sh-t, Turbo!
PG hung his hopes on your piss poor advice and it blew up in his face as predicted by most.  You, Clyde and others encouraged the poor sap into thinking he had a chance doing it in the most disfunctional manner imaginable.  YOU, TURBO, are the one who encouraged him into his own stupiditiy and now you look for scapegoats!  Bullsheet, total bullsheet.
KenC

BTW:  TurboGuy, since you are dredging the PG grave up.  KenC is correct.  You encouraged the poor fool (PG) and that is your bad.  You should be ashamed of yourself and some of the wittless advice you so freely dispense.  You should have better scruples for a man your age.

[Turboguy]

My scruples are just fine Tim.  I sleep quite well with them.  P/G and I are still friends and stay in touch both with emails and phone calls to keep up on each others life.  If he feels I led him down a path to disaster why would he want to even speak to me.   Do you think he stays in close touch with jb and Ken?

If I did anything harmful to P/G why doesn't he see it. 

[Admin]

I think it serves no useful purpose to dredge up the history of the PG story of old.

If there is blame to be laid on anyone other than PG (and his gal), lay it on my doorstep. I could have intervened to discourage the cheerleading - but I did not. The reason I did not is because I firmly believe in what ultimately became commemorated in the RWD Vision, which says:

RWD practices tolerance of diversity in opinions expressed and experiences shared, and promotes the notion of individual choice wherever and whenever possible.

My strong suspicion is that PG (Doug) fully-accepts responsibility for his own choices - as he should.

Beyond that - I *really* wish this issue would fade into history. It has absolutely no bearing on anything we are discussing at this point.

- Dan

[William3rd]

Uhhh- birds of a feather comes to mind. . . . .

The PG misadventure is more than a year back, isn't it? Ancient history at this point. Before my time. . . .

It should remain buried.You are right, Dan.

[DKMM]

This thread makes me envision babushkas on the rainbow colored bench in front of a flat...

[neo]

In the history of daft ass RW threads this truly takes the biscuit

the OP is long gone, probably never to be seen again.

And what we get is another 6 page diatribe of an argument for an arguments sake with the same old same old kuna vs turboguy et al.

Frankly, i'm astonished y'all got nothing better to do with your time than argue about an argument.

What have we learnt from this thread? i get the original point about dress, but TBH i've seen some RW with shocking dress sense and nobody is suggesting to them they shouldnt go to america. the girl with a squirrel on her head springs to mind, but maybe thats haute couture in beaver falls.

I digress.

There is some mileage that you will look very 'merican if you walk around with a napsack, baseball cap and sneakers in a 5 star novy arbat resteraunt or club but who even gave the guy a chance? based on some avatar photo???? do you you all really think there is some crazy guy running round russsia in a knitted balaclava and aviators????

Part of me is not surprised to come back and find the same argument being played out again and again - Kuna et al make a huge play about "leading hte newbies on the path of the righteous (probably sic) but then proceed to clog up the whol F'ing forum with argument, cross examination and misdirection that makes it about as easy to read as a SEC directorate on mark to market.

Guys, seriously - i'm with the admin, if you want ot kick each others old asses round the playground on a daily basis why don't y'all get yourself a rooom and do it, why does every single thread have to descend into an anarchy ridden pissing contest between TG and Kuna.

I though the blond girl on the phone was hot BTW. to JC suggesting she was a hooker: Miow.

[Turboguy]

Very well said Neo except for one small thing.   

We were not arguing for the sake of arguing

We were arguing about how to argue properly and who to argue with for the sake of arguing.   I hope you agree or otherwise we would have to argue with you about what we were arguing about.

[Son of Clyde]

Sorry to bring up the PG issue again but I know he still visits the board from time to time. All you need to do is look at the list of online members occasionally. I remember the PG thread as an example of a situation that was out of control. Probably is good the thread is gone. I have not posted anything about my marriage for a long time because I realized I posted mainly negative things. The board is headed in the wrong direction with the personal attacks and snide remarks. If you don't agree with someone's tactics place them on ignore, do not continually berate them. It is getting very old.
You can see, if you look hard enough, the friendship groups that have formed here. Isn't it better for RWD to be one big friendship group? I have good friends I never see eye to eye with but they are still good friends. We have the option to listen to other people or to make our own decisions.

[Admin]

Sorry to bring up the PG issue again but I know he still visits the board from time to time. All you need to do is look at the list of online members occasionally. I remember the PG thread as an example of a situation that was out of control. Probably is good the thread is gone. I have not posted anything about my marriage for a long time because I realized I posted mainly negative things. The board is headed in the wrong direction with the personal attacks and snide remarks. If you don't agree with someone's tactics place them on ignore, do not continually berate them. It is getting very old.
You can see, if you look hard enough, the friendship groups that have formed here. Isn't it better for RWD to be one big friendship group? I have good friends I never see eye to eye with but they are still good friends. We have the option to listen to other people or to make our own decisions.

Re: PG. I am glad he visits from time to time. If PG ever decides to take another try with RW, I hope he will consider posting here again, and I trust our members will offer him a warm welcome and genuine well-wishes that he finds future happiness.

Re: "one big friendship group". I am not sure that would necessarily be a good thing - depending on what your definition of "friendship group" may be. You see, the diversity of experience and opinion is what makes RWD unparalleled in terms of providing useful and unvarnished information. Further, the expression of "friendship," or more pointedly, the expression of concern for another - is manifest in guys providing their honest experiences and opinions. Of course, those experiences and opinions are NOT universal - and some people will find they do not fit their individual circumstances and will opt differently. Still, having the information for review - thinking through the alternatives - making a conscious choice as to what option is best for them - THAT is what RWD is all about - and THAT is what RWD offers better than any other RW venue in the history of the 'net (small bit of shameless RWD promotion there - in case anyone missed it ).

SoC - I don't think it is realistic to expect RWD members to be the sort to join hands and sing Cumbaya (sp?). There are a great many people here - men and women - who are highly-intelligent, highly-independent, and most are the sorts to think for themselves. That is the demographic we attract, and that is, for the most part, the demographic of our existing membership. Given those demographics, it is not realistic to expect that we will ever be "one big friendship group" - there are too many strong and independent personalities. Since it is not realistic to establish that as an expectation, those who HOLD that expectation are likely to be disappointed and disenchanted with what they find at RWD. What they WILL find at RWD is the most experienced, best-informed, most generous with their information and time, and largest community on the 'net. Nobody else even comes close. If we can continue to reinforce participation here in accord with the RWD Vision (link above), then we will continue our unprecedented growth for the foreseeable future.

My $.02 worth.

- Dan

[Son of Clyde]

Dan, by friendship group, you can see the guys who support each other.
My group was named by KenC as the Rah Rah group. 
I can see jb and KenC as being supportive of each other. They also  happen to have the most senority here at RWD. You will have different methods, some heavy handed and some with a lighter touch. It is the choice of the newbie who they wish to follow or if they choose to make up their own mind. You can take some good information from anyone you choose.

[ScottinCrimea]

We tend to support those who agree with our view of things - that's only natural.  I think you'll find that it's not always consistent, though, and that's a good thing.  for example there are times when I want to drive to San Diego and kick KenC's a$$ and other times when I want to buy him a drink.  Of course others are more consistently on my a$$-kicking list and vis versa.  It's the variety of opinions and the willingness to express them that give this board value.  If everyone agreed with me, the world would be much better, but it would be boring. 

[Jazzyclassy]

I can see jb and KenC as being supportive of each other. They also  happen to have the most senority here at RWD. You will have different methods, some heavy handed and some with a lighter touch. It is the choice of the newbie who they wish to follow or if they choose to make up their own mind. You can take some good information from anyone you choose.

Maybe JB and Ken C support each other in some way , but I do not think JB is like Ken C

they are completely different!

[KenC]

Dan, by friendship group, you can see the guys who support each other.
My group was named by KenC as the Rah Rah group. 
I can see jb and KenC as being supportive of each other. They also  happen to have the most senority here at RWD. You will have different methods, some heavy handed and some with a lighter touch. It is the choice of the newbie who they wish to follow or if they choose to make up their own mind. You can take some good information from anyone you choose.

Clyde,
You continue to confuse "friendship" with respect for one's opinion.  It may surprise you, but even though you and I see a lot of things differently, I have no animosity toward you in any way.  In fact I rather like your personality in a strange and quirky way.

As Scott said above, he and I have fought tooth and nail on a few subjects, but in general we usually agree on most things.  Does that make Scott my friend or foe?  Neither, really.  There are many guys (and gals) here that I wouldn't mind having a beer with and just BS'ing.  You, Turbo,and PG are in that group, but so is I/O, jb and WmGO who I usually agree with.
KenC

[BillyB]

I was posting this in the other thread but it got locked. Luckily I learn to copy what I type before pushing the post button.

Implying girlfriends are victims and wives are bought, guys like Chris doesn't know how to dress with insult and of course everyone says it like it is, calls a spade a spade, and speaks the truth no matter how harsh it may be get the results we see unfolding. People's feelings get hurt and want to fight or throw mud back. That's what happens when we choose to insult others whether it's the truth or not. Anybody surprised? Honestly, does anybody act differently here as they do with they're family, coworkers, boss, guests and strangers? Do we do things different here because we don't have to live and work together? I'm pretty much the same guy here as I'm with all people. No acting, no games, no dual personality.

Most of us are smart, we know how to give genuine advice to help others and criticise their actions without insult. We also know how to criticise with insult knowing full well that it will tick the person off. Don't be surprised that they will tick you off too. If you keep greeting people that come in your life with good advice and an insult, don't be surprised they will say goodbye.  If you insult a girlfriend or wife, expect to duke it out. If you want to live this kind of life, go to a bar and insult the guy next to you instead of here at the forum to better understand the results of your actions in the real world. After kicking ass and getting your ass kicked often, hopefully one will wake up and understand it's not a productive way to teach/influence others or to lead your life.

Every once in a while I see a movie based on a true story of the actions of great men who lead by example. I like to learn from those type of men. Anybody seen "Gettysburg" and "We Were Soldiers". Both movies featured Colonels that were truly great men. Their troops admired and respected them. Watch the movie to see why. Ask yourself how you measure up to those men?

[Turboguy]

Part of me says we would never treat someone in real life like we do here.  Would you walk up to someone and say they look like a slug or call them Sluggo.   

Then as I think on it more and to my Monday night bowling league, we do call Randy "Buckethead"  and Frank "Ragu" for his Italian herritage and perhaps because he looks like a meatball. 

[KenC]

Part of me says we would never treat someone in real life like we do here.  Would you walk up to someone and say they look like a slug or call them Sluggo.   

Then as I think on it more and to my Monday night bowling league, we do call Randy "Buckethead"  and Frank "Ragu" for his Italian herritage and perhaps because he looks like a meatball. 

And just what do your bowling partners call you, Turbo?