She begged me to come back...

[timothe]

Thanks Gabaub for the suggestion!!  I sleep like crap and I know it's from sleep apnea.  I'll look into the CPEP promptly. 

[timothe]

Tuesday morning we packed our things and headed to the Borispol airport for Yalta.  This was my ladyfriend’s 2nd time on an airplane and she was a little scared, I think.  As she always does, she managed to find herself a nearby person to talk to about whatever it is that she talks about.  It turns out that the woman she is speaking with (Eileen) is going to Yalta also with a Canadian man she met for the first time. (George)  It wasn’t long before my ladyfriend and Eileen were chatting it up while George and I were kinda staring at each other blankly.  We eventually got to talking and decided to share a cab to Yalta if we could find one that could fit all of our luggage and four people. 

We arranged a taxi from Simferapol for 400 Hrivnas and watched with amusement as the driver wrangled eight suitcases into the back of his station wagon.  The cab ride was very animated as the four of us talked and joked with each other in multiple languages.  We dropped off George and Eileen at the Bristol hotel and the ladies arranged for us to meet later for dinner. 

For the Yalta part of our accommodations, we used Phil Baker from www.blacksea-crimea.com   I arranged a nice two bed apartment right on the walkway in the Massandra district for $80 per night.  The location of the apartment was fantastic!!  But the apartment itself was smaller than we expected and the telephone was shut off.  In addition, we had to wait outside the apartment for over an hour because the phone number we had for the owners was the wrong number. 

My experience with Phil Baker was bad…really bad.  Although he eventually fixed the credit card problems, he did not communicate my request that the landlady be at the apartment when we arrived.  His emails were very slow to arrive and no one at this agency had the decency to call me when I requested a return call. 

My ladyfriend was much more upset with the actual apartment than I was.  She really needed a working phone so she could communicate cheaply with her new friend Eileen.  And the ceilings in the kitchen and the upstairs bed were too low for her.  (She’s 5’11”)  She started to take out her frustration on me, which was not good, but I decided this wasn’t the right battleground and I kept my cool. 

[timothe]

One of the biggest challenges for me with my ladyfriend was/is to stay firm on important issues and “yes, dear” the non-important issues.  We did pretty good the first few days in Kiev, but I was constantly tired and I knew a fight was coming soon.

That first fight occurred during our first meal with George and Eileen.  We were at a café near the apartment and we were getting ready to order when George mentioned how much Eileen could eat, yet stay small.  (Eileen was 90lbs soaking wet)  I commented without thinking that my ladyfriend can eat a lot also.  I knew it was mistake as it was crossing my lips, but her reaction was way over the top.  She slammed the menu shut and pulled out the keys to the apartment, while mumbling something about awful I was for saying this about her.  For my part, I wasn’t trying to hurt her feelings.  I was about to grovel but decided that she overreacted to an innoculous comment.  Instead, I asked for the passcode for the building and told her that if she wanted to get upset over this, she could go home alone and miss a good dinner with friends. 

I felt like I was at a shootout at the OK corral.  Whoever blinked first, loses.  I wasn’t going to blink like I had done in the past and after 5 tense minutes of her talking to Eileen while I talked to George, she took my hand and apologized for her reaction.  I apologized in return and the incident was never spoken of again.  I felt like I did the right thing in that situation but more importantly, I saw again her desire to sacrifice her will temporarily in the name of peace.  She gave no quarter in our previous relations and I saw that as a sign that she really wanted things to work out.

We had three good days in Yalta before we fought again on Thursday night, this time about politics.  But we weren’t really fighting about politics.  We were fighting about talking and listening.  My ladyfriend doesn’t listen very well when she doesn’t want to hear what you have to say.  As some of you know, I have a lot of opinions on life and I like to be heard.  Arguing to me is enjoyable, lively discussion…not something to be avoided at all costs.  But she kept tuning me out whenever I tried to fully explain myself or she’d go off on a tangent.  The topic shifted to what she wanted from our relations.  She explained to me that she only wants to have a good life for her and her daughter and a good home.  She talked about her dreams and desires and problems for a long time…she was really pouring her heart out to me.  But she wouldn’t let me get a word in edgewise.

Finally, she was done talking.  (and I was done listening)  Then she asks me “you don’t say anything about your life…what’s important to you.  Why?”  So I started to explain what I wanted from our relations.  About three sentences in, she goes off on another tangent for 10 minutes and then begins to storm off to bed.  I was done done done with this woman. . D O N E!!!  Before she made it up the stairs to her bed, I asked her if she actually wanted to listen to me and she grudgingly sat back down on the couch next to me.  I finished my thoughts but I was already in damage control, trying to figure out what I was going to do for the next three days with this woman.  I went to bed with a head full of thoughts.  It was going to be another sleepless night. 

[Misha]

Thanks Gabaub for the suggestion!!  I sleep like crap and I know it's from sleep apnea.  I'll look into the CPEP promptly. 

No problem. It makes a huge difference! If I go a couple of days without the CPAP, I feel like a zombie, exhausted from the lack of GOOD sleep. I would recommend that anybody who snores bad enough that their partners can't sleep should be checked out. It also has important health issues: because of the sleep apnea, there is not enough oxygen in your blood, and your heart has to work harder to pump the blood, while it is not getting enough oxygen to do the extra work.

[BillyB]

People are usually on their best behavior in the dating/courting phase of a relationship. Look on the bright side timothe, you are experiencing the best behavior the lady has to offer. I find it childish for her to do a power play in front of friends by slamming her menu shut and pulling out the apartment keys. It's a sign she wants control  and can easily walk away from you if you marry her. If a woman wants to exit stage, let her walk while you walk in the opposite direction without ever looking back.

[Bruce]

Tim - sounds like you made the right choice.  Good luck and I hope you soon get back in the hunt.  Never give up!

[timothe]

No matter how bad my situation was with my ladyfriend, it wasn’t half as bad as George’s situation.  George (55) found Eileen (44) on LavaLife and discovered that she had to pay the agency she was with in order to continue correspondence.  He sent emails back and forth to her for 4 months before meeting her for 20 days, beginning in Kiev.  He had no backup plan.  He sent expensive gifts to her in advance of their meeting.  He paid for separate hotel rooms for both him and her in Kiev and Yalta.  In short, George was getting cleaned out by a woman who was cold fish whenever they were alone. 

However, Eileen was a fun fun person to vacation with and as couples, we had a great time most of the time.  The first two days in Yalta, George was sick so Eileen, my ladyfriend, and I took excursions without him.  We spent a full day traveling to Kaktabel to visit Mount Karabadd and the Golden Gate by sea.  The ladies were excited all day and constantly chattered and giggled back and forth.  They were really having a good time!  And I was enjoying myself, too, because I got to watch my ladyfriend in her element while enjoying the spectacular sights of the Crimea. 

I wouldn’t necessarily refer to Eileen as a pro-dater, but it was obvious that she was perfectly willing to spend George’s money and not reciprocate any feelings toward him.  She may have meant well at first, but it was plain to see there were things she did not like about George.  And George was too lackadaisical to find out what this little terror was thinking. 

It did not bother me at all that my ladyfriend got along so well with Eileen.  I never thought they were plotting something against me.  My ladyfriend has always been a little sheltered and she loves to hear the stories from other people about what they have done and where they went.  Eileen had been to a lot of places before and again, she was a scream to hang out with.  In fact, she was literally screaming at the top of her lungs when she rode the bungy ride down by the beach.  We were in stitches!! 

On occasion, my ladyfriend would give me suggestions to pass along to George about how he should behave around Eileen.  George comes from Alberta, Canada.  He hunts and fishes and lives in sub-zero temperatures.  Although very laid-back, George was a hardy guy…not a very good fit for a lifelong city girl who will simply run over you with her personality if you let her.  I tried to help George as much as I could by explaining what I knew about these women and how I felt he needed to take control of the conversation with Eileen at some point.  I even told him to pay her to leave him so he could possibly find someone else.  When I left him on Sunday, George had resigned himself to five more days of hell with this woman, knowing that he’ll never have to see her again.  (Or any other FSU woman…he was really D O N E!)

For the newer members, George made some mistakes that destined his relationship to fail.

1.  He fell in love with her picture.
2.  He thought that the letters they wrote to each other for four months meant something.  Nothing matters until after you meet.
3.  He didn't call her...once...before meeting her.
4.  He sent her expensive gifts in advance of their meeting which raised her expectations.
5.  He didn't have a backup plan.

George was a nice guy...really guy.  But his relations with this woman were doomed from the start. 

[timothe]

Once George got well, we did everything together.  Unlike Kiev, we found a nice restaurant where we ate often and shared many good times.  The Café Theatre (sp) is just off the main walkway in Massandra.  It generally cost us $35 per person…not cheap.  But they had the best Rapponi I have ever eaten!!  (The menu said it was baked clams and it tasted like clams, but Eileen told me that Rapponi is snails.)  On the last day we ate there, Friday, my ladyfriend ordered a pork steak and asked for a small piece but got a very large piece.  (they charge by weight)  She argued with the gay waiter about her portion, but in the end, we paid the bill…with my ladyfriend muttering about Ukrainians under her breath.  For me, the Café Theatre is the best restaurant in Yalta and I’d recommend it to anyone wanting a very good meal with good atmosphere. 

Some of the excursions we went on were great values…others were tourist traps.  The all day excursion to Kaktabel was 140 Hrivnas per person...very enjoyable.  The boat trips to the castle in Yalta was pretty much a waste of time, other than the pictures.  And the cable car that goes up the side of the mountain was fun for me but way too cold for the ladies. 

The four of us had two very enjoyable events…practically unforgettable.  After dinner on Friday, we walked to this display where you could dress up in costumes and get your pictures taken for 20 Hrivna per person  ($4USD).  You could either dress up as a tough Harley man/woman or you could dress in 1700s European regalia.  We chose the European regalia and the ladies had a magnificent time with it.   

The second event requires a little backstory, so I’ll save it for now. 

One more comment before I get back to the main storyline.  The American dollar trades horribly right now!!  I spent at least another $1000USD just because of my weak currency.    For those new in the process, plan on a trip to the Ukraine to be every bit as expensive as a trip to any US city.

My ladyfriend and I spent the vast majority of the last three days in Yalta counseling George and Eileen.  The four of us were together for most of the time, with my ladyfriend chatting constantly with Eileen while George and I had our own conversation.  I don't know what the women talked about, but George and I had gotten to the point where we referred to Eileen as the Scorpion Queen and we were having a pretty good time with it. (At least, I was.)

To her credit, my ladyfriend managed to remain very attentive to me as well while the four of us were together.  She would check up on me regularly and try to include me in on her conversations with Eileen.  She was affectionate with me the entire trip and it seemed to me that as we watched the other couple's relationship disintegrate, our relationship was growing stronger.  I really liked this woman and thought of ending relations with her seemed more difficult as time went on.   

[timothe]

I woke up Friday morning resigned to my fate that I wasn’t going to marry this woman, even though I wanted our relations to work.  I still liked her and I believed her to be a kind, sincere, caring, and beautiful woman.  But I couldn’t sleep in the same bed with her and I couldn’t get past the fact that she wouldn’t listen to me when I talked about my life and my feelings.  Nonetheless, I wanted her to enjoy the remainder of the trip, so I decided that a change in mood was necessary.  I had to go out alone in the morning to the ATM so I made a spontaneous decision to find a flower shop and buy her some roses.  She always liked flowers, especially roses, so I thought this gesture might help us get through the remainder of our time together.  I picked out 5 red roses and 4 pink roses and proudly walked back to the apartment where my ladyfriend was waiting for me.

It was a good decision. 

I just don’t understand it, but my ladyfriend went crazy over these flowers!!  She used our coffee jug to arrange them. (I didn’t think to get a vase for her)  Then, she took some pictures of the flowers, arranged them again, took more pictures.  Then, she called Eileen to tell her about the flowers.  She talked about those flowers for the rest of the trip!!  You’d have thought she won a million dollars.  We had an exceptional day on Friday and a better night as we were able to watch fireworks out our window over the Black Sea.  I turned her down for a second time that week but we held each other closely and talked intimately for a long time.  This time, it wasn’t a difficult conversation. 

During this conversation of ours, I had an epiphany of sorts.  My ladyfriend explained to me that she had been to more places with me than she had ever been with her first husband of 6 years.  She went on to explain that she had never really gotten along with her husband but they had a child together, so they stayed together as long as possible.  In the end, he found someone younger and she couldn’t stay with him as he was continuing to chase other women. 

The epiphany for me was that she stayed with him for 6 years, even though it was obvious their relations were not going to work very early on.  And it wasn’t like she had to stay with him…she had her own apartment at the time that her rich uncle was paying for.  As she continued to explain how nice it was for her to have met me and all of the things we did together, I realized that this woman was not going to go anywhere unless I did something really terrible to her or her daughter…which I had no intention of doing.  All of the self-conscious, selfish crap that I was thinking that would cause big problems, (like my snoring), were just minor issues to her.  She had put all of her chips in the center of the table…for me.  No one has ever done that before. 

In one day, I went from being done with this woman to being totally and completely crazy about her…..all over again.  I thought again about the idea of ending relations with her.  It was an idea that seemed perfectly logical and the right decision just one day ago.  But now, the thought of walking away from this charming, intelligent, sanguine, beautiful, and somewhat mysterious woman seems impossible! 

I don’t want to sound like a sap, but honestly, I’ve never felt this way about anyone….ever.  That’s what I was thinking when I went to bed on Friday.  But in my head, I knew that I could do another 180 tomorrow.  Is this what it’s like to love a Russian woman?  The incredible joy one day followed by the incomprehensible frustration the next?  I’m so used to an easy life with no surprises and being in complete control of my emotions.  As I went to bed on that Friday evening, I didn’t feel like I had much control at all.  At the same time, I was excited about what the next day would bring.  More excited than I have been in a long time.         

[BillyB]

Is this what it’s like to love a Russian woman?  The incredible joy one day followed by the incomprehensible frustration the next?  I’m so used to an easy life with no surprises and being in complete control of my emotions. 

Not for me but if you like drama and surprises, there are women that will give you an emotional roller coaster ride throughout the relationship. I just don't think giving her flowers everyday is going to keep her happy full time.

I'm not defending the actions of her ex husband but it's possible he went looking elsewhere partially because he was turned off by his wife's attitude. Remember timothe, your lady has no problem exposing the apartment keys in front of guests in an act to leave you over a comment you made that upset her. You're rationalizing she's the type of lady who will stand by her man's side based on what she told you of her previous relationship but I bet she isn't based on her real life actions. Her words or actions, which do you trust more to evalute who she is?

Some of the good and bad behavior your lady is exhibiting mirrors my ex Ukrainian wife. I learned a hard lesson ignoring the red flags. The red flags clearly exist in your trip report.

[timothe]

Not for me but if you like drama and surprises, there are women that will give you an emotional roller coaster ride throughout the relationship. I just don't think giving her flowers everyday is going to keep her happy full time.

I'm not defending the actions of her ex husband but it's possible he went looking elsewhere partially because he was turned off by his wife's attitude. Remember timothe, your lady has no problem exposing the apartment keys in front of guests in an act to leave you over a comment you made that upset her. You're rationalizing she's the type of lady who will stand by her man's side based on what she told you of her previous relationship but I bet she isn't based on her real life actions. Her words or actions, which do you trust more to evalute who she is?

Some of the good and bad behavior your lady is exhibiting mirrors my ex Ukrainian wife. I learned a hard lesson ignoring the red flags. The red flags clearly exist in your trip report.

I disagree, Billy.  A red flag to me is when a lady behaves in a certain way to either a.) get what she wants b.) because she's crazy  c.) hide something

My ladyfriend overreacted to a comment I made in public about how much she eats.  To me, it seems perfectly normal for a woman to take offense to that comment.  I only illustrated this example to demonstrate her change in behavior from our earlier relations. 

I think part of my problem in having relations with this woman has been my constant search for red flags where there haven't been any.  I very well may have driven her away back in 2003 by my unfounded mistrust for her.  In the four years since we last met, she has never advertised herself on the internet and has never met another foreign man.  She's not in this for the money or the green card, I'm sure of it.

[Gator]

Is this what it’s like to love a Russian woman?

In my two experiences, yes and no.  The "yes" example proved too much for me.  The "no" became a true friend even though we have a huge age disparity.  You are you and I am me. 

From what you write, I would agree that your woman is sincere.  She seems to be self-absorbed to the point of doing most of the talking.   A woman with a hidden agenda would be acting as if she hung onto your ever word.  Women in love usually do not do all the talking. 

It sounds as if you can be yourself with this woman, and her with you.  This ease is good.  However, do you want a woman with whom you can have interesting conversations?  If so, you need to spend more time to be sure about this one based on what you have written.

[BillyB]

I disagree, Billy.  A red flag to me is when a lady behaves in a certain way to either a.) get what she wants b.) because she's crazy  c.) hide something

Pulling out the apartment keys isn't getting what she wants and not crazy? Blaming the entire Ukrainian population when a waiter screws up the order or anytime crap happens isn't crazy?

If I saw a man pull out his car keys as a threat to leave his wife whenever she said something is wrong, I certainly wouldn't think he's normal. If I saw a person blame the entire American population and America because his hamburger wasn't perfect or everytime crap happens, I certainly wouldn't think the person is normal. Red flags are there because of character/personality problems.

My ladyfriend overreacted to a comment I made in public about how much she eats.  To me, it seems perfectly normal for a woman to take offense to that comment. 

Earlier you said she overreacted to a "harmless, non offensive" comment you made and now you're saying it's normal for a woman to take offence to what you said??? timothe, it's sounds as if you're defending her after you said she was guilty. women can do that to men.

In the four years since we last met, she has never advertised herself on the internet and has never met another foreign man.  She's not in this for the money or the green card, I'm sure of it.

It doesn't matter if she's looking for a man on the internet. It's a red flag is she is not open to dating any man! If she has no need for men, she has no need for marriage. Unless of course the man can get her what she wants for her and her daughter.

Keep in mind, she did want to get hooked up with you after you moved to Texas, where one of her best friends happen to live. She also hates Ukraine and it's people enough to want out by any means IMO.

It alarms me that you say her actions now are much better than you remember in the past yet... you say you were not trusting enough. Maybe you were justified in not trusting her back then and now defending her past actions as a woman thing?

timothe, it seems like you're leaning toward making a relationship with your lady unless you have more surprises in your thread to keep us guessing. Have you met her daughter and interacted with her to see if she'd accept you as a father and if she's well behaved? Have you met your lady's parents and relatives to see if they have a good family relationship with each other? Have you met your lady's friends? If so how many times and how long did you meet them? All these things are a must before you pull the trigger on marriage.

[timothe]

timothe, it seems like you're leaning toward making a relationship with your lady unless you have more surprises in your thread to keep us guessing. Have you met her daughter and interacted with her to see if she'd accept you as a father and if she's well behaved? Have you met your lady's parents and relatives to see if they have a good family relationship with each other? Have you met your lady's friends? If so how many times and how long did you meet them? All these things are a must before you pull the trigger on marriage.

Yes, I met the whole family in 2003 back when we filed for the K-1 Visa the first time.  Her daughter is 13 now and I did not see her this trip, although I have spoken with her by telephone a few times.  I've asked about the child a number of times and my ladyfriend has been honest with me about her behavior.  She explained to me that the child acted up earlier in the year when she first had a boyfriend, but now she has returned to normal. 

The previous installments of my trip report were written on the airplane, but the last installments must be written from memory. I'll try to do it later today. 

[timothe]

My ladyfriend wanted to sleep in Saturday morning, so I headed over to Hotel Bristol with my computer to allow George access to the internet and to burn CDs with all of the pictures we had taken so far.  I found George in the cafe downstairs, but Eileen was nowhere to be found.  She eventually showed up, said a few snide things to George, then stomped away when he wouldn't pay attention to her. 

By this time, I was a little concerned about the influence that the Scorpion Queen had on my ladyfriend.  In 2003, there was a friend of hers that fed her a bunch of lies about the Visa process and I felt that this "friend" had at least a small part to play in our relationship problems.  In all of the time that I've known my ladyfriend, she's come across as a sheltered woman, somewhat spoiled by her uncle and a little naive about the dangers of the world and the deceptiveness of some people living in it.  In a way, her attitude about people is similar to mine in that she immediately trusts them and she seems to believe everything they say to her.  I like this quality about her, even though it has caused some problems with us in the past.  Most people mean well most of the time and it's easier for me to spend time with someone who likes to see the good in life rather than the bad. 

But like me, my ladyfriend seems to be drawn to negative people.  I think she believes she can fix them and at the same time, she's a little curious about the dark side of life even though she's scared to do some of the things that her wilder friends do.  On the other hand, Eileen is very much the wild woman...and the two of them have gotten along like hand in glove for the better part of five days now. 

Meanwhile, George is contemplating what he's going to do when we leave.  I told him many times to pay this woman to leave him and find someone else for the next 5 days, but George is reluctant to do that.  So I gave him a few more ideas about how to deal with Eileen and then we moved on to other topics.  I like George a lot, so I plan on keeping in touch with him after he returns from Kiev and I hope he does the same.  We ended up staying at the hotel until almost 1:30pm because it rained hard most of the late morning.  I was both surprised and pleased when my ladyfriend and Eileen showed up at the hotel shortly after the rain had stopped.  Honestly, I was expecting her to be upset, but she was happy to see me.  Immediately, she started talking about the flowers I got her the day before and how she rearranged them carefully.   

Our plans today are to go up the mountain by cable car, so we take a taxi to the station and crowd into this cable car like sardines.  My ladyfriend stays close to me as she is afraid of this mode of transportation.  We get to the top and take some pictures.  It was quite cold at the top of this tourist trap....err....mountain and the ladies wanted to leave immediately after the pictures were done.  We found a friendly mini-bus driver who was able to take our cable car tickets as payment, so we drove back down the mountain. 

We saw two different accidents on the way down and the driver got into a minor accident of his own because he was following a mini-van too closely and she braked unnecessarily.  There was no damage, but the ladies got scared and began chattering frantically.  One of the other accidents we saw during our trip down the mountain was fairly serious in that the car was basically stuck between two rocks right at the edge of a very steep dropoff.  I don't know if the driver could have gotten out of the car without tipping the car over the edge.  We did not stop, though, as the driver needed to get us to the bottom of the hill so he could get another fare. 

After our adventure on the mountain, we let George go back to the hotel for a nap while I played pack mule with the ladies.  You see, we were having dinner at our apartment tonight and the ladies had to buy a lot of things such as cooked chicken, wine, fruits and vegetables, juice, etc.  I enjoyed this kind of shopping. (because I didn't have to walk up a giant hill, like in Kiev)  The girls seemed in their elements and my ladyfriend was as warm as ever to me. 

I don't know exactly when I decided I would ask my ladyfriend to marry me for the second time.  I think I had decided on Friday night, but wanted to wait until Saturday.  The sequence of events is kind of blurry now.  However, I did know exactly how I was going to propose.  I wanted to propose to her in our apartment with George and Eileen present as witnesses.  There was no ring for me to give her.  (She still had the last one I gave her, which I was sure she was going to hock, but didn't)  By this time, I simply could not afford to buy her an expensive present even if I wanted to.  And she knew that, because I explained my financial situation to her thoroughly earlier in the week.

When we got back to our apartment, we saw a concert stage a little further down the walkway.  As it turns out, they were celebrating the 100th anniversary of Oreanda and the stage could be seen from our apartment.  The ladies prepared our dinner while I looked out the window and watched and listened to the music.  It was fantastic!!  The perfect atmosphere for a celebration.  The perfect atmosphere for love.

George arrived about 30 minutes later and the ladies sent us out the the store for a couple of items.  I told George my intentions and he spent the next 5 to 10 minutes trying to make sure that I knew what I was doing.  Then, we were back to discussing his situation as we walked back to the apartment.  Poor guy.

I wanted to propose to my ladyfriend before dinner, so I called for everyone's attention just as we were sitting down.  I took her hand, got down on one knee, and said:

My dear Olechka!!
I have no big gift for you this evening.
Only my heart, I can give to you
And I hope you will give your heart to me as well
I love you and I want you to be with me always
Therefore, I ask you...in front of our friends Eileen and George
Will you marry me please?

She blushed a couple of times, smiled wide, and hugged me tightly.  But she didn't immediately answer me.
When I asked a second time, she said yes, yes, yes, my Timmy!  With the music playing and the food on the table and our friends there with us, the moment was about as perfect as it could be.  Shortly after dinner, they had another fireworks show over the sea.  What a magnificent evening!!

 

[timothe]

There's not much more interesting to tell for the rest of the trip.  We left for Kiev the next morning...George and Eileen saw us off.  The plane ride to Kiev was a little hairy as we ended up flying in one of those propellor planes.  The next day, Olga saw me off from the hotel because she had to go to the train station and we decided it would save us money if she didn't go to the airport.  We did not cry when we parted, but Olga told me today by telephone that Monday was a very difficult day for her because I was not there. 

A few days have passed, but nothing has changed in my mind.  I'm not going to let this girl go again. 

My trip report is over but I think my journey has just begun. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Congratulations timothe!
     I've watched this thread and almost decided to jump in and make some comments, but you seemed to have a fairly decent grasp on most things so I decided to sit back and watch how things progressed.  You've gotten a taste of the good and the bad of RW (or all women for that matter) and seem to understand that you have to take the good with the bad.  Ultimately it seems you have decided that the good outweighs the bad.  Only you know your situation and your feelings.  I have read a few things that concern me, but I think that would be the case in any overview of someone else's relationship.  You haven't asked for advice so I haven't offered it, but I think now that you have begun the process of learning to have a longterm relationship with a RW and navigating the visa process you would do well to seek the ideas of the OMB's on this forum.

[Gator]

Congratulations Timothe.   You had mixed feelings about this in the beginning and during your trip.  However, in the end you had that wonderful feeling about her that says marry her.  When do you meet again?

I really appreciate your candid assessment of everything.  What I found important was that you could be yourself.  She does not seem as if she is trying to change you.

I have read a few things that concern me, but I think that would be the case in any overview of someone else's relationship.

And I am sure, Scott, that you could relay some aspects about your marriage that are not perfect.  Yet, overall it is obvious that you are very happy with your wife and your life with her.   You even moved to Ukraine to be with her. 

With any person, we must accept something that is not ideal.  Olga must accept Timothe's snoring and Timothe must accept that Olga at times is more emotional than him.  I have my faults, yet my woman tolerates them and even smiles at them sometimes.

[Simoni]

With any person, we must accept something that is not ideal.  Olga must accept Timothe's snoring and Timothe must accept that Olga at times is more emotional than him.  I have my faults, yet my woman tolerates them and even smiles at them sometimes.

I'll add my congrats along with Gators.

BTW-- My Marina sleeps so soundly that she did not notice my snoring.  But because I hate to snore, I had mine "fixed."  It took an hour and cured me.  Here's a link for anyone that is interested...
 http://www.snoringcenter.com/

[BillyB]

With any person, we must accept something that is not ideal. 

True but we must ask ourselves if there is better that we can obtain while understanding perfection is out of reach? From what I understand of timothe's past, he has not corresponded with a lot of women and doesn't have much experience with a "variety" of RW judge properly if there is better. The little things that are wrong now doesn't get better with marriage and can possibly get worse. I see a lot of things with timothe's lady that was in my ex-Ukrainian wife. I hope timothe's lady will learn to listen to his opinion and thoughts in a discussion. I hope timothe's lady does not pull out the car keys or apartment keys as a threat to leave if things aren't right for her. I hope she becomes more tolerant of a waiter's mistakes instead of becoming angry at an entire population/nation.

My current fiancee was happy when I suggested that I move to Uzbekistan for her. She also has a German work visa in her passport. She does not need me but she wants me. Scott's wife stood by his side when he lived and worked in Ukraine and I admire his wife for doing that. timothe, do you think your woman would still want you if you worked and lived in Ukraine? Food for thought but seriously, go ahead and suggest that idea to see what her reaction will be.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Congrats Timothe.  What do you have planned now?  More visits, k1 or marry in Ukraine and get a k3?


Thomas

[timothe]

Thanks for the comments, folks.  Please allow me the opportunity to comment on the more recent responses.  

Scott,

Thanks for your kind words!!  I think we've spent enough time together over the last 5 years to see the warts in each other and we've decided those warts are not dealbreakers.  My friends and I joke about seeing the dragonface...that is, the face a woman makes when she is the most angry.  If you've seen the dragonface and you still want to be with her, that's a good start.  I have and I do.  

Over the years, I've always wondered how two people from different cultures could marry without seeing the bad sides of each other.  To me, it seems logical that in all relationships, the bad side will come out eventually.  I would think that it should be more important that one sees the dragonface before one marries than it is for one to have sex before marriage.

Gator,

Thank you for your kind words as well.  Olga wants to change me in some ways, but most of the changes are things like eating better, keeping my clothes clean, and taking care of my health.  Right now, I look forward to these changes.  (who knows, I might not feel that way in the future.  We'll cross that bridge when we get there.)  I really like the way she tries to take care of me and I am humbled a little about how much she thinks about me and considers me in her daily life.  No woman has ever done that for me before.  

Simoni,

Thank you as well for your kind words and the link.  I'm going to find a solution to the snoring before she gets here.  (I will not visit her again, but I understand the Visa process times are much shorter now.  Hopefully, we'll be together by May and married by July or August.)

Billy,

You're second paragraph was the kind of dishonest behavior that I pulled on her during our first 18 months of relationship.  I have no desire to live in Russia, so why exactly would I "test" my ladyfriend by playing out some bogus scenario?  

When I offered to sponsor her in May, it wasn't a test.  I would have done it if that's what she wanted.  She has made it clear to me that there is no other man for her and I am honored that she found me again.  

Billy, you are also wrong about your first premise as well.  In addition to the Lithuanian woman I met in Chicago, I had a WOVO trip in 2001 and a WMVM trip to Moscow early in 2002.  Also, I had regular correspondence with women on ICQ, with whom I eventually met.  I don't have Turbo's experience in meeting women, but I'm no amateur either when it comes to meeting FSU women.

I pretty much gave up the search for FSU women after Olga and I parted in 2003.  (I made a couple of false starts...writing to women from freepersonals.ru, but never got back on the plane.)  The reason why I gave up on the FSU is that I experienced just how much work goes into these relationships if you want to do it right.  I learned firsthand that finding the right woman in the FSU is not at all like picking out a puppy.  (not even close!)  If I hadn't decided on Olga, I would have gone back to my single life.  Trying to find someone else besides Olga from the FSU was never an option for me.  

Nonetheless Billy, I appreciate your feedback.  Thanks.

    

[Mishenka]

Timothe,  I have read your posts from start to finish.  I want to encourage you in some ways. First, I think all the testing is over and done with,  you can find rest in that.    My experience with FSUW is that they may take some time to answer you but their YES means YES and their no means NO.   Yes YES YES after a marriage proposal means commitment and you may as well have just got married right then and their.  It means the same thing to her today or 5 years from now.  As a matter of fact, that is exactly what I would have done  if I was standing in your shoes.  Gimme a ring already.  If I can get Tatiana to  ever propose to me I will say YES loud and clear!  HaHa, She knows I could never say no to her.  We want to be sure, and are in no rush.  When the time is right, I hope I can pop the question as well as you did!

We are all very lucky men to be with such incredible women.  I am the most lucky of all of you!  Yes, it is a lot of hard work, but any relationship worth having is a lot of work, regardless of where we come from.  Work that comes with huge rewards.  Not that we seek the reward but it is nice to know we don't labor in vain. Best wishes to you both with everything!

Michael

[Gator]

Timothe,

Interesting comment about seeing the "dragonface."   I personally believe a major disagreement reveals much about the character of woman.

-  How long does she stay angry?

-  Does she withdraw (take flight) or does she try to communicate?

-  Is communication two-way in which she attempts to try to understand your perspective, or does she place all blame on you?

-  Does she seek a "win-win" resolution of the disagreement?

-  Does she try to make all disagreements end productively?

-  Does she want makeup sex?

Even if someone is not skilled in these areas, they can change if they try.

[BillyB]

Billy,

You're second paragraph was the kind of dishonest behavior that I pulled on her during our first 18 months of relationship.  I have no desire to live in Russia, so why exactly would I "test" my ladyfriend by playing out some bogus scenario?  

timothe, re-read what I said. I did not recommend dishonest behavior. I recommended you to "suggest" to your lady about moving to the FSU as in "Honey, what would you think if I lived and worked in the FSU?" Nothing dishonest about that.

It's important to understand the reactions of the woman you're marrying in various situations. Positive or negative? It's not about testing her, it's about knowing her. Your trip report with a marriage proposal is much different than others I've read. It has a negative feeling to it compared to others I've read that are more joyous right before a marriage proposal. Besides the other things recently talked about such as the waiter episode and the threat to leave by pulling out the keys, there are more such as the time she did not like the rental apartment and she took her frustration out on you but you did not want to fight and kept your cool. You also mention she's drawn to negative people. Why not tell your fiancee that she was out of line by being frustrated with you about the apartment? What do you think her reaction would've been if you said that? Would she blow up even more or say "You're right darling, sorry for taking my frustrations out on you."

timothe, I hope you understand my objective is not to break up your relationship but to give you pause on things you might have missed or dismissed as nothing. I have one question for you. Since the trip report has ended and you proposed with her accepting, why do you still use the term "lady friend" when speaking about her in your last post? What's wrong with saying "fiancee"?