Pay per view, letters, translation and such.

[icqu2]

Hey y'all!  I've been a readin' posts and threads, tryin' to get kinda familiar with the members here and also learn as much as I can on my on without havin to rely too much on my own posts, but could use a li'l help and advice on some things.

Now I realize there will be some that disagree, but I have a problem with "Pay Per View" - i.e. paying a membership fee to a site just to obtain others' email addresses or the like.  Nor can I justify paying for simply sending an email to another.  I won't go into specifics as to why and know the arguments, but suffice to say that I just don't believe it proper and plus I do not really trust such "services" anywayz.  With this in mind, I understand that I will not have much contact with "the pick of litter" or "the cream of the crop" and am just fine with that - as I have no interest in those in the age range of 19 to 27 ish that generally fall into the aforementioned two categories.  So, and I'll use Brides.ru as an example, that leaves me with a wide variety of very nice looking ladies in the age range I prefer that have free email addresses.  Where I need a little advice is that when emailing to these this or like sites, should emails be sent in English or should they be translated to Russian before sendin'?  Also, and I hope this doesn't sound too stupid, is Russian pretty much "universal" throughout the FSU or does it differ say like in the Ukraine?

And lastly, I'd like to begin to learn how to speak, read and write Russian and checked into RosettaStone and was intrigued with the concept and teaching methods - but shocked by the cost! (I know - I sound like a cheapskate but that's not necessarily true, more so just penny wise).  Has anyone tried RosettaStone?  Results?  Does anyone know of other successful methods or programs one might suggest?   

'Preciate y'alls input!
icqu2
-aka- gg

[SANDRO43]

Where I need a little advice is that when emailing to these this or like sites, should emails be sent in English or should they be translated to Russian before sendin'? 

BrideRu profiles include the item "Languages spoken", so it would be wiser to focus your search on those which specify "Good english" or better, also in consideration of a possible after-email phase (meeting ). You might want to include something like "Жаль я не могу написать Вам на русском языке" (Sorry I cannot write you in Russian) or a similar simple phrase obtained from an online translator, to stress the point.

[icqu2]

Great suggestion on the closing phrase! Thank you kindly!!

[BillyB]

  Where I need a little advice is that when emailing to these this or like sites, should emails be sent in English or should they be translated to Russian before sendin'? 

Your choice but I do know the ladies who have an @mail.ru account has their own translator that comes with the account so you don't have to translate their's or your letters. For me, I wrote my letters in English.

[SANDRO43]

And lastly, I'd like to begin to learn how to speak, read and write Russian and checked into RosettaStone and was intrigued with the concept and teaching methods - but shocked by the cost! (I know - I sound like a cheapskate but that's not necessarily true, more so just penny wise). Has anyone tried RosettaStone? Results? Does anyone know of other successful methods or programs one might suggest?

You must realise that if you want to learn Russian with some proficiency, you have a LONG way ahead of you. Personally, I am skeptical about language-teaching SW, for the simple reason that you cannot ask them clarifying questions when you don't understand something, and I would suggest formal classes with a human teacher, at least at the beginning, to lay a good foundation.

An inborn aptitude for foreign languages is also VERY useful: do you speak any other languages, besides English ?

is Russian pretty much "universal" throughout the FSU or does it differ say like in the Ukraine?

I understand that they tend to speak Ukrainian in Western Ukraine, and Russian in Central/Eastern Ukraine, and that the two languages are very similar (like Italian and Spanish, for instance), but others are probably more qualified to answer this.

[Simoni]

Has anyone tried RosettaStone?  Results?  Does anyone know of other successful methods or programs one might suggest?   

I didn't  like RosettaStone.  Big bucks for no bang.  Don't believe their "State Department" references.

The program sucks, IMHO.

[icqu2]

You must realise that if you want to learn Russian with some proficiency, you have a LONG way ahead of you.

Yes, of course.  It would not be realistic to believe one could learn a new language as well as different and new speech patterns in a short amount of time.  However, "proficient" was not necessarily my goal, but more of a basic understanding.  And with the 4 "D's" (Drive, Determination, Desire, Dedication) as allies, I do not believe this to be an unsurmountable task.   

Personally, I am skeptical about language-teaching SW, for the simple reason that you cannot ask them clarifying questions when you don't understand something, and I would suggest formal classes with a human teacher, at least at the beginning, to lay a good foundation.

Lost me with the "SW"??    but good and valid point regarding classes and instructor.

do you speak any other languages, besides English ?

Yes, a pequenos bit of Spanish.  Uh, no not Spanish - Tex-Mex I guess would be a more proper description of the language.

Your choice but I do know the ladies who have an @mail.ru account has their own translator that comes with the account so you don't have to translate their's or your letters. For me, I wrote my letters in English.

Ahhh, did not know this was the case, YANK THOU MERRY VUCH!      A few of the letters I have received did not appear they had a translator - possibly they felt one unnecessary. 

Would you happen to know if Brides.ru offers translation service for even those that have "free" email addresses?

I didn't  like RosettaStone.

So, you tried Rosetta Stone?  Did you take the online course or purchase the CD/DVD-Rom package?

Thx y'all!!

[SANDRO43]

However, proficient" was not necessarily my goal, but more of a basic understanding.  And with the 4 "D's" (Drive, Determination, Desire, Dedication) as allies, I do not believe this to be an unsurmountable task.

I think 1 P (Perseverance) should be added to your 4 Ds . Learning Russian is more akin to a marathon than to a 100-metre dash.

Lost me with the "SW"?? 

SoftWare, i.e. computer programs.

Yes, a pequenos bit of Spanish. Uh, no not Spanish - Tex-Mex I guess would be a more proper description of the language.

Not a very reassuring reference, since it should be un poco/un poquito (a little), while pequeño means "small".

To continue the sports analogy, it looks as if you're setting out to scale Mount McKinley (the Himalayas being the non-Indo-European languages like Chinese) without prior training on some local hills. Good luck, anyway.

[icqu2]

Not a very reassuring reference, since it should be un poco/un poquito (a little), while pequeño means "small".

Yes, I am well aware of the definition of pequeños, but I fail to see your point.  If I had wanted to use poquito - I would have done just that.  Why is it you think you must speak for me or put words in my mouth? (Meant rhetorically, no answer required.) For I surely do not recall asking you to speak for me.

My knowledge, or what you may consider a lack thereof, of any language was never meant to provide you with ANY reassurances.  It must be a great burden that you must bear being one who is all knowing of another's capabilities from a few written lines of text.  And, how mundane it must be for you to have the gift of foresight, all the while knowing what outcome is in store for others, knowing one's limits and abilities.  But - I guess that is why you clearly are: The Master of Motivation.

If you have no positive input and can provide no real constructive information while trying to staying on subject matter, I - quite frankly - prefer you kept thoughts and comments to yourself on any of my future posts.

And BTW, I did in fact utilize the "P" word you suggested.  Perhaps you may want to to refer to a dictionary. No wait, better yet, please allow me to kindly return the favor you felt you must bestow upon me.

Perseverance
Noun
1. persistent determination

[BillyB]

Would you happen to know if Brides.ru offers translation service for even those that have "free" email addresses?

Bride.ru offers no services. But you can use free on line translators such as Babel Fish or Prompt. If you want professional letter translation, there are a few non agency companies who offer the service if you e-mail them your letters and pay per word/page. But it could be expensive since the numerous letters will add up. Google "russian letter translations per word" for prices and companies who offer the service.

[icqu2]

Your choice but I do know the ladies who have an @mail.ru account has their own translator that comes with the account so you don't have to translate their's or your letters. For me, I wrote my letters in English.

I think I understand now.  If the last part of their email address is "@mail.ru" it has a translator in the email program.  So, when sending one an email in English, it is translated to Russian for the receiving party.  Is that correct BB?

[Turboguy]

I have Rosetta Stone.   It is fairly highly thought of.  I also have Pimsleur in Russian Sets 1,2 & 3  (16 cd's in each set. 

Rosetta stone seems to shine at teaching new vocabulary words.   I already had the alphabet down pretty pat when I started and I am not sure that it would shine so much without that.   The chief dislike I had with Rosetta was you had to make special time for the lessons.  I never got as far into Rosetta stone as I should have but it was ok.

Pimsleur is stronger on verbal communications.  It does not require you to set aside special times as you can listen to it as you drive.  The biggest complaint is that is repeats too much and gets very boring.  New words come very slow.

I have about 4 other programs or sets for learning Russian as well.   The two I would give honerable mention to was Russian Fast and Easy because it is cheap and really fairly good.   You can even get it on eBay reasonably.   The other I liked was Russian Now by Transparent Language.  For some reason I think it was always my favorite but it is hard to find. 

Learning Russian is not easy.   I studied French for 2 years in H.S. and one on College and that was so easy compared to Russian.   Had I spent a few months in Paris or the like I have no doubts I would have been quite fluent.  As bad as my French is after many decades of non use, I would bet I could do better at carrying on a conversation in French than in Russian and I have spent 10 times the effort on Russian. 

[SANDRO43]

Yes, I am well aware of the definition of pequeños, but I fail to see your point.  If I had wanted to use poquito - I would have done just that.

My point is that you used an adjective where an adverb was required, one of those little things that have to be remembered when using ANY language.

Why is it you think you must speak for me or put words in my mouth? (Meant rhetorically, no answer required.) For I surely do not recall asking you to speak for me.

You're not making much sense here.

My knowledge, or what you may consider a lack thereof, of any language was never meant to provide you with ANY reassurances.  It must be a great burden that you must bear being one who is all knowing of another's capabilities from a few written lines of text.  And, how mundane it must be for you to have the gift of foresight, all the while knowing what outcome is in store for others, knowing one's limits and abilities.  But - I guess that is why you clearly are: The Master of Motivation.

Your masterful irony is wounding me deeply , as are your convoluted sentences. However, in consideration of the following, I shall refrain from pointing out their semantic inconsistencies.

If you have no positive input and can provide no real constructive information while trying to staying on subject matter, I - quite frankly - prefer you kept thoughts and comments to yourself on any of my future posts.

Point noted. I was trying to make you realise that you appear to be a bit ill-equipped now for the task (hence my previous suggestion of formal classes, where they can hopefully remedy that, is even more to the point), but since your sensitivity can only accept "positive input", I shall not bother again to make you face reality. Good luck again, and keep us informed on your progress.     

[2tallbill]

Learning Russian is like Eating an elephant.

You can't eat an elephant in a day or even a month.
Neither can you learn Russian in a day or a month

If you freeze an elephant and eat an Elephant sandwich every day for a couple of years
then eventually you will have eaten the entire thing.

If you study Russian every single day for a couple of years you will learn it and be fluent in it

Maybe my analogy is a little tortured but still accurate IMHO.

Bill

[BillyB]

I think I understand now.  If the last part of their email address is "@mail.ru" it has a translator in the email program.  So, when sending one an email in English, it is translated to Russian for the receiving party.  Is that correct BB?

It is not translated automatically but manually with very little ease by the Russian lady on the receiving end. She should manually, with ease, translate her letter to English before sending it to you also.

[icqu2]

Your analogy was very well put, 2tall.  Thanks!  My initial thoughts, in comparison to a race, I knew it would not be a 10-mile trek or even that of a marathon, but more akin to a triathlon.

Turbo, YOU - as usual - read my post and provided me with information I had hoped for in regards to Rosetta Stone and the other different methods / programs out there.  Now that's not to say that others did not also make some very good, valid points and did address some of my other questions with very their opinions and useful information as well.  I do find it dismaying though that there are those here that feel they must dissuade others who wish to gain knowledge and at times require assistance from those who have gone before.  This type behavior / attitude by those so self serving and insecure might possibly be discourage  other members - new or existing - or ones that may be timid who might be considering a post, also wanting to learn.  Nevertheless, this is a free country and we are afforded freedom of speech, which inevitably means we all have to put up with some BS at times.

And from the department of redundancy department, again I do thank y'all for y'alls opinions.

[Kuna]

icqu2...

What hasn't been added yet is that the electronic versions of these Russian Language courses will almost certainly teach to you speak in a way that many Russians will not understand.

Example?

In the Pimsleur course one of the first thing you will learn goes something like this:

Ya tolka niminoga panimao pa-ruski... which translates to "I only understand a little Russian".

You'll bust your butt getting your tongue around rolling R's and follow the course through (I think) 2 whole lessons to get to that point - and then the first time you use it the native speaking Russian might just raise a brief giggle... or at other times a blank stare.

In hindsight I would have been best using the word "Angliski" and shrugging my shoulders when someone asked me the time on the street.

I've been told that people just don't speak that way.

The Rosetta Stone CD's will broaden your vocab and probably is more useful (in my opinion) than the Pimsleur courses because at least you can point at a car and say "Masheena" (written phonetically...) but you might look a little dim witted if you spend your whole time pointing at a glass and saying "moloko" and smiling, or looking worried saying "baggazh" (can't work out how to spell baggage phonetically) - but at least people will get the message.

In all honesty...  I reckon the Russian language you NEED to know on your early trips can all be found on the web FREE OF CHARGE.  Don't waste your money on the CD's because there's plenty of us here who have and still didn't achieve 10% of what the marketing promises.

Learn the alphabet and you'll be surprised at how many words you can read... and learn numbers because you'll need them when buying things.  learn a few common phrases and you'll see much appreciation from the ladies you meet.

A good woman will be impressed if you even show you've tried to learn a little but the thought of becoming proficient through an electronic course is a bit fanciful.

If you really want to be proficient I suggest you find a class in your local area or a native speaker to practice with you.  Other than that there's plenty of sites that will give you a few phrases but for your own sake DO NOT SAY "Ya Lublou tebya" on your first trip... that will probably get you in more trouble than you bargained for!   

So... if people don't sound enthusiastic or sound like they are discouraging you it's because unlike Turbo, they worked out it's a waste of time and money (mostly) to fork out bucks on these methods.  I've picked up more in the past 3 weeks since My Girl's arrival in Oz than I had in hundreds of hours on the web and sitting in from of the computer or listening to CD's.

I think I have 7 different electronic methods and in my opinion they're all as good (or as bad) as the other.

Google the obvious phrases and bask in the glory of not falling for slick marketing and incomplete (and bad) advice.

Good luck..

Kuna

[BillyB]

If one wants to learn Russian, WATCH how the natives speak. They move their jaw very little or not at all when speaking. If you do the same when speaking Russian, your pronunciation of words will be a whole lot better. Some FSU natives have commented that they heard no accent from me when I spoke a few words they taught me.

[SANDRO43]

So... if people don't sound enthusiastic or sound like they are discouraging you it's because unlike Turbo, they worked out it's a waste of time and money (mostly) to fork out bucks on these methods.

Shame on you, Kuna, for being ...

so self serving and insecure might possibly be discourage other members

"Tu quoque, Brute, fili mi" .

[Kuna]

Sandro,

I've heard if you buy 2 sets of the Pimsleur CD's you learn twice as quickly and if you drink lots of vodka your accent is perfect.

Hope this helps! 

Kuna

[Simoni]

So, you tried Rosetta Stone?  Did you take the online course or purchase the CD/DVD-Rom package?

I bought the Rosetta Stone program.  I studied it for many hours on my computer.  I did not like the word by word approach.  Babies learn language by listening to and interacting with conversations, not learning individual words.

Marina also told me the Russian speaker was not very good!  I switched to Pimsleur (sp?) and loved it.  I learned a lot of conversational Russian using it, and it really paid off this last summer when I was in the FSU for a month.  I was able to say what I needed to say, but was surprised that I understood a LOT that native speakers were saying.  Marina also shared that the voice coach in Pimsleur was much better, BTW.

[Simoni]

I've been thinking about this some more.

I suspect I like the Pimsleur audio version best because the visual picture of Stone with audio was so piecemeal and slow.

Just as people like different food, I think people will like different ways of learning language.  So my advice to someone learning Russian is to try out several programs and see what works best for you.

For me, it was Pimsleur.  Big time.

But the best way is to spend a few months in the fsu.  Immersion is the best way to learn a language, IMHO.

[icqu2]

Gentlemen - how does one continue to express his gratitude to others without sounding like broken record, all the while maintaining the genuine sincerity of the intent?  Unfortunately, I do not have the answer and therefore can only once again tell you all THANK YOU!  All y'alls info is very helpful.

As indicated previously, my intent was never to try to learn this most difficult language proficiently, but more to try to gain a better understanding of it.  Now with an idea of what other methods / programs are available and what others liked / disliked, I can begin to find out which one might work best for me.

1nce again, I do appreciate the input!!

Later Daze!

[Turboguy]

Sandro!

Icqu2.   There are some good points made here.   I think one important thing to consider is how you learn best.   Some people learn quicker visually some learn quickly with the sounds.   For me, I have no doubts that I am more visual in learning what tidbits of knowledge make their way through to my dense brain.   I really have to see the word to learn it well.  That did make Rosetta stone and Language now easier for me.

Kuna had some good thoughts in his post but I can say first hand that buying two Pimsleurs won't let you learn twice as fast.   I believe I have 3 sets of the early parts of Pimsleur.    The intro set, a full set of Pimsleur 1 in Cassettes and a complete set of Pimsleur 1 in CD's.   Not only that I have 5 sets of Language now (Versions 2 3 5 7 & and that has not helped me learn 5 times faster either.

There are some free on line lessons you can try things out with.  It sounds like the best way to learn would be for Kuna to ship you his girlfriend/fiancee.   Bill is right.  For me that method would never work.   In her little over a week here I have heard a few Russian words twice.   Mostly in situations that would compare to hitting your thumb with a hammer.   Otherwise all English.   It is not easy and you just have to take time.

Probably the best way is to take a university course.  Mostly because it forces you into some discipline and also you have a real person to correct you and help you.

Another thought is you might try to pick up some of the less popular but good Russian programs on eBay.   I picked up a copy of Russian Fast and Easy for $ 10.00 or so last year and it really is not a bad program.  You can also get Language now pretty reasonable on eBay. 

[icqu2]

Turbo, I too am a more visual "learner".  To see what the brain is trying process helps make more sense and provides me with a better understanding of how it all goes together, if you will.

(Not sure what the thumbs up were for as I chose not have anymore of Sandro's comments available for reading.  But whatever, to each his own.)

I may be way off base here, but it seems as though there is conflict between some here.  Maybe it's all in fun and I hope that is the case.  However if it is not, I'd prefer not to be a part of it - for it seems childish and very unproductive, imho.

Anywayz, I appreciate y'alls input and guess we can pretty much close this topic.

Thanx again,
gg