Should she report him to Antidate?

[KenC]

I've been thinking about how many times members of this board have given the advice to never pay a woman's travel expenses upfront.  They are told to ask that she pay and then reimburse her on her arrival.  They say that this is a good way to prove a woman's sincerity.  So now when a woman actually does this, we call her gullible and foolish.  Just maybe a woman has heard of episodes like this and rather than showing her insincerity by not paying up front, she is showing her common sense.  How many here would have labeled this woman as a scammer and dumped her if she had refused to pay her own travel expenses?

A very good point, Scott.  But it is also a rather well accepted rule not to visit the woman outside her own area too.  At least on the first trip.
KenC

[BillyB]

I just don't understand the people trying to protect the guy in this case.

Nobody is protecting the guy, we all agree he's a scumbag.

If it were reversed and the guy paid for the woman's trip and she didn't show, but at the last moment told him so, she would be labled a scammer, no questions asked. 
Billy,

Your example is not the same as the example Gator posted here. The RW did not send money to the man only for him to disappear forever.

His one decent act (of telling her he was not coming) does not counter all his misdeeds.  That is like saying "I'm a schmuck and I have lied to you all through this" and getting some sort of credit for being honest.  Wow, the standards for honesty must have been lowered when I was not looking.

Ken, if you accidently ran over a pedestrian but witnesses say you did it on purpose, you could be in real trouble. But if you did an act of good by trying to revive the person you ran over, your act of good will get noted and possibly counter witnesses testamony that you tried to kill the pedestrian on purpose.

If the man in question wanted to play a game and really hurt the RW, he would have let her fly to Turkey alone without stopping her days beforehand. She wouldn've had to pay for her own accomadations and food in Turkey. He prevented further financial disaster for the woman and people need to recognize that fact.

I agree the standards of honesty is lowered in this thread. How many people have not been honest with themselves and are quick to find guilt based on speculation instead of facts. Trust me, I speculate the guy is guilty on all accounts but I won't say he's guilty until I have the facts.

I have served on a jury and there was no doubt the man on trial used checks that were not his own for personal use. The question was if he stolen them, which is bigger crime. Witnesses in the building where the checks were stolen said they saw the man, in a janitor's uniform in an attorney's office where the checks were found missing the next day.

12 jurors could not simply find him guilty of stealing the checks just because he used stolen checks for personal use based on speculation. We needed witnesses/evidence to convict him of stealing the checks. We had the witnesses and he was found guilty on all accounts.

If anybody finds a credible witness that the man in question did not have trouble with his job, I will find him guity of playing a game with the RW.

Billy,
What good would it do to report the guy without his name and photo?  As a lesson to learn from?  That is very weak in my mind.

Ken, your question here was answered when you said "I will say that I do admire Jack's method of reporting scammers though.  He will not post a scammer unless he receives two reports,  That method does tend to eliminate anyone claiming "scam" out of bitterness of being dumped."

Jack doesn't list a photo and name based on one report but he can still effectively warn men not to send money to women as a lesson to learn from without the details.

I routinely tell people here of the red flags that I saw in my ex that I ignored as a lesson for others on what not to do. I have no interst in posting her photo or name.

I have not problem with scammers names and photo being posted if they're is more than one report or actual evidence such as an e-mail with headers requesting for money.

  If it is the truth, then his name and photo should be attached.  No one should be ashamed our their own truth.

This is exactly the attitude that makes Jerry Springer successful. People love to air out "their" truth and others love to hear and believe in it. I still say there is big bucks to be made in creating a site that allows people to list name, photo, and report the dirty deeds of their ex wife/husband or ex boyfriend/girlfriend. It'll be the Jerry Springer of the internet. Want to know if the man you're dating is a liar or is a sexual pervert? What to know if the woman you're dating is a whore or bad in bed? Come visit antimarriage.com for the truth.

If I believed everything I read in cross board fighting on the internet, I'd be hating a whole lot of people right now.

  I've been thinking about how many times members of this board have given the advice to never pay a woman's travel expenses upfront.  They are told to ask that she pay and then reimburse her on her arrival.  They say that this is a good way to prove a woman's sincerity.  So now when a woman actually does this, we call her gullible and foolish.  Just maybe a woman has heard of episodes like this and rather than showing her insincerity by not paying up front, she is showing her common sense.  How many here would have labeled this woman as a scammer and dumped her if she had refused to pay her own travel expenses?

Scott we tell both men and women here not to meet in neutral locations. BTW, I've told people men here if they do meet in a neutral location, it's okay to meet in a nearby town and pay in advance for her train ticket as long as you had traded many letters and phone calls beforehand and to keep plenty of backup in case of a no show.

[ScottinCrimea]

For being such a well accepted rule, it sure seems to be broken a lot, including by several of our members here.  I agree that it's foolish for both parties to meet on neutral territory, this case being one good example of why.

[Serebro]

People should report to Antidate when they are really sure that the guy is a scammer and that they got a lot of evidences to prove him to be a horrible person.

he doesn't have to be a scammer, he simply has to act like a kozel(goat)

[wxman]

We need to create a new site for these types of people. Instead of antiscam or antidate, we could now create one called Antikozel! 

[Gator]

A couple of you seem to be operating under the concept of “reasonable doubt”.  Such is an unnecessarily high standard for romance.  Romance involves trusting each other and doing something in good faith.

Nevertheless, if reasonable doubt is the doctrine, I have no doubt -  this man is potential trouble for the next RW he approaches. 

Surely the average man upon losing his job, would have called her, apologized, and promised that when he got back on his feet he would repay her.  Please keep in mind that the amount of money lost by the woman is huge in comparison with her income and small in comparison with the average income of a professional Brit. 

And many of you are presuming that he lost his job.  It is just as likely that at the last moment he decided that he was not ready, she was inferior, etc.  We don’t know.  The only reason for not calling is if he is dead.  If he is dead, placing him on Antidate is a moot point.

[Jazzyclassy]

I am sorry why on earth she bought tickets which were very expensive and she simply could not afford them ?there is something not matching here, if she has a low salary why is she buying tickets to meet somebody she never knew in some Turkey for the whole fortune????

He did horriblly awful I am not denying he is kozel and so on , just she has also no justification of buying such expensive tickets that now she has no money to live on or something
where is the clue in here?

You know some women even though being young, kind and willing for love tell at once to their potential parters , that she wont go to any 3d country in order to meet, as  russian girls are naturally very prudent, with all our statistics about maniacs and different perverts we are being warned in our childhood never to trust men you do not know, moreover to go and meet him somewhere in a  dangerous place as well

So what are we disscusing here, she did a silly thing herself and that is an honest opinion! He is a nasty person and probably wont be messing around with russian girls as he does not want any problems on his neck , so he might find some polish girl and pull her leg or something

[Jazzyclassy]

What I also wanted to add is that Antidate is Antidate, but this site can not control all those  nasty men , there will be 100 or at least 10 women who never seen the profile of this or that person on Antidate and they will believe and will be his victim anyway, we can not unfortunately prevent it. All we need to do is to warn women not to be so naive and at least try to understand what is the person whom they are talking with , whether they could trust him

[I/O]

I just don't understand the people trying to protect the guy in this case. KenC

KenC: The guy is an R-sole, that is a given. I have no dramas with hanging the dude for his slimeball actions, but I do have a problem with the amount of credibility antidate is being given here, either directly or by default. I suspect there would be far more people listed on dating sites that have never heard of antidate than there are people who are aware of it. I just don't see that as being any effective means by which to stop such people.

Whilst I have great sympathy for the lady in question, given her apparent connections, I am somewhat burmused by her naive actions.

I/O

[BillyB]

A couple of you seem to be operating under the concept of “reasonable doubt”.  Such is an unnecessarily high standard for romance. 

When romance goes bad, it is unnecessarily low to place the ex on an anti scam site.

Nevertheless, if reasonable doubt is the doctrine, I have no doubt -  this man is potential trouble for the next RW he approaches.  

I feel the same way with many people I work with too. They are trouble for the next man/woman they encounter. What should I or our government do about it? Dictate who should or should not get married or prohibit certain people from meeting others of the opposite sex? In preventing relationships for some, I'm all for castrating men who commit the worst sexual crimes and branding their forehead warning others of who they are.

Surely the average man upon losing his job, would have called her, apologized, and promised that when he got back on his feet he would repay her.

I think an exceptional man would do as you say but not the average man to an internet stranger. As I mentioned earlier, it's possible 60% of the k-1 never make it to marriage. People break up horribly for whatever reason and/or disappear. FSU rookie was engaged but his fiancee gave him an ulitmatum to move to Germany and then he found out she dated other men while they were engaged with photos as proof. He labeled her a scammer and wanted to expose her for what she is but I told him I didn't believe she should be on the anti-scam sites. She may be scum and a misguided and selfish 19 yo but not a scammer.

Another poster met a lady and she just disappeared on him recently. That was rude. This kind of stuff happens more often than we think.

 Please keep in mind that the amount of money lost by the woman is huge in comparison with her income and small in comparison with the average income of a professional Brit.  

Some, possibly most WM men are clueless to what a RW make and may even think her cost of living is cheaper, including airfare. There are times men spend money and do go and visit RW in her hometown which costs her nothing but the RW tells the man she's not available to date because she is sick or has job related stuff to do. If I remember right, one of Kuna's ladies he was supposed to visit with was busy with her work and nothing materialized. I do not believe the man should place a no show woman on an anti-scam site. There are times men meet women in a neutral place with each of them paying their own way but the RW does not show but warns the man ahead of time of her not being able to make it due to trouble at home. I do not think the man should put the woman on an anti-scam site although he was the only one that may be out of money.

And many of you are presuming that he lost his job.
 

We are all presuming something until we have the facts if he had trouble with work or not. If I was betting money, I'd bet he's a liar. Do you think there are enough facts here for me to win the bet from someone who'd bet against me? At this point, I don't think they'd be paying up. Be thankful the guy did not do worse to the RW by not calling her warning he couldn't make the trip or making the trip and raping her.

[wiz]

A very good point, Scott.  But it is also a rather well accepted rule not to visit the woman outside her own area too.  At least on the first trip.
KenC

ScottinCrimea

For being such a well accepted rule, it sure seems to be broken a lot, including by several of our members here.  I agree that it's foolish for both parties to meet on neutral territory, this case being one good example of why.

I am one of those members who broke this rule but everything was organised with common sense and nobody was scammed, incovieneced  or was hurt by the result. On the contrary we both had a very good time.

In an earlier post I have explained how to go about making arrangements for a meeting in another country and how none of the two parties suffer any financial losses in case of problems from either side.

I/O

I do have a problem with the amount of credibility antidate is being given here, either directly or by default.

Absolutely agree with you Matt.

Speaking from personal experience and own observations Antidate is regularly frequented by no more than 20 -30 members. Too much noise for nothing! 


PS: Kvinna the owner of Antidate is laughing all the way to the bank with the free publicity and traffic this post brings to her site!

[I/O]

I have explained how to go about making arrangements for a meeting in another country and how none of the two parties suffer any financial losses in case of problems from either side.

Wiz: So can we glean from this that you have had a deal of experience with this method? When did you manage to fit these bangs in amongst the dilemma and more recent sojourns not to mention your ex who was always on the phone during the dilemma?

I/O

[wiz]

Wiz: So can we glean from this that you have had a deal of experience with this method? When did you manage to fit these bangs in amongst the dilemma and more recent sojourns not to mention your ex who was always on the phone during the dilemma?

I/O

Last year before meeting in August, Mirror in the UK, I met another lady in Greece twice (June and August).....but after I met Mirror I used the same method for her to come on holiday to Greece with me in September. Money never changed hands in both cases and I used the services of an agent I know in Moscow to acquire both Visas to Greece and paid him directly.

Well after starting The Dilemma and thereafter..... I only travelled to Russia and also prepaid directly Aeroflot for Mirror's ticket to come for Christmas.....

With my new woman I have only travelled to Russia sofar but when time comes for her to visit the UK I will book the ticket directly with Aeroflot.

I still insist that there are safe ways to do it without been scammed for a lot of money.

PS: Did you really believed all that crap that I went and met 30 Women in Russia?
Just for your information I have been to Russia 10 times of which 7 where visiting Mirror 1 to St Peetrs before looking for a woman and the last 2 for my new woman.

[ScottinCrimea]

PS: Did you really believed all that crap that I went and met 30 Women in Russia?
Just for your information I have been to Russia 10 times of which 7 where visiting Mirror 1 to St Peetrs before looking for a woman and the last 2 for my new woman.

wiz, who are you trying to fool?  Maybe "only" 10 trips to Russia, but what about all of your sex trips to Ukraine?  Interesting how you conveniently failed to mention those.

[Serebro]

I am sorry why on earth she bought tickets which were very expensive and she simply could not afford them ?there is something not matching here, if she has a low salary why is she buying tickets to meet somebody she never knew in some Turkey for the whole fortune????

He did horriblly awful I am not denying he is kozel and so on , just she has also no justification of buying such expensive tickets that now she has no money to live on or something
where is the clue in here?

You know some women even though being young, kind and willing for love tell at once to their potential parters , that she wont go to any 3d country in order to meet, as  russian girls are naturally very prudent, with all our statistics about maniacs and different perverts we are being warned in our childhood never to trust men you do not know, moreover to go and meet him somewhere in a  dangerous place as well

So what are we disscusing here, she did a silly thing herself and that is an honest opinion! He is a nasty person and probably wont be messing around with russian girls as he does not want any problems on his neck , so he might find some polish girl and pull her leg or something

I agree, she did a silly thing, but many naive and loving people, optimists do silly things sometimes because they believe in the best personal qualities of people, they trust them and they believe in love.
Are you sure that this girl will do the same thing next time when she meets a GOOD guy, are you sure that she will want to help him?! Maybe yes, but maybe no and it will happen because of her bad experience with this guy.So what will the good guy read from her behavior?!That he is ready to come to meet her but she is a selfish girl who doesn't want to help him to find an apartment or to know some information for him...
Have you been to Antidate?! Have you seen women who have been hurt that way more than 1-3 times. They see bad men EVERYWHERE, every word, every man's joke is a reg flag for them.
when I was a student one day I went to Moscow to meet the man( a friend) who I had met online , in a chatroom, it was his idea and he promised to give me the money for the tickets back when he came to Moscow, I bought tickets that cost me (at that time)1500 roubles while my scholarship was about 600 roubles.If he hadn't come and hadn't kept his promise I would have probably never been on this website and I would have probably had a Russian husband now.

[Gator]

Serebro,

Agree totally with you.  It is the RW with a warm heart, such as my Moscow woman's friend,  that we all seek. 

There are many sweet RW.  Few, however, would take the chance.   She did and she lost.  She is a "big girl" and understands her mistake.

Fortunately, her heart is still warm and she is progressing with another man, this time an American.  Perhaps she has given up on Europeans because she also had a bad experience with an older man from France, her heretofore favorite country.

[Simoni]

Fortunately, her heart is still warm and she is progressing with another man, this time an American.  Perhaps she has given up on Europeans because she also had a bad experience with an older man from France, her heretofore favorite country.

Glad to hear the story has (hopefully) a happy ending, Gator.

I also met a lot of fsu girls that "wanted" a man from France or Italy.  But as more and more of us Americans are successful, the world on the streets of the fsu is improving about us :-)  LOL

[Mir]

I also met a lot of fsu girls that "wanted" a man from France or Italy.  But as more and more of us Americans are successful, the world on the streets of the fsu is improving about us :-) 

I peg to differ.
When the CCCP collapsed and the MOB business exploded the majority of FSU girls wanted an American (from the USA) husband. I remember many of the profiles said 'Only looking for men from US' and none said looking for Brits, or Spanish etc.
The reason was simple, America has always been the land of opportunity for immigrants and why should be it any different for these nuptial migrants?
With time actual reality was learnt by these women, they realized that men from US were like men from any other Western country, they could be good and they could be bad. Also they realized that the streets of US cities are not paved with gold. So the non-US men become worthy of consideration. The fact is that the popularity of American(US) men as mail-box husbands is declining.
This in no way means that the Brits or Spaniards make any better husbands then Americans, just that if one group of people is placed on a pedestal that the chances of them being a disappointment is higher.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Well, i voted Yes of course. Mentioning his name and all the details.

Revenge? Well, in my book it is 'spanking' or 'has to learn a lesson' and more over 'for her and OTHER WOMEN to learn a lesson'. Should we leave it to God? Of course. HE will do his teaching no doubt. But should we forget and move on? Move on - Yes, Forget - NO! Those who were hurt and went through such injustice should do something they can to stop such people or warn others, at least. God won't help those who can't help themselves.

I am not sure if Antidate does more damage than good. I would say more good. Because it teaches us something. That there are as many scammers on men's side as on women's side. it all backfires back and forth. Women do these things because there are men who do the same if not worse. I have read some stories where both men and women got on that site by mistake or under unjustified circumstances, and i am very sorry for them, but this is life, again it is a case where 'some bad people' spoiled it for 'many other good people'. This idea is very familiar for us all.

Serebro, I think your English has improved, considerably! Am i right, people? 

Jazzy, congrats with your marriage! It is so nice to see that this relationship didn't drag for 5 years...(there are young people from another thread who seem to want that for themselves.  ) I am so glad you are still on this board participating this way or the other in these men's lives. 

[Simoni]

I beg to differ.
When the CCCP collapsed and the MOB business exploded the majority of FSU girls wanted an American (from the USA) husband. I remember many of the profiles said 'Only looking for men from US' and none said looking for Brits, or Spanish etc.
The reason was simple, America has always been the land of opportunity for immigrants and why should be it any different for these nuptial migrants?
With time actual reality was learnt by these women, they realized that men from US were like men from any other Western country, they could be good and they could be bad. Also they realized that the streets of US cities are not paved with gold. So the non-US men become worthy of consideration. The fact is that the popularity of American(US) men as mail-box husbands is declining.
This in no way means that the Brits or Spaniards make any better husbands then Americans, just that if one group of people is placed on a pedestal that the chances of them being a disappointment is higher.

You really can't beg to differ with my direct statement that "I met a lot of fsu girls that "wanted" a man from Italy or Spain."  That was what I experienced and reported.  They liked men from Europe for two reasons, they said... 1) they were romantic, and 2) those countries were closer to the fsu.

Now, about my second statement "But as more and more of us Americans are successful, the world on the streets of the fsu is improving about us :-)"  that is true too, in my circle.  Marina has perhaps 50 friends I met this summer, friends that were largely anti-american.  Now they see much more potential :-)

So, Mir-- I was speaking only from my experiences, which was implied in my original post.

[Mir]

So, Mir-- I was speaking only from my experiences, which was implied in my original post.

Point taken

[SANDRO43]

I also met a lot of fsu girls that "wanted" a man from France ...

Aha ! We finally get to the real, deep reason behind all that France-bashing .

[Simoni]

Aha ! We finally get to the real, deep reason behind all that France-bashing .

hee hee 

[BillyB]

But should we forget and move on? Move on - Yes, Forget - NO! Those who were hurt and went through such injustice should do something they can to stop such people or warn others, at least. God won't help those who can't help themselves.

Anastasia, I think you are misinterpreting the real meaning of "forgive and forget". If a man murdered a family member of yours, it's important for you to forgive and forget not for the benefit of the murderer, but for yourself so you could heal and move on with life and function properly. It's certainly not healthy for a person to remain bitter living with anger and sadness all their life because they can't get past the horrible past, thus they should forgive and forget all wrong done to them. The murderer must still pay his debt to society for his crime and should not be given a free pass in life because people forgive him. If one believes in God, then the murderer will be judged again.

[KenC]

BillyB,
Good luck with using that thought process with any Russian!
 
KenC