How you met your wife or fiance part II

[Simoni]

So according to the age of the members of RWD it looks like they are afraid of losing much time so that's why these WMVM/WMVS methods are so popular.

No, this is incorrect.   My first several trips were to meet with and spend 10 days with one girl, whom I had written for months.  Each time, I did not like her.  That is not a very comfortable for either person.  She feels like she has to entertain you and take care of you, even though there is no spark.  So that is not a time issue, but a personality issue.  Why be committed to a person you have yet to meet in real life?

So these experiences told me it's better simply to go and meet people, like dating works in real life.  That way, neither of you have an unrealistic, advanced commitment.

[Simoni]

What is chemistry to most of you? Sexual attraction, or you mean soul mate connection?

Soul mate connection.  But soul mate connection certainly includes chemistry.

[Serebro]

I think you underestimate the cost of this exercise from a man's perspective greatly. For those who don't own their own business and even for some who do time away from work is a severe limiting factor on it's own. You are basically asking a man to blow up to $3000-$5000 on a blind date.

I think you underestimate the cost of my exercise, too.
I took private English lessons 3-5 times a week after lessons/work for more than 3 years' time.
I used my own money for that. I have 2 higher educations.I didn't ask anyone to pay for me.
I didn't ask foreign men to send money to me.

So why should I count his money he spends on his trip?!Does he count mine when he comes to me after a few months of every day letters and phone calls(DO YOU CALL THIS a BLIND DATE) without paying for interpretors or translations and meets 10 more girls who went to night clubs after lessons and have sex when they were students instead of learning something else like I did?! I don't offer him a child from the previous marriage he will have to pay for. Though I am ready to date/marry a man with a child.
?!
All I want is to be the only one. Ain't I worth it?!!!!

[timothe]

Yep...!~!! That is exactly what they ask for and they don't mind doing it time and again, but there is very very few of these women who will apply the same standards in reverse. The ones who do are IMO the real gems, but they are rare. I looked for one, didn't find one, gave up and she found me. I dunno, how do ya work it out. :noidea: :noidea: :noidea:

A shrewd man once said, "Women are the queerest cattle you'll ever try to pen".

I/O

That's pretty much my story.  I was not going to go through the pain of another long distance relationship.  I'm hoping the next chapters of my story turn out as well as yours, I/O.

[KenC]

The never ending debate on meeting one vs meeting many will go on forever.  I think it is rather funny too because everyone is attempting to get down to the one person who is Mr or rs right for them.  We all start with meet many if you think about it.  It is just a matter if you met them virtually or in person.  I wrote this in another thread:
I think the problem most guys have with meeting many is that they think they have to get deeply involved with all of them and that is just plane incorrect.  I would use an agency as an introduction agency not a marriage agency.  Get a rather large list of ladies you are interested in meeting.  No promises, no lovey dovey correspondence, just women that meet your basic criteria and would be interested in meeting you.  Pull no punches and let them all know you coming to town to meet some women and to narrow the prospects down to a few.  Schedule your trip and have maybe 20 women you might be interested in meeting.  No lunches, no dinners and certainly no side trips planned, just meet them in the office of the agency or if you are interested in anyone in particular, invite her for a coffee or a tea and see where it leads.

There is nothing wrong with just meeting ladies that might be interested in you in particular and have an open mind on relocating.  Too many guys get too deep into a "virtual" relationship before going over and think they are half way home or even in love before they buy a plane ticket.

I think when we get into this debate it is mostly that we all have a different concept of how much you know the person you are meeting.  I think it is wrong to get too deeply involved emotionally with more than one woman (or man) at a time.  But I also do not see any wrong doing in meet multiple women whom with you have a casual relationship.  When you are single, every other single woman (or man) is a potential mate.  So what is wrong with making the decision of who you are going to purrsue after meeting them face to face?  Many people here have said you learn more in the first few moments face to face than you would in many many emails, so why would anyone not take that course of action?
KenC

[Serebro]

A greedy man pays twice
(a russian saying)

[Misha]

I agree with Serebro I would never date a guy who came to visit many women at once and I never did
That is personal choice and personal culture and depends on  what is important for you !

People who want to create stable, serious relations likely always do WOVO trip and usually succeed, those who are always in search I suggest that marriage is not for them

Unfortunately such boys from Uni may never grow up and after they are 50 they still think like that-Why not? why not to date several women I need my chemistry - What is chemistry to most of you? Sexual attraction, or you mean soul mate connection? Well that is a big question and each of us understands it how we need to and think is right.

Anyway am just speaking my mind, for the majority of guys here my opinion is wrong  in the first place so who ever cares .......

JC, you overlook one thing: what happens when it is the woman that does not have "chemistry" for the man? Before meeting my wife, I had corresponded with another woman for months. We had spent hours talking on the phone. We had shared everything and I thought that we had a deep connection. I went to see her, and I fell in love with her after meeting. BUT SHE DID NOT FALL IN LOVE WITH ME! We spent time with each other, but nothing changed. If anything, she realized that she was still in love with her ex-husband. So, I left. Fortunately, I did eventually meet a woman who did fall in love with me, a woman who wanted me, and a woman that I loved, and a woman that eventually became my wife.

The problem therefore is not only with the man, but also the woman. What are the odds that two people will fall in love with each other? I would say much less than 50%. Sometimes the man falls for the woman and she does not fall for him; sometimes it goes the other way round, and sometimes neither falls for the other.

A WOVO trip is not necessarily a bad thing, but a man doing it must realize that the odds are stacked against him. He should realize that the woman will know whether or not she is truly attracted to him and whether there is "chemistry" in the first few minutes. Even if the man spent months writing her and phoning her, there is still no guarantee that she will fall for him when they finally meet in person. Yes, he may know that she has all the right qualities that he is looking for in a woman, but he cannot guarantee that she will fall in love with him.

[William3rd]

I think you underestimate the cost of my exercise, too.
I took private English lessons 3-5 times a week after lessons/work for more than 3 years' time.I used my own money for that. I have 2 higher educations.I didn't ask anyone to pay for me. I didn't ask foreign men to send money to me.

All I want is to be the only one. Ain't I worth it?!!!!

YES- you are worth it. I found that the majority of WM seldom take into account the sacrifices that the women make, not limited to being willing to relocate thousands of miles from home away from family friends and culture for the "better" life.

And very few of the men ever take your work into consideration. I guess we are all just into ME as in MEn. Is it a "guy thing?" I dont know.

Serebro, I am surprised that you are still looking. You should have been snapped up a long time ago.

[Serebro]

Serebro, I am surprised that you are still looking. You should have been snapped up a long time ago.

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I say to myself every morning when I come to the mirror.

[deccie]

I think you underestimate the cost of my exercise, too.

I assure you I don't.

I took private English lessons 3-5 times a week after lessons/work for more than 3 years' time.
I used my own money for that. I have 2 higher educations.I didn't ask anyone to pay for me.
I didn't ask foreign men to send money to me.

That comes down to self respect doesn't it? I don't know your personal history as to whether you were in a stable relationship at any period during this time or engaged. if you weren't, then doing it on your own even if communicating on an ad hoc basis with men would strike me as a given???

So why should I count his money he spends on his trip?!Does he count mine when he comes to me after a few months of every day letters and phone calls(DO YOU CALL THIS a BLIND DATE) without paying for interpretors or translations and meets 10 more girls who went to night clubs after lessons and have sex when they were students instead of learning something else like I did?!

I really didn't understand this point. Firstly, the meeting IS a blind date. Those letters and phone calls and emails may help build up an image of someone but that image may or may not reflect reality. That meeting is the first step in confirming/refuting that image. If the man was intent on picking up 10 girls at night clubs over a period of time just to have sex with them and at the same time supposedly having a relationship with you then he obviously is either not serious or not treating you with respect or BOTH. In such a case he is therefore unlikely to consider the financial impact on you of your meeting as well. Again, seems to strike me as a given.

All I want is to be the only one. Ain't I worth it?!!!!

Now I'll throw the proverbial spanner.. Serebro, I don't know you so I cannot know if your worth it.
I hope so.
All I can tell you is the effort I have devoted to my own relationship. All my available leave since our initial talks have been devoted to keeping us together and in contact. And I mean all. I have not even had a day off to go and see my mother since embarking on this. I did the WOVO myself. I moved country to improve our income and facilitate our getting together more easily without having to wait for government decisions. So far,  I would make an estimate I have spent $30,000 on us getting this far. And I think it's worth every cent of that. But I still want my partner to be aware of the implications for me of our relationship and I try to be aware of the implications for her too.
I still want my partner to care about my money as if it were earnt as a result of her own effort because I certainly care a great deal about what she must do to earn her own money.

I don't see anything wrong with my position.

[I/O]

There is one little thing that always seems to go missing in these VM-VO discussions and that is the "Romance" factor. I have never spoken to a women (Of any nationality) who considers it very romantic to be one of a number being met. Conversely, most if not all women will be rather excited and very often brag to their friends of the man who is or has travelled half way around the world just for them.

Regardless of which is the more efficient method, there is a greater chance of drawing the romance out in lady by making her "special" from the start. OTOH finding a lady who will hold herself to the same set of criteria is a very 'nother thing and such women are rare.

The visit one routine can very often end in failure and OTOH the VM routine very often reeks of the "Pick a Puppy" scenerio. Neither is particularly appealing when one thinks about it.

I/O

[deccie]

T
The visit one routine can very often end in failure and OTOH the VM routine very often reeks of the "Pick a Puppy" scenerio. Neither is particularly appealing when one thinks about it.

I/O

I/O, great summation.

[Misha]

Regardless of which is the more efficient method, there is a greater chance of drawing the romance out in lady by making her "special" from the start. OTOH finding a lady who will hold herself to the same set of criteria is a very 'nother thing and such women are rare.

The visit one routine can very often end in failure and OTOH the VM routine very often reeks of the "Pick a Puppy" scenerio. Neither is particularly appealing when one thinks about it.

I/O

IMHO, if a woman "falls in love" the first date will always be the most romantic moment ever and she will construct for herself (and her friends) the appropriate story. If he planned to meet other women, she will say: "He came to meet 100 women, but he immediately fell for me and ripped up all the other addresses and phone numbers when he saw me the first time. He knew then that no other woman would match me,..." However, this is only the case IF SHE FALLS IN LOVE WITH HIM! If you do go to visit one woman and she does not fall in love with you, she will ridicule all your attempts at "romance" and attempts to make her feel "special"  (personal experience).

Speaking of "pick a puppy" scenario, here is a nice clip of speed dating on a train in Germany: "http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=69391." It seems that there is a common problem both in North America and Europe: how do you actually find someone that you can fall in love with?

[ScottinCrimea]

The type of woman you are more likely to meet on a WOVO is different than the type you are most likely to meet on a WMVM, just as the type of man who prefers a WOVO is different than the type of man who is a WMVM.  Some women just won't accept a WMVM man, the same as some men won't go visit a woman who is dating local RM as well as writing to and planning visits by several AM.

[Simoni]

I think when we get into this debate it is mostly that we all have a different concept of how much you know the person you are meeting.  I think it is wrong to get too deeply involved emotionally with more than one woman (or man) at a time.  But I also do not see any wrong doing in meet multiple women whom with you have a casual relationship.  When you are single, every other single woman (or man) is a potential mate.  So what is wrong with making the decision of who you are going to purrsue after meeting them face to face?  Many people here have said you learn more in the first few moments face to face than you would in many many emails, so why would anyone not take that course of action?
KenC

You nailed it, KenC.

  Some women just won't accept a WMVM man...

Scott--I met several girls in the FSU that disagree on the write one mentality. Why?  Because they invested months writing letters, only to find the guy was a lizard when he arrived.  It cuts both ways.

Romantic or not, most girls prefer meeting before falling in love.

Keep it casual, ore, as KenC wrote, "I also do not see any wrong doing in meet multiple women whom with you have a casual relationship."

[KenC]

There is one little thing that always seems to go missing in these VM-VO discussions and that is the "Romance" factor. I have never spoken to a women (Of any nationality) who considers it very romantic to be one of a number being met. Conversely, most if not all women will be rather excited and very often brag to their friends of the man who is or has travelled half way around the world just for them.

Regardless of which is the more efficient method, there is a greater chance of drawing the romance out in lady by making her "special" from the start. OTOH finding a lady who will hold herself to the same set of criteria is a very 'nother thing and such women are rare.

The visit one routine can very often end in failure and OTOH the VM routine very often reeks of the "Pick a Puppy" scenerio. Neither is particularly appealing when one thinks about it.

I/O

I/O,
The key (as I see it) to being successful in meeting many women without being deceptive or misleading is not to get romanically involved beforehand.  You may call it "picking a puppy" but others may view it as being introduced to women interested in meeting men from your home country.  What is wrong with a single man being introduced to single women?  I have long advocated that men use marriage agencies as introduction agencies. After the introductions, keep them (the agency) out of the loop as much as possible and let nature take it's course.
KenC

[Christian]

I think you underestimate the cost of my exercise, too.
I took private English lessons 3-5 times a week after lessons/work for more than 3 years' time.
I used my own money for that. I have 2 higher educations.I didn't ask anyone to pay for me.
I didn't ask foreign men to send money to me.

So why should I count his money he spends on his trip?!Does he count mine when he comes to me after a few months of every day letters and phone calls(DO YOU CALL THIS a BLIND DATE) without paying for interpretors or translations and meets 10 more girls who went to night clubs after lessons and have sex when they were students instead of learning something else like I did?! I don't offer him a child from the previous marriage he will have to pay for. Though I am ready to date/marry a man with a child.
?!
All I want is to be the only one. Ain't I worth it?!!!!

I think your perspective is essentially a correct one.  You are serious minded and quite open in your intent and motives.  If someone is concerned about anything other than your welfare and wellbeing then they should stay home and spend two dollars and buy a box of chicken wings....

But there are sexual predators out there and their visits only murk the waters and are founded upon ulterior motives - irrespective of the method employed - although skewed toward the more the merrier.  Even US government agents have reported with what ease a woman can be had in the larger cities (an irrelevant tidbit).

Serebro is correct in her perspective and certainly entitled to her own demands.

Christian

[Simoni]

Serebro is correct in her perspective

Really?   

Then you two are like-minded and a good match.  Write her...

[Jazzyclassy]

Really?   

Then you two are like-minded and a good match.  Write her...

what is so funny in that? he seems to be a person who knows things about russian  way of thinking  at least in this post

[BillyB]

Serebro and Jazzy, here's a few questions for you two young ladies. If a man wrote to you and said he's willing to commit only to you before ever seeing you in the flesh, do you believe him and think it's romantic? Do you think he's lying? Or do you think he's insane for falling in love with a photo?

If a guy writes to you, is honest and says he wrote to a few ladies and is visiting everbody he wrote to as friends and would like to visit you only as a friend, would you turn down the opportunity to meet? Assuming you had time, would you go on the date with your new foreign friend with no strings attached? If you do go on a date and before he leaves for home, he sits you down holding your hand gently, looks you in the eyes and says he felt that you are a wonderful woman in every way he could think of and enjoyed his time with you and wants to make a return trip to have more serious relations and would dedicate himself to you if you would dedicate yourself to him. Would you turn him down?

My fiancee knew I wrote to many women and she feels honored that I chose her over many others. The fact I had other opportunities in my life made me more valuable as a man. Women tend to think if a man doesn't have many choices in women, there's something wrong with him.

[Misha]

Serebro and Jazzy, here's a few questions for you two young ladies. If a man wrote to you and said he's willing to commit only to you before ever seeing you in the flesh, do you believe him and think it's romantic? Do you think he's lying? Or do you think he's insane for falling in love with a photo?

Or, how about the man insists that the woman commit to him and agree to marrying him before meeting in person. It is romantic after all. What is good for the goose, should be good for the gander 

[Christian]

Really?   

Then you two are like-minded and a good match.  Write her...

"...and certainly entitled to her own demands."

Tainsctvo idyot Iisusom (IMHAIO).

Christian

[HiTech]

"...and certainly entitled to her own demands."

Tainsctvo idyot Iisusom (IMHAIO).

Christian

I demand everyone on this forum, send me $1000 to cover my cost of traveling to the FSU.

HiTech

[pk-uk]

Some women have mentioned they will never date a man who visits more than one

I won't.
there's a border between doing "non-romantic" things and "romantic" things.

...

PS:it seems to me that the main aim of the men who do WMVM/WMVS is to GET MARRIED/HAVE A SEXUAL TOUR but not to meet his woman(maybe they want to meet a woman but it's not their number one reason) It looks like "they are ready to get married so they are going to meet as many people as possible to find at least someone who will be able to meet their expectations. So they use this method to have a being married(having sex)result.

....

So according to the age of the members of RWD it looks like they are afraid of losing much time so that's why these WMVM/WMVS methods are so popular.

Serebro,  I understand where you are coming from and why, but surely one has to take each "case" on it's merits.  I was a WLVL  (where L = loads and probably more than the average "many" - another poll? how many is many?  ).  Why? Was it money? Maybe, to a point.  Was it time? Most likely.

Having had a disastrous marriage, I first had to re-find my 'soul'  (no , I AM serious there) before even thinking about another relationship.  Having done that, I came to the conclusion I would prefer to be married and in a family unit and went about trying to find someone.  My logic from the start was that the more people I met, the more likely it was that I'd find that special someone - if, indeed, it were going to be my destiny at all.

When I started this "quest" I didn't even know about the internet.  However, I made the opportunities to meet lots of nice single women, but nothing clicked for me.  When I did, by chance, discover that there were those in foreign climes looking for love an idea sprang up in my mind.  I like travelling, I like holidays, I can't usually find anyone to go with, why not go meet some of these people.

So, I did.  I found the experience interesting.

I guess I'm a great believer in the "first minute syndrome".  In other words, on first MEETING someone you have formed 80% of your opinion in the first minute.  And for me, that works even if one has been having corresponding, chatting on the phone or some such for any length of time before the meeting.  So, to me - and to the ladies I'm sure - my first priority was to meet someone.  After all, I am not naive enough to fall in love with a photo and a load of words 

So, my first letter would include - I'm thinking of coming to xxxxx in a couple of months and would like to meet you.  OK, so I didn't say you and several others, but.......

Eventually, when I did write and say I am coming on xxxxxx, I did say that I was meeting others and could only manage so much time - but promised that if we hit it off I'd come back for a couple of weeks within a couple of months.  This is where it got interesting.  The replies brodly fell between:

- OK, look forward to meeting you
- I'm upset, I thought you were only writing to me

I wrote back to those who were upset and explained that I was sorry they had got that impression.  I also pointed out that we really didn't know each other and that if either of us decided within the first couple of hours that, for whatever reason, it was obvious things weren't going to work out then it would be silly to spend more time together - and that if we did both decide we'd like to see if there was a chance our relationship could develop into something special then I was committed to coming back to visit them and them only within a couple of months.

Without fail - even from those who said, I'm still not totally happy - I was thanked for my honesty and NONE refused to meet me.

You're right Serebro, there is a border between doing "romantic" and 'non-romantic" things.  And yes, I'm sure there are those whose are looking for sex on their tours.  As for the experience you recounted in your post there is also the matter of what was in his correspondence.  But as I say, surely judge each "case" on its merits.

And surely, yes, you can - and should - set the your own borders and limits in a relationship, whichever stage and of whatever type.  I guess what I'm saying is you seem to know why many do the WMVM but why dismiss these simply because they won't make you the "only one" before you've even met    At least, that's how it seems to me.

Sure I can understand you not wanting be number 8 out of 14.  I wouldn't either and if I ever got so much of a hint that I was in some sort of "pecking order" my interest would cease immediately.  My mantra was until you and your prospective had made a spoken/written dedicated committment to see if a long-term relationship could develop then meet them all.  You might think you have "met the best" only to find out that there was another.

And don't misunderstand me here - my mantra does not hold once committed.  Wouldn't work.  And if the person you want commit to you and you only doesn't want to at that point in time then make your own decision.  But remember that sometimes, life's too short......

My thoughts.

Best Wishes,

Paul

[Jazzyclassy]

Serebro and Jazzy, here's a few questions for you two young ladies. If a man wrote to you and said he's willing to commit only to you before ever seeing you in the flesh, do you believe him and think it's romantic? Do you think he's lying? Or do you think he's insane for falling in love with a photo?

If a guy writes to you, is honest and says he wrote to a few ladies and is visiting everbody he wrote to as friends and would like to visit you only as a friend, would you turn down the opportunity to meet? Assuming you had time, would you go on the date with your new foreign friend with no strings attached? If you do go on a date and before he leaves for home, he sits you down holding your hand gently, looks you in the eyes and says he felt that you are a wonderful woman in every way he could think of and enjoyed his time with you and wants to make a return trip to have more serious relations and would dedicate himself to you if you would dedicate yourself to him. Would you turn him down?

My fiancee knew I wrote to many women and she feels honored that I chose her over many others. The fact I had other opportunities in my life made me more valuable as a man. Women tend to think if a man doesn't have many choices in women, there's something wrong with him.

Well of course maybe I would not refuse an opportunity to meet , but I would not expect anything from that meeting and would certainly  not putting the efforts to be liked by him or something would not be showing my initiative at all

You see Billie some women are like your fiancee who needs a guy to be wanted by many women , only then they value him , well why not that is their own phylosophy ,that is how they are many women are like that

I am not like that  am glad that my boy wrote only to me and visited only me  and became my husband if he was writing to many women and meeting many women on one trip , he would not be the one I love,  am not attracted to the guys who are like cherrishing their self esteem  saying "Look not only you like me there are crowd of women who are ready to jump on top of me , so be honoured I 've chosen you ",- I am sorry such type of men can stay far far away from me and they always stayed ! I am very happy about that:)  cos I've always knew how I wanted my man to be, yes it is different from what many people got used to observe. So what people are all different, the guy who is liked by many women is not my sorta guy.For sure!!!!!!!!