Older and Divorced and has kid(s) - Question for the Ladies

[Blues Fairy]

Some 10+ years ago I asked my then-boyfriend, a Russian guy from a family of college professors, if he would take me with another man's chind.  Hell no, he said, and he was madly in love with me at that time.  I figured that it was some kind of family cult of blood descendance speaking in him; no rational argumentation was offered. He would NOT raise other men's children, period.  All the stranger for the fact that his own father had raised a son from his mother's previous short marriage.  

Later my ex found himself a woman of no particular beauty or character, or special talents (his words not mine ), but who was very ready to have his children.  

I think Lily's observations about patriarchial mentality and primitivism are very close to the truth.  In such men's view, a direct descendant, a boy, is infinitely more precious than just some adopted child, especially a child from his woman's previous marriage.  Very ancient and tenacious mentality, and definitely not limited to Russia or Ukraine.

[Christian]

Even tougher question 

That seems to be rather not a Soviet approach, but, as you told, a deeply ingrained one. To me it looks like another echo of patriarchality, where parents have a sort of power over their children. A Soviet mentality would rather deny the family ties and traditions, if they are not in line with Bolshevism.

I agree.  But we both are still left hanging with the question, 'From whence such a psychological tendency?'

I have some ideas but I'm already under censure.

Christian

[Christian]

Who says she is pregnant?!


No, I want to have a child badly, but the process of finding my man can take a lot of time and efforts, so I mentioned in the office that I wanted to have a child and to continue my search, people started persuading me that there would not be men ready to marry me with a child...

Yes, one will love you.  But let the child be the result of your love for one another and not a mere product of deputy.  "The fruit of the womb is His reward."
2.5 kids still amazes me?!

Christian

[Makkin]

Miss Silver,

  Please listen to the wise people here and wait to have children after you have found the love of your life. Too difficult for the CHILD in many cases like this and who cares about YOURSELF when you are a parent right?

Makkin

[BillyB]

No, I want to have a child badly, but the process of finding my man can take a lot of time and efforts, so I mentioned in the office that I wanted to have a child and to continue my search,

Serebro, you are one of the ladies who said you're a WOVO woman and will dump instantly WMVM men becasuse there are many sex tourists in the WMVM catagory but it almost seems you are willing to have sex with a man you don't love or want to marry to obtain a child while you continue your search for a good man. In reality, you are not WOVO and capable of using men for sex to achieve your needs as sex tourists are doing with RW to fulfill their needs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Lily]

I agree.  But we both are still left hanging with the question, 'From whence such a psychological tendency?'

I have some ideas but I'm already under censure.

Christian

Do you mean where Russian patriarchalism came from? Well, it seems to be a historical mentality of the nation.

[wxman]

Before we criticize Serebro and assume that she is going to have sex with different men to have a child, there are medical ways to have a child too. She could get artificially inseminated.  We should not be critical of this very personal choice she will make. She is a smart women who will be a great mother. In my book, that's a great combination. 

[Mir]

BillyB

but it almost seems you are willing to have sex with a man you don't love or want to marry to obtain a child while you continue your search for a good man. In reality, you are not WOVO and capable of using men for sex to achieve your needs as sex tourists are doing with RW to fulfill their needs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Where has she said that she will have sex with a man to get pregnant?

[Lily]

I did some googling on what RM say on the topic on Russian fora. Here is what I read:

'Her kid has his or her own biological father, and it is not I. That man is going to haunt me for the rest of my life with the woman'.

'Mother and kid make a strong biological unit. I don't belong to this unit. Instead I 'd feel like I am easily replaceable if I don't belong to the unit'.

'If I marry a woman with kids, I will feel like her primary intention is to use me to solve her problems. I don't like it to feel like I am a sort of problems solving tool'.

A woman says, ' There is nothing worse than a stepfather. No matter how much a man loves me, he 'd never be able to love my kid as he 'd love his own kid'.

A woman says, 'If I 'd be a single mom, I would look for a single dad. The man in a parent situation that is similar to mine'.

'It is a noble step to marry a woman with kid. But a man in love may not be able to see future problems. When your own child will be born, in any case you will love him more than a stepchild. Then the problems will start. Also, it is very sad to hear from a stepchild the words like 'you can not tell me what I should do, as you are not my father'.

An orthodox priester says, 'A kid is not an obstacle for a family creation. The main problem here is that a woman with kid will have problems finding a partner. In the family, a man has to assume responsibility not only for his future wife but also for the kid, for his life and upbringing. This is very much uneasy. Many men prefer it if her kid from another marriage would be somewhere in a remote location, so that her kid would not present a constant reminder of the fact that some time ago his wife was living with the other man and was not belonging to him. That is the main problem for a woman with kid who tries to get married again.'
A woman argues that children are a blessing per se. The same priester replies, 'That's right, but can you imagine how true, devoted and noble a man's heart and soul should be in order to be able to understand it? Not in mere words but really. Not many men are able to feel it.' The woman agrees that a number of such men is close to nil.

'A woman should be the wife first, and mother second. Women seem to think differently. If one marries a mother with kid, he is committing a sort of sactifice.I don't understand why woman are angry with this point of view. Why they just don't show an example? Why they don't marry handicapped or ill men? Also, any normal woman does not belong to herself after she gave birth. She belongs to her kid, he is her flesh, blood, her hopes and aspirations are now in the kid. There is no place for a man in her heart anymore. A man interests her only insofar he can provide for her and her kid. The woman can have lots of men, they are not of such unique value for her as her kid is. I was growing up without father, my mom was married several times, so I know the role of those men in her life. I would not want to be walking in their shoes...'

I also found many posts saying that her situation does not matter for men, but for the sake of the topic I just show the reasons against marrying a mother.

[I/O]

No, I want to have a child badly, but the process of finding my man can take a lot of time and efforts, so I mentioned in the office that I wanted to have a child and to continue my search,

The childish obsession with instant gratification is one of the many evils of the modern world with little or no thought to the real consequences. Babies with babies (AKA Spoiled Brats)......ya see 'em on the street every day.

Serebro: Do yourself a huge favour, buy a doll and a dong and continue your search. Much easier to explain to prince charmarse when he turns up........if.........

I/O

[Serebro]

Serebro,

May I be the first to recommend against having a child now while searching for a good man.  You may have a small problem when you explain to this good man how you have decided to have this child.  Or worse yet, you could simply lie to this man for the rest of your life and live with the fact that you continue to lie to a good man because you wanted to have children NOW.

  Will you lose a good man because you decided to have a child with some random Russian man now?  Seems silly and shortsighted to me.  

Well, it's interesting to observe the results of 2 threads... on the one side most men from my poll mentioned that having a child gives a woman more maturity and wisedom and makes her more attractive in the men's eyes..

at in this thread a small Serebro's remark resulted in a big discussion on that how silly and unpractical it's to have a child with a RM and then to find Mr Right... so in which point exactly I will become mature and wise of a silly and shortshighted?!
the remark given  by me in the office was rather subconcsious...when I was looking out of the window...dreaming and thinking about something.. maybe about the amount of love and energy I have inside and there's noone to give all these things to...
and there's noone who'd appreciate it.
I have already had big love  with the person who never belived in my feelings after many years of search and who was always suspicious, told lie to me and at the end he betrayed me.... and he was a member of this forum...
So, Billy , in fact I am a one-man woman...and I have never written about WMVM, I have never written about having sex with many foreign/russian men....I meet online...

In fact when I thought about having a child I thought about the child as about the person who is already born and is with me now and it was interesting to see that so many people here had different images in their had concerning THE PROCESS OF MAKING THE CHILD... so it was fun to read about the ideas
-timothe had an image of me sleeping with drunk Russian men
-BillyB imagines me having sex with many foreign men who come to visit me on WOVO.
-Mir(oh, I know he is a doctor and a very good one) thought about the bank of sperm.
the most surprising remark came from I/O who has just married a RW with a child, because she "is very mature"this is his remark

The childish obsession with instant gratification is one of the many evils of the modern world with little or no thought to the real consequences. Babies with babies (AKA Spoiled Brats)......ya see 'em on the street every day.

Serebro: Do yourself a huge favour, buy a doll and a dong and continue your search. Much easier to explain to prince charmarse when he turns up........if.........

I/O, thank you very much for the offer.would you prefer that little guy in your home turned out to be a doll?!

So what makes you think that I am different from your wife?!
I know she has never been married...and she has a child.. and the child isn't yours...
You have never met me in person... so why do you think that I don't have strengh enough to upbring a child...on the opposite, I am a very passionate person full of energy who doesn't know how to spend my it and who to bring all this love that I have to...
I am wasting my life and all that I have and ready to give on nothing.
So why not to have someone who is worth it.
He/she doesn't have to be something extraodinary...
But the person that I want and that I need to be with MUST have certain features concerning his personality which are very rare to find...he MUST be SPECIAL, I may never find him...the child doesn't have to be special...and it's easier to find him...
so why not?!


I wish I could spent my weekend with someone real, to make something good for him instead of sitting here after getting up in the morning and listening to the cold remarks of people like I/O who have never met me, seen me, spoken to me and thinking that they can judge me...

[Mir]

the child doesn't have to be special

But all children are special

[Serebro]

But all children are special

I agree, I meant he doesn't need to have any special personal qualities...

[I/O]

Sebrebro: Thought I was on "Ignore", but I see you've been peekin' again. The first point is your comment regarding my wife, she had an unplanned child with a man whom she was in love with and intending to marry. You are proposing the idea of utilising whomever to create a child deliberately for your own very selfish fulfilment, nothing more.

My wife's maturity has IMO little to do with her having a child, although it could have some input. I have never stated her child as being the main contributer to her maturity. It is very immature to attempt to put words in another's mouth. You, young lady are displaying an ever increasing immaturity as time goes along and it seems from your words that IS in fact coming from a sense of desperation.

Most men here don't object to children of another father, but most would tell you in their private moments, it is no easy undertaking at any level, be it practical or emotional. Another factor to consider is that many men here are on the wrong side of 40 and have been around the block a time or two. If you, in late 20's and had a child, were looking for someone, say in mid to late 30's who also didn't have children, you would find yourself pushing schit uphill, be it Russian man or Western man.

Your vague idea, be it, idea or plan is about as dumb as it comes. Reality check time.

I/O

[KenC]

Well, it's interesting to observe the results of 2 threads... on the one side most men from my poll mentioned that having a child gives a woman more maturity and wisedom and makes her more attractive in the men's eyes..

at in this thread a small Serebro's remark resulted in a big discussion on that how silly and unpractical it's to have a child with a RM and then to find Mr Right... so in which point exactly I will become mature and wise of a silly and shortshighted?!

Serebro,
You seem to have a couple of ideas twisted in your head here.  Consider this:
Giving birth does not make you mature and wise.
Having a child does not make you more attractive to single men, but less attractive to them.
To have a child to gain maturity and wisdom and make you more attractive to a potential suitor is silly and shortsighted.
KenC

[Serebro]

Sebrebro: Thought I was on "Ignore", but I see you've been peekin' again. The first point is your comment regarding my wife, she had an unplanned child with a man whom she was in love with and intending to marry. You are proposing the idea of utilising whomever to create a child deliberately for your own very selfish fulfilment, nothing more.
My wife's maturity has IMO little to do with her having a child, although it could have some input. I have never stated her child as being the main contributer to her maturity. It is very immature to attempt to put words in another's mouth. You, young lady are displaying an ever increasing immaturity as time goes along and it seems from your words that IS in fact coming from a sense of desperation.

Most men here don't object to children of another father, but most would tell you in their private moments, it is no easy undertaking at any level, be it practical or emotional. Another factor to consider is that many men here are on the wrong side of 40 and have been around the block a time or two. If you, in late 20's and had a child, were looking for someone, say in mid to late 30's who also didn't have children, you would find yourself pushing schit uphill, be it Russian man or Western man.

Your vague idea, be it, idea or plan is about as dumb as it comes. Reality check time.

I/O

I/O, I promised to ignore you after you answer my question.
You bragged about having a wife and a chil and I asked you to explain why you think that you will always have them and why you think that I have never had a husband and children, you haven't replied my question. I didn't ignore you. The only person who is in my iggy list is deccie and it's just because he knows why he is there.

If you were sure that I iggied you why did you write your message addressed to me to have a doll to play as I will never have a husband?

my wife, she had an unplanned child with a man whom she was in love with and intending to marry

We have thousands of girls like her here who get pregnant to make the man marry them. She didn't hear of condoms?!How about having a child from the man who married her already?!

why do you think that

You are proposing the idea of utilising whomever to create a child deliberately for your own very selfish fulfilment, nothing more.

It's not because I am selfish.
I have never mentioned the METHOD of having a child.
I could adopt a child. But the process will be quite difficult for me , I think.
I could have a child from someone I love and consider to be a very good person but he doesn't love me...
Giving someone lots of love and taking care of someone isn't a sign of selfishness for me...

it seems from your words that IS in fact coming from a sense of desperation.

so why is it a problem for you, even if it is so?! What do you know about my life?! What do you know about my state of health to judge me?!

Your vague idea, be it, idea or plan is about as dumb as it comes

thanks for being honest with the person who you don't even know.
I wish I could judge people these way, too.That would make it easier to survive...where i live

[Serebro]

Serebro,
You seem to have a couple of ideas twisted in your head here.  Consider this:
Giving birth does not make you mature and wise.
Having a child does not make you more attractive to single men, but less attractive to them.
To have a child to gain maturity and wisdom and make you more attractive to a potential suitor is silly and shortsighted.
KenC

Ok, according to your previous posts I am silly, short-sighted and immature no matter what I do or have, so let me be myself, let me show it to everyone:) Maybe there will be the man who will love me as I am.

PS:I don't know why it happened but I have never mentioned that having a child is my idea number 1 and my main problem at the moment.I only mentioned that it could be possible and that I want to have a child.As a fact.
so can we stop discussing my personal life and ways of having children and candidates for it now, please.
As soon as I get that desperate I will start a separate thread and will let you know:)

[Lily]

Dears, it seems to me that people start fighting in this thread 

Could you please be so kind to be some more reserved in getting personal?

[KenC]

Ok, according to your previous posts I am silly, short-sighted and immature no matter what I do or have, so let me be myself, let me show it to everyone:) Maybe there will be the man who will love me as I am.

PS:I don't know why it happened but I have never mentioned that having a child is my idea number 1 and my main problem at the moment.I only mentioned that it could be possible and that I want to have a child.As a fact.
so can we stop discussing my personal life and ways of having children and candidates for it now, please.
As soon as I get that desperate I will start a separate thread and will let you know:)

Serebro,
You and you alone are responsible for opeing the discussion of your personal life.
KenC

[William3rd]

Nice to see all the ladies responding in this thread. . . . .
Did you intend to include cross-dressers?

[Christian]

Do you mean where Russian patriarchalism came from? Well, it seems to be a historical mentality of the nation.

Lily,

Actually, I think that the common denominators that define maleness (including Patriarchalism) transends national boundaries and is an inate characteristic of the male.

However, historically speaking, I think and what I was fishing for was whether this Russian/Slavic mentality could be pinpointed as perhaps being reinforced from and through lets say Orthodoxy since it has so profoundly effected the Russian people for over one thousand years.

Christian

[Christian]

Before we criticize Serebro and assume that she is going to have sex with different men to have a child, there are medical ways to have a child too. She could get artificially inseminated.  We should not be critical of this very personal choice she will make. She is a smart women who will be a great mother. In my book, that's a great combination. 

Either way, if this is her only motivation, I still think it is dehumanizing and impersonal rather if not quite uncircumspect.  It is indicative IMHO of a feminist more than a Russian female.  Doubtless, one's value system and worldview come into play here and become self-evident.

Christian

[Christian]

I did some googling on what RM say on the topic on Russian fora. Here is what I read:

'Her kid has his or her own biological father, and it is not I. That man is going to haunt me for the rest of my life with the woman'.

'Mother and kid make a strong biological unit. I don't belong to this unit. Instead I 'd feel like I am easily replaceable if I don't belong to the unit'.

'If I marry a woman with kids, I will feel like her primary intention is to use me to solve her problems. I don't like it to feel like I am a sort of problems solving tool'.

A woman says, ' There is nothing worse than a stepfather. No matter how much a man loves me, he 'd never be able to love my kid as he 'd love his own kid'.

A woman says, 'If I 'd be a single mom, I would look for a single dad. The man in a parent situation that is similar to mine'.

'It is a noble step to marry a woman with kid. But a man in love may not be able to see future problems. When your own child will be born, in any case you will love him more than a stepchild. Then the problems will start. Also, it is very sad to hear from a stepchild the words like 'you can not tell me what I should do, as you are not my father'.

An orthodox priester says, 'A kid is not an obstacle for a family creation. The main problem here is that a woman with kid will have problems finding a partner. In the family, a man has to assume responsibility not only for his future wife but also for the kid, for his life and upbringing. This is very much uneasy. Many men prefer it if her kid from another marriage would be somewhere in a remote location, so that her kid would not present a constant reminder of the fact that some time ago his wife was living with the other man and was not belonging to him. That is the main problem for a woman with kid who tries to get married again.'
A woman argues that children are a blessing per se. The same priester replies, 'That's right, but can you imagine how true, devoted and noble a man's heart and soul should be in order to be able to understand it? Not in mere words but really. Not many men are able to feel it.' The woman agrees that a number of such men is close to nil.

'A woman should be the wife first, and mother second. Women seem to think differently. If one marries a mother with kid, he is committing a sort of sactifice.I don't understand why woman are angry with this point of view. Why they just don't show an example? Why they don't marry handicapped or ill men? Also, any normal woman does not belong to herself after she gave birth. She belongs to her kid, he is her flesh, blood, her hopes and aspirations are now in the kid. There is no place for a man in her heart anymore. A man interests her only insofar he can provide for her and her kid. The woman can have lots of men, they are not of such unique value for her as her kid is. I was growing up without father, my mom was married several times, so I know the role of those men in her life. I would not want to be walking in their shoes...'

I also found many posts saying that her situation does not matter for men, but for the sake of the topic I just show the reasons against marrying a mother.

Lily,

Here I think the source of the opinion is important to take into account.  The male who said that the child would only serve to remind of the other fellow while making a valid point views IMHO the child as the offspring of something unwanted - even as a consequence of rape.  Doubtless, he is jealous, but the fact that the child is part of her as well is not admitted as of any consequence in his thinking.  If ine cannot handle the reality, then keep looking elsewhere.

Christian

[Christian]

The childish obsession with instant gratification is one of the many evils of the modern world with little or no thought to the real consequences. Babies with babies (AKA Spoiled Brats)......ya see 'em on the street every day.

Serebro: Do yourself a huge favour, buy a doll and a dong and continue your search. Much easier to explain to prince charmarse when he turns up........if.........

I/O

This is a good point for you to take to heart Serebro, although instead of a doll get a 5lb. bag of sugar and carry it around with you day-in and day-out, from sun up to sunset till bedtime everyday, for a real child ain't going to go away.

Christian

[Christian]

Ok, according to your previous posts I am silly, short-sighted and immature no matter what I do or have, so let me be myself, let me show it to everyone:) Maybe there will be the man who will love me as I am.

PS:I don't know why it happened but I have never mentioned that having a child is my idea number 1 and my main problem at the moment.I only mentioned that it could be possible and that I want to have a child.As a fact.
so can we stop discussing my personal life and ways of having children and candidates for it now, please.
As soon as I get that desperate I will start a separate thread and will let you know:)

Thanks for the qualifying statements.  I don't think you'll ever have to start that other thread.

Christian