Child in England.

[Turboguy]

Somewhat off topic but it is nice with the Thanksgiving holiday about to be celebrated to see the warm feelings and concern for children and families.   I think even though we are looking at different sides of the same subject that everyones heart is in the right place.   We may disagree about many things but we all seem to agree that children are special and we want them to be part of our life. 

I think one of the sad parts of modern life is that when to people who were once friends and lovers divorce the bitter feelings that come to the surface are often so harmful to both the former spouse and the children and I think wanting to protect against potential problems is a wise thing.   I can't see it as any worse than prenups, wills and insurance. 

I have read here many times that RW have fierce loyalty and love of their children so should we not expect them to be watchful even of children that are but a gleam in their eye and a dream for their future.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Well, it is nice to talk about equal rights of both husband and wife, men and women, and more over about children's rights. But how and why will it be better for CHILDREN to go back to Russia and live there? How is it better? I say no matter how bad a woman feels in the US after her divorce she has to stay here because of her children, because of a much better life and future for them HERE, in the US! If a woman wants to have rights she should definitely stay in the US, what rights does she have in Russia or Ukraine?

Ex-pats vs. Immigrants...we know there are more immigrants than ex-pats.. Why is it only one couple out of 100 (or maybe more) decides to live in the US instead of him moving to her? And one of the reasons a woman wants to marry a foreigner is either to give a better life for her already existing kids or her future children.

yes, a woman should think about these things ahead and she better be ready to cut it off with Russia than not BECAUSE of her kids, because it is just a logical and smart choice, i think.  Why marry a foreigner if you don't want to stay in his country, don't know the language, can't work or hate the country??? 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Yes, but I am one of those that go burnt in the process.

It sounds like you haven't come to terms with it yet.


Thomas

[Misha]

It sounds like you haven't come to terms with it yet.


Thomas

How do you come to terms with it exactly? Let's put it this way, I would not want someone else to make the same mistake that I did.

[pk-uk]

  Too many divorced parents forget to think about what is best for the children and only argue over their own "rights".

Absolutely, Scott.  My own experience in counselling & support would certainly support this.

PK

[BillyB]

If a woman wants to have rights she should definitely stay in the US, what rights does she have in Russia or Ukraine?

Women do have more rights in America than the FSU. FSU media saying FSU women loses their rights to their children in the event of a divorce is propaganda.

[Ranetka]

Women do have more rights in America than the FSU. FSU media saying FSU women loses their rights to their children in the event of a divorce is propaganda.

I do not know about US, but there was a case a few years ago when a husband literally stole the child from his Russian ex, there was a long legal battle, eventually the child was given to foster's family, because father could not look after her properly, but the mother never was given even an access to the child. The country - France.

By the way, again, do not know about US, but in the UK, for example decision of Russian court has no legal law (and vice versa), therefore father may easily not to pay child support to his ex living in Russia. I personally know of the situation where a woman does not receive any money as there is no possibility to force decision of russian court on UK territory and she can not afford the process in the UK...(Mean going there or get a solicitor).

[Misha]

I do not know about US, but there was a case a few years ago when a husband literally stole the child from his Russian ex, there was a long legal battle, eventually the child was given to foster's family, because father could not look after her properly, but the mother never was given even an access to the child. The country - France.

By the way, again, do not know about US, but in the UK, for example decision of Russian court has no legal law (and vice versa), therefore father may easily not to pay child support to his ex living in Russia. I personally know of the situation where a woman does not receive any money as there is no possibility to force decision of russian court on UK territory and she can not afford the process in the UK...(Mean going there or get a solicitor).

I cannot speak about England or the United States, but if a woman is a permanent resident in Canada (i.e. a landed immigrant) she has all the same rights as a Canadian citizen and she can sue for child support. If successful, the man must pay child support and it does not matter where the mother lives.

[BillyB]

Ranetka,

A woman in America can be on drugs occasioinally and still get rights to keep her child the majority of the time. Only when she's a total screw up like Britney Spears repeating behavior that's devastating to the kids will the courts award the children to the father.

[catzenmouse]

I cannot speak about England or the United States, but if a woman is a permanent resident in Canada (i.e. a landed immigrant) she has all the same rights as a Canadian citizen and she can sue for child support. If successful, the man must pay child support and it does not matter where the mother lives.

Unless the laws have changed since I lived there a landed immigrant does not have exactly the same rights as a Canadian citizen. Mostly the same but there are some differences.

[Misha]

Unless the laws have changed since I lived there a landed immigrant does not have exactly the same rights as a Canadian citizen. Mostly the same but there are some differences.

They can't vote and they can't get a Canadian passport and they must live in Canada for 6 months out of every year before they can apply for citizenship. Most other things are pretty much the same for citizens and permanent residents.

Also, unlike the United States, if you sponsor your spouse, she is granted permanent residency immediately. There is no two-year period that she has to stay married to you. Unless she arrives in the country and leaves you at the airport, she is pretty much free to leave you at any point after that without any real risk of losing her status. The husband, however, will nonetheless be financially responsible for her for 3-years as he signed a contract with the federal government to be her sponsor. If she applies for social assistance, the government will seek to collect the funds they pay out to her from the husband. If you have a child together and she gets custody (more than likely as the courts tend to be biased in giving custody to mothers), then the father will have to pay child support.

[catzenmouse]

That's pretty much how I remembered it. Except that I could vote in local elections but not federal ones and I could not join any branch of the military.

Another case of a broad sweeping statement not really being all that broad or all that sweeping I guess.  :noidea:

[Misha]

That's pretty much how I remembered it. Except that I could vote in local elections but not federal ones and I could not join any branch of the military.

Another case of a broad sweeping statement not really being all that broad or all that sweeping I guess.  :noidea:

Yes, but when it comes to custody and child support, the differences listed above do not matter. No judge will confer custody to someone solely on the fact that one can vote and the other cannot.

[catzenmouse]

Didn't say that they did matter. Just calling you on your "she has all the same rights as a Canadian citizen" comment because it is not true. Just because your statement contains only a "little BS" does not make it any less "BS".

FWIW

[Misha]

Didn't say that they did matter. Just calling you on your "she has all the same rights as a Canadian citizen" comment because it is not true. Just because your statement contains only a "little BS" does not make it any less "BS".

FWIW

Sorry, I was referring to her parental rights and thought it was clear from the context.

[catzenmouse]

No worries. It was clear to me but we have also seen a lot of people come around who grab at a statement like that and clutch it like a life saver to make their point.

If you don't mind my asking, where in the "Great White North" do you live? I lived in Alta and NS for 14 years collectively.

Ken

[Misha]

No worries. It was clear to me but we have also seen a lot of people come around who grab at a statement like that and clutch it like a life saver to make their point.

If you don't mind my asking, where in the "Great White North" do you live? I lived in Alta and NS for 14 years collectively.

Ken

Thanks, eh! I live on the other side of the Rockies in British Columbia. It has been interesting learning more about how immigration works in other countries.

[Ranetka]

I cannot speak about England or the United States, but if a woman is a permanent resident in Canada (i.e. a landed immigrant) she has all the same rights as a Canadian citizen and she can sue for child support. If successful, the man must pay child support and it does not matter where the mother lives.

the same in the UK. The woman I am talking about was not a permanent resident (married less than two years), had to come back to Russia. She still has a right to sue him, but she is not qualified for legal aid (as she is not a resident), so she can not afford use British court and Russian court has no jurisdiction in the UK.

[catzenmouse]

Thanks, eh! I live on the other side of the Rockies in British Columbia. It has been interesting learning more about how immigration works in other countries.

I loved going to to BC! Had some good friends in the Okanagon <sp> Valley. What a gorgeous place!!! Damned near married a girl from Vancouver. She was Croatian which might just have been what started me on this path. Need to send her a thank you card I guess. Almost 3 years now married to the best little lady in the world.

Ken

P.S. Don't suppose I could get you to send me some beer? Stuff they make in this country is rather lame...

[Misha]

the same in the UK. The woman I am talking about was not a permanent resident (married less than two years), had to come back to Russia. She still have a rights to sue him, but she is not qualified for legal aid (as she is not a resident), so she can not afford use British court and Russian court has no jurisdiction in the UK.

In Canada, most people sponsor their spouses before they arrive in the country: it is quite difficult for your future spouse to come to Canada from Russia or the FSU if they are young and single. Unlike other countries, Canada does not offer any "fiancee visas" and most women marrying Canadians from the FSU have to be sponsored first and arrive as permanent residents. She is not obliged to stay with her husband for any set period before she can leave him. The only case that I heard of a woman's permanent residence status being taken away was a case involving a woman from India dumping her husband at the airport just as she arrived and passed through customs and immigration. In this case it was so flagrant that she had married him simply to get into the country. If this woman had even stayed a few days with her husband, she would likely have been able to stay in the country as a permanent resident, simply arguing that she arrived in good faith and the marriage broke down in spite of her best efforts.

[Mir]

By the way, again, do not know about US, but in the UK, for example decision of Russian court has no legal law (and vice versa), therefore father may easily not to pay child support to his ex living in Russia. I personally know of the situation where a woman does not receive any money as there is no possibility to force decision of russian court on UK territory and she can not afford the process in the UK...(Mean going there or get a solicitor).

Do you know how much child support is expected in Russia? I know it is minimal in Ukraine.
If a woman marries a man in UK and then divorces and relocates to Russia then the children are entitled to child support.If the father does not pay then she can take him to court. If she cannot afford this then she can apply for legal aid where the expenses of the solicitors etc. are paid by the state (while the father has to pay from his pocket). So maybe your friend can think about that. I am not sure if she can do this if she is not a UK citizen.

[I/O]

I/O: Using your logic, any relationship I would ever have must be doomed

That may well be the case, only years later will you know the answer.

I have nothing against prenups as such other than in my country if one is to be worth the paper it is written on, it will cost more to do that than the net worth of the assets it is aiming to protect in very many cases. My concern was/is not the documentation factor but the fear factor created in the woman which has led her to even raise (Even if in jest) the question of where her rights stand depending on where a child is born.

Hi Tech, you stated you didn't ask for a commentary on your relationship but how often do we see when people are told what they don't want to hear, they say exactly the same thing, I didn't ask for this information. The reality is that your question and the strength of your relationship are inextricably linked. This is a gathering of people with broadly based opinions on a range of these areas and one of the things I admire about this place is that people will look beyond the "Stated" issue and look for the "Drivers". That suggests a "Thinking Person's" gathering. Such I admire and if I did not I would leave.

I/O

[Turboguy]

Child support is pretty automatic here but I can't say I think it would be the case if the courts did not enforce it so well.   It seems like most everyone who works in the production part of my business has a court order from Domestic Relations to have child support deducted from their pay and I can't say even one of them would pay it under other circumstances. 

I/O, I can't say I agree about the cost of a prenup being more than the assets someone is protecting.  One of the biggest snags I see is that even if both want a prenup and both want to be fair when you get into all the legal double talk it can get pretty scary for a RW who does not understand legal terms and our ways of doing things here.

[Ranetka]

Do you know how much child support is expected in Russia? I know it is minimal in Ukraine.
If a woman marries a man in UK and then divorces and relocates to Russia then the children are entitled to child support.If the father does not pay then she can take him to court. If she cannot afford this then she can apply for legal aid where the expenses of the solicitors etc. are paid by the state (while the father has to pay from his pocket). So maybe your friend can think about that. I am not sure if she can do this if she is not a UK citizen.

In Russia child support by law is 25% of net wages for one child, 33% for two kids and 50% for three or more.
She is not entitled to legal aid as FLR (further leave to remain - first two years spouse visa) is "no support of public funds" (forgot how it is sound exactly), legal aid is a public fund.
Russian court has no jurisdiction in the UK,the decision of Russian court can not be enforced, imagine British bailiffs receiving a paper from Russian court, that is a laugh.
She needs to sue him in the UK I think which she can not afford.
Also from what I heard (do not know for sure) alimony itself are not that big, my friend pays, I think £25 a months (just for a kid), and how much the process would cost? does not worth it.

[Misha]

In Russia child support by law is 25% of net wages for one child, 33% for two kids and 50% for three or more.
She is not entitled to legal aid as FLR (further leave to remain - first two years spouse visa) is "no support of public funds" (forgot how it is sound exactly), legal aid is a public fund.
Russian court has no jurisdiction in the UK,the decision of Russian court can not be enforced, imagine British bailiffs receiving a paper from Russian court, that is a laugh.
She needs to sue him in the UK I think which she can not afford.
Also from what I heard (do not know for sure) alimony itself are not that big, my friend pays, I think £25 a months (just for a kid), and how much the process would cost? does not worth it.

In Canada, there are federal and provincial guidelines at to how much child support should be paid. You can even look it up online: http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/ps/sup/lookup/index.asp. Someone living in Ontario earning $50,000 per year would pay, for example, $462 per month. The more that is earned, the more you pay.