Is this a good idea?

[JamesTee]

I cannot get a consensus from these boards if a tour is right for me, so I thought of making up my own private tour. I thought I would book my own flight and apartment or hotel through an agency, and then work with a reputable agency to meet only the women they represent that I am interetesed in, but only for short money-saving dates. I want to hire an interpreter and hit the bars, discos, restaurants and beaches and see what happens. If you have taken a tour lately, please post and tell me your thoughts on the RW situation now, either in Ukraine or Russia. Did you have problems meeting genuinely single women under 30? Or under 25? I'm a young-looking 39 (and still attractive to teen girls -I'm a teacher) so I would be hunting girls about 20-25. My only phobia is that these cities are like singles bars in the USA -packed with women, but none of them single. Which country do I need an invitation for a tourist visa?

[Jumper]

Its going to be hard to get a consensus,,
on what to do or how to do it..

but going on your own and renting a flat (forget the hotels)
writing a bi tfirst,,(less than 3 months)
or simply meeting women from one ,or several , agencies,
and  meeting women when you can in public,,

are not bad ideas..
and will likely get more votes of confidence from the crowd here,
 than *tours* in general.

are there plenty of actually single women in the FSU?
yes.no doubt at all.

And yes many of the dating sites have plenty of truly single women.

Of course there are some women listed that are not sincere in thier intentions ,and thier are some bad agencies as well.
be wary and careful.

out in the general public though, you should  *expect* attractive women to be involved.
as of course they are married, have boyfriends,
 or have daily offers this is true for attractive people in general in any country,
 it isnt any different in any certain part of the world?

The difference "there" is you may  have an edge IF you are seriuos in intentions of marriage.
attractive RW do not lack in men vying for thier attentions.
Most never consider leaving thier country or joining a marriage agency.

So do not expect great results in that way..
as even if you met someone.. nice, single and interersted,, they may never have thought about the prospect of relocation at all.

Although it is a decent idea to give it a shot while there!
why not afterall? some have been lucky at that
but i certainly would not base a trip around that style of random meetings in public..

As far as other things you could do? 

you could run a local ad there in a city you are interested in..
I dont think thats ever a bad idea,several folks on here could help you do so.

you will likely take some flack for your age group choices..
its your choice,but when asking for advice here
age thing is debated endlessly,,
but almost all sides agree it sbest to at least start your sewarch criteria within a ten year range..
you are looking at 19 to 14 year  age gap as your initial criteria.
you will be questioned as to why.by mor efolks than me..lol
and no it doesnt matter that you are a young looking 39,
 whom teen girls swoon over..
as you probably dont want to marry a 19 yo teen girl afterall?
and the reasions why not ,
are just as valid with "most" 20 yo's

looking for an age group thats still in college , is going to catch more flack ,than just the actual age gap itself..

the general view is simply that a college age girl is often not ready for marriage, much less a cross cultutral , long distance relationship leading to
relocation to a alian culture and language,  and marriage..
and if she is , its probably to someone in her own decade.

there are plenty of exceptions..!!!!!

its just that actually *starting out *
with that critria, would b eheavily advised against..
and there is no real valid reason to exclude a 26 to 35 year olds,???? at your age ?

and no i'm not throwing stones ,as there's a 14 year age gap in my marriage afterall

One cultural thing to keep in mind,
its somewhat difficult for a single mother in the FSU to remarry..

So there are a lot of intelligent ,attractive single mothers ,,
who would diffenantly consider a western man that could  accept her child as his own.

Good luck, and read all you can ......

[Simoni]

Overall, while some points are good, no-- not a good idea.

The part that troubles me most is...
"hit the bars, discos, restaurants and beaches and see what happens"

For you see, most fsu women ARE NOT interested in American men.  They don't speak the language, they don't want to leave their native country, and they have heard bad things about Americans.  The girls who SEEM interested in you at a bar may drug you and take your money.

So--I'd concentrate on the other part of your post...
"work with a reputable agency to meet only the women they represent that I am interested in, but only for short money-saving dates."

That's the best option, IMHO.  Girls listed with an agency are interested in pursuing a foreign relationship.  Plus, you can preselect whom you want to date, and exclude girls who don't speak English.

The big red flag in your post to me was:
"I'm a young-looking 39 (and still attractive to teen girls -I'm a teacher)"

Men who say they look younger than they are usually are poor at seeing reality...

And seeing reality is VERY important in this venture.  Very important.


Good luck.

[JamesTee]

Good advice so far. I'll stick with the agencies. Any suggestions? and as for..."Men who say they look younger than they are usually are poor at seeing reality..." People can't believe I'm 39. Really. I pass for 29 easily. I'm just lucky, that's all. I just hope I don't get a lot of "advice" to date-women-my-own-age coming from dried up old prunes married to 25 year olds.

[BillyB]

The girls who SEEM interested in you at a bar may drug you and take your money.

Worse yet, those girls may drug you and then rape you. It is our duty to warn and protect James from these acts of crime!

James, unless you're going to post a photo of yourself, nobody is going to believe you that you look as you say you look. If you like younger women period, that would be a more honest answer than saying you look younger so that's why you need to search younger women.

Most of those teen girls who give you special attention are doing it because you're in a position of authority being a teacher. If you were just another guy on the street, they may not even look at you twice.

85% of the men in this forum who is married or engaged has women 10 years or more younger than themselves. You're not the only one who thinks youth in women is beautiful. But remember, youth doesn't last forever and you need find something about a woman that you can respect and love forever.

[ScottinCrimea]

James, you can date whatever age you want, but just be sure you are fully aware of the pros and cons of your choice.  There's a lot more to a wife than that she is young and looks good on your arm.  That you posted the age range desired as your first concern is sure to raise the eyebrows of the experienced ones here.  the other eyebrow raiser is that you say you look younger than you are.  Probably 80% of the new posters here say the same thing and truth be told, it doesn't really matter.  Why not be proud to be 39?

I have nothing to offer about what is the best option for you to meet single women because I didn't go any of the routes that you are looking at to find my wife.  What I've learned from reading this board, though is that there are as many options as there are members here.  It all depends on what works for you and your personality and style.  Just keep in mind that as much as you think you know about this process and life with a FSUW, there's a lot more you can learn.  Comments like you make in your last post don't suggest that you have much respect for those here or are open to learning more than method.

By the way, my wife is 15 years younger than I am, but she's not a starry eyed teen and she's not a disco hopping 20 something.  She's already fully grown and I know that the person I am married to now will be the same person 5 or even 30 years from now.

[catzenmouse]

I just hope I don't get a lot of "advice" to date-women-my-own-age coming from dried up old prunes married to 25 year olds.

With that one statement you have shown exactly who you are. I guess fantasizing about your students has become old news now so you want to jump right out there and get that smoking hot teen that you've been drooling over huh?

This "dried up old prune" thinks you are a bottom feeder who ain't worth the effort to "school" on how stupid your comment is.

Have yourself a wonderful day,
 Ken

[JamesTee]

Well, I do appreciate the sincere advice given so far, but I don't want advice from people who marry really young women, act like it's a burden, and THEN TELL ME NOT TO DO THAT even though they are happy. I admit I want a really young one and won't bother looking at someone over 30. I hate the I-wasn't-looking-for-someone-that-young-but-we-fell-in-love-and-it-worked-out stuff.  And it would make no sense for me to marry an "older" woman, say over 30, when I can get that real young one. If someone over 50 can attract a 25 year old, why not someone 39? I'm careful with the scammers. I'm not arguing and I'm not arrogant, but just looking for real advice and not looking to be attacked.

[JamesTee]

Ken, you don't even know me. Are you jealous, grandpap?

[BillyB]

James, catching a young hottie is one thing, keeping her is another. She needs to have great respect for you as a man. Since age and youth is not on your side, you need to have something special about you that attracts and keeps her attention. Hopefully it's not your wallet.

As far as agency tours go, the only one I've heard that gets good reviews is Jack's tour at First Dream. The other tours are not worth the money according to many men. The gold digging sharks are aggressive in getting your attention and once you're hooked, they suggest you leave the social with them and they take you out for a night on the town which includes expensive dinners and shopping for the lady.

[catzenmouse]

Ken, you don't even know me. Are you jealous, grandpap?

Yup JamesTeeny, you caught me. You're all I ever dreamed of being.

Ever had a passport bucky? Ever been overseas? Know any Russians? More likely just chasing your panties around.

Know you? Why the hell would I want to know you? You come on here like King Shit on a shingle and propose to tell us how you "don't want to hear that" and " you don't want to hear this". Poor little baby! If you don't want to hear reality then go on back to your yearbooks and your magazines.

[ScottinCrimea]

Hate to break it to you, James, but even if you do look 10 years younger, a teacher's salary isn't gonna get you what you're hoping for.  You can't afford to take the proper time and number of visits to find a young hottie who will care about you for the right reasons and the chance is high that even if you do convince one to come here, she will jump at any better offer.  If the attitude of your posts is any reflection, you don't have what it takes to deal with a RW.  Do you even know anything about them other than that they are beautiful?

[Jumper]

I just hope I don't get a lot of "advice" to date-women-my-own-age coming from dried up old prunes married to 25 year olds.

well i did warn you? .. lol

but you know it begs to question "why" your criteria is so limited?

While i am married to a RW quite a bit younger than me.
it is the outside edge of the  age range i would consider,(was considering)
 and i was certainly looking, and meeting , closer to my age ,and  older.
(yes i know you hate to hear that)

and to clarify..  I live a pretty young lifestyle, and not a dried up old prune..LOL
but back then (6 years or longer ago..) i would diffinantly been open to anyone
interesting from 25 to 40.(i was younger ,than you are now)
and not younger..

if i had set criteria of 20 to 24, i would have had no problems at all in meeting single attractive ladies..as i had plenty in those age ranges to meet !!!
even when specifically avoiding them,and still  I met plenty in that range..even in just random meeting in public.... this isnt bragging at all..hope its not taken that way.
 It's to give you a glimpse of how to better use your time on the ground in the FSU,
to find someone sincere.

women in the 25 to 35 range (or 24 to 30 , if you wan tto keep it younger by a bit)
are going to be more seriuos and will increase your odds of meeting someone sincere about marriage and relocation.

this is a generality, there are exceptions,,
but to increase your odds thats a very easy way to do so right off the bat.
IMHO.


if you intentionally limit your range to 20 to 24 ,
you are intentionally looking in an age
range that are ,YES IN GENERAL,
 not as mature, are far more likely to be simply testing the waters, and not serious, or to simply be dating for fun..who could blame them? afterall why not ? they are simply broadening thier dating pool like men *here* are..?
(and yes my wife was one of those testing the waters, wasn't all that seriuos, and just signed up on a whim because her neighbor ran an agency)

but i do believe it limits your odds of success..

This is  from someone who has dated both age ranges.. ..here and there.
and i hate generalities,but thats all we can deal with here in giving general advice?


and i do wish you luck in your venture..!!

have fun.!!!!

. there are plenty of truly single women,,
dont get too paranoid , nor too relaxed,
as nothing in the FSU is as it seems..
and try to keep it as close to dating at home as humanly possible..

and mostly just go! and  get your feet wet,,
 

And it would make no sense for me to marry an "older" woman, say over 30
  

if she was well educated,,very intelligent,fun ,and beautiful at 31-
 it would make no sense..?
thats the part we all are having trouble following..
as there are numerous single RW that fit that description that would be very serious about marriage..

 i want to add, i dont mean to attack you at all..
was just trying to advise you towards an area of more likelyhood of success.

there are tons of intelligent, beautiful women 25 to 30 for example,
its simply odd to exclude them? but it is your choice..

wether you realize it or not,,anyone with  real time there,,
will tell you that sticking to your criteria is  limiting..
so prepare accordingly.

you did ask if it was a good idea..
that part isnt nessarily a good one (by most folks experience) unless you extend it to 21 to 31...at least..
you did ask,,so dont shoot the messengers..??
 

[Gator]

James,

You are getting off on the wrong foot.  I will try one time to be helpful.

You seem impetuous yet unsure (based on your other thread).  For sure, cheap ("short money-saving dates").  You are disrespectful.  And frankly, I question your sense of reality and perhaps your intelligence if you believe your teenage students think you are hot.  Please read again what Billy wrote:

Most of those teen girls who give you special attention are doing it because you're in a position of authority being a teacher.

You do not yet have a good foundation to succeed at this endeavor.  So you need to educate yourself much more in the basics.  Read the archives after starting with the FAQs and Stickies.

You can not say that you have read the FAQs or searched the archives if you are asking simple questions such as which countries require a visa before arriving (answer - Ukraine).

Here are a couple of interesting threads that relate to your questions:

With regard to dating "kids", which seems to be your fantasy, please read:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5725.0

If you did a tour (something I think unnecessary if you enjoy an immersion in foreign cultures, and are adventurous and self-reliant), Jack Bragg's First dream Tour is probably the best.  This is a good discussion, and while it involves a man much older than you, he was attracted to women of about the same age that you prefer:  

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2698.0


Regarding a man being 40 and claiming to look 28 (two up on you):

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5858.0

For discos, search on the member "Thor" who is a big fan of them and married a real beauty.

There are also some good threads on the imprtance of speaking the same language.  However, I am too weary to find them.  You can do it or maybe someone will help.

Finally MONEY.  Not offense intended, yet as a teacher you may not have enough income to do this correctly (much planning, repeated trips, and enough money to get her here and take care of her for the year or so until she becomes adjusted).  So you need to study everything carefully in order to get the biggest bang for your buck.

Why don't you do some studying and return with some questions focused on what you really need to know.  RWD members with tons of experience will give you very good advice if your questions are focused and make you appear as sincere.

[Gator]

I'm not arguing and I'm not arrogant...

Again I question your sense of reality.  An attitude such as yours will fail big time over there.  They will send you back in a body bag (figuratively), or worse, hook you up with someone who will destroy your life here (literally).

but just looking for real advice and not looking to be attacked.

Fine, just control your attitude.

[Lily]

(and still attractive to teen girls -I'm a teacher) 

James, your profession may eventually be an issue with RW/UW. Not necessarily but anyway. From gilrs that I know, I don't remember that I heard anything positive about this profession, especially if it is about a man teacher. As other members posted, the teachers' remuneration may be a concern. At the same time, some people may even pay an outright disrespect to the teacher's profession    An authority? hmmm..I am afraid it could be rather the opposite.

[Mir]

So if you look 29 you will be able to attract girls who are 20, right?
And when this girl starts to talk to you (through your interpreter) she will ask you how old are you?
What will you do then? Tell her that you are 29 and get on with it (a lie that will eventually be exposed if you get into a relationship with her) or tell your real age in which case it won't make any difference how young you look as the girl will judge you as a prospect based on your actual biologic age and not by how young you look.
Or is it that you only plan to meet the girls who don't ask any questions and jump in the sack? Certainly you will find many of this variety in bars and discos but then take plenty of dosh to splash out.

[timothe]

James, here's what you really need to know to have a chance at success in this adventure.

You need approximately $80k to $100k USD of disposable income over the next 3 to 4 years.
You need about 6 weeks vacation time annually for the next three years so that you can visit that special someone enough to trust the process of bringing her to your country and assuming financial responsibility for her.
You need to be willing to devote a significant amount of your free time while not visiting her communicating with her by various means.   
You need to know yourself well enough to learn from your mistakes.

Good luck, James. 

[I/O]

I want a really young one ..............  when I can get that real young one......... just looking for real advice and not looking to be attacked.

Ya go away for a day and another sicko gets loose from some looney bin. Get out of bed JB, we need your help brother.

James Tee, here is some real advice with no intention of attack. Your opening post and the plan it contained clearly demonstrated you know nothing about the FSU or at least Russia and Ukraine in particular. That said, you can learn just a tiny bit here and the rest you'll have to swallow up as you go "On the ground".

Here is the first tiny bit............

Notwithstanding the fact that a handful of younger FSU women have married old farts like me, the VERY VAST majority of FSU women are neither interested in a foreigner or more particularly an older one. Get that through your head right now and save yourself some heartache.

Second tiny bit...............

RWD has seen a steady stream of guys come in here sciting about how young they look for their age. SFW? I'm 42, look 108 in the morning and am married to a hottie a bit more than half my age. What does that tell you? What it tells you is that any old fool can do exactly that if he uses his grey matter a touch. One way to use the grey matter is NOT come on forums populated by people who know a thing or two about this caper and tell how much better chance you have because you look so young.

Third tiny bit................

I was 39 (After a time looking around) when I took up with a 23 Y/O and I can tell you that when I did finally agree to explore the possabilities of a romantic relationship (Not that I wasn't tempted for a long time before) I was certainly not confident, in fact I was scared schitless. You know what, I wake up in the morning now, look at her and think WTF are you doing with an ol' fart like me. Her reasoning is that she loves me. Well guess what, that scares the schit out of me at times too because it tells (among other things) that I am worth something. Point is, you'd better work out what you are worth pretty quickly if you want to go chasing young fluff because if you don't know your value, you are going down like a sack of schit tossed overboard at sea.

I/O

[LiveFromUkraine]

James sound like a fantastic plan.  The women will love your charm and boyish good looks.
I think you should book your own flight and run over right away.  Women in discos are perfect wife material.
Don't forget to bring lots of cash.  This is a cash society here and you will need it.  Women will love the free
drinks, the free dinners and any clothes they can possibly get out of the greedy charming American.


Don't forget to come back and tell us how it went.  I would imagine you coming back with little cash but maybe engaged
after your one week here.


BTW, I am 37 year old living in Ukraine for the past 9 months.  I married a 27 year old.  I am told I can pass for 30 when I shave. 


When you come back to the states emptied of your cash maybe you should come back and apologize to the old prunes here.



Thomas

[Blues Fairy]

Oh come on guys, there are plenty of decent young stupid girls in Russia dying for a Daddy substitute.  Even at beaches and discos.  With such modest criteria, he'll find somebody no problem.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Oh come on guys, there are plenty of decent young stupid girls in Russia dying for a Daddy substitute.  Even at beaches and discos.  With such modest criteria, he'll find somebody no problem.

 

You are probably right BF.  This really makes me think of the saying "be careful of what you wish for because you may just get it."


James: I almost forgot to mention.  Making a successful marriage out of a huge age gap is something that only a particular type of man can do.  I can honestly say I don't think I would be that type of man.  I bet I would fail miserably if my wife and I had a bigger age gap.  I also don't think that you are that type of man as well just from your posts here.

There is a lot more than physical appearances that will be needed to make that type of marriage work or any marriage.  There are a lot of obstacles that I can only imagine.  I get just a little taste of the type of obstacles from the 10 year age difference of my wife and I.  That is why most of the people who are in a successful marriage with big age differences will not recommend it.  Something to think about but I am sure it just passed through your ears with the wind.



Thomas

[I/O]

Oh come on guys, there are plenty of decent young stupid girls in Russia dying for a Daddy substitute.  Even at beaches and discos.  With such modest criteria, he'll find some..........body no problem.

Doubtless.

I/O

[Bruce]

James, listen to Gator, ScottinCrimea and Simoni real close.   I want to add a few things.  Number one is that unless you have additional income, a teacher's salary just will not cut it when you date Internationally.  Now, if you find a teaching job in Russia or Ukraine etc. that is another story and probably your best option if you really are serious.  I would stick with girls above age 22, preferably 24 and up if I were you.  A girl preferably should be finished with University and out in the world for at least a year before she starts to fully understand her realities.  James Tee - is that James Teacher or James T, Asian background?  If it is Asian background your best luck would be in Kyrgystan or Khazakstan.  Good luck reading.

[Turboguy]

James, this can be one of the friendliest most helpful places you can ever find.  It can also be pretty hostile at times and probably the biggest factor is the members perceptions of the person asking for help or information.  Probably the two things that will get someone off on the wrong foot is first a statement about how they look much younger than they are and second is telling people here what you do and don't want to hear with a bit of an attitude.

Let me start of by saying this.   Had I found this place years before I did I would have saved years of searching and tens of thousands of dollars.   I am saying this because if you are going to look for an FSU woman and alienate those here who can help it might be just like throwing away years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars so think about it.

Tours:   I was the person referenced by Gator up thread and the link to the Jack Bragg "First Dream" trip report was my thread.   I would stay a million miles away from any tour except Jack's and that is the voice of experience and wasted money.   Jack's are excellent and you may even have time to catch his new Years eve part if you want.   It is worth doing.

What age range you want to search in is up to you.  Many feel that gals under the age of 25 are not settled enough for marriage but there are exceptions.    Finding young women interested in you at your age will not be a problem.   I am nearly twice your age, look three times your age and could still find some gals under 25 who would be interested.   Some even were serious about me and not just my wallet but those are hard to find.

I don't see looking for women under 25 at your age as unrealistic but the more realistic you are the fewer scammers and serial daters you will have to wade through and the more women you will find interested in you as a serious life partner.

This can be expensive.   I would not say a teacher could not afford it.   I think a lot of it depends on how you manage your money and how much disposable income you have.  You probably are looking at an investment of $ 15,000 to 30,000 to have much chance of success.   I have no idea how much I invested over the years but it would be well into 6 figures. 

I should apologize since I am one of the old prunes engaged to a woman not much above the age range you want to look in so you didn't want to hear my advice but you got it anyway.  Sorry dude.