Author Topic: LANGUAGE ! (Read 40930 times)

SANDRO43 · « **Reply #50 on:** January 22, 2009, 05:05:32 PM »

Quote from: OlgaH on January 22, 2009, 11:34:58 AM

The word СОЛДАТ- soldat (soldier) became current in Russia in the 17th century, when Russia started to form its army according to the Western European military standards

And the term soldier derives from Latin soldatus, i.e. recipient of a solidus, a Roman gold coin weighing about 5 grams first introduced by Diocletian around 301 AD, perhaps to mark the fact a soldier (previously just a miles, hence militia, military, etc.) for now quite some time had to be paid with real money rather than just salis (salt, hence salarius, i.e. salary)

as was traditional in olden times when it was a precious commodity.

Your link mentions dragoons, interesting in that they were the first historical example of mobile infantry: they rode horses to get to to the frontline, but then dismounted and fought on foot.

OlgaH · « **Reply #51 on:** January 22, 2009, 06:22:19 PM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 22, 2009, 05:05:32 PM

Your link mentions dragoons, interesting in that they were the first historical example of mobile infantry: they rode horses to get to to the frontline, but then dismounted and fought on foot.

But I think Louis of Nassau got idea from the king Matthias Corvinus of Hungary

- hussar regiments, in Russian - гусар (gusar).

What a beautiful uniforms they have at that times

A Romance from Russian movie "Put in a word for a poor hussar" О бедном гусаре замолвите слово (O byednom gusarye zamolvitye slovo"
Singer Mikhail Boyarsky.
"Put in a word for a poor hussar. Your husband doesn't let me go into billet. But woman's heart more tender than man's and it can take compassion on me... If your home is free for billet may be you also can find a place for me in your heart "

[youtube=425,350]ATI3p_-iGjg&feature=related[/youtube]

OlgaH · « **Reply #52 on:** January 22, 2009, 06:37:56 PM »

The song "A hussar's honor" from a Russian movie "Hussar's marriage proposal" Сватовство гусара

"Honor is above everything. Die, hussar, but don't lose your honor!"

[youtube=425,350]mm8TP_ebsQo[/youtube]

SANDRO43 · « **Reply #53 on:** January 22, 2009, 06:39:09 PM »

Quote from: OlgaH on January 22, 2009, 06:22:19 PM

But I think Louis of Nassau got idea from the king Matthias Corvinus of Hungary

Actually, who thinks that is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoon

.

Quote

A Romance from Russian movie "Put in a word for a poor hussar"

As in Italian romanza? I think the closest English term for that is ballad.

OlgaH · « **Reply #54 on:** January 22, 2009, 07:03:24 PM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 22, 2009, 06:39:09 PM

Actually, who thinks that is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoon .

So it means I still remember something from art/history lessons.

But I looked how to spell the name of Hungarian king Матьяш Корвин ("second Attila") in English

Hussar march "... and a woman's heart is trembling and thrilling"

[youtube=425,350]P1siFtOYaGI&feature=related[/youtube]

OlgaH · « **Reply #55 on:** January 22, 2009, 07:10:05 PM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 22, 2009, 06:39:09 PM

As in Italian romanza? I think the closest English term for that is ballad.

But according to the Russian music history the Russian Romance songs came into being as a genre by the middle of the 18th century and it has its roots in the French variety of the romance.

In 1759 the outstanding high official of Empress Elisabet, highly educated music-lover and one of the most enlightened persons of that time Grigory Nikolayevich Teplov published the collection of light sentimental songs under one name "Between business and leisure". The author of the lyrics was the nobleman poet Alexander Petrovich Sumarokov
Even the name of the collection pointed that the collection was destined for domestic amateur leisure.
During the 18th and 19th centuries the Russian composers developed the light sentimental songs as the particular classical genre Russian Sublime Romance.

SANDRO43 · « **Reply #56 on:** January 22, 2009, 07:34:43 PM »

Quote from: OlgaH on January 22, 2009, 07:10:05 PM

But according to the Russian music history the Russian Romance songs came into being as a genre to middle of the 18th century and it has its roots in the French variety of the romance.

I don't know what you mean by that. A romanza is typical in Italian opera, basically a love air/serenade sung by the tenor to his soprano.

By the way, your barely restrained passion for mustachioed hussars is worrying. Do you ask LEGAL to dress up as one on occasions $:-\$

? Here's a 1954 German film to feed your obsession

.

OlgaH · « **Reply #57 on:** January 22, 2009, 08:07:55 PM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 22, 2009, 07:34:43 PM

I don't know what you mean by that. A romanza is typical in Italian opera, basically a love air/serenade sung by the tenor to his soprano.

I'm not sure but I think it were some late French chansons some kind of the Courtly love song

and as your know the Italian romanza is French romance

To use the word "romance" was better than a word "courtoise"

Russian young ladies just blushed from that French word

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 22, 2009, 07:34:43 PM

By the way, your barely restrained passion for mustachioed hussars is worrying. Do you ask LEGAL to dress up as one on occasions $:-\$ ? Here's a 1954 German film to feed your obsession .

He already has a Cossack dress and I has prepared a Hussar dress for him. I think he with his mustache will look nice in Hussar dress

Thanks for the food

SANDRO43 · « **Reply #58 on:** January 23, 2009, 12:50:30 PM »

Quote from: OlgaH on January 22, 2009, 08:07:55 PM

He already has a Cossack dress and I has prepared a Hussar dress for him. I think he with his mustache will look nice in Hussar dress

That's even MORE worrying, since a dress is what women wear

$:-\$ . Can you post a photo?

Diplomacy · « **Reply #59 on:** January 23, 2009, 12:53:47 PM »

Quote from: OlgaH on January 22, 2009, 07:03:24 PM

So it means I still remember something from art/history lessons. But I looked how to spell the name of Hungarian king Матьяш Корвин ("second Attila") in English

Hussar march "... and a woman's heart is trembling and thrilling"

Matthias Corvinus (Bohemian King in western reading)

OlgaH · « **Reply #60 on:** January 23, 2009, 01:06:54 PM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 23, 2009, 12:50:30 PM

That's even MORE worrying, since a dress is what women wear $:-\$ .

Oxford online dictionary

Quote

noun 1 a one-piece garment for a woman or girl that covers the body and extends down over the legs. 2 clothing of a specified kind. 3 before another noun (of clothing) formal or ceremonial: a dress suit.

I used #2

For example: A Hussar of the 9th Regiment, Light Cavalry Dress, 1835-48
http://www.allposters.com/-sp/A-Hussar-of-the-9th-Regiment-Light-Cavalry-Dress-1835-48-Posters_i1342869_.htm

or

Quote

The basic dress of the 8th Hussars changed little during the final years of the nineteenth century.... White leather gloves complete the rider's dress.
http://www.militaryheritage.com/8thhussars.htm

Quote from: Diplomacy on January 23, 2009, 12:53:47 PM

Matthias Corvinus (Bohemian King in western reading)

The titles Bohemian King and Duke of Austria were additional

SANDRO43 · « **Reply #61 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:26:29 PM »

Well, this is the LANGUAGE thread, after all

.

Olga, it's a subtle problem of English USAGE. If you refer to DRESS as a 'category' (with/without the definite article THE, as in Light Cavalry Dress and The basic dress of the 8th Hussars), then it has the general meaning of clothing/apparel and may apply to either sex.

On the other hand, if you refer to a specific piece (using the indefinite article as in He already has a Cossack dress and I has prepared a Hussar dress, or as in one dress I wore), it takes on a definite sex connotation. In this case, a Hussar's uniform or a Hussar's costume would have avoided the ambiguity

.

Don't ask me why :noidea:, and I think native English speakers may support me, although I don't know whether this can be another area of dissimilarity in British/American usage, just compare hotel laundry lists from both countries for an idea on how they differ in their names for clothing

.

OlgaH · « **Reply #62 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:08:40 PM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 23, 2009, 06:26:29 PM

Olga, it's a subtle problem of English USAGE...

Oh, just look how they use the word "dress"

Dress the victim's wounds... Dress the salads... I Dress my hair for a dress dinner...

Diplomacy · « **Reply #63 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:23:17 PM »

Actually from an US military standpoint "Dress Blues" for example is appropriate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniforms_of_the_United_States_Marine_Corps

SANDRO43 · « **Reply #64 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:52:26 PM »

Quote from: Diplomacy on January 23, 2009, 07:23:17 PM

Actually from an US military standpoint "Dress Blues" for example is appropriate.

Yes, but dress is used there as an adjective (i.e. 'formal' Blues) not as a noun, and the whole expression is 'jargonical', the piece probably inventoried as UNIFORM, BLUE, PARADE, FOR USE AT, 1 or similar

.

Now I may be wrong or out of date. Suppose you were a Scotsman

preparing for a formal event which you are expected to attend in your full Scotch regalia. You'd say which:

1. "I'm going to wear Scottish dress tonight"
2. "I'm going to wear the Scottish dress tonight"
3. "I'm going to wear my Scottish dress tonight"
4. "I'm going to wear a Scottish dress tonight"

1 sounds right, 2/3 about right (particularly if your wife had just asked "Dear, what are you going to wear tonight, European or Scottish?"), 4 sounds definitely funny - to me at least.

Any Scotsmen around to confirm/deny the above

? Blues Fairy, if you're reading this, you could ask your husband

.

OlgaH · « **Reply #65 on:** January 23, 2009, 08:38:43 PM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 23, 2009, 07:52:26 PM

(particularly if your wife had just asked "Dear, what are you going to wear tonight, European or Scottish?"), 4 sounds definitely funny - to me at least.

SANDRO43,

what about "I'm going to wear your Scottish skirt tonight"

The Russian name for a tartan skirt is yubka (skirt) "shotlandka" (юбка "шотландка")

SANDRO43 · « **Reply #66 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:23:51 PM »

Quote from: OlgaH on January 23, 2009, 08:38:43 PM

what about "I'm going to wear your Scottish skirt tonight"

Olga, NO self-respecting Scot would say he's going to wear a skirt

, he wears a KILT.

Quote

kilt from M.E. verb kilten "to tuck up" (c.1340), from a Scand. source (cf. Dan. kilte op "to tuck up;" O.N. kilting "shirt," kjalta "fold made by gathering up to the knees").http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=kilt

Kilt, n. [OGael. cealt clothes, or rather perhaps from Dan. kilte op to truss, tie up, tuck up.]http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resource=Webster%27s&word=kilt&use1913=on

Etymology seems to favour shirt, rather than skirt, as a possible origin of the word

.

Bluebell · « **Reply #67 on:** January 24, 2009, 01:41:18 AM »

Quote from: Diplomacy on January 23, 2009, 12:53:47 PM

Matthias Corvinus (Bohemian King in western reading)

Hmmm, sounds more like western ignorance

ScottinCrimea · « **Reply #68 on:** January 24, 2009, 04:59:17 AM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 23, 2009, 11:23:51 PM

Olga, NO self-respecting Scot would say he's going to wear a skirt

So you are excluding self-respecting Scotts? Do I need to change the spelling of my name to get your respect? I think that's carrying the linguist thing just a bit too far!

Diplomacy · « **Reply #69 on:** January 24, 2009, 05:25:14 AM »

Quote from: Bluebell on January 24, 2009, 01:41:18 AM

Hmmm, sounds more like western ignorance

Why is that ignorance?

OlgaH · « **Reply #70 on:** January 24, 2009, 08:31:46 AM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 23, 2009, 11:23:51 PM

Olga, NO self-respecting Scot would say he's going to wear a skirt , he wears a KILT.

No, Sandro, women in Russia don't wear a kilt, they wear a юбка "шотландка" , and a Scottish man married a Russian woman should know it, if something happens to his kilt he always can borrow a юбка "шотландка" from his Russian wife

SANDRO43 · « **Reply #71 on:** January 24, 2009, 09:14:47 AM »

Quote from: ScottinCrimea on January 24, 2009, 04:59:17 AM

Do I need to change the spelling of my name to get your respect?

No, just don't wear a skirt or, if you can't repress the urge, do a public outing

.

OlgaH · « **Reply #72 on:** January 24, 2009, 09:49:51 AM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 24, 2009, 09:14:47 AM

No, just don't wear a skirt ...

Sandro, do you want to say that it is disreputable to wear a skirt? Stop this male chauvinism

Abolish gender clothing-apartheid!

To each man a skirt!

Why not?

SANDRO43 · « **Reply #73 on:** January 24, 2009, 09:59:07 AM »

Quote from: OlgaH on January 24, 2009, 09:49:51 AM

Why not?

We're not used to drafts of cold air making their way up to...you know what

.

OlgaH · « **Reply #74 on:** January 24, 2009, 10:19:18 AM »

Quote from: SANDRO43 on January 24, 2009, 09:59:07 AM

We're not used to drafts of cold air making their way up to...you know what .

Oh, these delicate creatures

Don't worry the Company G Lieberman & Sons already took care of it.

Stockings for men (in Russian)
http://www.loretta.ru/?view=889

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.loretta.ru/%3Fview%3D889&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dloretta.ru%2B%25D0%259A%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BB%25D0%25B3%25D0%25BE%25D1%2582%25D0%25BA%25D0%25B8%2B%25D0%25B4%25D0%25BB%25D1%258F%2B%25D0%25BC%25D1%2583%25D0%25B6%25D1%2587%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

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Author Topic: LANGUAGE ! (Read 40930 times)

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