Off to Kiev I go!

[boltar]

Well I just finished booking and confirming with mr Jack on one of his tours this Christmas/New Year.

I'll be there from Dec 26 to Jan 6th.

Any helpful hints or encouragement?

John

[Shadow]

Good luck on your trip and let us know how cold it was. 

[mervin]

Just make sure Jack picks up the tab's for the food and drinks at the nightclubs. Hell, you might as well invite some girls to dine with you too. Jack loves to pay for his guests! 

[Ulysses]

   I was just minutes away from booking on that trip with you.....so please give us all a big report after your return....Thanks....Ulysses

[Taz]

I don't see what the appeal to these tours are. Wouldn't you rather have something more private? If you want a tour, is a "personal" tour an option? I have heard a lot of bad things about people being charged for something that they actually thought was included.

Later they were told to go back and read the fine print on the website. For example on one tour people were charged for a bus from one city to another in addition to their up front fees. They were charged once they got on the bus. You can imagine how many PO'd customers there were.

Who is this Jack guy?

[Kuna]

Who is this Jack guy?

Taz,

Jack is a long standing member of RWD who has helped out many people.  As tours go I understand his are a bit more flexible and a bit more productive.  I'm not a fan of tours but I think it could suit some people...

I haven't met Jack by the way... but he's helped me out a few times - once when I was stuck in Kiev and in desperate need of advice after a guide scammed me and was about to take me to the cleaners.

If I were making a first trip to Ukraine and needed help Jack is the first guy I would go to - even just for advice.

btw... I have no association with him... this is an unpaid advert... and I have no commercial interest in FSU dating...  My comments are just how I see it. 

Kuna

[Turboguy]

I don't see what the appeal to these tours are. Wouldn't you rather have something more private? If you want a tour, is a "personal" tour an option? I have heard a lot of bad things about people being charged for something that they actually thought was included.

Later they were told to go back and read the fine print on the website. For example on one tour people were charged for a bus from one city to another in addition to their up front fees. They were charged once they got on the bus. You can imagine how many PO'd customers there were.

Who is this Jack guy?

Jack charges for the bus between cities or trains, taxi's or whatever transportation is needed.   He is very upfront about what he charges for and what he doesn't.   You also pay for your transportation to the country and your hotels or apartments in each city.   Jack does not hide this at all and it is both on his website and in the personal communication he sends prior to the trip.   Actually he discusses with you individually how he prices the travel and gives you an estimate of what to expect but until he knows exactly how many are on the bus for example he can not price it exactly.

I will agree that it is different from how the big agencies have done it.  I did three tours with European Connections around the 2001-2003 or 4 time frame.  Basically you just told Robin which airport you wanted to fly out of and everything was arranged for you and included.  They held your hand the whole way basically.  Most of the attendees were on the same plane, picked up at the airport as a group and all costs were covered.

Personally my two cents worth are that it does not matter how they do it as long as people are aware of what is happening in advance and accept that plan.   Even though the big agency I did a tour was done in a very professional manner, even though they held everyone's hand the whole way and even though it was all inclusive I would never recommend a big agency tour to anyone and if someone told me they were planning one I think I would do anything humanly possible to talk them out of it.

Having been on one of Jack's tours I am a little surprised with the gals Boltar is meeting.  It sound just like the one's I met on EM's tour.  Humm, some of those I met were in Kiev.  Don't I remember him mentioning an Anna:

[Son of Clyde]

I haven't met Jack by the way... but he's helped me out a few times - once when I was stuck in Kiev and in desperate need of advice after a guide scammed me and was about to take me to the cleaners.

Please let it stop right here and now. I will say no more. Boltar please PM me if you have any questions.

[Mod2]

Please let it stop right here and now. I will say no more. Boltar please PM me if you have any questions.

Please use the report to moderator link for posts you believe are inappropriate. 

Thanks

[Shadow]

If people would care to read they would see that Boltar already is in Kiev on Jack's tour. Any advice here seems not needed.

[catzenmouse]

Silly Shadow! Do you really expect people to READ before they post? Silly, silly boy...

I'll bet you think people read instructions too! 

[jb]

I suspect Jack communicates with local agencies to provide the women who attend these socials, I doubt Jack personally knows very many of them.  A local agency can pad the roster with the professional girls and never miss a beat.  How could Jack ever possibly know?  From Boltar's description, I think he and his fellow teammates are in the clutches of some pros.  There probably isn't a potential wife in the bunch.  These guys have already blown off the decent women and concentrated their efforts on the really pretty ones,,, guess what???  The really pretty ones are the sharks.  And they smell blood in the water.

How do you communicate the reality of what's happening in the midst of a tour?  Not likely to happen. 

[Son of Clyde]

If people would care to read they would see that Boltar already is in Kiev on Jack's tour. Any advice here seems not needed.

Yes I knew this and I sent him a PM for when he returns.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I suspect Jack communicates with local agencies to provide the women who attend these socials, I doubt Jack personally knows very many of them.  A local agency can pad the roster with the professional girls and never miss a beat.  How could Jack ever possibly know?  From Boltar's description, I think he and his fellow teammates are in the clutches of some pros.  There probably isn't a potential wife in the bunch.  These guys have already blown off the decent women and concentrated their efforts on the really pretty ones,,, guess what???  The really pretty ones are the sharks.  And they smell blood in the water.

How do you communicate the reality of what's happening in the midst of a tour?  Not likely to happen. 

I think along the same lines as you JB.  I really have no sympathy for some of them.  I doubt they would be buying bathing suits for people on their first date back home.  If they want to be that dumb than I say let them waste their money.  I find it very doubtful some of them will actually learn from the experience.  Smells too much of desperation to me.  It should be a nice payday for some of those sharks.



Thomas

[Daveman]

Catz, before you leave for Kiev, you need to get a Visa, there's a 120 waiting period so plan early.  Also be sure to let the agencies arrange everything for you - translations, accommodations, drivers, guides, girls, all of it.  Just remember, the goal here is to find the prettiest babe, get her in the sack and a ring on her finger.. Make sure you buy one ant take it with you.  It could be a fake if you want, she'll never know with the quality of the faux diamonds these days.. Just be sure you have that ring with you! You'll need that!  You can handle the engagement in about three days.  Now the coolest thing to do is to take all your apostate sealed records with you so you can just get married right there on the trip!  You can be married in just a few extra days... if you don't take the docs with you, it'll take a couple of months. 

Good luck!  Be sure to put up a trip report!!

Dave

[catzenmouse]

Thanks Dave! Is it okay if I bring my wife along so she can check the girls out to see if they're good enough for me? 

[Daveman]

I think along the same lines as you JB.  I really have no sympathy for some of them. 

The whole tour thing never made much sense to me other than for a 'vacation'.  Do we have anyone of record on RWD who has successfully met his wife this way? If so, I can't remember it.

Dave


Catz, you're married?  I must have missed that thread... oh well, yeah, take her along.. She can test the waters!  THAT should be one heck of an interesting Trip report! 

[I/O]

These guys have already blown off the decent women and concentrated their efforts on the really pretty ones

Never really thought the two were necessarily mutually exclusive. May I tender some advice to you JB if you are still on field work, firstly I doubt your wife is not "Really Pretty" but more importantly, if you tell your RW she is anything other than really pretty, there ain't much point in going home, because that sure as hell wouldn't be pretty.

Nevertheless, this caper continues to remind me of the stock and share market, patient people hold good stock whilst impatient people always sell good stock to buy poor stock because of some percieved glitter.

I/O

[SANDRO43]

Now the coolest thing to do is to take all your apostate sealed records with you so you can just get married right there on the trip!

Does the Ukr. Gov. require abjuring one's religion in order to get married there ? An unexpected revival of Soviet times .

[Daveman]

Does the Ukr. Gov. require abjuring one's religion in order to get married there ? An unexpected revival of Soviet times .

LoL.. sheesh... absolutely.. and before traveling to FSU, it's best to use the apo-stille to get some home brew high proof holy water to bring and share.. lol......  LOL...  nice slip of the mind up there...  that's actually a really funny goof up from a couple of different angles! 

[SANDRO43]

it's best to use the apo-stille to get some home brew high proof holy water to bring and share..

Waxing apo-stoHolic ?

[Shadow]

well as jb says even a blind squirrel can find a nut at times.
For a guy like boltar who is 32 and wants to test the waters rather than get back engaged there could be worse things than Jack's tour. He seems to have learned a great deal on which women to avoid, and how to spot that someone is not interested in you.
This will help him in the future.

Dave I have said to my fiancee she is not the prettiest woman I ever met, and I still live. Probably because I followed it up by telling her that I could never find a better partner. 

But I will be happy to go with her to Kiev and shop together with Ken. As my fiancee is Moscovite, she could point out the best 'Ukrainian hooker' types. 

Ok...as this thread has no value anyway...let me recall a story from Kiev. I was with my date there in a minibus when a woman wearing tight pants and a half top that was fastened in het neck needed to get out. If you guys know the position you have to walk in in a minibus, you can imagine that she might just as well have been topless... no way to not to look... 
Reaction of my date... she is man-hunting... 

[jb]

I/O

JB if you are still on field work,

Hey~!  Don't knock it.  I'll finish this project midweek, I'll enjoy a few days of pheasant shooting out west of here, then move over to my next project the following week.   All I have to do is stay busy till the end of February and then I can take the rest of the year off and go fishing.  I love my job...

BTW, my wife was never just "really pretty", she has always been beautiful.

[Son of Clyde]

I almost went on Jacks tour in  2004 but at that time I started corresponding with my wife. I actually found a very good agency that would bend over backwards to ensure everything was going ok.
All I remember, is speaking with Jack on the phone two or three times and him telling me I had to start writing to a few women to have someone to meet on the tour. If I remember correctly, Jack sets up the dinners and the tours from city to city. Jack also arranges for the women to be present at the dinners. He puts together an itinerary, but it is up to the guys to have the women lined up beforehand. I think this can be a positive thing to have someone arrange for you to meet several women during your tour. I believe he would also make sure there are interpreters present at all the functions. Also, it appears the women should know in advance that you have written to more than one, so there is no deception involved. Maybe I am wrong and Turboguy can correct me but I seem to remember this is how the tours are set up. Even if you don't meet any ladies it is a good way to see a good bit of Ukraine. If you think about it, Jacks job is a challenging one because things can and do go wrong from time to time.

[Turboguy]

You are close SOC but not exact.   Yes, Jack does encourage you to line up women in advance and he also has you pick a dozen or so from each city who are listed with the agencies he works with and he tries to arrange for you to meet as many of the ones you picked as possible.   I had no contact with any of the ladies prior to my trip but did meet about half of the ladies I picked in advance as well as others the agencies or Jack felt might be suitable. 

My son on the otherhand had advance contact with quite a few ladies including some who were from sites Jack recommends but does not work with directly.  (Merry Dating was one of those and I don't recall without looking back who the others were)   Usually you are meeting 2-4 women a day and then spending additional time with the ones you like the best.   There is one party per city and you meet the ones you liked, the ones the other guys liked and any the agency sent in.

Probably one of the biggest differences in the way Jack works vs the big agency tours is that with the big agencies you are in a room with all the ladies and if you see a lady you think is interesting you have your interpreter invite her for a chat.   You meet perhaps 10% of the ladies.  The beautiful ladies are spending all their time going from table to table and some of the others may never talk to anyone.   With Jack's tour you meet every lady and every lady meets every man.   No one stands around never talking to anyone.   It can be a bit overwhelming though because you do meet so many ladies and sometimes don't really have a chance to get to know too many well.   I liked the way Jack does it far better than the way the big agencies structure things.   It is not perfect but I thought it worked well.  My son and I did a 4 city tour and had things not panned out with VWRW there were three from the tour that I would have been interested in going back to see again and truthfully there were some more that could also have been interesting.