Hello..hopefully full filling my 1st obligation for registration

[Faux Pas]

I have been a registered member for sometime time but haven't posted here as yet. I have been reading the forum of RWD and found it interesting, helpful and some of it questionable. I have been a member of other forums and posted there but for various reasons stopped doing so sometime back. A little background on myself: I live in the mid-south of the US and I started considering the international dating idea more than two years ago. I have been registered and joined several international marriage/dating sites. I have not visited but plan on doing so in the coming year if my particular situation continues on it's current path. I've read the advice in various places about WMVM but that idea doesn't feel to me to be my particular cup of tea. I find it very grueling writing to many, I can imagine how it might be to try and visit that many as well. In any event I have been writing to one only for a few months and am looking to plan a trip to Tomsk. RWD seems like a great forum with some boat loads of knowledge on the subject. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

[BC]

Welcome Fa(u)x pas!

Good to see lurkers take the dive.. haha

Can't jive in with much WOVO/WMVM or whatever.. I'm the MOMO (Met one, married one) kinda guy.

If there is any suggestion I could give it would be to simply take it easy.. Keep expectations low and be pleasantly surprised if anything goes 'right'.

Write the cost of your trip off at the beginning and just enjoy!

Cheers!

[Faux Pas]

Hi BC and thanks for the welcome.

I saw my spelling mistake immediately after signing up but haven't figured out how to correct it. Oh well, I guess it's just a facsimile of a faux pas 

I've pretty much already been following those suggestions. It has taken me a while to decide my approach. I have communicated with several women over the last couple of years but none of them progressed the way my most recent one has. We're developing a really great friendship and both of us seem to have the same long term personal goals. We communicate constantly either by email or telephone.

I meet her on Elena's models and am convinced she is not a scammer or good time girl but a truly wonderful lady looking for love. I have encountered a couple of scammers in the past. That experience is actually what initially stirred my interest. We're both in our 40's, educated with seemingly good heads on our shoulders. She is actually the first one I've contemplated a visit to and in the stages of planning. Due to my work situation I'm going to wait out the winter and visit in the spring/summer.

My question is actually more from a logistical standpoint. Tomsk is in Siberia, it seems with limited airline traffic and a very long train ride. Do you know the most efficient way to get there? My entire trip couldn't be longer than two weeks and I hope not to be spending the lion share of it traveling. I do my share of traveling in-country as it is and it's not my most favorite thing to do.

I'm not a rich man by any stretch of the imagination, but yes I can afford this. I have a very good job, nice salary, some savings and my last child soon out of college. The expense is really not the object but I don't believe in wasting any money either

Again, any advice is greatly appreciated.

[SANDRO43]

I saw my spelling mistake immediately after signing up but haven't figured out how to correct it. Oh well, I guess it's just a facsimile of a faux pas 

Welcome and don't worry, we can take a hint and won't send you any faxes, either .

[I/O]

Faux Pas:

http://www.s7.ru/en/about_us/news/2002/06/2002-06-17.html

Formerly Siberian Airlines now S-7 have served me extremely well over the last few years. They have 2 per day Moscow to Novosibirsk and at least one if not 2 per day to Omsk. I haven't searched Tomsk but in the worst case, you would have about a 7 hour train ride from Novosibirsk to Tomsk, assuming you are going in Via Moscow.

Think outside the square a little and check out going the other way from LA for example. You should be able to fly into China or Korea and you can (I have done it both ways) fly direct to Novosibirsk from either of those two. Novosibirsk has international status, immigration, customs, passport control etc. I doubt you'll get a flight from Novosibirsk to Tomsk, but worth checking.

S-7 can arrange some internal transport for you and I'd suggest you get in touch with them. If you can't read or speak Russian, you are dead in the water once you get past the coffee machine in the airport. Think about it. Your lady might even be interested in taking the train to Novosibirsk if you can't fly to Tomsk and meet you there. Goodness knows, mine did I don't know how many times. I was never allowed out of her sight once in Russia. Go figure. These girls know how to protect themselves AND their interests.

Anytime from early June onwards the weather is quite pleasant. However, that is a long way out from now and honestly, I think it is too long. 

I/O

[Faux Pas]

I/O

Thank you very much. The airline info has turned out to be very valuable. There is a S-7 daily flight to Tomsk via Moscow. The asian route was much more expensive. As it turns out Tomsk is exactly half way around the globe from me. There's a tremendous difference in price going the asian route as opposed to the european. I'm not sure why unless it's just volume of traffic. I haven't found an international carrier to Novosibirsk. Do you know of one?

I would like to ask you your opinion of why the "hurry" to get over there? Some advice is go quickly other advice is slow down and take your time. What say you sir?

[Lily]

My guess would be that those who advise to go to visit as soon as possible, prefer saving time and sort out things early on. The sooner you see each other, the quickier you understand whether you found what you wanted, or have you been out of luck this time. In latter case, the sooner you move on to the next, the more time you save for yourself.

Also, it could be rather painful to fell attracted to the person online and to discover  that there is no chemistry when you see each other in person.

However, if you visit in spring/summer, you still have plenty of time to get to know your new friend better.

[I/O]

What say you sir?

Far too much usually and often when it is none of my business. It is entirely up to you and the lady in question. I gather neither of you are teenagers and are taking a long view of things. Mine and I did similar, but we did plan to meet much earlier. It simply went astray because of my work and her studies. We had difficulties between the two of us creating a clear time window. It worked ultimately, but I think generally speaking there is too great of a danger of building up too many expectations and emotions with very long communications which can be dashed upon meeting. Would I do what I did again? Yes I probably would, but I would advise against it based on what I have seen with many others.

The flip side is that I have always preached the value of letters and other non face communications and will continue to do so because IMO too much emphisis is often placed on so called chemistry which I think is little more than imfatuation. Gawd, if there is any chemistry between mine and I even now it is something like mixing sulphuric acid with water and watching it boil.

Glad you found something with S-7. That's the real benefit of RWD. Usually there is someone who has done something close to what you are trying to do. It's a small but relatively aggressive airline that seems to be thinking outside the "Russian Square". You'll find their planes older (Mainly A312 airbus etc) but clean, tidy and the service more than acceptable. I don't imagine any other international carrier would fly into Novosibirsk. No volume. I'm not entirely surprised you couldn't find anything on the Asian route at a reasonable price, but it was worth a shot. For me, down here, it is a double edged knife. The European route is often slightly cheaper but so long that it annoys the hell out of me. The Asian route is often a couple of hundred dollars more, but to save 8-10 hours mucking around, it suits me fine.

Check out S-7's partners and you may find you can ticket right through. It depends on whether or not your initial carrier can "plate" a ticket. Put the pressure on the bastards. Travel agents, online or onland are a lazy bunch and I hammer them. They need reminding that you are their customer, not the other way around.

Seek out TurboGuy's opinion regarding travel routes and providers also. He's was at this for 10 years before he met his waterloo. Believe me, it is much easier going from airport to airport than it is travelling by other means in Russia if you don't have language.

I/O

[MaxxumUSA]

I skimmed the responses.  Basically I want to tell you it is OK to WOVO.  Like BC said...  I met one and married one.  There was only one woman that I have ever talked to from russia for a relationship, and we are now married and she is here with me in the USA.

Matter of fact...  she is upstairs waiting for me right this second.  I'm cutting this short to go be with her.

Best of luck - and ...  GET ON A PLANE!

- Maxxum

[Faux Pas]

Also, it could be rather painful to fell attracted to the person online and to discover  that there is no chemistry when you see each other in person.

However, if you visit in spring/summer, you still have plenty of time to get to know your new friend better.

Hi Lily!

You don't seem to be endorsing one way or the other.  If I may ask, which is the way you prefer? Have you communicated for someone for 7-8 months and then upon meeting them, they turned out much different than expected and a big let down? I realize the rose colored glasses that can fill ones eyes from an internet introduction and I'm cautious of that but, that can work in ones favor as well as against them. Do you agree? I still have my work schedule to consider and it doesn't appear I can go until late March or early April. If it were possible I would go tomorrow but this isn't a weekend jaunt kind of thing or is it?...LOL

[Faux Pas]

Far too much usually and often when it is none of my business. It is entirely up to you and the lady in question. I gather neither of you are teenagers and are taking a long view of things. Mine and I did similar, but we did plan to meet much earlier. It simply went astray because of my work and her studies. We had difficulties between the two of us creating a clear time window. It worked ultimately, but I think generally speaking there is too great of a danger of building up too many expectations and emotions with very long communications which can be dashed upon meeting. Would I do what I did again? Yes I probably would, but I would advise against it based on what I have seen with many others.



I/O

Thats a good point and close to the one Lily made as well. At this juncture there has been no pressure per se' from her to move quickly nor any from me to act quickly. Everything has progressed at a steady pace. You are right, we are not google-eyed teenagers but the excitement and interest is still building. We've both declared such and that we both want to see where this can go. I would like to think we're both level headed clear thinking adults who know what they want and unwilling to settle. I guess what I am trying to say, from my line of thought I'm not so sure there is a right or wrong way. Fast or slow as you mentioned would depend on the lady and I. We both seem relatively happy with the current progression. I'm okay with that 

I skimmed the responses.  Basically I want to tell you it is OK to WOVO.  Like BC said...  I met one and married one.  There was only one woman that I have ever talked to from russia for a relationship, and we are now married and she is here with me in the USA.

Matter of fact...  she is upstairs waiting for me right this second.  I'm cutting this short to go be with her.

Best of luck - and ...  GET ON A PLANE!

- Maxxum

Hi Maxxum! Yes I am okay with that too. I've saw many places that strongly urged against it, having a back up plan yadda, yadda, yadda. If for whatever reason the lady doesn't work out it will just turn into more of an adventure. Quite honestly I wouldn't make the trip at all if it wasn't to meet her. Russia seems like a great place, it's just that I haven't lost anything over there that I am aware of.

[I/O]

Faux Pas: Do Have a back up plan....!!! That is simply a must..!!! From where I sit and reading what you say, I doubt that back up plan would include a list of ladies to meet, but it is simply good sense to do some homework on a couple of interesting locations along the way which you can defer to if for whatever reason things go pear shaped.

I would also try to search out an "All Service" agent. Tomsk is not a small city. You should be able to find something there and at very least you have some logistical support if you needed it. Whether or not you chose to use that agent to meet women in that event is another story, but you should have some support if needed.

I've long thought and said several times here, the first trip should be as much if not more about getting a feel for Russia as it is about meeting someone. Have a back up plan of some sort no matter what....!!!

I/O

[Faux Pas]

I/0

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to as a "back up" plan. If you mean other things to do and places to go then well yes, I would have a back up plan. If you mean other ladies, as if I was on safari looking for a wall mount trophy, then no I don't. I am not going to string some other ladies along in case I wind up with free time to meet them if things go south. I wouldn't feel right about that. However, should things go south, I feel relatively confident that I could meet some ladies on my own should that situation arise. If I can't then I'll need a plan B I suppose. Maybe I should check out an agency before leaving?

I stated earlier I would only go to Russia to meet this lady. I would look at it the same way if she were in South Africa or China. I am going to meet a friend with some hopes of long range implications. At this point nothing more or nothing less. If an adventure breaks out then I am all for it. I guess I should have asked you this first, what do you consider a back up plan?

I/O, I really do appreciate you taking the time to chat about this with me. My response is no attempt to be contrary to your advice. You've already helped me loads.  I just today noticed the back up plan in the forum 10 commandments....L....get behind me O ye Satan!

What was your Back up plan your first time over there?

[Lily]

Hi Lily!

You don't seem to be endorsing one way or the other.  If I may ask, which is the way you prefer? Have you communicated for someone for 7-8 months and then upon meeting them, they turned out much different than expected and a big let down? I realize the rose colored glasses that can fill ones eyes from an internet introduction and I'm cautious of that but, that can work in ones favor as well as against them. Do you agree? I still have my work schedule to consider and it doesn't appear I can go until late March or early April. If it were possible I would go tomorrow but this isn't a weekend jaunt kind of thing or is it?...LOL

Fax Pas,

If it would be about my personal preference only, I'd prefer arranging a personal meeting as soon as possible at all. If occasionally we are both in Moscow, an exchange of a couple of letters is enough, and we could agree on time and place to see each other in real. I don't see any reasons to postpone a personal meeting when there is a possibility to do it soon.

However, there are often the cases when both people are in different countries, therefore such ideal way of trying your luck is not possible. Then people are to arrange meeting when and where they can do it, given the need to arrange vacation, visas, etc. That could take months. Therefore, I think, the prolongued time to get to know each other better would rather result from reality.

[BC]

Faux Pas,

You sound like a 'gambler in passing'.. - that would put a hundred dollar bill on black or red at the roulette table and be happy with whatever happened and not someone that is obsessed.. - as many are with this RW venture.

That's healthy IMHO.  You want to meet this woman but don't seem 'bent' on getting married to a RW.

I always figured that a telephone number in your back pocket of a local contact is enough backup, maybe even access to an internet cafe to sign on here if the chemistry does not work out.. I am sure there are those 'in the know' here that could help out in a pinch.. - then again, this from someone who didn't go the agency route so all very FWIW.

[Faux Pas]

Fax Pas,

If it would be about my personal preference only, I'd prefer arranging a personal meeting as soon as possible at all. If occasionally we are both in Moscow, an exchange of a couple of letters is enough, and we could agree on time and place to see each other in real. I don't see any reasons to postpone a personal meeting when there is a possibility to do it soon.

However, there are often the cases when both people are in different countries, therefore such ideal way of trying your luck is not possible. Then people are to arrange meeting when and where they can do it, given the need to arrange vacation, visas, etc. That could take months. Therefore, I think, the prolonged time to get to know each other better would rather result from reality.

Lily,

Being in the same city or even the same country would be the ideal situation and like you I would want to expedite the meeting as quickly as possible. But that isn't the case. The realities are we live literally half way around the world from each other. The travel time alone is going to be 3-5 days to and fro. In this instance I personally feel there cannot be enough preparations made and that would include as much insurance as possible that this lady would be the right one. Should that take another month or two, I feel it would be worth the wait in the long run.

There's an old saying "The greater the risk, the greater the reward". But to plan for failure in hopes of a greater reward doesn't appeal to me. There's truth to that I believe but should I fail on this trip it would only prolong the next trip if there was another trip at all. However success on this trip would insure another and most likely much quicker. It is certainly possible I could meet a lady online and be in her city any where in the world the same week (given a visa was possible). That seems to me it would insure much expense and almost certain failure

Faux Pas,

You sound like a 'gambler in passing'.. - that would put a hundred dollar bill on black or red at the roulette table and be happy with whatever happened and not someone that is obsessed.. - as many are with this RW venture.

That's healthy IMHO.  You want to meet this woman but don't seem 'bent' on getting married to a RW.

I always figured that a telephone number in your back pocket of a local contact is enough backup, maybe even access to an internet cafe to sign on here if the chemistry does not work out.. I am sure there are those 'in the know' here that could help out in a pinch.. - then again, this from someone who didn't go the agency route so all very FWIW.

Actually I have placed bets crazier than that on the roulette wheel but I digress  I noticed the seemingly obsession factor in these threads as well. No I am not obsessed (not that theres anything wrong with that). I perhaps look at it a bit differently than most. I will be going to meet a woman who happens to be russian. My hopes are certainly high but I would not be crushed or devastated if either she, I or both of us did not feel a mutual attraction. Disappointed maybe, but hell bent on making some lemonade with my lemons.

BC, I would very much like to get married. Not especially to a russian woman, but the woman I happened to love. If she happens to be russian I am prepared for that and will deal with it. I've been down a few dusty roads in the romance department. My batting average isn't that great But I keep returning for more......L

[I/O]

Faux Pas: I am far from the be all and end all on this subject and there is plenty of other opinions to solicit which may be of more value than mine, however, I am glad some of my experience is useful to you. Very glad.

I like the way you are approaching this in so far as, similar to BC, I see you don't appear hell bent on getting a "Marriage result" out of this and your comments indicate a similar approach to KenC when he first went to Russia. "Meeting a friend with possabilities".

Back up plan: I didn't have one as such because I didn't go to Russia in search of women. From the time I was a kid, I had always wanted to see parts of Siberia and in particular Baikal. I did just that and some..................I had been in Russia about 3 minutes when I started chatting some doll (About half my age) up at a ticket desk in the airport and that ultimately, through a very long and twisted chain of events, over a two year period, led to my meeting my now wife. That is the best part of 5 years ago. Even then, chatting up this doll as I was, it was just that and nothing more. I was, at the time, in no mood or mind to consider finding a wife anywhere, much less in Russia. I'd had one for 10 years and certainly didn't need or want another.

Frankly, it was when I ran out of things to do one evening in Krasnoyarsk, I was sitting on the block wall of the central city fountains with a beer in hand watching the world go by so to say, that I first started to seriously observe families and in particular women with children. The 'ol brain started slowly turning over as I was seeing something I liked by the way they went about things. Yeah, sure, the short skirts and cute arses were there, but they are a dime a dozen everywhere and thats not the issue. It was other things that really captured my attention.

I suggest you are on the right track with touristy options as a back up plan. I would add to my list, contact (Both email and telephone) with an agent. I would search out what public internet facilities might be available and an address. (May have access in your hotel if you stay in one) Between those three, you should be able to cover your bases in a knock down drag out situation. Frankly, I am no fan either of lining up a heap of hopeful ladies to meet. Others do it and do it well, but it is "Turret Gunner" style IMO and I am much more of a "Sniper" type. (Spend the time, stake out the quarry and don't miss)

I don't know how long you have been communicating with this lady (None of my business) however, I would be inclined to suggest you should be meeting inside 6 months of that time. Simply my opinion based on what I see as a danger of building up too much expectation.

I think the trick with this caper is to be able to "Think outside the square" a little. Be prepared to make it up as you go along and go with the flow, whichever direction that ultimately takes, BUT keep your powder dry.

I/O

[Kuna]

Faux par,

You're getting good advice above...  and I too think your approach is a good one.

Personally I think the more interest you have in the location, culture, adventure, etc rather than and obsession with the woman/women - the better your "luck" with the woman/women on your trip.

Women have a universal ability to smell desperation and neediness and it's a turn-off.  Some men might think they are being romantic when they are so focussed on a woman but there is a line that logical thought can help you maintain.

Your WOVO plan is a good one but having contingencies in place are only sensible.  The contingencies might include meeting other women (via an agency) if you should so choose...  or it may simply be making your way on your own to experience more of Russia.  Your first trip to FSU is like nothing you could ever imagine and if you plan your trip well you'll carry memories with you for the rest of your life that will be cherished.

I was lucky to have met the worlds most wonderful girl on my first trip but for others it isn't so easy...  I wish you a similar experience to mine!

Kuna

[I/O]

I was lucky to have met the worlds most wonderful girl on my first trip Kuna

I was gunna say, "Get your hand off it", but then I thought a little and concluded it must be her hand that is on it with a very firm grip if she has you uttering such statements.

Faux Pas: One thing I have noticed among all the BS around this caper is there is a few of the newer guys to this who seem to be using a much more planned approach than fools like me did years back. I can only assume that has something to do with their coming to discussion boards and learning a little before they jump off the cliff.

I am definitely not suggesting one should shorten the overall time frame, nor do I necessarily agree with everything they have done, however the Kuna's, Maxumm's and one or two others seem to have had a fairly positive and straight forward ride through. I don't think that comes down to sheer luck.

I/O

[Kuna]

I was gunna say, "Get your hand off it", but then I thought a little and concluded it must be her hand that is on it with a very firm grip if she has you uttering such statements.

 

I was thinking about that as I wrote it and decided ALL of us married guys MUST think we are married to "the most wonderful girl in the world" so colelctively we can all agree on a "dead heat" but privately we've gotta stick to what we know!   

[I/O]

but privately we've gotta stick to what we know!   

Yep, I'm sitting on the mountain whilst you are occupying a lower altitude. Ah well, I must leave this lofty position and descend to your level of the world................for a phriggen meeting. Oh and just to add insult to injury, I have to attend dinner at a (Gawd can I admit to this), French restaurant this evening.

I/O

[Kuna]

Yep, I'm sitting on the mountain whilst you are occupying a lower altitude. Ah well, I must leave this lofty position and descend to your level of the world................for a phriggen meeting. Oh and just to add insult to injury, I have to attend dinner at a (Gawd can I admit to this), French restaurant this evening.

I/O

It'll be nice for you to "come back to earth"...  but be careful of the arteries at that French restaurant!!!   

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas: I am far from the be all and end all on this subject and there is plenty of other opinions to solicit which may be of more value than mine, however, I am glad some of my experience is useful to you. Very glad.

I like the way you are approaching this in so far as, similar to BC, I see you don't appear hell bent on getting a "Marriage result" out of this and your comments indicate a similar approach to KenC when he first went to Russia. "Meeting a friend with possabilities".

I suggest you are on the right track with touristy options as a back up plan. I would add to my list, contact (Both email and telephone) with an agent. I would search out what public internet facilities might be available and an address. (May have access in your hotel if you stay in one) Between those three, you should be able to cover your bases in a knock down drag out situation. Frankly, I am no fan either of lining up a heap of hopeful ladies to meet. Others do it and do it well, but it is "Turret Gunner" style IMO and I am much more of a "Sniper" type. (Spend the time, stake out the quarry and don't miss)

I don't know how long you have been communicating with this lady (None of my business) however, I would be inclined to suggest you should be meeting inside 6 months of that time. Simply my opinion based on what I see as a danger of building up too much expectation.



I/O

I/O

Don't under estimate yourself. You've been very informative for me thus far. Prior to your last post to me and this one as well. There may be more experience I can draw on from you or others and I will welcome that also. I've never been there so I certainly don't know what to expect. I am however one of those types that can adapt generally pretty quick to my surroundings and do okay with strangers.

Your info on the back up plan is useful and I think I'll follow most of it. Perhaps being the tourist and shooting completely from the hip is not so sound of a plan. My usual days are generally planned to the minute so anytime I can find an opportunity to get off schedule I try to take advantage of it.

You and BC are correct as I am not on a marriage or wife finding mission. Internet introductions are great for contact but little else. There is only so much one can ascertain  through emails and phone conversations. I am convinced however that this lady is genuine and a truly really "cool person". Whether or not she is for me or me for her would be a coin flip. As a general rule I always try to keep my expectations from exceeding reality. Worse case scenerio I had an exciting vacation out of the norm and best case is I'll return for more.

 I don't mind telling you we've been in constant communication for 2 months. By the time I get there it will be a total of 6-7 months. Thats not from a purposely scheduled standpoint. Just her and my particular obligations. I have communicated with quite a few FSU women over the past 2 years. This is the first that I'll actually visit. While they were all attractive and interesting somewhere along the line there was a flagged raised. With this particular lady there have been no flags and really no reason not to go as soon as I can reasonably get there. Again, my expectations are remaining at a realistic level and to expect the unexpected.

I have gathered the back up plan advice which is good but thing thats been knawing at me is the time frame. Is it unrealistic to think 6-7 months is too long to wait?

[BillyB]

I find it very grueling writing to many, I can imagine how it might be to try and visit that many as well.

There's an old saying "The greater the risk, the greater the reward".

FAx Pas, your not risking much time and effort writing one than if you wrote many. Although there is a romantic side to WO if things work out in the end, most of the time in reality it doesn't work out and thus not very romantic. You're not cheating on a woman if there's no relationship so if you're feeling guilt by writing more than one, don't. Most women allow multiple men to contact them and they are sizing up every man on who's best for them. Thats a good thing! For someone who someday would be the most important person in your life, I would hope you'd put some grueling effort into finding her for your benefit. Some guys spend more time and effort when buying a car that's suits their needs than they do when searching for a partner for life. They don't have their priorities straight. Don't be one of those guys.

[jb]

Forgive me, but I'm still trying to figure out what a "Fax Pas" is.  Did you mean a "Faux Pas"?  A "Fox Paw"?  From the French to mean a false step, or a social blunder?  And what has that to do with FSUW?

Sandro, where are you when we really need you?