Wife using Russian language too much??

[thompsongunner06]

OK,,Might be me. She and her 23 yr old daughter alway talk in Russian,,on phone,when doing stuff around house. I sometimes feel like I'm left out or a 3 person or a bump on a log. I'm 45 so I cannot learn too much of it. I do know a few words. Do other guys get the same thing?? Also her daughter hangs on her like a little child. If we go for a walk or to the store the daughter is most always between us. They will hold hands or arms. I think the 23 yr old should act like an adult but is that a US thing,,I mean to cut the apron strings. When she is here from college its like a pair you cant separate. I understand they are the only "family" here in the US but it draws looks from some Americans.

[Serebro]

OK,,Might be me. She and her 23 yr old daughter alway talk in Russian,,on phone,when doing stuff around house. I sometimes feel like I'm left out or a 3 person or a bump on a log. I'm 45 so I cannot learn too much of it.

They have always spoken Russian with each other..
Do they know English well?!

Also her daughter hangs on her like a little child. If we go for a walk or to the store the daughter is most always between us. They will hold hands or arms. I think the 23 yr old should act like an adult but is that a US thing,,I mean to cut the apron strings. When she is here from college its like a pair you cant separate. I understand they are the only "family" here in the US but it draws looks from some Americans.

That is really surprising, why do looks from some americans bother you more than your wife's relationship with her daughter?!
I can see that you have been married not for such a long time, they used to be the closest people for each other, they moved abroad and their life has changed completely, let them feel comfortable.
I can understand the language thing but your last remark made me sad.

[BC]

Regarding language, I vote 'normalna' at 47 I'm still learning Russian and can only say that every little bit helps.

Regarding your wife's daughter, with our daughter still 13 and being at home can't give much input.

I do know however when my son is at home, we tend to spend as much time with each other as possible. At times, I can imagine my wife may feel a little 'left out'.

Women or men walking arm in arm doesn't raise many eyebrows here.  Is simply a sign of closeness.  It's a European thing.  I wouldn't be worried.

[alantodd]

Regarding learning Russian age does not matter.  I know I want to speak fluent Russian in fairness to my future wife who is learning English.  Even my 60 year old mother is learning Russian and speaks at basic level even with correct grammar.

30 minutes a day for 6 months and you will be speaking good.  At 2 year mark fluent.

[Jumper]

My wife doesn't use Russian much really..
and often says she dreams in english, or forgets some russian words anymore..

Not saying you should learn some Russian,
but at 45 you're still of sound mind , and can..

I'm younger, but not be much ..lol
and while i can not speak very well..
I can understand most of any conversation.

so you can learn.
It's up to you,if its worthwhile.

For me i found it both helpfiul, and interesting,and still study.
and it doesnt hurt that i do not feel like a third wheel in those situations you mention, as they will come uop in a cross cultural marriage.


As far as them speaking it with each other ,,
of course it would be more natural..

and of coutrse you iwould feelleft out of the converstation,,
maybe just remind them it makes you feel like a third wheel,
 and could they try to recognize that..by speaking in english when or if possible ..or by translating at least part of the converstation to include you..as thats also normal to do.

you did not say how fluent they are in english,,so if either one isnt,
of course they wouldl not be able to include you very well.
and do not take offence to it?

also on the phone ,no need to take offense as it is very natural they would speak in Russian to each other or to friends.


as far as holding hands or arms,
its more european..certainly nothing to worry over?
again a cross cultural marriage has a few compromises that arnt to big of deal..

as to thier closeness,,
Common you  married a RW !!!!!!!!!!
 They are generally VERY close to thier children.(a good thing!)

i hate making generalities ,,as everyone is an individual, but if one
generality could be made ..
it would be that eastern european mothers are very close,
 and often very protective, of thier children, and  well into adulthood.

what comes to mind when you think of a good polish mother?
its a big stereotype around her eanyway, that they are very VERY careing and dolting, even when thier children are into thier 40's lol..


I would not expect you wife to change at all on this subject,
so my advice is to appreciate it for its positives.
As it will not change.

might as well seperate a bear from its cubs, and much safer..

[Kuna]

I can appreciate how you might feel because I had 3 weeks of Mama and My Wife speaking in Russian and me sitting to the side only picking up pieces of the conversation.  In the beginning of mama's trip My Wife would translate almost everything - but by the end she was getting tired of it so if there was something I didn't understand I had to ask.

My approach (change of mind frame) was to appreciate being an observer and enjoying watching mother and daughter act and communicate in a natural way.



I sense that you are feeling left out and that would be a difficult feeling.  I think them speaking in Russian would just be more natural for them and I think if I and a son were living in Ukraine or Russia I would definitely revert to speaking English with him...  It's just easier that way.

As for walks and having the daughter in the middle... this is a difficult one.  Of course you want your wife on your arm but I wouldn't be worrying about what others think.  If it make you uncomfortable try to remember your wife has 2 arms.   



Out of interest... how long have you been married??? I assume things are fine when you and your wife are alone? 

I suspect they are just giving each other much emotional support even if it's happening subconsciously.

Good luck...

Kuna

[I/O]

Been through having MIL onboard for about 2 months and yes they spoke almost exclusively in Russian and I never found it a problem. Some I understood, much I didn't and it didn't worry me at all.

As for the arm in arm thing, I always ended up in the middle whether I wanted to be or not with a Russian woman on each arm. Neither of them are too shabby to look at so it kinda suited me just fine.  As for what others thought or sideways glances, care factor..........................zip.

I sense an insecurity thing here in the author and I think he needs to deal with that and deal with it quickly.

I/O

[Yozhik]

Don't you just hate it when Russian's speak Russian! 

OK, I will behave now.....sorry.

I personally don't think 45 is too old too learn to speak another language but it largely depends on how keen and motivated you are. It can be very frustrating at times rewarding at others.

As Kuna suggested, change your frame of mind to that of an interested observer. Additionally, if you do decide to learn to speak Russian, listening to it being spoken regularly is invaluable.

Cheers,
Yozhik

[SANDRO43]

AJ, why is it that your posts look like poetry ?

[Jet]

Sorry to say Gunner but I think it's you...
Being 43 myself I can kinda get where you are coming from, but as others have said, the ladies aare going to speak in the language that is most comfortable to them. Lil and Kolya (8yrs) speak almost exclusively Russian at home. Lil and I & Kolya and I speak almost exclusively English at home. Over the past four years, I've picked up a lot of the language just by being exposed to it and the benefit is that it is the real working language, not the textbook language. As a result, when Lil's Father (who speaks *zero* pa-angleeski) came over for three weeks last spring, I was not at all uncomfortable going out alone with him to do shopping, see sights, or whatever. Sure we had a few communication meltdowns and even had to call the wife for translation once, but we did OK. Further, Kolya is most definately a momma's boy! He doesn't get the "little prince" treatment, in fact, she's usually harder on him than I am. They share a special bond though, and I wouldn't want to break that up. Give it time and pay attention to those words that are used often in conversation. You'll start to understand a lot more than you think 

[Phil dAmore]

I sometimes feel like I'm left out or a 3 person or a bump on a log.

I know exactly what you mean.  When Nina gets around friends or family I might as well be invisible.

Also her daughter hangs on her like a little child. If we go for a walk or to the store the daughter is most always between us. They will hold hands or arms.

Get used to it because that will never change no matter how old the daughter gets.  Nina's daughter is 25 now, married and with a child of her own and those two are as tight as peas in a pod.  How close?  Nina has been known to get up in the middle of the night to go be at her daughter's side because the poor girl was upset over some thing or other.  On more than one occasion the girl has 'interrupted' me and Nina, if you know what I mean....  I've taken to unplugging the phone at night but forgot about Nina's mobile phone.  Like any Russian woman, Nina is never more than arm's length from that phone!

30 minutes a day for 6 months and you will be speaking good.  At 2 year mark fluent.

Maybe for some, or even for most.  But not for all.  It is a constant source of frustration for me that I have been unable to learn Russian beyond  the most basic conversational level despite living here almost 6 years.

I sense an insecurity thing here in the author and I think he needs to deal with that and deal with it quickly.

Insecurity?  Maybe.  More likely our OP is seeing first hand that blood is thicker than water.  I've said it before and I'll say it again:  It doesn't matter how much she loves you, she will always love her own children more. Always.  I deal with it every day.  Do I like it?  Not really but I accept it. 

[Jumper]

Sondro..
probably from too  many serious concussions,LOL
a good neurologist might have an idea,
but probaly not a concrete answer

Phil -
that cuts both ways?
I wont love my son somehow less,simply because  i remarried right?
and i would , no matter were we lived ,speak english with him , day to day
in the household. It's only natural, and not intended to leave anyone "out"

It is one of the issues of a cross cultural marriage,
and anyone on both sides of the equation,
 had best be ready for that to be part of it


If the  O'Poster was in the other shoes,,
i dont see the difference at all ,
other than perhaps the age of the child as the only extenuating factor.
(as in your case as well)
while it might be annoying,
that is also mostly a cultural thing, more than anything else?


both parties need to accept that there will be some compromises because of the different cultures and languages..

I know we've had compromises in this house on cultural things..
with my wife having to endure far more of the changes and compromises,
 simply by the fact we live in "my " culture.

while i've had to compromise and be understanding about some things,,
the overall scale is certainly tipped my way..just by location.
(in your case i'm sure its the opposite for much the same reason)


Not to knock the importance of the subject ,
as i understand it could get tiresome..
but in the bigger picture of things it seems pretty trivial to what the Original Poster's wife has had to compromise and adapt to?


in your case the shoe is indeed on the other foot, and nina should recognize
and appreciate, the amount you've had to adapt to in regular daily life..
and accept you speaking english to friends or family that visit..
 I'm sure it would be irritating if she did not..

just sayin'...........




it's been 6 years?
wow , i remember reading your posts before you relocated to sankt pete!

You know the worlds oldest man died in Ukraine last week? (116 i believe?)
in a past interview he said a key to his long life was that he was a bachelor..
and so actually still wanted to live.. LOL

 

[AnastassiaAsh]

These are all wrong justifications, I think. You should talk to your wife about this and explain to her openly how you feel. She should apologize and in her actions show you she understood. She and her daughter should talk only English in your presence and take you by your arm or hand too. This is absolutely not fair. They are here BECAUSE OF YOU and they should LOVE you not less than each other. Have they forgotten? But it is ok to talk in Russian with each other when they are alone without you.
Things that you guys mentioned are all good points and understandable but absolutely cannot be justifications for the man to be left out, in my book. This is so rude! More over, if you LOVE your husband, how can he be secondary or left out? Total crysis! 

[Phil dAmore]

that cuts both ways?

I wouldn't expect otherwise.  Quite the opposite in fact.  I would be suspect of a woman who would put aside her own flesh and blood for what amounts to a stranger. 

in your case the shoe is indeed on the other foot, and nina should recognize
and appreciate, the amount you've had to adapt to in regular daily life..
and accept you speaking english to friends or family that visit..
 I'm sure it would be irritating if she did not..

Recognition and appreciation of the blindingly obvious is not something I have seen Nina, nor any Russian ever exhibit in any great quantity.  I attribute this to cultural differences because it keeps me from thinking about how incredibly rude they can be sometimes....

it's been 6 years?
wow , i remember reading your posts before you relocated to sankt pete!

It will be 6 years in March.  I've been involved in this whole RW thing since '99 back on the old-old RWG.  I believe I was member number 38.

[Daveman]

You know the worlds oldest man died in Ukraine last week? (116 i believe?)
in a past interview he said a key to his long life was that he was a bachelor..
and so actually still wanted to live.. LOL

That's hilarious.. what a great line. 


I refrained from posting in this thread because first, I know enough about RW's to fill less than a thimble, and secondly, there are many behaviors in RW's I think are completely rude and I am still learning which of these are real and which are the product of culture and my own imagination...

I think Nastya is spot on.  While perhaps no one else will consider this to be rude, I think at the very least to make your partner feel like a third wheel is extremely inconsiderate.  Speaking Russian is one thing, but ignoring your partner while he's present is something else entirely.  I would tolerate this exclusion (the language is fine, the exclusion is not) for less than a nanosecond... and maybe that's exactly why I am still single. 

Dave

[Jumper]

Phil said

Recognition and appreciation of the blindingly obvious is not something I have seen Nina, nor any Russian ever exhibit in any great quantity.  I attribute this to cultural differences because it keeps me from thinking about how incredibly rude they can be sometimes....

LOL completely understand!
and i guess i'm lucky,
while i have seen the same cultural traits that would give the impression Russians are generally taken as you describe by westerners....
 
In my own case ,my wife is very conciuous of those type of things..and very appreciative.She can be incredibly blunt at times no doubt..LOL
but in general does very much go out of her way to recognize various sacrifices I have made to make our situation work ,or be better.

on topic of language..
i do agree it rude to leave someone out,,
and suggested before the OP speak up about the trouble and
have the two RW  recognize it as an issue, and hopefully translate some of it to include him.


I was mostly *trying on the other pair of shoes*..
and if i was living with my wife in Ukraine, i would speak to my boy  in english , and likely tire of translating..each bit of daily conversation ,
 and only do the highlights..

i do think thats different than *exclusion*..
but just pointing out it would likely be the daily reality..

[Taz]

These are all wrong justifications, I think. You should talk to your wife about this and explain to her openly how you feel. She should apologize and in her actions show you she understood. She and her daughter should talk only English in your presence and take you by your arm or hand too. This is absolutely not fair. They are here BECAUSE OF YOU and they should LOVE you not less than each other. Have they forgotten? But it is ok to talk in Russian with each other when they are alone without you.
Things that you guys mentioned are all good points and understandable but absolutely cannot be justifications for the man to be left out, in my book. This is so rude! More over, if you LOVE your husband, how can he be secondary or left out? Total crysis! 

I think Anastassia has the perspective that I would. I lived in a situation similar to this for a long time. My ex and her parents spoke fluent Spanish and I spoke pretty good Spanish as well. We were living with her parents while our new house was being built. The problem for me was that the family had lived together for so long, they often wouldn't finish words and they spoke a different dialect than I was used to. They all could speak fluent English as well but the only time they would speak English is when her sister would come home with her boyfriend who could only speak English. Then the entire family would speak English.

I am not an insecure man but after a while it really started to bother me. I felt totally disrespected. I was always the outsider in this situation. It was obvious to me by their actions. If this woman ISN'T including you, and her daughter is between you and her, you are definitely a lower priority then her daughter.

Quite honestly she should show you more respect. You should speak with her about calmly and explain your feelings. Maybe she isn't aware of them. If you express your concerns and she ignores them, then you know where you stand with her. I experienced this mother daughter/bond in a relationship with a Russian woman and her daughter. Her daughter treated me like total garbage and no matter what I tried to do to improve the situation, I got little or no help from the woman. Suffice to say we are no longer together. In this situation I was basically told it didn't matter what I thought, she would raise her child how she wanted. It didn't matter if her child was rude, threatening, a bitch to me, etc. but I should just deal with it as it was HER daughter and NOT mine.

[Lily]

I felt totally disrespected. I was always the outsider in this situation. It was obvious to me by their actions. If this woman ISN'T including you, and her daughter is between you and her, you are definitely a lower priority then her daughter.
 

I second this idea. As a kid, I have been taught that it is disrespectfull in a social setting to talk in a foreign language that at least one person in the company does not understand.

But here we don't even have a social setting. This is husband and wife, while the latter made a lingustic barrier between herself and her husband.
 

[Taz]

I think it is more than a linguistic barrier. It is indicative of an emotional one as well. The daughter and wife exclude the husband. They do it physically, linguistically and emotionally. He has no idea what they are talking about either. It is quite interesting to listen to Russian conversations when they don't know anyone is understanding what they say. Quite amazing what you might hear...

[Phil dAmore]

You know the worlds oldest man died in Ukraine last week? (116 i believe?)
in a past interview he said a key to his long life was that he was a bachelor..
and so actually still wanted to live.. LOL

I realize that the entire point of this boards existence is to help men find their brides, but that doesn't keep me from stating the following:

Statistics show that married men live longer than single men.

I maintain that it just seems longer.

[GalinaF]

OK,,Might be me. She and her 23 yr old daughter alway talk in Russian,,on phone,when doing stuff around house. I sometimes feel like I'm left out or a 3 person or a bump on a log. I'm 45 so I cannot learn too much of it. I do know a few words. Do other guys get the same thing??

My daughter is a 22-year old and we always speak Russian on the phone. A phone conversation is between the two of us; if there is something that I would like to share with my husband, I’d tell him later. When my daughter comes over to stay with us for a couple of days, my daughter and I speak both languages. It depends on the topic – small things we discuss in Russian; something that is a common interest we discuss in English altogether. I think that my husband is completely indifferent to our Russian conversations, and it’s a bit strange from a woman’s point of view. If I were him, I would try to learn Russian just to understand what my spouse says about me.

The last time the three of us went shopping together, my daughter was with my husband all the time – my daughter was buying a laptop. I was left on my own watching big screen TVs in different Best Buys, Comp USAs, etc. Yes, I wanted to be excluded – I have a completely different approach to buying things than my dear daughter has, so it was fine with me.

[thompsongunner06]

These are all wrong justifications, I think. You should talk to your wife about this and explain to her openly how you feel. She should apologize and in her actions show you she understood. She and her daughter should talk only English in your presence and take you by your arm or hand too. This is absolutely not fair. They are here BECAUSE OF YOU and they should LOVE you not less than each other. Have they forgotten? But it is OK to talk in Russian with each other when they are alone without you.
Things that you guys mentioned are all good points and understandable but absolutely cannot be justifications for the man to be left out, in my book. This is so rude! More over, if you LOVE your husband, how can he be secondary or left out? Total crysis! 

Thank you for understanding. They both know English VERY well. When we two are together its all English. When 2 or more of the girls get together the guys might as well go watch football,,oh we cant because the girls have Russian shows on the TV. I just think that since they all know English they should keep everyone in the conversations. If its just the girls then any language they talk is OK. Now the arm holding is OK with me,,and I know family is everything. If my wife goes to the bathroom her daughter goes in to talk with her,,same with showers. I'm sorry but I dint go in when my son or daughter are in the bathroom and I do love them too. I understand it a different culture but after 5 yrs it would be a little less. I let my wife go on a Italian cruise with her daughter because 1, I dint care to walk around the old buildings and being given POOR service(she even said so) by food stores. 2, Her daughter would be like a pea in a pod to her mother so I might as well stay at home.3 no PRIVACY on the ship with a 3rd person(daughter or me) in the same room. BTW they had a great time(except waiters in Italy),wore out some walking shoes and took over 800 pictures.We plan on doing a WARM tropical cruise just the 2 of us. I have picked up some Russian words and phrases but I am having trouble keeping stuff in my head,,need some Ginkgo or something for memory! LOL. I think some American folks think they(wife/daughter) are gay if they dint know they are from Russia. When I was in Russia a few times I dint recall seeing mother's and 25 yr old daughters walking arm in arm(unless crossing a BUSY road or mom was having a hard time walking). When we are at our family events we always include them in any conversation. I also think that if they wanted to move and live here they would use English more and more,and I dont get watching Russian TV,,Its like Benny Hill to me. Funny music and slap stick looking  .
I was just asking if other guys had the same thing happen to them.

[Serebro]

I second this idea. As a kid, I have been taught that it is disrespectfull in a social setting to talk in a foreign language that at least one person in the company does not understand.

I have been taught that, too.
But in my every day life I have to feel like the author if this thread from time to time.I live in a republic where half of the population speaks Russian and another half speaks Russian and Tatar.I personally know people who don't know Russian at all, but they live in small villages.I have many Tatar friends, and my best friend is a Tatar girl.We became friends when we were students, now she works in a firm where all people are Tatars and they speak Tatar only when they are together. From time to time she invites me to her parties where her collegues come and it's the hell to sit for 6 hours' time in the company of people speaking Tatar language only(though they know Russian well), I do speak it, but it's not that good.
I know about the rule mentioned above by Lily but at the same time I am not angry with them and I don't consider this to be their problem and their mistake and their being rude. They came here to have fun and to speak the language they speak every day at home and at work and relax and it's not their fault that I don't know it.
In other words, I have never seen that as their problem but rather as my problem:learn Tatar or visit Russian parties only if you don't like Tatar ones.


So my advice to the author is to stop blaming them on speaking their own language. Why to marry a Russian if you don't like her speaking Russian with her relatives.

[sudz]

I'm always one who tries first to understand another person's motivations before I come to a conclusion about whether or not an action is intended to be harmful (even if I personally feel hurt).  In this case perhaps your wife and step-daughter are trying to preserve their Russian heritage in a strange land, a way to lessen home-sickness, providing an incentive for you to learn Russian, or maybe it's just easier for them and they feel its more relaxing (they are at home, after all).

Not that any one of the provided excuses justifies exclusionary behavior - just that the first step in solving a relationship issue is to understand where the cause lies.

Having over-qualified my position, though, I have to say this:  what they are doing is the equivalent to whispering into each other's ear in your presence.  In both cases they know you are being excluded.

I would try to find out why they are doing this and present your view (please use my metaphor as I think it apt, especially for anyone who hasn't been on the receiving end of this behavior).  I think you can then judge the relative merits of both positions and try to find alternative behavior - including you promising to study Russian if that's what it takes - but get some give from their side as well.

One last thing - the most likely response if you ask them why they do it is "we've never thought about why we do it - we just do it".  You may want to point out to them that not thinking about you when you're in their company isn't a stellar comment on their social skills.

Anyway, I want to point out that I'm not married into a Russian family but I have been in this position before with some Spanish speaking friends.

Hope you find a happy solution,
- Sudz

[MaxxumUSA]

OH MY LORD!!!  I cannot believe what I am reading.  Sorry boys and girls...  I think I have a completely different take.

Let me give you a different perspective.

Before that...  I will digress and say that I spent some time in Russia - two months total this year - and the one thing that is different there is that the women DO walk arm in arm.  Friends, mother/daughter, etc.  Matter of fact in Samara during the summer it is actually pretty hot.  I think it's just fine.

Now for my different perspective...  Simply put I am secure in my manhood and secure in my relationship with my wife.  When she speaks russian with her russian friends and family when I am around...  It bothers me ZERO.  I'm not saying I'm totally uninterested in what she is saying...  but rather I think it's a pain for her to translate everything and talk in english when her native tounge is easier.

When we're in Russia and she talks with her girlfriends I certainly don't need to be in on most of those conversations.  Put simply it's GIRL talk.  Them talking in russian is a blessing to me.  This gives me an excuse to NOT be involved in girl talk.

I'm thinking of all the AW girlfriends I have had.  When they get together with friends they want to catch up and such.  In a general way their conversation is simply not that interesting to me.

Don't get me wrong...  I love my wife with all my heart.  We spend most all of our time together.  But when she finally has a chance to connect with someone I'm happy for her that she can express herself freely without worry that I feel left out, because I don't feel that.  I know that she loves me and that we will be sleeping in the same bed later.  No biggy.

So I guess in conclusion I perceive that if an american man has these feelings of being left out from his russian wife there then there are some insecurities in play.  These are either justified or not.  Being justified might be if the woman has the wrong intentions in the marriage and is covertly trying to plan something or purposely excluding the husband.  Not being justified is if the man has security issues and his sense of self is threatened by not being involved or in control of a situation.

just my take.

- Dave