Suggested Income Level

[trev01us]

I'm new to the site although i have been reading the forums for a few weeks.  There is one question that I haven't run across yet or hasn't been asked yet.

I'm a 35 year old average looking guy has a decent salary, who to this point for various reasons hasn't been married or had any children yet.  I'm fully aware of the fact that communicating with or trips to the ladies in the FSU can be costly.  The question I have is what would the more experienced members suggest as a suggested minimal income for considering a possible FSU bride.  It's not like i can't find a lady in the US who wants to get married.  However finding one without children who actually might want a child or more children is a completely different issue.

I've posted my profile on one site in particular due to it's reputation Elana's Models.  I've actually had a few FSU ladies who want to chat/talk already.  I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth my time to pay for the more advanced subscriptions or if I'm just wasting my time. 

Second question from what I've read hear and other sites is that the FSU ladies are more Family oriented then say AW.

trev01us

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Ravens9273]

I personally do not feel there is a real answer to this question because everybody is different. Everyone takes a different approach to finding a FSU bride.
I personally wrote to one lady and met one lady and am engaged to one lady.
Others choose to write to many ladies and narrow their options down. There is no wrong way or right way. However obviously one costs more then the other.
You have a bonus in the fact you are 35 and never married. It also depends on what you are looking for. During my time in Odessa I met an American man who has spent 10 years and several $100,000 on his search. However he was 54 looking for a lady 22-24. Obviously this will create obstacles for him since most do not prefer such an age difference.
With traveling cost can also vary depending on where you decide to travel too and for how long. Different locations bare different costs.
If you make a decent salary and know you can provide a comfortable home for a future wife then I would say do not worry about it. You have to do what is right for you and only you can say what is right for you.

Personally I think this is something not to worry about. Do not let money be the factor standing in your way for happiness.

[2tallbill]

Trev, It's been discussed a number of times (how much salary / income)

I am sure somebody can't find a link. The answer I think is it varies.

$80K in Des Moines is different than $80K in San Francisco If you have $180K in income and 150K in expenses than you
are more poor than someone with $80K in income with 20K in expenses.

In my opinion you will need $10K to 20K a year to spend on this process.

Good luck,

Bill

[BC]

Check out the RWD FAQ.

This venture and subsequent adjustment period (assuming you find your lady) can be quite stressful. Financial difficulties resulting from this venture are not uncommon, sometimes breaking the camel's back.

Whatever you do, don't go into, or further into debt chasing ladies halfway around the world.

Gamble responsibly.
 

[Todd]

A great deal depends on where you will be visiting.  Moscow and St. Petersburg are in the top 5 most expensive cities in the
world at the moment.  I stayed at the Aurora Marriot when I was in Moscow for 10 days, but I couldn't have afforded it without using Marriot points.  

I think 2tallbill's estimate of $10 to $20 K a year is a fair estimate.  However, just don't forget that you should add a year to the back end once your lady arrives in the US.  She will have to start from ground zero.  Depending on where you live, she will likely need a car, several months of support to orient herself, and the hundreds of one time small costs that add up after a while.

Bottom line, most couples have enough stresses without also having to worry about money.

Todd

[2tallbill]

Todd's correct, you will have things on the backend like,

Driving lessons, a car (and car insurance), Health insurance, English lessons, possible dental work, a new bed
because you need a "virgin bed", and sheets, she will want to change things and make your home a home, your
works of art "dogs playing cards" on velvet will not survive this transition. At least one trip home per year, various
outings learning about your area, some new wardrobe additions for both of you (she might not like your jeans for example)

I think an additional $10K - $20K per year forever might be a better figure to use.

Good luck!


Bill

[I/O]

Trev: Welcome to RWD. Your subject question is one that has been danced all around here for ages and most people are not prepared to try to define a number too tightly. I don't think income level is the key, but disposable income is more relevant. That said, I think you require funds over and above any of those if you are going to do this easily.

My view is that it is (As a guide) if all goes well for you, a 18 month to 3 year process. (Can be shorter if you get lucky and can be very much longer) The FAQ section is well worth reading as there is a sub section dedicated to this subject. As a guide (BTW I have never really added it up as such) I commenced communications with my my now wife in the early to mid part of '05 (after a few trips around and about) and we have now been married a couple of months. Go to woe it would be in the vicinity of $35k USD at a guess, maybe more.

Now married, it is a whole 'nother set of numbers. (I've been married before and had an idea of ongoing expenses) You need to understand that being married to a local woman is a whole lot cheaper than being married to someone from another country. Again, at a guess, I reckon you can tack 30% on top of normal weekly marital expenses, at least for some time, if she is from another country.

Then later, there will be trips back home and so forth. I see guys who have maybe $5K in the bank, maybe a home and some debt also start this process and frankly I think they are mad. You will need the financial wherewithall to give your lady a fairly soft landing when she arrives. This is not a "Poor Man's" sport.

I/O

[Turboguy]

I am in the midst of all the "after she arrives" expenses right now.   I have to say that I probably have the most frugal RW in history so my expenses may be less than some but I think 2tall nailed it in my opinion when he said $ 10-20 grand forever, that is assuming you don't have kids.

I am just under the 3 month mark since she arrived and just under the two week mark since we married.   There are always things that cost money.   Today will be the check for a grand and a ten spot to apply for AOS.  Yesterday was a trip to the civil surgeon to get her vaccination record updated (along with 8 hours of after Christmas shopping)  In a few days it will be time to send a little back home to help her mom. 

Cheap it ain't.   Wonderful, yes that it might be.   Worth it, sure.  There is a big difference in the idea of the life they want among the RW.   You might be able to make it on a budget but if you end up with one who has watched too much TV and has too high an expectation of the life she will lead she will run you into the poor house. 

[Shadow]

Trev, I have once mentioned that finding a RW is like buying a Rolls Royce. If you have to ask for the price, chances are you can not afford it.
If you can support a family in the US without your wife needing to have a job to pay the bills, you can support a RW. All you need to add is money for one or two trips to Russia once you are married, and at least three trips before that. Add to that the cost of writing, calling and some gifts. But you can save it from nights on the town in bars chasing the local women.

But remember that it is not about money. If you find love, it will conquer.

[jb]

I have already contributed to this topic somewhat in the FAQ section, so there is very little more that I can add.  Shadow's analogy of buying the Rolls is a good one, especially if you are used to dating second hand Fords, (AWs).   

Trev, do not be confused by the smallness of the official income requirements to file for a K-1 visa, i.e., 25% above the National Poverty Guidelines.  Those numbers generally reflect the Government experience with Third World immigrants.   It is probably true that a man from a third world country, such as Mexico, and parts of southeast Asia, can import a woman of his own nationality and together they can live on those numbers.  For many of those women that would be a big step up in the world, but it would be a huge step down for the average RW.

That said,,, you are single, no children to support, hopefully are pretty much debt free, and you said you have a "decent salary".  I don't know where you live or what you consider a decent salary to be, but if you can reasonably support yourself and can afford to make the trips over to the FSU I wouldn't count you out.  However, you will need to educate yourself about this venture carefully.  There are many pitfalls to be avoided along this slippery path.

Good luck.

[KenC]

Trev,
You have already received the best advice to check out the FAQ section as this topic was fully explored by jb.  That being said, there is no right or wrong answer for the minimum necessary.  I have seen guys do this on a budget and othersthrow money around like drunken sailors.  I can tell you that the less money you have to throw at this venture, the longer time you should take to complete it. 

Let me explain.  If you can only afford (time & money) to travel to the fsu once a year, it may take 2 to 4 years to complete, if you are lucky enough to find someone special early on.  More trips, more face time, the better you will know the woman before you take the chance.

It also depends upon how smart you are too.  There are guys here that have been "at it" for over ten years and have probably spent $100's of thousands to accomplish what some have in a year with a lot less spent.

Another factor to be considered, is your lifestyle.  My first trip was pulled off for about $2,500.  I stayed in a dumpy flat in a secondary city (Not Moscow or St Pete).  I traveled in the winter, so I had low airfares.  My second trip was much more expensive as I went in spring and stayed at the Aurora Marriott in Moscow for $300/$400 night.  Pick your poison.
KenC

[docetae]

Another factor  you must not forget is time, if you have just 2 weeks of holidays per year, forget it. 4 weeks seems to me a minimum.

[Turboguy]

Trev,   You asked about membership plans at Elena's.   Most of the guys I have talked to have been very happy with Elena's.   It is also the site I used to find my wife.     When I have heard complaints is is usually someone with a free membership.   I had the platinum membership and liked it.   Once you do it you can re-do your platinum membership for the same price as a silver one.   I would suggest you get at least the silver membership.

When I was a member I would get a newsletter each week with the new ladies.  That was where I had my best luck and would try to get a letter off to the ones who appealed to me as soon as I could after receiving it.   My worst results were with the list they sent each week of ladies who were not getting letters.   I think many of them were not getting letters because they had found their man and were not interested.   All in all I would have no hesitation recommending Elena's to anyone.   It is not perfect but it does work and is a good value.

[beachcomber556]

The old song "Money Money Money"  comes to mind.  Champagne tastes on an Old Milwaukee budget??  Think about this long and hard my friend.  A decent income is your opinion.  If decent is $10K a month disposable, upscale house in upscale neighborhood paid for, her own new car paid for, and we are talking Lexus, not a Hyundai or Kia -- and you have rock solid income security come what may ---- you might be in luck.  Gold Diggars???? No, but Russian women who are entertaining the idea of marrying a Western man do have expensive tastes.  And don't be shocked to learn that your beautiful Russian bride keeps secret communications with one or two other would-be Romeos in case she needs a Plan B.  They look out for Number 1, no matter what.  Do I sound cynical??  It is what it is.  I can only share my own experience.

[Daveman]

Yep, and even if you take the $2500 route, you have to look at the trip as nothing more than a date. An expensive "dinner and a movie" to get to know a girl.  She doesn't owe you anything and looks at you as any other man she might consider for a relationship and might kick you to the curb without remorse (unless of course, she thinks another RW is interested in you, in which case she might fight tooth and nail to keep you - even if she doesn't like you... but that's a whole 'nother one of a billion issues for other topics). If she doesn't like you, or you don't like her, just say good bye and move along - never think about the money you've wasted - if you can't afford to waste it, don't do it. So YOU always have a plan B and C and D as well to lower your risk of a wasted trip.  Know what you'll do ahead of time - in case.

Dave

[trev01us]

Daveman stated have a plan b, c, d

I'm presuming your referring to woman b, c, d just in case woman A turns out not to be the one.  I've heard 2 different sides to this, some people like yourself, if I'm understanding you correctly say it's a very good idea to have these backup women for just in case.  The other side is that if you go over their with the intentions of meeting 3 or 4 different women you aren't actually giving any of them a fair chance because your always thinking about the next lady you will see in a day or too.  What are peoples opinions?


To everyone who responded.

I would like to thank everyone for there responses, whether it be opinion, fact, general experience whether good or bad.  From what i've read it seems to me the only issue I might have is vacation time and maybe length of time(what i mean by this is i don't want to be 60 and have a 5 year old kid).


As docetae stated 4 week minimum vacation.  But then again that might not be an issue who knows.  I might be one of those lucky ones.  Then again I might not and spend 10 years looking.

I will take every bodies information/experience and use it as a learning experience.

Trev

[Shadow]

Trev, the thing is not to leave your habits at home but take them with you. Did you ever date more than one woman in a casual way ? Then follow the same route in the FSU. Did you feel more comfortable dating one at a time ? Then do the same.
But remember that there is a difference between writing and dating. Until you decide to make whom to visit first, start out by writing as many profiles as you like. Then let the ones you have no connection at all with fade away, and make a decision on how and when to plan the visit. Do not forget to ask phone numbers and call.
But remember that until you meet face to face, you have nothing more than a penpal.
Do not let time press you. When you make the wrong decision, it will cost you more.

[Daveman]

Daveman stated have a plan b, c, d

I'm presuming your referring to woman b, c, d just in case woman A turns out not to be the one.

Not necessarily... I strongly advocate knowing what *YOU* will do next in case you're thrown a curve.  For some guys, that would be having exact women lined up.. for others it could be carrying the local contact information of agencies in the city to meet new ladies on short notice...  ultimately, you secondary plans will entail an approach with which YOU are comfortable... whatever that is, just make sure you have it.  It would be a major downer to be on your second or third day of a trip, in a city where you probably can't communicate easily with anyone, not knowing what the hell you're going to do for the rest of a week or two. 

And even then... don't think about the money -= it is what it is, it costs what it costs, and that's just how it is..    Time on the ground there is priceless, however you slice it.

Dave

Edit: ooops, Shadow beat me to it.. sound advice

[I/O]

Daveman stated have a plan b, c, d

I've heard 2 different sides to this, some people like yourself, if I'm understanding you correctly say it's a very good idea to have these backup women for just in case.  The other side is that if you go over their with the intentions of meeting 3 or 4 different women you aren't actually giving any of them a fair chance because your always thinking about the next lady you will see in a day or too.  What are peoples opinions?

LOL, this thread started off discussing one set of numbers and it is now sure to turn to another set of numbers. RWDGrasshopperTrev, listen up and listen good, if you want a 30 page thread, just throw in VO or VM (Visit one or visit many) and you'll have 'em yelling from the rafters in short order.

Personally I have fairly strong views on this one and they very much favour singling out one woman and spending the time to figure her out, BUT many others see it differently. I think Shadow has given you the best advice you will get on this one, Do what you do do well boy. In other words, stick with what you know works for you at home and you wont get out of your depth.

BTW if you are no good with women at home, don't bother going this route because you'll get slaughtered.

I/O

[Turboguy]

I probably spent more money than most and took more time finding the right woman than most.   There are guys who visited one woman and she turned out to be the right woman but from first hand experience I will always believe that until you have met face to face you are only pen pals and you can be totally convinced you have the right woman and totally bomb out when you meet.

My first few years I made a trip about every two years and it is virtually a waste doing that.   Yes, if one of my early trips had turned up the right one I would have traveled as much as I needed to.   You just really need to make it a top priority in your life and to go as much as you can or as much as you need to in order to get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. 

I am not sure I agree with Beachcomber that you need to drive a Lexus and live in an upscale house.   I have never even had a ride in a Lexus and my house is certainly not upscale.   It is not cheap by any means.   I have seen guys with an average income do just fine but you really do need to be able to commit $ 10,000 to $ 15,000 a year to it.

[KenC]

Daveman stated have a plan b, c, d

I'm presuming your referring to woman b, c, d just in case woman A turns out not to be the one.  I've heard 2 different sides to this, some people like yourself, if I'm understanding you correctly say it's a very good idea to have these backup women for just in case.  The other side is that if you go over their with the intentions of meeting 3 or 4 different women you aren't actually giving any of them a fair chance because your always thinking about the next lady you will see in a day or too.  What are peoples opinions?

Trev

Trev,
Giving them a "fair chance" at what?  Getting to meet you?  The initial trip should be little more than a "meet & greet" and to see if there is any posibility for building a relationship going forward.  Think of it as International speed dating.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Trev, In my early days I did what you are talking about a few times.  I was convinced the 3rd gal on my trip was going to be the one and did not pay enough attention to one of the early ones who was actually a good candidate.   Then when I met that 3rd one it was a total bomb.   If you are going to meet several women, keep your mind and your options open.   Ken is right.  The first trip is to see if there is potential.   Spending a few days with a gal and coming back with K-1 paperwork filled out is not a victory, it is a loss.

[alantodd]

Trev,

If you notice that Turbo and Ken have pictures of their wives next to them.  I would take their advice.  I would also tell you for first trip do not worry about writing letters.  Just show up and meet several women.  There are thousands of women so your not going to be sitting around waiting for dates.

[Gator]

KenC,

The initial trip should be little more than a "meet & greet" and to see if there is any possibility for building a relationship going forward.  Think of it as International speed dating.

Somewhat similar to my way, except that I tended to spend 2-3 days with one woman in one city and then move to another city.   Rarely was a woman as I expected.  Some were disappointments, others were splendid women but there was little chemistry, and some women blew my mind.  You never can tell who is in that last category.

While you may find yourself thinking about the next woman, if you are with a great woman I guarantee that the only thoughts will be whether and how to cancel the next woman.

Nevertheless, trev, if WMVM makes you uncomfortable, then don't do it.  Just have a backup plan.  Of the women I met after writing letters and calling them enough to feel good about meeting them,  I would say only 20% would be considered possible wife material.  I am very particular, so my probability is perhaps lower than it will be for you.  Nevertheless, there is a chance that you will be disappointed in the woman you meet (or she is not interested in further meetings with you - that happened to me a few times).

The goal is to find someone worthy of taking the risk of spending a week together.  I firmly believe that this decision can be made only after meeting a woman.  So my policy is first trip WMVM, second trip WOVO.

It will eventually come out that you are meeting other women.  Do not lie if they ask, just never volunteer.  Some women will not like that fact and they may terminate correspondence with you.  If that happens, remember that there are many women who also require a meeting before making big plans.

Regarding money, the number one reason for failure of new businesses is undercapitalization.  The same is likely true for RW romances.  A man may be able to find and marry a woman quickly within a limited budget, yet he will not know her and must depend in large part on luck, determination, work and his ability to satisfy women.    Spend whatever it takes to know your woman.

[Eduard]

The old song "Money Money Money"  comes to mind.  Champagne tastes on an Old Milwaukee budget??  Think about this long and hard my friend.  A decent income is your opinion.  If decent is $10K a month disposable, upscale house in upscale neighborhood paid for, her own new car paid for, and we are talking Lexus, not a Hyundai or Kia -- and you have rock solid income security come what may ---- you might be in luck.  Gold Diggars???? No, but Russian women who are entertaining the idea of marrying a Western man do have expensive tastes.  And don't be shocked to learn that your beautiful Russian bride keeps secret communications with one or two other would-be Romeos in case she needs a Plan B.  They look out for Number 1, no matter what.  Do I sound cynical??  It is what it is.  I can only share my own experience.

I couldn't agree and...disagree with you more! I absolutely agree that most women who made a concious decision to find a foreign man to marry will expect the best, the most expensive and in many cases if you can't or won't give them what they want, they will find a guy who will and move on to "bigger and better" things. There are some exceptions to this rule but that's what they are - exceptions
Luckily for us these women are a tiny percentage of available single FSU women. Many women won't consider advertising at all, believing that if it's meant for them to meet someone it will happen on it's own. But a vast majority of single women who will advertise will advertise on local Russian sites, and will look for a local man, not a foreigner. You can find some true jems. A mambo network would be a goot place to start. There are close to 2 million women there who you can contact directly. many women have some knowledge of english but i strongly suggest that you learn enough Russian to at least be able to read a woman's profile and unterstand weather she is looking for marriage and family or an occasional threesome with her and her boyfriend and only looking for a girl. yes there are all kinds of ads there, hookers and alternative lifestyles included! So you better learn some russian at least to be successful on Russian sites. Another thing to consider that they are free...
I've looked through some posts in  this thread and some of the numbers seem astronomical to me...particularly after you are married! I suppose that if you find a high maintanence Russian bride it is possible that you will have to spend 20K a year on you wife, but personally I did everything I could not to marry a woman like that. I married a woman who was very hard working, down to earth with great family values. She is absolutely non-materialistic and is content with what we have. The only things she does demand is all the best for our baby, which is what I want anyway. Like you, I'm not rich, but not poor either...your average middle class Russian/American

Now in regard to expences to find and bring a girl here:
I realise that being a native Russian speaker and having family and friends in Russia I didn't spend as much as you probably will but here is the breakdown of my expences:
1. searching and getting to know stage - free for me but it probably will cost you one to two grand weather you go through an agency or use a translator to help you communicate with girls that you can meet through free russian sites.
2. I spent about $30 a months on phone calls to Russia. It's cheap if you use phone cards.
Also I did a lot of chatting on both ICQ and MSN messenger which was also free. Skype is a great way to go too. Just tell your girl to download Skype and you can have videoconference  calls with her for free! Someone mentioned earlier that his wife spends quite a bit on phone calls to Russia. My wife has videoconferences with her parents whenever she wants to for free through Skype. Something to consider...
3. I spent about $3000 for air tickets for the 2 trips i made to Russia to spend time with my girl. That's including a $160 for a visa. I paid a little  more for my visa because i prefer to get it through the travel agency I use. I think you can get it for a $100 directly from Russian Consulate.
In Moscow I stayed for free with my dad (who tragically passed away since then) the first time and the second time I already stayed with my wife. You should expect to spend anywhere from $75 to 500 a night. I prefer to stay away from pricy hotels and stay in very nice apartments for about 75 a night.
4.Upon my return from trip number 2, I filed for the fiance visa. I can't remember the exact number it was, but they raised it since then and now I belive that you'll spend just under a grand.
5. Once my wife had her interview and recieved a US visa I bought her the ticket from Moscow to JFK where i drove to meet her. (Another $1,200)
6. As far as i remember the only other fee was for certifying her innoculations $125

I tought her how to drive and she passed the test on the first try. She took free english classes at a local community college for about 6 months, then we decided that since we only speak russian at home she should actually take college level english to become fluent, which did cost us about 2K for a year at the community college.
other than health insurance which wasn't that much since she was only 25 when we got married there were hardly any expences.
Now having a baby is a whole other issue, but you will have this expence weather you marry a russian woman or american woman - no difference.
you should expect to spend in the area of 10-15K at the most if you do this right.
If I were you I would mainly focus on finding a down to earth woman with good family values, and believe me they are out there! Also I think that having a back up plan is a great idea!
Hope this helps...
Ed