Suggested Income Level

[Lily]

  No, but Russian women who are entertaining the idea of marrying a Western man do have expensive tastes.  

I would not say that our tastes are expensive, but some RW know how and where to get best values for the best (not saying top dollars!) price 

[Lily]

In fact I have been wondering reading this thread..do you apparently mean the income of the AM? How about the income of a RW, wouldn't it be taken into account during visits and meetings?

Could a RW occasionally undertake some part of those expenses to ease the financial burden of the AM? if yes, what could her contribution be?

[Taz]

Wow Lily, I like your style!

I also like to think about the old adage "If you have to ask, you can't afford it!"

Don't forget also "You can't hurry love."

So what does all this mean. If you try and be too economical, it will likely bit you in the end. If you need to make repeated trips to be sure, then it is the best policy regardless of the cost. Or you can do like my friend JD has done and spent about $40,000 so far and still not be married.

For me the cost isn't important, happiness is! I also agree with Lily, don't worry about writing a lot before you go. I don't think I have ever written before I went except one time where I had a penpal. She was married so I wasn't going to meet her as a romantic interest but just as a friend.

I think writing should really take place after you have met. I've seen sooooooooo many relationships die on the first meeting it is almost a joke. To many variables must fall into place to really make long, in depth writing a viable option PRIOR to meeting. Who knows, you could actually be corresponding with Fat Yuri rather than really sweet Svetlana. How can you be sure?

Oh yeah, one last piece of advice. No RW likes stingy men! So don't count your kopeks every chance you get. Don't overpay but don't sweat the small stuff. Keep in mind that it will likely cost more than you planned. As a result, I never plan.  I just go and have a good vacation. If I meet someone wonderful then I'll be more than happy to get to know her better.

[BC]

Lily,

I don't think one should expect a woman to support this venture.  If she has disposable financial resources and wishes to then fine.

I do think that a woman should 'cover her back' if she has resources and / or property back home.

Financial difficulties is sadly one of the top relationship breakers regardless of nationality - usually the straw that broke the camels back.

'for richer, for poorer' doesn't seem to count anymore.  Remember that these marriage vows were first written quite long ago, maybe at a time where there may have been little or no choice anyway - thus only consoling words.  I imagine for folks back then 'going for broke' was a normal and necessary part of life.

[Bruce]

Good thread with a lot of good advice. 

As far as finances I believe you should have your house paid off or the ability to immediately do so to start with.  You should have the ability to buy any car you want cash at any time.  You should have the ability to go on a shopping spree or luxury vacation at any time if you so choose.  You should have steady disposable free cash flow.  Your job may or may not be prestigious.  Remember, "money hides a lot of ugly."

You should be of sound character and moral judgement (but that is a given).

It may or may not cost you much to find your wife.  If you have the above you definitely will be able to keep her, provided you have chosen a woman who really loves you that you are able to love.  Time does become at least as important as money in the pursuit.  You must have a lot of available vacation and free time to devote to the pursuit of a wife abroad.

If you have a child expect everything first class for the child, even better than the for the wife in the wife's opinion. 

As far as dating, I would recommend a trip over just to see what life is like over there on vacation without worrying about women to start with.  Also, learn as much of the language as you can - at least as much so you can read the shop signs prior to making a trip over.

One more thing, the sooner you get off your arse and take the trip the better off you are. 

[jb]

When you visit the FSU, be careful when you eat at the cafe chain known as "Pесторанов", some are pretty upscale, while others are just plain bad.

[evaljean]

My two-cents.

My wife and I were just discussing this the other day as I tried to do a back of the envelope calculation.

It is like most things you can spend conservatively or luxuriously.  The biggest cost I encountered was taking trips, as I would go and stay for 2 or 3 weeks at a time.

The other big cost can be correspondence, especially if you need to pay per letter.

I do agree with the gentlman who used Elena's models.  Although her prices have gone WAY-UP from when I used her, she does provide good value.

Having said that, think of how much you spend dating in your country.  All you are doing is transferring that money over.

I actually disagree with the concept of speed-dating. You can do a great deal of the preliminary narrowing down before you go.

In our case I had a good idea of what I was looking for, primarily in her beliefs and values on life, family, kids, finances, etc.

My bottom-line, the better you know yourself and what you are looking for, the quicker and cheaper your search can be.

Eric

[Turboguy]

I was never much of a believer in the speed dating approach for most of my searching time.   My feelings about paralleled Gators.   I liked to make a trip and spend 2-3 days per lady which I felt gave me a chance to get to know them.   Sometimes how you feel about someone 10 minutes or an hour into the first meeting is far different than after a few days.   I also liked to write long enough to get a feeling for the type of person I was going to meet.  I wanted to know her dreams, her ideas about marriage and life, how she lived her life.   I wanted some rapport with her before I made a trip.

The first I really tried the speed dating approach was on Jack's tour and that was too late in my search to really apply the technique in my search but it did turn me into a believer.    I wasted a lot of trips spending a few days with gals who turned out to be wacko or alcoholics and the worst experiences I had were with trips to visit one although you can get lucky but the odds are not all that good.

There are lots of good ways to meet women but there are also lots of bad or ineffective ways.   I became fairly expert at the latter.   I am quite sure I am done with the searching.  Even if something happened with VWRW which I consider very unlikely, I doubt that I would start over.   If I did I think I would blend speed dating with the technique I preferred which was similar to Gators.   In other words if I were doing it over I think my trips would be to spend 2-3 days meeting a few ladies and 3-4 days of speed dating.   

[KenC]

I was never much of a believer in the speed dating approach for most of my searching time.   My feelings about paralleled Gators.   I liked to make a trip and spend 2-3 days per lady which I felt gave me a chance to get to know them.   Sometimes how you feel about someone 10 minutes or an hour into the first meeting is far different than after a few days.   I also liked to write long enough to get a feeling for the type of person I was going to meet.  I wanted to know her dreams, her ideas about marriage and life, how she lived her life.   I wanted some rapport with her before I made a trip.

The first I really tried the speed dating approach was on Jack's tour and that was too late in my search to really apply the technique in my search but it did turn me into a believer.    I wasted a lot of trips spending a few days with gals who turned out to be wacko or alcoholics and the worst experiences I had were with trips to visit one although you can get lucky but the odds are not all that good.

There are lots of good ways to meet women but there are also lots of bad or ineffective ways.   I became fairly expert at the latter.   I am quite sure I am done with the searching.  Even if something happened with VWRW which I consider very unlikely, I doubt that I would start over.   If I did I think I would blend speed dating wit hthe technique I preferred which was similar to Gators.   In other words if I were doing it over I think my trips would be to spend 2-3 days meeting a few ladies and 3-4 days of speed dating.   

*************Disclaimer*****************
Please note that this "wonderful" advice comes from a man that took 10 years to find a RW that would have him!  (And 100's of thousands fo dollars spent)  If that is your idea of success, follow the advice as given.  BTW, Gator too has been at this for quite a while and has yet to marry.
KenC

[trev01us]

I have to admit when i started this thread I thought that I might get a few responses.  I never imagined getting all the advice that I have gotten.

Thank You All


Trev

[Eduard]

Trev,
I firmly believe that before making a trip, one should get to know 2-3 ladies well on line and make some sort of a romantic connection with them. Then when you go there you will have a couple of dates lined up which even if nothing comes out of it will be a lot more pleasant. Even if you and the girl choose to keep it at a "friendship" level she'll show you around the city, explore interesting parts and she'll steer you away from bad food places, etc. It is also quite probable that if you do line up, say 3 women to meet with, you will have a very nice romantic connection with one of them.
If you just go by yourself without lining up the dates it is possible that you will find yourself very frustrated seeing all these gorgeous women around and not being able to meet any of them. The only places you will meet women at will be the night clubs, and those women usually are not a girlfriend material, let alone wife...

[Gator]

KenC

BTW, Gator too has been at this for quite a while and has yet to marry.

It took 5 years to convince her!   

There is ABSOLUTELY NO connection between my advice and not marrying. 

Writing some to a woman, talking a lot with her, and spending 2-3 days together - it worked for me every time.  Many times my first hour impressions were proven wrong.  Not that the women revealed a disturbing side, there simply was not enough between us to keep it going.

Regarding not being married (I love it when you are critical of me), I was not ready to marry for the first 2+ years (rebound from 25-yr marriage).   Then we parted, then we got back together.  Add it up, 5 years.

It takes time:

1)  to know these women to the depth that I require, and

2)  to build a loving, enduring relationship  (and there is no substitute for time).

I ignored the fact that she is Russian and instead told myself to date and build a relationship as if she were living in America.  Very little was forced ahead of its time.

Am I happy?  Yes, very happy.  Would I have done anything differently?  Nothing major. 

[Turboguy]

*************Disclaimer*****************
Please note that this "wonderful" advice comes from a man that took 10 years to find a RW that would have him!  (And 100's of thousands fo dollars spent)  If that is your idea of success, follow the advice as given.  BTW, Gator too has been at this for quite a while and has yet to marry.
KenC

Yes, I agree, Gator.   It is a lot of fun isn't it? 

Well first off let me correct your facts.   It wasn't 10 years.  I made my first trip in 1996 so it was 11 years.  Hundreds of thousands of dollars?   Well, it was enough that I haven't got the foggiest idea.  It probably was not hundreds of thousands of dollars.   It likely would be well over the 100 grand mark though which does include getting to know some fiancees.

Personally Ken, I think you learn a lot from your mistakes.   You had none to learn from which to me puts you pretty low on the ability to help list since you never tried most of the techniques that there are to try.  Look at it this way.   I spend tons of money getting an education and hope I can save some of the newbies the expense of making the same mistakes I did.  Of course most newbies don't want to listen anyway.   The reality of it is Ken, your experience with searching for, meeting and dating RW is both very limited and very old.   Which millennium was your one trip Ken, this one or the last one?

[I/O]

Personally Ken, I think you learn a lot from your mistakes.   You had none to learn from which to me puts you pretty low on the ability to help list since you never tried most of the techniques that there are to try.  Look at it this way.   I spend tons of money getting an education and hope I can save some of the newbies the expense of making the same mistakes I did.  Of course most newbies don't want to listen anyway.   The reality of it is Ken, your experience with searching for, meeting and dating RW is both very limited and very old.   Which millennium was your one trip Ken, this one or the last one?

This has gotta be one of the classic pieces of Turbopathic idiocy vomited onto RWD.......ever. Turbo, get some facts straight before you make such ridiculous statements.

I/O

[Mishenka]

Speaking about income level,, once you get through this whole process you might think,, where did all your money go? Here are some ideas I use to save money.

When you first meet or have to live separately while one is traveling: Use programs like SKYPE to talk via computer with web cam, headphones and mic.  It is totally free for SKYPE users and will save you thousands in phone bills, even if you do use phone cards etc.  Video helps a lot observing body language and will add to the "chemistry" factor.  You will benefit by spending more time together this way before you spend MEGA BUCKS traveling. Its not meant to replace a face to face meeting but sure beats talking to a wall. 8 out of 10 women I have met have their own computers at home or work and could go to work on a Saturday to talk to me online, before or after hours. All of them had home phones and mobile phones. You can use SKYPE to send SMS to plan an online meeting. The cost to SMS her mobile is 9 cents. Cost to call her land line or work phone is around  .02 per minute or less. CHEAP

Learn Russian language!!!!! high on the priority list, If they are willing to learn English,, then we should be willing to step up to the plate and at least try to match their intellect and learn their native language. This gives you much more to talk about later when you run out of things to say, and eventually you will.  Have fun teaching each other your languages.

I refuse to pay for an expensive tour when I can travel for a fraction of their cost booking my own ticket. I am lucky that Galina and her brother work for the airlines. it won't give me any discounts but it's great knowing Aleksey is my Pilot when I'm in the air flying to see his sister.

Apply for your own visa ( with her help with invitation) you will save anywhere from 100-300 USD A Russian visa cost $40 bucks for people on tours and 90 for a single entry, if you paid more you got ripped, unless it was a 3 years multiple entry visa. Yes you can get these for up to 36 months. Uzbekistan charges $150, if you paid more,, well,, someone profited. I have seen them charge as much as $350 on web sites.

I try not to stay in hotels when I can stay with my fiance without cost. If you do need a Hotel then have your fiance book in from her side and it will save you 80% of the cost of what they will charge an American. PAY in cash , not credit card! cash still talks,Euro's talk louder than USD.  As a matter of fact, let her pay for everything, Taxi included because the cost to Russian nationals a fraction of what they charge outsiders, regardless of where you are from.  Just keep quiet and let her negotiate the price, If the driver asks for 30 bucks, she will be paying him $10 for the ride and you just saved $20 to buy her flowers with! Where can you get flowers for $20?  let her handle it! she knows where the deals are.

Let them do the shopping,, it will save you half and they love to negotiate prices. Let her have fun and get you the best deal and then you can spend all night praising her for "such a deal" she got you!  

The cost of living goes both ways, as I told Galina what price her favorite perfume sells for in USA she pays 10 X more in Russia.  I have been doing this since 99' and have learned a few things. Mostly to keep my mouth shut  in the beginning and depend on her to help while I'm in her country, she will depend on me in my country.

I have added Galina to my address at home, with utility bills and opened a bank account. It will come in handy later.

A little work saves a lot of $$ in the long run.
Cheers

[BillyB]

I think writing should really take place after you have met. I've seen sooooooooo many relationships die on the first meeting it is almost a joke. To many variables must fall into place to really make long, in depth writing a viable option PRIOR to meeting. Who knows, you could actually be corresponding with Fat Yuri rather than really sweet Svetlana. How can you be sure?

Actually, there should be little or no writing after you meet a RW and become exclusive with her. You think you might be corresponding with Fat Yuri and wasting time?? Just think how you'd feel if you spent $3000 to visit Fat Yuri who doesn't show up at the date! For $99, you can get 900 contact info at bride.ru and communicate with all the women you can handle. You can weed out the girls who doesn't show enthusiasm for you when you write or call and if you call often enough, you will be able to determine if you're speaking with a RW or Fat Yuri. If a RW doesn't like to hear your voice every other day on the phone, why should you spent $3000 to visit her? Taz, many of the men you seen may not know their head from their A@@hole and that's why their first dates blow up in their face. They did not take time to really know a woman before visiting her. They probably threw a dart at a map and let the dart make a decision on what city they are to find a wife and then they purchased an plane ticket and with the method of just showing up in town, they think they have a recipe for success.

I try not to stay in hotels when I can stay with my fiance without cost. If you do need a Hotel then have your fiance book in from her side and it will save you 80% of the cost of what they will charge an American. 

I have added Galina to my address at home, with utility bills and opened a bank account. It will come in handy later.

Mishenka, if I'm not mistaken, you have not met Galina yet and you should not call her "fiancee" yet. When you visit her, you should be ready and able to walk away if she's not all there mentally. I'm sure you're having outstanding correspondence but there's always a chance things may not work out.

[jb]

Whoa there big fella,,, how many times has Mishenka been to the FSU?

[I/O]

Whoa there big fella,,, how many times has Mishenka been to the FSU?

Profile says 1-3. Last posts suggest the same at a max. Euro's speak? BS with a capital B. $ that is US$ talk the talk all over Russia and further. You can use Euros, but they aren't universally accepted.

Frankly I think anyone who needs his G/F to haggle a $10 better taxi deal in the FSU should stay home.

I/O

[Turboguy]

Profile says 1-3. Last posts suggest the same at a max. Euro's speak? BS with a capital B. $ that is US$ talk the talk all over Russia and further. You can use Euros, but they aren't universally accepted.

Frankly I think anyone who needs his G/F to haggle a $10 better taxi deal in the FSU should stay home.
I/O

If I only had your posts from the last two days to go buy I would believe you were a total newbie thinking about his first trip.   I never heard of anyone not letting his gal arrange the taxis.

[William3rd]

I see that the turbofool is still spouting diarrhea.

 Short honeymoon? Or trying to figure out yet a new way to mislead the readership here?

Oh wait- this is your idea of foreplay. How silly of me. . . . sure beats taking a nap, eh old-timer

[I/O]

If I only had your posts from the last two days to go buy I would believe you were a total newbie thinking about his first trip.   I never heard of anyone not letting his gal arrange the taxis.

For the resident idiot, the point is, any guy not capable of doing a decent deal for himself shouldn't be there in the first instance and further to put the girl in the position of having to do his dirty work for him (Negotiate a deal when he is supposedly courting her) is pathetic. The next point I would make, is that it can be down right embarresing for a lady to be put in such a situation and the next (far from final point I could make) is that if he such a penny pincher or so phriggen skint that he would create such a situation for 10 lousy bucks he should be still suckin' on momma's tit and not trying to suck on the one belonging to a foreign woman.

If there is one thing Russian women (That I know) hate, it is a mean man. Getting her to do the piddling deals for you is a pretty fair indication of just that. Meanness.

Startin' to see a few more reasons why it took Turbopath over a decade to get one to seriously take the bait.

I/O

[Lily]

A little work saves a lot of $$ in the long run.

Michenka, your approach to finances makes lots of sense. It would be interesting to know later how much one can really spend having some work done before.

[Turboguy]

Thanks William.  Actually we did not take a honeymoon.   We visited so many beaches and vacation spots waiting for our visa we had not desire for a honeymoon.   

I really was happy to let the nit picking die down and fade into oblivion but I/O's comment flies against every thing any woman, agency, tour operator or anyone I ever met on any trip and in my book rates as the dumbest thing I have ever read on  RWD.   Every woman I ever met would have thought me a fool to try to negotiate my on taxi fares.   Most asked me to not even speak in the cab.   Anytime a cab driver knows a foreigner is traveling the price at least doubles or more.

[Turboguy]

When you visit the FSU, be careful when you eat at the cafe chain known as "Pесторанов", some are pretty upscale, while others are just plain bad.

While I am talking about stupid posts let me ask about this one.   I am not saying I am right but isn't the word Pесторанов just Russian for "Restaurant"   I am guessing jb was just trying to pull a newbies leg on this one.

[Bruce]

Yes, JB was just talking about restaurants giving the guy a heads up, with some sly humour.  Taxi's were always hard with me.  If I knew the correct price I negotiated better.  Believe it or not, I had no problem negotiating taxi prices in Ukraine but often Russia and particularly St. Petersburg was absolute misery for me my last trip there.  My negotiating tactic often was, ok Igor, drive someone else, I am walking to the next cab - where I ended up walking a few blocks until I found someone willing to drive me at a reasonable (still often higher than should be) price.  Honestly, my wife to this day still tells me to keep my mouth shut and let her negotiate the price.  In any event we usually travel by public transportation.  You know, I like to be one of the people to see how things really are. 

I respect Turbo for trying, trying, trying and trying again to reach his goal.  He mixed up strategies and did more than one thing at the same time.  I pretty much did the same thing.  The key is getting yourself out there on the ground and good things will happen eventually.  Anyway, I hope he got it right this time.  The fact that VWRW is not attempting to go through Turbo's dollars like water is a very good sign.  The pompous cityslicker in me says she is not buying anything because there is nothing to buy in semi-rural Pennsylvannia, but I know I am wrong.  Still, Turbo, take VWRW to NYC.  Take her into Sachs 5 Avenue, Fortunoffs, Macy's (actually not so unreasonable for decent stuff) clothes shopping and see how you do.