Suggested Income Level

[I/O]

I/O's comment flies against every thing any woman, agency, tour operator or anyone I ever met on any trip and in my book rates as the dumbest thing I have ever read on  RWD.

Turbo: As I said up thread, a lot is revealed regarding your techniques. Have a talk to my wife and other RW on this subject (As I did today) and she will tell you that if she had been put in that position with any man early in the piece he would have gotten his marching orders quick smart. Penny pincher's and "momma tit" suckers don't cut it with her class. BTW, she is as tight as the proverbial fishes ........ with money.

It just oozes class. "Hi honey, nice to meet you, we need a taxi, here is $20, get me the cheapest deal you can and make sure you give me back the change when the deal is done, I'll sit here like a dumbarse and let you carry the can for me". The social class of a wounded bull elephant. Quite unbelievable.

Now here is a little clue if you want some help from a RW early on in such a situation, whilst maintaining a little dignity for all parties (Direct from a RW who was laughing her head off at anyone that couldn't do a taxi deal for themselves), I quote: "Ask the driver the price and when he answers, say you don't understand and ask him to repeat, this gives her the opportunity to chip in IF she chooses, but never put her in the position directly. It is her choice. It is your money, it is up to you to take care of it. If you can't, not many RW will have much respect for you".

As far as agencies and tour operators go, I have never had much respect for any of them because I think they are for people too dumb or too lazy to do it for themselves, therefore I have only limited respect for their opinions. Haven't changed on that from the first time I travelled and am not likely to change anytime soon. They have their place, but not in my circle.

The point is Turbo, in many cases a "Lady" may well step up and assume control of a situation such as the above mentioned and I would never refuse that assistance, but a gentleman NEVER deliberately puts a lady in such a situation. Any clown that would or needs to do that should be staying home.

I/O 

[Turboguy]

Thanks Bruce.   Most newbies have enough trouble reading signs that I can't think it would have done any harm.  

When I have been alone I managed to negotiate a decent taxi price and get where I am going.  Mostly I faked it.   I would hand the driver an address written in Russian, say Skolka and look like I was thinking about it for 30 seconds before I got in and for the most part I was not too badly gouged.  

I can always remember my first non airport cab ride in the FSU.   I had a gal invite me to her apartment to meet her parents and have dinner and after she had me hide in the woods and went out with that dropped hankerchief hand motion that I had never seen before and would not let me come out of the woods until she had negotiated a cheap price for me.  It does not seem strange to me now but at the time it really did.

Hummm,   if VWRW gets a good job in America she will die the richest Russian ever, still possesing every dollar she ever made.    We went shopping the day after Christmas and shopped for 8-9 hours and spent $ 70.00.   Personally I think if I took her to Sach's in NYC she would proably not spend a penny.   She didn't even like the prices in Victoria's Secret.  Her favorite place to shop is the same as mine, WalMart.    Everything she buys she spends 5 minutes making sure it is the best value.   She is very careful and very wise with money.  

[I/O]

favorite place to shop is the same as mine, WalMart.

  Why does that not surprise me. Stick around Turbo, you're worth the entertainment value...............sometimes. See, you should love that, I have finally found some value in you. Gawd our governments should be sacked, they keep giving passports to this type. International disgrace.

I/O

[Mishenka]

Profile says 1-3. Last posts suggest the same at a max. Euro's speak? BS with a capital B. $ that is US$ talk the talk all over Russia and further. You can use Euros, but they aren't universally accepted.

Frankly I think anyone who needs his G/F to haggle a $10 better taxi deal in the FSU should stay home.

I/O

I/O  Smart is smart and Dumb is DUMBER,, Euro's are the NEW dollar in more places than just Europe my friend, where have you been the last 6 months? All of Gasprom oil and gas is traded in Euro's. at nearly $150 USD to 100 euro why would it not be the first choice in international travel? You will get 50% more Rubles for a Euro in Russia than a dollar will buy. Testing 1,2,3

My fiance Galina,  (I will call her that because she is) works as the  Accountant General for Uzbeck Airways, and she insists on handling the money her way while in her country, Who am I to argue? If you read my taxi example correctly,  saving USD $20 or 66% on a taxi is not such a stupid thing when she is the one who makes the suggestion.  She loves flowers, so why not be smart about it and follow her suggestion?  Relationships are all about giving from both sides equally. She wants to handle my Visa because she knows people in the Embassy that will handle it faster than I can from here.  I say, Let her do it, and feel like she is helping. This way, if something goes wrong, she isn't going to think I'm trying to back out of it.

You can all go spend your $100,000 finding your RW, go on tours and waste your time and money. I will spend my 10,000 for the whole process,, 10% of what some of you claim to spend or cost you and we will see in 10 years who is still married and had a dime left in their bank accounts. This is not rocket science. We don't sweat the minor things. We will get married in her Church  in Tashkent "because she wants to"  When we are back in the USA we will get married again here.

Again, let wisdom speak for herself.  She is the best teacher.

I'm not up for any arguments here, I'm just out of the hospital after spending 8 days in Intensive care and only here to help with some ideas.
Cheers,
Mishenka

[Turboguy]

Mishenka, I have to agree with you this can be as expensive or as inexpensive a proposition as you want it to be.   I have never even had a scammer that did not want to try to save me money on taxi's.   It left more for them to get and I am sure helped them pull off thier scam.   

I am sure if I ever had a gal indicate she wanted me to negotiate the taxi prices I would have done that but in all my trips and meeting any woman I never had a single one who would not have thought me a fool to do so.   I won't argue that women do not want to marry a cheapskate.   They also don't want to marry a fool. 

I am not quite sure I understand what you are saying about the Euro.  I will agree the Euro has been doing well in comparison to the dollar and I will totally agree it is accepted equally with the dollar and is often prefered.  For most of us we don't have that choice.  If we come from the USA we have dollars.  To change the dollars into Euros and the Euros into Roubles would not be a wise thing for any of us.

I hope you are recovering well from your hospital stay.   I think you have made some very good comments here.

[I/O]

Mishenka: Where have I been recently? Russia and a few cities at that so make of it what you will. The exchange rate has nothing to do with what the rank file will accept more readily, but on that subject I am still at a loss to understand why anyone would take cash to exchange. That went out about the same time as button up boots.

If you are so dumb that you can't distinguish between exchange rates and acceptance, then I've no doubt your intended needs to do the business for you. Good for you if you can do it for less than 10K, I never counted the cost to any extent, didn't need to.

Yes we will see in 10 years who is who in the zoo, don't count your chickens before they have hatched, you've a very long way to go.

Did it ever occur to you that Gazprom hasn't any choice but to trade in Euros, because that is where it's market is..........Duhhhhhhhh. Has nothing to do with what's happening on the street.

All the best with your health recovery and on the other front, be careful, me thinks you've a long road ahead.

I/O 

[BC]

Euro land is now snug against RU borders.  Regardless of exchange rate, EUR is and will continue to become the preferred currency in RU.  Advertisements on Russian/Ukranian TV now show Euro banknotes instead of dollars.

There is an upside though, the outsourcing I arrange in my EU business is tipping slightly towards providers in the US.

Should the USD continue it's slide, in a year or so US IP (intellectual property) providers will become competitive with those in FSU.

At 1.75 USD to the USD things will become somewhat balanced and the US will become a very attractive EU/FSU tourist destination allowing the US service sector to shine a bit.

For US based romance seekers, AW will become the more attractive 'alternative' unless tourist and immigration regulations relax a bit - but I think hell will freeze over first.

Those that can afford a trip to FSU will be few, but due to their obvious resources will likely still find a good many women seeking wealth.  A woman from FSU will again become a true 'luxury' item instead of current 'bargain basement' status.

Get em while you can folks.
 

[groovlstk]

You can all go spend your $100,000 finding your RW, go on tours and waste your time and money. I will spend my 10,000 for the whole process,, 10% of what some of you claim to spend or cost you and we will see in 10 years who is still married and had a dime left in their bank accounts. This is not rocket science. We don't sweat the minor things. We will get married in her Church  in Tashkent "because she wants to"  When we are back in the USA we will get married again here.

Mishenka, I'm sorry about your medical problems but I'm not going to let this pass.

You stated earlier that you have yet to meet this woman, yet you can't stop yourself from bragging about how great your relationship is? OK, typical rookie mistake... But wait, you then say she's your fiancee...? So now you're ENGAGED to a woman you haven't even met?

Yet the above foolishness is not enough, you have the cajones to then BRAG to everyone else that you spent only a fraction of $$ in your search (a search which, to any sane person, is just beginning) compared to us dummies who spent more?

To top it all off, even though you've long since crossed the boundary of foolishness you conclude by disparaging other guys' marriages and saying "we will see in 10 years who is still married and had a dime left in their bank accounts."

We will see, indeed.

I have seen many, many foolish things here but this one takes the cake.

 

[I/O]

Get em while you can folks.

LOL, starting to sound like one of those (other thread) mentioned TV adds, buy now, but wait, if you use your credit card, there is more, stake (sp intended) knives thrown in free, and, wait for it, if you live in the USA, there is a 90 day send 'em back assurance. Ya poor buggers, we get to try 'em out for 9 months down here before they've gotta get hitched or get out. Trouble with that is we only get one shot every 5 years, seemingly you 'mericans get a couple of goes around in that time, gawd Turbo, you could've done at least 4 in the time you've been at it and you're only on your second. Must be those good techniques you use, or couldn't you find 4 to sort out taxi fares for you?

I/O

[BC]

Mishenka, I have to agree with you this can be as expensive or as inexpensive a proposition as you want it to be.   I have never even had a scammer that did not want to try to save me money on taxi's.   It left more for them to get and I am sure helped them pull off thier scam.   

I have never heard of a married guy that stated he came off cheap.

I found my wife without looking and dumped 35K easily (excluding a few traveller mile airline tickets) over the first year getting her and our daughter settled in (a Gucci gal she is not, but does like good quality at a reasonable price).

When we visited RU, I always let my wife arrange transportation etc.  I took care of arranging hotels in places she was not famliar with.  Even before we married I simply gave her all the cash I allotted for my trip and told her the day it ran out was the day I would go home.  In for a penny, in for a pound - in the end she and her mother even arranged to have my visa extended for an additional week (an almost impossible task).

I cannot imagine someone interested in FSU women getting off much cheaper than I did.

[Turboguy]

The brass ring is not having an FSU wife I/O.   It is having a far better wife than you can find here who you share much in common and have a wonderful life together.   Any idiot can get married in the FSU.   Any idiot can find a gal who turns him on and makes him loose his judgement.   Sure, I could have done a fiancee visa earlier than I did.  I am happy with how things went.

I am still at a loss to understand why anyone would take cash to exchange. That went out about the same time as button up boots.
I/O 

This has been discussed a number of times I/O.  The general consensis is that there are cash people and credit card people.   I am in the cash group myself and rarely used my credit or debit cards in the FSU.   Usually I went with somewhere between 3 and 6 grand on me depending on if my rooms were prepaid.   There is nothing stupid about using cash.   No bills to come home to and no worry about identity theft.

[BC]

LOL, starting to sound like one of those (other thread) mentioned TV adds, buy now, but wait, if you use your credit card, there is more, stake (sp intended) knives thrown in free, and, wait for it, if you live in the USA, there is a 90 day send 'em back assurance.

I/O,

Believe or not, that is what sells.  I would estimate the RW 'Industry' at somewhere around a half to one billion dollar per year.

With 90% of men never even visiting, paying 10 bucks or so per letter I have honestly considered doing 'something' myself.  Even 'dumping' the 10% serious seekers I'd have 90% satisfied customers!

[BC]

The brass ring is not having an FSU wife I/O.   It is having a far better wife than you can find here who you share much in common and have a wonderful life together.   Any idiot can get married in the FSU.   Any idiot can find a gal who turns him on and makes him loose his judgement.   Sure, I could have done a fiancee visa earlier than I did.  I am happy with how things went.

Turbo, I can imagine you are happy.. Luda alone could have ruined you. Instead she opted for a nice vacation and 'lost bags'.

I still have a hard time deciding whether she was smart or dumb.

[viking]

Good thread with a lot of good advice. 

As far as finances I believe you should have your house paid off or the ability to immediately do so to start with.  You should have the ability to buy any car you want cash at any time.  You should have the ability to go on a shopping spree or luxury vacation at any time if you so choose. 
You must have a lot of available vacation and free time to devote to the pursuit of a wife abroad.

If you have a child expect everything first class for the child, even better than the for the wife in the wife's opinion. 

 

Bruce, I need to disagree with you here. You make it sound like only a hedge fund manager making millions can seek and find a RW for a wife.Are you suggesting only rich people can do this? I know several men, with modest incomes, living in apartments, who found and are married to wonderful Rusian woman. How many people, middle class or upper middle class, can afford to "just pay off your house". Come on. Go on a luxury vacation anytime you want? Give me a break. First class stuff for the kid? Ever hear of being spoiled? Buy a luxury car, anytime, cash? Sure, everyone can pull $250K out of the bank, because the one year old Bentley needs to be replaced by the latest Ferrari. Either you are an extremely wealthy person who does not have a clue how the other 98% of people live, or your sense of finances are a bit warped.

Yes, there are men here who are independant business owners who are doing quite well, or guys who did well and are now in a state of semi or permanenet retirement. And there are those in key industry verticals for are making a very good living. But to suggest that one must have the capabilities to do what you say here as a bar for searching and finding and marrying a good woman from the FSU? No way dude.

[BC]

Bruce, I need to disagree with you here. You make it sound like only a hedge fund manager making millions can seek and find a RW for a wife.

......

Yes, there are men here who are independant business owners who are doing quite well, or guys who did well and are now in a state of semi or permanenet retirement. And there are those in key industry verticals for are making a very good living. But to suggest that one must have the capabilities to do what you say here as a bar for searching and finding and marrying a good woman from the FSU? No way dude.

Viking,  In my experience, every little bit helps. Bruce is not being unreasonable.

[groovlstk]

Viking,  In my experience, every little bit helps. Bruce is not being unreasonable.

I hardly think I bucked any trends, but not only have I not paid off my home but my wife and I live in a rented apartment.  We're looking at homes now and will probably take out a mortgage in the next 3 months, but condos in our area start at 500k for 1BR. I make a good living at just over six figures but in our locale that's slightly above average.

I was able to take a dozen trips to the FSU in two years' time at the height of my search and I don't have any debt, but we're hardly wealthy.

Come to think of it, if only truly wealthy guys are successful in this pursuit, is there any wonder that hierarchy-obsessed Russian and Ukrainian people we met after my wife's arrival would ask her what kind of car she drove and how big our house was within five minutes of making introductions?

[jb]

BC,

Nor can I.  When my wife was working for the American Oil Company they had a "driver",,, we kept him.  Whenever we wanted, or needed, a car,,, a phone call was all it took.  Even if it was just a trip to the market.  The old guy was like family. 

But then, I never used an agency for anything.  My experience was so unlike anything the usual newbie is dealing with I cannot relate to some of the posts here.  Thus I stick to what I know.

[I/O]

The brass ring is not having an FSU wife I/O.

Very true, very true, think about what you have written and your techniques. Regardless, it is rather pleasant to do this with some sense of dignity....................for all concerned.

The general consensis is that there are cash people and credit card people.

Agreed, however my latter point had nothing to do with means of payment on the ground, (CC's vs Cash) I'm a cash guy in that respect myself, but rather means by which to obtain local currency once on the ground because regardless of Euro's or USD, the local currency is still king when it comes to small purchases.

no worry about identity theft.

You really think anyone would want to steal your identity? :hairraising: TFF

With 90% of men never even visiting, paying 10 bucks or so per letter I have honestly considered doing 'something' myself.  Even 'dumping' the 10% serious seekers I'd have 90% satisfied customers!

BC: Give ya a clue, develop a PC USB powered wanking machine, you should be able to market it via the dating sites and you'll make your second fortune.

I/O

[Taz]

I am pretty good a saving a few dollars in the FSU but I have to be quite honest here. If you have to watch every dollar you spend, then you are in the wrong pursuit. It IS expensive no matter how you do it.

Depending on what airport you fly out of, you are going to spend at least $1,000 to get there and back without any in country travel or taxis. Learn Russian and you can save a wad of cash by finding better transport and lodging options in country. Saving a few pennies on phone calls seems nice but compared to the other costs it amounts to NOTHING!

One big way to save money is negotiation. Almost everything can be negotiated if you try hard enough except a few more modern supermarkets or in restaurants. It isn’t a bad idea to let your lady do the negotiation if you can’t speak Russian. No shame in doing and that and quite honestly she should be more than willing to help out if you are stranger in her country. If she isn’t, she is either very naïve or she doesn’t really care that much about you. If the latter, I’d likely pass on that woman. I am not saying make her do all the work but she likely knows how things work far better than you do.

Quite honestly you should be looking for a woman that will look out for you while in HER country they way you should when she is in YOUR country! If she lets you piss away vast sums of money when you could have done it more cost effectively, then I would definitely be concerned about her. If she isn’t concerned, then ask if she would rather have you waste the money on the taxi or instead do something nice for both of you?

You should still be the MAN but she needs to lend her support where necessary. Last thing I would want is a woman who isn’t interested in working together to build a better life. That teamwork BEGINS in her country. If it doesn’t start out well in her country, I can assure it won’t be any better when she comes back to yours. Still the onus will be on you as you are the one courting her and trying to woo her.

I have dated some pretty well-off women and typically I still paid though often they would do something nice for me. I never asked for it or expected it but it did happen. I dated a very nice dentist who had quite a bit of disposable income and she paid for a few trips for us without asking. She did it as a surprise and had everything lined up when I arrived. It was probably a 70/30 relationship when it came to finances with my side bearing the greater financial responsibility. I think she was willing to help because in general I have a very generous nature. She didn’t think of me as being greedy or self-centered so she was more inclined to help. This is definitely more the exception than the rule. If they do contribute financially think of it as a bonus.

To save money I try to avoid hotels and stay in apartments. It isn’t always cheaper but in general you will save money. I try to avoid taxis and I can read Russian well so I’ll take the bus and/or metro where possible. Taxis are rarely inexpensive and quite often they will rip you off. Keep in mind that if a rate seems too good to be true, it likely is. I’ve seen guys who were told a rate of $50 for a ride and the driver took them half way there and then demanded another fifty. If it is a long ride, I’ll pay partially up front and the balance once we arrive.

As mentioned you can make this as expensive as you wish or trying and be more economical. Don’t get caught up in false economy though. Usually while there I value my time more than my money. As a result I WILL spend extra money if it frees up more time for me. Really the key to this is planning as much as possible in advance, making good contacts to help you and having a good idea of what the normal costs are so you know when prices are unreasonable.

For example my last trip I spent $1000 for my airfare alone. I spent another $700 for in country transportation (trains, planes, cars, taxi, metro, bus, etc.). I didn't go to just one city and park so to speak. If you can fly into a major city and remain there you will have less in country travel expenses (unless you use taxis a lot) but you will pay more per for housing.

I spent about another $50/day for food and lodging for myself. I spent another $20/day for incidentals such as gifts, flowers, cell phone, internet, etc. I would say that typically it would be difficult to live in country on less than about $40/day UNLESS you are living with the woman and pay no rent so to speak. Food is typically going to run you about $10-15 a day minimum. Expensive cities like Kiev and Moscow will be substantially higher.

If you want to go totally cheap and you have some Russian ability, you could find a babushka at the line outside the train station and find a room for about $10 a day and possibly less. Not the ideal situation to bring a woman home to but it is a good option if you are meeting a bunch of women. I’d move out once you find someone serious you want to spend quality time with. Sometimes you can get food in this arrangement as well.

I’ve done this before and it is quite interesting. I met some great folks this way. One lady I stayed with, Margarita, was quite the character. I paid $5/day and had a nice arrangement. Her husband was a WWII vet and quite enjoyable to converse with. She’d bring me food every day at dinner and all I had to do was feed the fish each day.

I would say don’t go too cheap as it is false economy. Every bit of Russian you know will help you do it less expensively. I’ve been able to leave there as a local and live like the locals do. I can’t say I would advocate that for most men here. For many of you it would be a substantial lifestyle change and it might be less than comfortable.

For a while I went the really cheap route and unless I am going to be there for at least a month, I don’t bother with it anymore. I’ll take a bit more comfort AND most importantly be better situated with respect to public transport. Bottom line for me is I’d rather spend my money on a special woman than throw it away on other things. If I do save some money I’ll just use it to return more frequently.

Lastly, I wish some of you would just let your petty feuds die off. So what if Turbo took 100 trips to find a woman or I/O did it in -1. You'd both have more to offer instead of bickering with each other. I don't know either of you but in general you both have good points to make when you are sniping at each other. I personally can see where you are both coming from.

[Daveman]

Well, in my vastly minute experience, I can honestly say that on all three of my trips, at the moment of arrival, all three ladies ripped off their shirts and slammed their tits deeply into my mouth.  Kinda fun for me.  There was never any of this "Show me you're a man", or anything.. it was like we were very close friends looking out for each other from the start and growing relations from there.  Like Taz said, felt more like a team. I never negotiated a taxi unless I was alone, and then I mostly preferred walking, the shuttles, or subway anyway. It didn't seem to be a question of whether I could do it or not as I wasn't given the opportunity really, they just stepped up and did it. 

Next time I'll be sure to step in and shout "HALT Vaginalistic One!!!! Thou hast usurped my manly position young damsel.. I must indeed prove my genetic superiority, wisdom, manhood and gonadic fortitude by signaling, negotiating, and ultimately enlisting the service of the Taxi..."    

I/O, I get exactly where you're coming from most of the time, but on this one, I honestly can't see how in the world flagging or talking to a cab driver could possibly freak a woman out with being put into a bad position.  It seemed to be an absolute non issue for all of them other than really kinda taking pride in looking out for me. What am I missing here?

My simple observation here (and with other situations other than a taxi) is that if an FSU woman likes you, she'll move a mountain for you... and if you sincerely appreciate her for what she does and what she is capable of doing.. she'll move the whole friggin' earth, freeze hell, and bring heaven to your door.  It seems being appreciated has much to do with the psyche... but this is pretty much an observational guess. 

Either that, or I'm so incredibly irresistible that only I can bring out this characteristic in these women.  Which, of course, may very well be the case,    but I'd prefer to believe that the good ones are all exactly this way.

Just as an aside... when the Russian girl asked me about my visa registration (where, how much), I answered "We'll just stop by some of the hotels and find one to register it for fifty or an hundred dollars, no problem.."

Her: BLAHHBLBLBLBLALALALALLAALA FEEEEFTY??? HOONDRIT????? BLAHaHeeeHHAHAHA STEAL BLALALALLA CREEEMENEEL!!

Sooooooo..... I was interested in seeing the inside of a gov't building and thought I'd document the process and post it here for other's who wish to register with the Malitsia would know how... so I let her talk me into it..........

Visa registration process:


Time in queue: Who the hell knows
Mental cost: Two aneurysms, and at least one major cursing tantrum
Time involved: total of 4 days (always a problem, had to come back the next day-- for various reasons)
Time for dave: three days (you are not required to be present for your visa registration but I was forbidden proximity to this or any other government building after cursing tantrum)

The proud look on your lady's face when she triumphantly walks in the door with your registered visa for 14 rubles - priceless..


Don't bother trying to explain the monetary vs time cost logic... just repeat "Ya ni ponimayu" after anything she says and go to the freakin' hotel and be done with it..

Dave

[I/O]

I/O, I get exactly where you're coming from most of the time, but on this one, I honestly can't see how in the world flagging or talking to a cab driver could possibly freak a woman out with being put into a bad position.  It seemed to be an absolute non issue for all of them other than really kinda taking pride in looking out for me. What am I missing here? Dave

Dave: IMO you are missing quite a bit. Others are missing much more. The entire point of my comment was, when you turn up FIRST TIME to meet a lady whom you have never met, don't make yourself look the complete idiot by asking her to do the deal in the taxi for you. First taxi trip, either do the deal yourself or just get in, sit down, shut up and PAY THE PRICE, whatever that may be within reason. (A taxi ride is simply an example) It's bascially called being a dignified gentleman. Further down the track, if she wants to cut a deal for you, sure let her go at it. But if anyone goes relying on the lady to wipe their arses, they should stay home and do everyone a favour.

Spare us, I've seen guys over there not capable of figuring out how to buy a meal for themselves unless the menu is written in English.

I/O

[Turboguy]

FIRST TIME to meet a lady whom you have never met, don't make yourself look the complete idiot by asking her to do the deal in the taxi for you. I/O

I never had to ask and doubt if many others did either.   Every gal I ever met did it automatically.

Spare us, I've seen guys over there not capable of figuring out how to buy a meal for themselves unless the menu is written in English.

I/O

I would be surprised if most of us are not in that catagory.   I need either an English menu, a menu with pictures or someone who speaks both languages.    I would be surprised if more than 1 out of 10 of us could read a menu totally in Russian without help.

[I/O]

I need either an English menu, a menu with pictures or someone who speaks both languages. 

Pity Eduard was late to the party, his $1500/week could have worked wonders over the decade and maybe saved you a buck or 3 in the process. Sorry for laughing Turbo, you're not such a bad cove, but some of your stupidity astounds me. You may have "got her", but you still don't "get it".

Goodness, P/G can get laid with grunts and hand signals..!!! Eventually. Surely you could get something as simple as a feed without a menu or picture book........no?


I/O

[Daveman]

Dave: IMO you are missing quite a bit.

I'm sure this is true, and is, aside from the scintillating camaraderie, the very reason I'm here.

...when you turn up FIRST TIME to meet a lady whom you have never met, don't make yourself look the complete idiot by asking her to do the deal in the taxi for you...

That's what I missed in the earlier posts.  That should be common sense.  I would also agree that many if not most of the westerners (unfortunately especially the Americans) I met while in Ukraine really were not what I'd consider to be realistic, grounded, or in some instances even 'normal'.  Just weird.

Spare us, I've seen guys over there not capable of figuring out how to buy a meal for themselves unless the menu is written in English.

I/O

Spare you what? My complimentary RW commentary? What can I say... I like 'em    I've seen examples of the above and while I chose a different path of learning to read, write, and speak enough Russian to be self sufficient prior to purchasing my first ticket, I wonder if you guys really think that a sincere lady would hold not having done this against a potential suitor?  It would seem that she'd be more concerned as to whether he's a jackass or gentleman rather than whether he's able to read a menu.. but I honestly don't know.  I do know that my (albeit leaning toward inept but passable) communication skills and self reliance while prowling around the city sans escort did score major points of respect.  But would not having made this commitment have her leaning toward 'deal breaker'?

Really, overall I think one either does or does not attract FSU women and the latter really can't be taught to do so.  Cultural nuance can be absorbed, but the guys that don't have *it*, whatever that is, just never will.  I can't imagine some of the ones I met ever attracting any women, and especially not the ones they were chasing and drooling over.

Dave

[BC]

Living in Europe can be quite interesting.  I see all kinds of tourists from many countries without guides.  Italy is quite famous for not having translated menu's (or for even having them at all).. Haven't seen a tourist starve to death yet.

What makes RU or UA so different?  Heck anyone can learn how to say borscht and piva.

Doesn't anyone bother to study up a little about the country they are going to?  Investing one tenth of the time spent drooling over womens profiles to learn the very basics would work wonders.

It ain't rocket science, just gotta get your priorities straight.