Fed up with everything.

[Sort]

Billy.

I will have a talk with her and it will not be a easy one for neither of us.
We have talked about her coming to Sweden and meet my family and that i will not do to anyone else then the one i want to spend my life with.
And i think you are right that she needs to grow up a little and chose her words more carefuly.
If she was dissapoited about me not beeing with her on christmas that it's a crapy way of telling it by accusing me for a sex-tourist.

Im far from perfect but i don't play with peoples feelings.

[Daveman]

Billy,

I agree with your post actually.  I certainly would NOT recommend 'showering' any woman with gifts in the attempt to buy her affection.  I'm speaking of small tokens of affection she can touch, carry around with her, whatever.  These are important to some women and not so important to others. 

My main point is merely not to jump to conclusions and wait until he understands the big picture before making any decisions.  This is their first bump in the road in 5 or so months.  I think if she's been wanting to hit him up for money/gifts, the signs would have begun long before now.

About the sex comment..  we don't know her level of English, or if she's speaking Swedish and Sort is translating into English for our benefit.

One thing I've learned from the guys on this board, you included Billy, is not to hang the balance of an entire relationship on one single phrase or disagreement.  Understand first, then take action in the appropriate manner.

I think Sort has gotten over the initial shock and is thinking more clearly.  Clear thinking is the way to go every time.

Dave

[Sort]

I can say that she speaks fluent english so the language is no problem.
she knoew what she said to me and i will not let this just go by without getting some real answers.
if i am that bad than why the h**l doesnt she get a Ukrinian boyfriend.
She complained about her ex that he couldn't keep a job and was lazy.

[timothe]

My fiancee makes it real clear to me based on her actions of not wanting me for gifts or money. She does want a good, responsible and reliable man and that in itself will make for a good husband and provider for a family. Just as most of you men go out of your way to prove your love and show that you are not using your gf/wife and demand little from her, there are women that will go out of their way for you too. Find a woman who will give you the effort you give her.

Billy's last post was right on the money.  There simply should not be conversations like the one you just had, Sort.  

I suppose you can try to "straighten her out" or you can try to calmly explain that you are not using her.  But if it were me, I'd end the relations.  

[Alyona]

Sort, remember there is always two sides to every store, and that in life perception is often reality.

I hope you don't mind me saying this, but since you asked for opinions from the ladies, it sounds as if although you go to visit often, it has always been to have "fun" times.  On vacations everyone has a good time and is on their good behavior. 

Eventually things need to move on to the next level.

You say that she speaks fluent english so communication is not a problem.  If that is the case then why such a major miscommunication over the past few days?  There is more to communication to words, it is often the intention behind the words that matters the most.

It sounds like you have made many sacrifices for this woman.   Is your relationship open enough where you can share with her these sacrifices?  Would she appreciate them if she knew?

There are so many ways she could react.  It could deepen her love and affection for you that a man would be willing to do so much.  On the other hand, so many women assume western men are all rich, that if she were to come to you it could be quite a shock that you do not have your own house or apartment.

I hope that you have both been as honest as possible with each other.  Honesty, even when you do not like what you hear, is the foundation of a strong relationship. 

If you cannot be honest with each other, then I guess you will have some serious decisions and discussions ahead.

Good luck!

Alyona

[Sort]

Alyona.

"fun" times you say....
When i have been to her it is to meet my beloved. not for "fun" as you say.
And if i only was looking for fun it would hell of much cheaper to stay in Sweden and find me some fun here.

She knows that i have all my things in a storage and that when i need an apartment it will be no problem finding one either.
When i talked to her the last time i told her that we need to sit and talk and to discuss how i can plan my work so we can be together for real and not a visit of "fun".

I am allways open and honest to her about my feelings and thoughts.
she knows how much money i make and that the prices on things are very different here compare to Ukraine.
take a pack of cigarettes.
In Ukraine. 50 cent
Sweden 7 USD
Beer Ukraine: 70 cent
Sweden: 2-10 USD

what happend the last days is most likely due to Christmas and that we are apart from each other.
I will try and go to my baby as soon as possible, my heart is bleeding without her by my side.

I will not give up on this Alyona.
I will fight till the end if i have to.

[Daveman]

I don't think there is any "straightening her out"... that's more of a fantasy anyway...

He's young (I think) and she's young.

She may very well be a gold digging b!tch and needs to be kicked to the curb... HOWEVER.. we have very little of the story except one paragraph from a gentleman whose vision may be a little clouded by emotions at the moment.


This is what Sort said:

cause thats how i feel.....trying to hold on to the most precious in my life

You want to keep her? Then find her food source. Seriously... identify the food source of her heart.  This is basic Womanology 101.  What makes your woman *FEEL* most loved and cherished?  This varies from woman to woman.  Sure, they might all like typical things women like, but what really does it for her? Not sexually, but down in her soul.  That's her food and everything else is a snack.

Short, quick examples:
If she is more auditory, then she will feel the MOST loved when she hears your deep voice speak sweet nothings in her ear.  You can do whatever else you want, but she's not going to completely feel it until you give her heart that food.  If she's more tactile, she'll feel most loved when you touch her hand, kiss her fingers, stroke her hair, hold her hand... etc and so forth..

Tokens of affection can mean more or less depending upon the food of her heart.  If she's more tactile, then talking on the phone for 12 hours a day really isn't going to do it completely for her heart.  Something she can *touch, see, and show* will.  Yeah, you can put her in her place and say "by god, there's no way in hell I'll send that woman anything now"... yep, you'll be the man.. the man who just shot himself in the foot.  If a few 20 cent postcards is all that stands between you and your woman then you are miles ahead of most because you have the answer!!!  We hear guys all the time "what the hell does she want?"... hey, she just told you... postcards.. :-)  To her, these may truly have much more meaning than you would ever believe.

Long distance relationships are tough.. cross culture long distance relationships are tougher.. you gotta feed her even when you're not with her.

It's not about kissing your woman's ass. It's not about 'buying' her. It's about learning how to bring out the best in her. Period. That will benefit YOU. Don't let her push your buttons... learn how to push hers - in a good way.

Now, I agree with the others that she sure as hell could have said it a better way.. no doubt.  I've been privy to a dozen or more multi-hour conversations between Ukrainian ladies while on my extended visit in Kharkiv.  Mostly Russian, some English, trying to follow along.. (a fantastic learning experience to be inside the "enemy camp" with them thinking I understood nothing) but almost every single time one of them had something negative to say about a boyfriend, the first thing out of her mouth was something about "just wants sex" ...   Perhaps that is their conditioning from living in the patriarchal society.  Like Pavlov's dog - ring a bell, "just wants sex".  But the bottom line is - that woman wasn't feeling loved at the moment.

If you're lady is feeling something missing in her heart, "only wants sex" may very well be her first thought, and yours just happened to blurt it out where others would probably have thought it but not said it to her man.

Drill to the bottom line.. then either  kiss her or kick her. But, you take the reins and take the action.

To think she's a bad girl *only* because she wants something tangible, something to see, something to show may be an incorrect assumption.  She may or may not be.  I still say, send her the silly postcards and see if THAT still isn't good enough. If it isn't, then you have your answer. If it is, then she'll feel more loved and cherished, and YOU will reap the benefits.

Forever full of sh!t,
Dave

[Sort]

Dave.

im not that young anymore, im 36.

she is not a gold digger and she have never given me the signs of beeing either.

now when i have calm down and had time to think i can in one way understand her thinking since i am only with her for a week now and then but i will try and set up a work schedule so it will fit us both.
I can work for 2 and a half week and then be with her for one and a half week.
it will be as i am only away for work and that is exactly what i am prepared and willing to do.
Thats my reason to not have a apartment in Sweden so we can have a life together now and not have to wait that long.

I know what makes her feel loved and i am doin my best for her.
I have sent postcard and flowers and she will have a package to i hope this week with some cute things in it.

I am who i am and i want to thank all of ya here that have posted in this thread given me your side and thoughts.
Everything will work out fine for us and we will be happy.
She is what i have been looking for and she does have a temper and sometimes we all say things witouth thinking it over.

[jb]

Excellent post Dave.

I would only add one thing to you thoughts, and it probably applies to the newly married women more than to the fiancee, and that is "security".  That "heart food" you speak of is great stuff, but for the woman moving to a new country, dealing with a strange language, adapting to totally new surroundings,,, well, it's pretty easy to become the fish out of water.  A woman in that situation must feel secure, that means lots of attention most of the time.

We've been married going on 6 years, would you believe we still speak on the phone several times a day?   Without attention, the wheels seem to come off the wagon fairly quickly.   I spend a lot of time at home, I also spend some weeks away, during the time I'm at home she's pretty easy to read, but when I'm away she starts to feel lost and lonely.  I have to remind myself to be considerate of her feelings, otherwise that damned cell phone is going to ring right when I'm in the middle of a meeting.  Her "lonesome" clock is not in sync with anything I'm doing out here.

Just a thought to add to your already excellent post.

[Daveman]

Thanks jb,  excellent advice.  It seems it really is up to us to keep them, for lack of a better word, 'grounded' in the relationship.  And as you show, even more so after she arrives.  Without the attention or even the right kind of attention they begin to kind of 'float around'.  I guess this is true for all women, but seems especially true with RW relationships.  What they do or say when they are 'floating' sure can be surprising sometimes.

It makes one wonder how many relationships have died simply due to an attention deficit, or missing the signs that attention is really the underlying cause of goofy, ridiculous arguments.  It seems the arguments will always be about any other topic than the one which is actually bothering her so it would be so easy to overlook. I think that womanly "read my mind" thing must have been born in Russia.

Dave