Logistics issue in traveling to FSU

[chernoble]

I noticed while I was browsing several profiles of women I'm interested in meeting on several dating websites that they are in different cities in Russia/FSU.  And after checking on a map its not different cities that are 10-15 miles away more like cities 1000-2000 miles away.  I want to know what kind of solutions can I use if I want to meet people I'm interested in but they live in pretty distant corners of Russia or in the FSU?  I read other stories of people who found several they like on the dating sites like Elena but they are in different cities and I don't know how I can travel between them on a limited schedule.  ???

[Shadow]

planes, trains and automobiles. 

[jb]

chernoble,

I don't know where you are looking, but in a city the size of Kiev, population almost 2 million, there ought to be a few hundred women you might be interested in meeting.  If that's not dense enough odds, go to Moscow where the population is over 10 million.  The point is, concentrate your search to those areas where you have the greatest chance of finding someone without having to travel 10 time zones where you would waste all your vacation days just getting there.  Pick one good sized city and look at profiles from that city only.    Don't scatter your efforts all over the FSU in one go.

[Taz]

May I suggest a different approach? Either concentrate up front geogprahically as mentioned OR write to about 100 different women (or however many you want) and see what area YOU get the most replies back from.

I sort of call it the shotgun approach. Shoot out a lot of letters and see what region has the most interest in YOU! It is modified version of the purely geographical approach. I'd also suggest running an ad in  a city as well as a good option. Don't be too selective at first but make sure they meet your minimum criteria.

[I/O]

On this one, JB sings a similar tune as I do. Many FSU cities are in the vicinity of 1 million people or more, roughly 53% of them will be women, can't find enough in that lot? :hairraising:

Shoot one paddock out afore ya go shootin' in the next.

Chernoble, the above doesn't answer your question, but it will fix the problem. Your call.

I/O

[BillyB]

I sort of call it the shotgun approach. Shoot out a lot of letters and see what region has the most interest in YOU! It is modified version of the purely geographical approach.

I like the shotgun approach. I'd rather choose women who are into me based on correspondence and then make plans to go where she/they live rather than choose a city and then correspond. I'd then say goodbye to the other women I was corresponding with but leave the door open in case plan A didn't work out. If choosing a city before women, I probably would've never would have chosen Tashkent and like most men, I would have picked Kiev, Moscow, and St Petersburg.

[chernoble]

Yeah I used the shotgun approach and the websites I was checking out the most recent profiles all come from women in different cities very far away from each other.  I did not find a majority of women profiles in Moscow or St. Pete b/c if I had I would not be having this problem.

But from that shotgun approach I have several women who emailed me and are interested.  But they all live in cities more like a plane ride away instead of a stone's throw away.  And one of them even lives in another country in FSU outside Russia so its making this a hard choice.  So its like I got interest from women but they are sprinkled all over Russia and FSU instead of mostly concentrated in a single area.  Its a tough choice but I've resigned myself to making a journey to see one or maybe two women in the same area.  I'm going to have to talk and communicate a lot with each girl to make the choice which one I am feeling most compatible with and in the end choose one or two of them geographically b/c its impossible for me to travel that far after I get to Russia/FSU.

What I'm concerned about is my Plan B b/c I'm definitely going to need a Plan B in case things don't work out.  But I'm no local and I can't speak Russian so I'm not sure where to look for the agencies that Taz seem to have a homing device for in the city I'm planning on visiting just in case of emergency if I'm left out in the cold after traveling so far 

[jb]

Stay home, you aren't ready for a trip to the FSU yet.

[Ronnie]

My first trip (odessa) was a result of correspondence and telephone calls.  Oh, were we "into" each other...until we met.  You and she can write and talk on the phone all you want..it only serves to build a mental image..an image that has no chance of being fulfilled when you meet. 
Writing is fun and the new relationship is exciting...but if you want to take a more direct and pragmatic approach, pick a country...I prefered Ukraine after having visited it and Russia..then pick a city or two...not too small is my advice.  The contact a reputable agency there..and let them know when you'd like to come and be introduced and let them arrange an apartment and tell them you'd like them to play matchmaker..(actually they're good at it...it's why they got into the business).  After you arrive they will size you up as they already have done with their ladies and arrange meetings.  The rest is up to you.
I recommend this approach.. It's economical, time efficient and likely to produce better results than any approach I know.

Ps...if you aren't crazy about your job...apply elsewhere but get lots of lead time before starting..maybe 3 months.  Then give notice and use the break for an extended, 2-3 month visit.  This will give you plenty of time to let things work out while you're there.  I was fortunate in I that I wa able to do it this way..spending most of the 2 years in FSU.  I walked away from situations that turned bad after weeks of getting to know one another.

[chivo]

Stay home, you aren't ready for a trip to the FSU yet.

lol. Quite possible. But...

Maybe the poster can arrange to be in an interesting city, say Moscow, Kiev, Piter, etc., and have the ladies come to him. Or maybe a city within a short distance from other decent size cities, Kharkov comes to mind.

Saves a lot of time (possibly money), if you can manage with everyone's schedule. If you really click with one, you then can concentrate on her, wherever she's from.

You basically would be wasting your time running around the FSU, especially if this is your first time.

It will also allow you to date some other women in any particular city you choose, as well as giving you more options bringing in new women from around the area (say an overnight train ride), and allowing yourself to get acquainted with how things work in the FSU.

Don't get caught up with the idea that you MUST make a choice or else. Take your time and understand what you're up against. Just an idea, but...

chivo

PS Ronnie's approach is similar and quite good.   

[Bruce]

First time in FSU, no language skills, you've just looked at a map and realize Russia is a big country - * please use a small full service agency in one city.  It is an excellent way to dip your water into the FSU and will free you up to maximize your time safely in the FSU.  A small city in Russia has more than enough slngle women for you if you know what you are doing.  Large cities may intimidate you, but there are definitely more single women the bigger the city you go to.  I have found agencies more responsive in smaller cities.  Call Jack, Marc Dayton.  Do your homework.

[Shadow]

Stay home, you aren't ready for a trip to the FSU yet.

I agree with jb here. You seem to be too eager to succeed on a first trip, and that often leads to disaster later on. A visit to the FSU can be overwhelming, as your idea of how the country looks will be probably be changed forever. Add to that the power of a woman by your side and some vodka, and you will be in big trouble.
Think of how you are going to plan the visit, as it will probably not be received well if you engage plan B only when plan A does not work out. And if you plan to visit more than one woman, plan to make multiple trips as the first one will not be decisive, and should not be.

[Faux Pas]

Stay home, you aren't ready for a trip to the FSU yet.

LOL....jb, seems your kind of hard on the lad. Although it does has some merit. Chernoble, one thing for sure is you can't get 10 lbs of poop into a 5 lb sack. I first say slow down. What is your hurry? Of course you can always throw darts at a map of Russia and plan your trip accordingly but that way it isn't advised by most here.

You said you are writing some women, keep writing them until you find one you are sure you'd rather visit over all the others. If you wish to go the WMVM route, then write some others in the same city or region before you go.

Russia and the FSU is obviously a wide, vast mass of land. Finding these women won't happen as easily as picking cherries in an orchard unless of course you have years to travel the country and find some lady suitable to you.

I say again, start with your writing and one or several will stand out for a visit then pick one. If the WOVO is the way for you, go for that one. If the WMVM is the way for you, then write to many in the area of the one you know you wish to visit. Then as the advice is so prevalent here, get off your ass and go.

[chernoble]

The contact a reputable agency there..and let them know when you'd like to come and be introduced and let them arrange an apartment and tell them you'd like them to play matchmaker..(actually they're good at it...it's why they got into the business). 

Ok but where do I look for a reputable agency in a local city?  The ones I’m looking at (Elena, etc) all seem to be too general for the whole country and FSU region.  I’m right now narrowing my choices to Moscow, St. Petersberg, Kiev, and Perm.  Where can I look to find local reputable (non-scam) agencies in those places once I choose the place to go in the future?

I say again, start with your writing and one or several will stand out for a visit then pick one. If the WOVO is the way for you, go for that one. If the WMVM is the way for you, then write to many in the area of the one you know you wish to visit. Then as the advice is so prevalent here, get off your ass and go.

What do WOVO and WMVM stand for?

[Shadow]

This is the time to point you to the menu there you find things like the RWD FAQ and other valid resources.

Just in case you do not find the info: Write One Visit One and Write Many Visit Many.
One of the ever lasting debates. 

[chernoble]

Don't worry Shadow I have the guts and perseverance to be patient in my search and tough it out.  I have all the willpower in the world to succeed and I have just searched through the FAQ and found nothing about local agency listings in Russia 

[catzenmouse]

Chernoble,

 Perhaps it would be wise to use some of that perserverance to read through the Reviews, RWDpedia, Trip Reports, and use the search feature which will give you access to many varied reviews of different agencies.

 Also contact Elena's and ask them who is the local agency for the cities that you would be interested in. You can then contact them directly (hopefully Elena's would give you that information) and you can get more information from them.

FWIW,
 Ken

[Daveman]

Ken, glad to see you..

Excellent suggestion about Elena's.. I never thought to do that..

Nothing I would suggest that hasn't already been suggested, so...
Just a couple of thoughts about large vs smaller cities...

Larger cities : more ladies, more options who will already speak English a little better, the caveat is more Status Queens, Pro Daters, etc, to weed through to get to the good ones..

Smaller cities: fewer ladies who will speak English well enough to really get to know her, fewer options, perhaps fewer available agencies, more may have the "escape from here" mentality, but also fewer Pro's and Status queen's to deal with.

Tourist Cities (Odessa, Sochi, etc) - a major number of Status Queens and Pros to deal with.. Avoid these cities if you don't really understand how to recognize the weeds in the garden.. they'll shred you.

Dave

[Ronnie]

I agree with the previous posts about large and small cities.  Good bet is to try medium cities like Dnepropetrovsk, Kherson, Poltava (known locally as a city of beautiful women) and Mariupol.  The Angelika network has at least one agency in each of these cities. 
I did not find the Odessa ladies to be as described... I kinda liked the Ulitsa Deribosovskaya atmosphere and the Opera House is a great place to go on a date. 
Learn enough Russian to feel comfortable taking a train and you solve many logistics problems.  If you need a primer on train travel I'm sure we have enough of us who can write a primer on the subject if there's not already one in the archives.

I'm not sure I understand JB's comment about not being ready.  You gotta get behind the wheel at some point..if you've got the time and money.. a first hand visit will give your valuable experience.. Just don't make any proposals on the first trip .

[Ronnie]

I will relate one more bit of my experience in the summer of '02 I traveled extensively throughout Russia, Czech, Poland and Ukraine.  I stated and ended in Ukraine.  I was struck by the impression that the Ukrainian women were better proportioned, more feminine and seem to be more home-oriented. 
This was confirmed to me by a Russian man I met fishing recently her in California, when he asked me how it was I spoke Russian, I told him I'm married to a Ukrainian.  He said, "Ukrainian women are the best"
Getting visa to go to Russia each time is a hassle..No visa required for USC's and Canadians to enter Ukraine.

[catzenmouse]

Ronnie,

 While I understand your position I think I can speak for many of us here who are married to Russian woman when I say "you are wrong!"

 Yes, the visa is a hassle but not enough that is should stop anyone from going to Russia if they have a mind to.

 In the end the best place for us to find a wife is where we find her. Be that Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, or next door to where you live.

Ken

P. S. Hey Daveman! Hope all is well way down there in GA

[Shadow]

Visa for Russia is not a big thing at all. Russia wants the money, if you pay they set the stamp.
I arived in Moscow on a visa fo St Petersburg, and bothon entry and on exit got nothing more that a smile and a stamp. Play by their rules and Russians do not care about anything.

PS:
Georgia reminds me of the Super Show in Atlanta... got some smiles from a great US woman...if only I would have been without my boss I might be posting on AmericanWomenDiscussion now...

[Daveman]

I did not find the Odessa ladies to be as described... I kinda liked the Ulitsa Deribosovskaya atmosphere and the Opera House is a great place to go on a date.

I love Odessa... it's one of my favorite cities.. the Opera House is amazing, there's another fabulous theater there, though the name escapes me, which was being used for both larger and smaller productions while the OH was under renovations.. the Catacombs are a must see.. many fantastic museums - art, archaeological, science, truly a *FUN* city in every way.. and of course, can't forget the beach areas.    It's not called the "Pearl of the Black Sea" for no good reason..

But I did see more of the type of ladies who would 'cling' to tourists for the ride... many western guys walking around the streets with ladies carrying freshly purchased items... multiple bags from the various boutiques.. the things which make you say "Hmmmmmmmm"..    I would say "There goes a Klingon!!" or "Set phasers to milkemdry" whenever I saw one, and of course the lady I was with never got the joke and wanted an explanation.. she's the one who explained to me in great detail how many ladies there behave... zeroing in on the target 'tourists' and getting what they can, and if someone is rich enough to bring 'status', would consider marriage, measuring men by how expensive the gifts and comparing with their friends... etc...  wanting to live in Odessa but have a foreign man buy her a flat, perhaps marry her, but she live in the luxuriously new status rich building while he works over seas and visits her on occasion...  A friend of mine from Sochi has said something almost identical...

I'm sure there are roughly a gazillion sincere ladies in Odessa or any other tourist city... but for someone with Cher's experience and knowledge, I think he'd be very easy pickin' for the less than sincere ones.  He'd never know what hit him.

a first hand visit will give you valuable experience.. Just don't make any proposals on the first trip .

Absofrigginlutely...

Dave

[Ronnie]

Catzenmous..An opinion is neither right or wrong...it's an opinion.  Yes, the best woman comes from the place she comes from..  But the topic is logistics and one cannot be running all over the continent on dates.  One must focus to be efficient and my advice is Ukraine for the reasons mentioned. 
One reason that might make one think twice about Russia: my wife has several Russian friends here in California and they all seem to be in love with Putin.  They can't seem to accept that he is tried and true "chekist" who wants to rekindle the cold war and revert to the old ways of ruling by intimidation and fear - ask the Russian journalists..those who are still alive.
A Russian doctor I met in Rome last month defended Putin's taking about the rights of citizens to nominate candidates for governor (he appoints the "candidate") by explaining that when the elections where open, only the rich oligarchs had a chance.  Unbelievable mindset IMO.
Beware too, there are many with this pro-Putin, ethnic Russians in Ukraine.  I would inquire about their views on a first date in order to avoid a domestic "cold war" at home in the future.  Fortunately, my wife is pro-Ukraine, anti-Putin...smart girl.

[Ronnie]

Visa for Russia is not a big thing at all. Russia wants the money, if you pay they set the stamp.

Shadow,
As a travel agent, I assist people in getting a visa for Russia.  It's more of a hassle for Americans than for others since Russia (Putin) wants to retaliate for our asking security questions on our application so we have added questions we must answer and I expect we pay more of a fee than you plus photos and shipping costs.
No visa for Ukraine.