Are we all nuts?

[scottpull]

My opinion about the Russian woman thing is kind of jaded now. I almost think we're all nuts trying to get this to work. Of the women online who seem legit, not many are that attractive. I know I'm taking a risk saying that but I mean not anymore than what's here. Ok, maybe in general they're not as heavy as here. That's a given. And forget babes. Especially guys like me who are pushing 50. There is also tons of scamming angles by the women and the agencies. It's like you have to roll the dice in so many areas and then spend time, energy and money to get over there and put up with all kinds of shady people or people who you don't know if they're shady or not. Is that fun? To me it isn't. I'd say 80% of all the agencies and women only care about swindling your $$. I've been to Ukraine and/or Russia 3 or 4 times. I never fell in love and found the women to be similar in attitude to that of Americans. I mean a woman is a woman. Some are stuck up, or *****y, or friendly or whatever. So I'm in a quandary about it. I'm on Elena's models and consistently get turned down by the attractive ones. They know they're attractive. The ones who seem to really want to correspond with me are not all that attractive, or are attractive but have a kid or two - always something.  Maybe that sounds shallow but that's what all these sites market - very attractive women.  So the pull for me to do it is barely there. It almost seems like a big joke. I'm actually looking at Asians more. I like the attractiveness of the Russians but tired of their BS.

[Shadow]

RW are not fools. They will not jump at the first opportunity to leave their country. It seems that you know what you want, but still hunt what you say yourself is out of reach.
Perhaps a look in the mirror will help you out. Find out who you are, what you are and what is your future in life. Then find out exactly what you look for, without going out of what you think is realistic for the guy you saw in the mirror. Once you have done that, go out there and find a woman that matches.
There is no limit on where to look. Can be the FSU, can be Asia, can be Western Europe or South America or even a couple of blocks down the road. There are millions of women in the world,but you need to find only one.

[Daveman]

Of course, ladies listed with agencies are but a small fraction of the single, available, female population.  Certainly agencies would attract more of the problem children.  I'm leaning toward breaking away from agencies completely.  ICQ is filled with ladies from everywhere who will chat with you.  Placing paper ads, while not a huge medium for this endeavor, does reach some more uncharted territory.  Every city in FSU has a gob of sincere ladies.  Elenas is easy, armchair courting so to speak.  Pay a fee and start clickin' the mouse.  I think we get out of this a commensurate result with the effort we are willing to put forth.  Many have gotten lucky on Elenas, so all happiness and success to those.  Many of the "babes" there have been there for at least two years... no doubt being chased by some of the most wealthy and most handsome gentlemen around the world.  So either they are ultra picky, or they are window dressing to get you into the shop.

Realistic expectations play a major role in this.  Even a sincere lady who is very attractive isn't going to want to be with Quasimodo, living in the tower and listening to the bell ring all day.  Not at all insinuating you fall into this category.  If you could get her here, you can get her there... if you can't get her here, you *may* get her there, but you definitely have to have something to offer.  If she's way out of your normal league, the chances are pretty slim.

And I agree, women are women everywhere.  It ain;t for everyone and it might not be for me either.. time will tell.

Good luck with it wherever you wind up..

Dave

[KenC]

My opinion about the Russian woman thing is kind of jaded now. I almost think we're all nuts trying to get this to work. Of the women online who seem legit, not many are that attractive. I know I'm taking a risk saying that but I mean not anymore than what's here. Ok, maybe in general they're not as heavy as here. That's a given. And forget babes. Especially guys like me who are pushing 50. There is also tons of scamming angles by the women and the agencies. It's like you have to roll the dice in so many areas and then spend time, energy and money to get over there and put up with all kinds of shady people or people who you don't know if they're shady or not. Is that fun? To me it isn't. I'd say 80% of all the agencies and women only care about swindling your $$. I've been to Ukraine and/or Russia 3 or 4 times. I never fell in love and found the women to be similar in attitude to that of Americans. I mean a woman is a woman. Some are stuck up, or *****y, or friendly or whatever. So I'm in a quandary about it. I'm on Elena's models and consistently get turned down by the attractive ones. They know they're attractive. The ones who seem to really want to correspond with me are not all that attractive, or are attractive but have a kid or two - always something.  Maybe that sounds shallow but that's what all these sites market - very attractive women.  So the pull for me to do it is barely there. It almost seems like a big joke. I'm actually looking at Asians more. I like the attractiveness of the Russians but tired of their BS.

Scott,
Probably all that you say here is true.  In fact, I would venture to say that significantly more men fail at this pursuit than succeed.  But you must also look at the overall possibilities of meeting your perfect woman any where in the world.  We know statistically that 50% of marriages end in divorce here, but how may of the other 50% are truly happy?  I would venture to say less than half, and probably a lot less (30% ?).  So as a result, we see maybe 10 to 15% of all marriages ending in total bliss?  When you add the additional difficulties associated with a marriage to a woman from any foreign country and culture, that number is sure to fall again by half to 5 to 7%.  That is a rather discouraging number if you stop and think about it.  Of course these numbers are far from scientific, just one man's opinion (but also a man that has been exposed to a large number of these relationships over the last 9 years).

That being said, you also must truly identify your motivations in finding a mate.   Are you just seeking a younger, prettier woman than you can find at home?  Or are you seeking a true soul mate?  I suggest that your criteria is a little suspect.  No matter what the generalities are for RW or Asian women, you will eventually be dealing with one specific woman.  Choose wisely and your life can be heaven.  Make the wrong choice and you will be in hell.

I met and fell hopelessly in love with a woman 9 years ago who just happened to be Russian.  She fits some of the general character traits of "RW" written about here and does not fit in some others, but after 9 years together, I know she fits with me and I with her.  When you find true love (no matter where you find it) it is a wonderful thing.  Good luck to you.
KenC

[Daveman]

...after 9 years together, I know she fits with me and I with her.  When you find true love (no matter where you find it) it is a wonderful thing.  Good luck to you.
KenC

Fabulous post KenC... I only highlighted this part of it, but really a gem among gems.  So many of us miss that simple truth and reality of relationships, myself included more often than I would like to admit...  that's the basic bottom line for success and fulfillment.. she fits with you and you with her.. with that foundation, you can build a lasting love which endures the test of time.  Thanks..

Dave

[groovlstk]

I'm on Elena's models and consistently get turned down by the attractive ones. They know they're attractive. The ones who seem to really want to correspond with me are not all that attractive, or are attractive but have a kid or two - always something.  Maybe that sounds shallow but that's what all these sites market - very attractive women.  So the pull for me to do it is barely there. It almost seems like a big joke. I'm actually looking at Asians more. I like the attractiveness of the Russians but tired of their BS.

Sounds to me like your expectations are unrealistic. You can certainly find more beautiful women in Russia but you can only "trade up" so far. If you are unable to date attractive women in the US then you can forget about the 9s and 10s in Russia, as the competition is fierce. Yes, we're men and a doubtless a bit shallow, but if all you want is a pretty puppy you're in for a lot of disappointment.

[Bruce]

I do not think guys still looking for a wife from the FSU are nuts.  If you look in the "Economist 2008 World Facts Book"  you would see that in Russia there are 86 men for each 100 women; Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Belorussia have 85 men for each 100 women.  True women outlive men, but the life expectancy in those countries, especially Belorussia and Russia is low for both men and women (lower of course for men).  Therefore, the odds of finding a more physically appealling women for you is greater.  The odds of finding a smarter woman just as devoted as one you would find here is greater as well.  By the way, the numbers in Ukraine are virtually equal, like most of the rest of the Western World ie. 98, 99 or 100 men for every 100 women.  The third world countries, like Pakistan, Egypt etc. have 107 men for every 100 women (if you can call them that there).  No wonder those guys are always on the war path. 

If I were you I would expand your search to small local full service agencies in addition to looking and writing on the free sites and Elena's models.  Nothing theoretically should help you more than professionals on the ground.  Paying a bit up front is well worth it.  You are not getting any younger.  If I were you I would start with contacting the Marc Dayton's of the world. 

[Misha]

I knew a fifty-ish, not very attractive man who married a very attractive woman 20 years younger. In a few years, she left him and found herself a young hottie. The moral of the story: you want a relationship founded on more than looks, otherwise even if you do get married and she does join you in your country, you risk being dumped like a hot potato at the first opportunity.

[KenC]

Fabulous post KenC... I only highlighted this part of it, but really a gem among gems.  So many of us miss that simple truth and reality of relationships, myself included more often than I would like to admit...  that's the basic bottom line for success and fulfillment.. she fits with you and you with her.. with that foundation, you can build a lasting love which endures the test of time.  Thanks..

Dave

Glad you liked it, Dave,
It really isn't brain surgery, now is it?  If you do not allow for interpersonal growth within the relationship, it is all reduced to picking a puppy as I see it.
KenC

[BC]

I do not think guys still looking for a wife from the FSU are nuts.  If you look in the "Economist 2008 World Facts Book"  you would see that in Russia there are 86 men for each 100 women; Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Belorussia have 85 men for each 100 women.  True women outlive men, but the life expectancy in those countries, especially Belorussia and Russia is low for both men and women (lower of course for men).  Therefore, the odds of finding a more physically appealling women for you is greater.  The odds of finding a smarter woman just as devoted as one you would find here is greater as well.  By the way, the numbers in Ukraine are virtually equal, like most of the rest of the Western World ie. 98, 99 or 100 men for every 100 women.  The third world countries, like Pakistan, Egypt etc. have 107 men for every 100 women (if you can call them that there).  No wonder those guys are always on the war path. 

Bruce,

IIRC Bruno posted some age distribution charts somewhere here in the archives that showed that there is very little M/F percentage differences at the ages most guys here are looking at.. (20 to 35 or so).

[Serebro]

I agree with groov

Sounds to me like your expectations are unrealistic. You can certainly find more beautiful women in Russia but you can only "trade up" so far. If you are unable to date attractive women in the US then you can forget about the 9s and 10s in Russia, as the competition is fierce.

From the post you wrote you don't seem to be a very smart person saying that a woman is a woman, yes, everyone knows that, women are women everywhere and you don't have to be 50 to understand that.

I mean a woman is a woman. Some are stuck up, or *****y, or friendly or whatever.

yes, they are human beings with feelings and emotions and they have their points of view.

It looks like you are in search of a beautiful quiet brainless doll to play with and who will not cause big problems... you coudln't find the one in the US, you were dissapointed in the FSU, so you turned to Asians...

It almost seems like a big joke. I'm actually looking at Asians more

at the same time there are lots of happily married men on this board so I can see no reason to start a thread with a name like

Are we all nuts?

just because at the age of 50 you still have to realize that women are women...
if all women seem to be bad at the age when you are 50 look for the reason in yourself..

[catzenmouse]

Good post Serebro. I also believe (though we really don't know a damn thing about the OP) that this is a "sour grapes" post/thread.

KenC,

It really isn't brain surgery, now is it?  If you do not allow for interpersonal growth within the relationship, it is all reduced to picking a puppy as I see it.

 Therein lies a very large problem with those just venturing into this. Agency hype, other boards where they either spout the agency BS or spend all the time fighting with each other, thinking coming from below the belt are all seriously detrimental to being successful in this adventure.

 The simple fact that RWD exists AND that so many of those OMB's like you and JB and a few others care enough to keep it real and dispute the BS from the wannabes and simple ID-10-T's is one of the main reasons that I stay here. Plenty of times I have been ready to dump this place due to the influx of these ID-10-T's but I know that even though we've been doing fine for 3 years (tomorrow) there are tons of things to learn. Hell, I learn a bunch of stuff from some of the brain in tact newbies too.

Sorry for the topic drift,
 Ken

[catzenmouse]

P. S. To the original question: Duh! Yes...

[KenC]

Good post Serebro. I also believe (though we really don't know a damn thing about the OP) that this is a "sour grapes" post/thread.

KenC,

 Therein lies a very large problem with those just venturing into this. Agency hype, other boards where they either spout the agency BS or spend all the time fighting with each other, thinking coming from below the belt are all seriously detrimental to being successful in this adventure.

 The simple fact that RWD exists AND that so many of those OMB's like you and JB and a few others care enough to keep it real and dispute the BS from the wannabes and simple ID-10-T's is one of the main reasons that I stay here. Plenty of times I have been ready to dump this place due to the influx of these ID-10-T's but I know that even though we've been doing fine for 3 years (tomorrow) there are tons of things to learn. Hell, I learn a bunch of stuff from some of the brain in tact newbies too.

Sorry for the topic drift,
 Ken

Ken,
You are wrong, that IS the topic!  What usually happens here is a guy goes over meets an acceptable woman and proceeds into matrimony.  (The guy also meets the minimum requirements of the woman too.  And that can be as deep as his blue passport)  Any way, this "couple" (and I use that term very loosely) may have a good beginning to a relationship, but are no where close to committing to marriage, but they do any way.  I don't know if it is the agency hype, the desperation of the two people or just some kind of blind faith that it all will be OK.  That is such total Bullsh!t.  There just aint no shortcuts to developing a loving relationship.  The two need to spend time together to know every intimate detail about each other.  And I am not speaking of the horizontal mambo here.  I am talking about how the two will work through life together as a unit.

If the newbies want to hear they need to spend X amount of dollars and take 2.35 trips over a period of 18 months, 2 weeks and 3 1/2 days, they all would be happy campers.  They would think  "Ah hah, now I know the formula for success!"
 
Sorry, fellas, it just aint so.  Developing a loving relationship takes time.  If it is too inconvenient for you to spend the time because the lady lives in a foreign country, don't go.  It is just that simple.

Hell, we even have a joker telling everyone that he has a stronger relationship with a RW (that he has never met) through video chats than most married guys.  (Oh yeah, and this is the same idjit that was completely in love with a different RW a month or so ago)  I guess there is one born every day.
 :selfharm:
KenC

[SANDRO43]

I guess there is one born every day.

May I remind you of a wise quote I posted long ago:

"La madre dei cretini è sempre incinta"

(the mother of idiots is always pregnant) .

[Voyageur]

Scottpull,

I've been to Ukraine and/or Russia 3 or 4 times. I never fell in love and found the women to be similar in attitude to that of Americans. I mean a woman is a woman. Some are stuck up, or *****y, or friendly or whatever. So I'm in a quandary about it. I'm on Elena's models and consistently get turned down by the attractive ones. They know they're attractive. The ones who seem to really want to correspond with me are not all that attractive, or are attractive but have a kid or two - always something.

I can sincerely say that I don't know where you have been going, but in my experience the attitudes of the FSU women I have found to be much different than the attitudes of western women.  Maybe the attitudes are becoming more similar in the largest of cities there.   But even in these cities there I have found (except for the odd scammers I have met  ) different attitudes towards establishing a strong family life that I did not find in Western Women. I do qualify this by saying that I have not been in the search mode over there for over three years now (happily  ) but I can't imagine that things have changed that much in recent times.  To me, it is all how the FSU family emphasized the division between being male and female. Generally, women love to act like women in the FSU - they love to have doors opened for them, to receive flowers, to have dinner ordered for them, to have wine poured by their man.

I agree with your view that - to some extent, "women are women" at their core. The key is how they have been programmed in their culture. Women's work versus men's work is pretty clearly defined. The man must always be the good provider and a real man to keep the respect of a good FSU woman. Smart women also "know their price" or will learn their price quickly upon arrival in the west.   Result - as also stated in this thread competition is higher more is expected from a relationship.

I am sure with the realization of a more open society in these countries and he proliferation of households with easy internet access in recent years, that the price  a woman believes that she can command has risen as economic conditions have improved. As someone else said up-thread, look in the mirror.  What does a woman looking for a better life and a husband see when you approach, speak or write to her?

Are you looking for a trophy?  Are you looking for a large age difference relationship?  If so, do you have the personal wherewithal to pull it off?  Are you just looking for compatibility with someone closer to your age that does not have children?  It is quite rare for a FSU woman to not want children, in my experience. Society in the FSU places a great deal of emphasis on having children and grandchildren.  If you find a woman without children you should temper your expectations about the future after considering her desire to start a family with children.  What does she want?  How does that compare with what you want, as far as children are concerned?  All parties should discuss their positions thoroughly before any commitments are made.  It is definitely a deal breaker in my opinion.

[catzenmouse]

Hell, we even have a joker telling everyone that he has a stronger relationship with a RW (that he has never met) through video chats than most married guys.  (Oh yeah, and this is the same idjit that was completely in love with a different RW a month or so ago)  I guess there is one born every day.

Yeah, I have been enjoying the prelude to the train wreck from this one.

Not only is one born every day but some of them are "extra special" to boot...

[I/O]

Scott: Tell ya what the problem is, if they are seeming unpleasant and not much better than you can find at home. You are being too sensible with your approach, you need to aim much younger :brightidea:......ya know, try for one of them 18 Y/O's, geeeeeeeeeeeez they're hot and they'll be over in a flash, not to mention, if ya get em young enough, ya can train em like a pup, then they won't give ya all that b!tchy stuff, they'll just put out and shut up, might even wash your socks too.

Point is, nobody said this was an easier way to find a soulmate, other than the B/Sers. This is exactly that, finding a soulmate and being stupid enough (As many of us are/have been) to take the road less travelled, it is NOT about "Getting one of them", be-it Russian, Asian, Latin, Black White or Brindle.

I'm actually looking at Asians more

Personally, I think you will be singing the same tune regarding Asia in a short enough time. Many of those girls are (And they have every right to be) fairly picky also.

I/O

[timothe]

First off, Ken C's first post was just outstanding for me.  I hope for exactly what you have Ken.  (not Lena specifically, but I want to love my Olga for 9 years of marriage the way you love your Lena)

By the same token, I completely understand Scottpull's position.  The idea of going to FSU again after going there five times and not finding anybody was very disconcerting to me.  After 2004, I resigned myself to the fact that I wasn't going to be able to find anyone in FSU either, so I quit going. 

Scottpull, you have to decide for yourself what you want out of life and how much of yourself you will give to finding love, whether it's in the FSU, China, South America, or in your own backyard.  To me, it seems like an awfully big world to assume there is no one out there for you.  By the same token, most women don't want to fully commit themselves to someone who is not entirely invested in them as well. 

If you really think that sincerity in the women you meet is the only problem, then there are solutions to that problem.  You can forego the agencies and instead, put out an advertisement in local Russian/Ukrainian newspapers.  You can use translate.ru to peruse Russian language dating sites.  You can visit places off the beaten path like Moldova or Uzbekistan. (sp)  Try to get under the surface to meet with one or more women that have never seen a foreign man. 

Then again, whereever you go you have to take yourself with you.  The problems you are having may simply be between the ears.  I don't know how to help you fix that problem.  For me, I had to become significantly less selfish and more mature than I was when I started this adventure six years ago.  As one very lovely Russian lady told me once..."Each person will enter the Adult club in their own time, some...never."

Good luck to you.       

[jb]

I'm coming very late to the party,,, but this strikes me as odd:

Especially guys like me who are pushing 50.

~snip~

The ones who seem to really want to correspond with me are not all that attractive, or are attractive but have a kid or two - always something.

Just what is it that you want?  If you can define your criteria, perhaps we can help. 

When I was in my 50's I saw nothing wrong with a beautiful woman in her 30's, with a kid or two,,, in fact, I married her when she was in her mid 40's.  Guess what,,, now she's pushing 50 something'ish, and is still quite a looker.  I couldn't be happier with the woman I've chosen to spend my life with.  And I'm damned sure proud of the way my two stepsons have turned out.

If you are going to say you are 50'ish, and want an attractive girl, 20'ish, with no children or a past history, I sure don't want to hear you whine about your plight.   Men can make fools of themselves all they want, just don't expect others to sympathize with you and your self inflicted problems.
Seems to me you have a bad case of unrealistic expectations.  As was suggested up thread, it's time to take a long and critical look in the mirror.

Besides, to suggest that those of us who have enjoyed some measure of success with RWs are not quite right in the head, "nuts" was your word, is a little insulting, both to the men and to their wives.

[Jumper]

I can undrstand someone becoming discouraged and jaded.


A few unsuccesful trips,, meeting noone that really interested you, would do that.
The odds are long, and this is not an easier path, rather it is a harder one.



now that said;

This, like anything in life, is what you make of it.

you are now considering Asian Women.


If you flew to any large USA city..
used some dating sites ,or place slike 'its just lunch or great expectations etc etc
to arrange some dates

and went and spent  a week or two , ,about 3 or 4 times over a few years..
what would be the odds of meeeting someone yoi uqwould ultimately marry and be compatable and happy with?
and thats in your own culture and language..

it wouldnt be wasted time though/ as you would indeed meet people ,
and give your self the oppurtunity to meet that one special person
that sitting at home likely wouldnt provide.

I never counted on finding ANYthing at all in the FSU ,
other than a bit of adventure in another culture..
and opening up a few more possibilties than NOT going.
I did not have the goal of filling a wife vacancy..
but was open to be seriuos if meeting someone special.

so there would be little reason to ever be disappointed or jaded..
also since women are indeed people everywhere,,and have the same wants,
 needs ,dreams, as most any other human..
i wouldnt be disaapointed in any women,  from any given culture, inclusive of my own..

So i feel it is all in how you look at it.

You mention that they all the RW you met, had this problem, or that attitude, or this shotrtcoming , or children.... 

umm..
 we are all human,,and we all have something that could be looked at as some type of shortcoming?

Finding a person  that matches your expectations, might take mor ethan a few trips to the FSU, or to any local city in your area, or to asia..

your expe4ctatins may be quite grounded..
but they also may be iunreasonable
and need to be adjusted

If any attractive Russian (or asian) female, with no children,, and no real faults,,
were to give you a good cat scan
(as RW are very good at) would you not have anything lacking? the perfect man?

if so look for that perfect mate.

if not dont expect a 'perfect' woman,, to accept your faults or shortcomings because she is from the FSU or Asia..

While appearing the most difficult ,
i believe the easiest path to success..
is to truly work on the things you can, about yourself,
 to become a man that the type of woman you aspire to *wants*, in any culture ,
including your own.


As far as FSU women not being different, i both agree and disagree.

I have seen much the same situations in the FSU as you describe..
you can find many similarities in all peoples world wide.


but there are indeed some key differences in a woman raised in FSU culture.
I know many here in my area,., that moved to the US for jobs and later married.
almost everyone on them  displays certain distinctively eastern cultural traits.
(both good and bad ones lol)
 
I find almost all of them to be very good people,,very loyal to thier families,dolting over thier children, truly enjoy life,  and generally very sharp and highly educated.

(to be fair, i know friends married to amazing AW as well)
 
but you certainly could do far worse than married to a good RW.

I do not believe they are that difficult to find,
I have met in my life a cant imagine how many that would make any man a wonderful wife.

perhaps you were unlucky ,
and perhaps it is just that in this huge world it is sometimes still very hard to find that perfect person ,who both matches us well ,
and we match thier expectations as well....


There are a lot of landmines in these scenerios..
but i doubt they lessen when going to asia ,or any other culture...

Locally is still the best odds , its just common sense , despite this forums subject..

so yes ultimately , we are all crazy. LOL!


i'm incredibly happy ,that i have always been a bit crazy,
and was silly enough to take many chances along this path...
 

but in my own case,
no matter any outcome, I would have had a blast and found it  a wonderful experience..
as it turned out, it was so much more.


I wish you luck whatever you decide!

but i would suggest to think about just how difficult it would be to pick *one*
 US city and decide your bride ,that meets your exact expectations,
is going to be from there,
then spend a week or two there each year to make it happen..

the level of difficulty is simply high, anywhere ,and yes another culture entirely does not make it easier, quicker, or less expensive.

[Jumper]

jb- LOL!
hey my wife IS nuts, don't know about yours
I love her to death, but yeah she is nuts,certifiable,,and admits it.. lol
,heck its part of what i love about her afterall..

and me? I'm completey sane,, and grounded !!
lol


Seriuosly, I do agree that the OP's expectations seem a little odd considering his age, i dint catch that in the orignal post.
I'm a bit younger and still expected a child to be part of the equation,thats just life.
in fact i was looking for a woman who was family oriented, so it would be expected that she had children.

 I know that is a deal breaker for some, and that is thier choice..
but they certainly limit thier field of quality women if they look exclusively
(in any culture)  for those without children.

there are plenty of RW without kids still as well...

i dint have to beat RW off with a stick or anything,
but i certainly have met plenty that would make most any guy a very good spouse.

i dont want to make it sound easy - it's not-
and ive,been there-done that,and certainly  recognize the difficulty of finding someone
truly special and spending the time with them in a crazy relationship to get to the point of marriage.

As much time as i spent...getting to know my wife,..
looking back i was still crazy and yes *nuts*
 to take the risks (so was she)
but ultimately we trusted each other to be totally committed to making it work.

I think most in this venture are nuts..lol

(ok granted you are indeed an exception)

so i cant take much offence at the OPs thoughts on the matter..

[jb]

I just don't like to be told I'm crazy without an examination,,, even then there has to be an escape clause.  (is there an emotocon for a wife beating a husband over the head)

[jb]

The point is, perhaps to say, "a kid or two", is a natural part of the equation if a man has his crap together by the time he reaches 50.  I don't know what this man's desires are, and what he hopes to find in the FSU,,, maybe a virginal woman,,, if he's extra Christian, maybe she's gonna be a trophy, maybe not.

He's an idiot anyway... why bother...

[Turboguy]

If you are going to say you are 50'ish, and want an attractive girl, 20'ish, with no children or a past history, then I'll suggest you talk exclusively to T/G, because I sure don't want to hear you whine about your plight.   

Hey, I sure don't have any answers for anyone on that subject.  

Well, first off, it is not easy for anyone.   Even nice looking successful guys looking for a woman 5-10 years younger than they are have to work at it and need some luck.

I can relate to getting discouraged.   I gave up my search for a year and a half and only tripping over a gal I had written in the past and seeing that she was what I hoped to find got me interested again.   At the time I was using AFA and EC for meeting ladies.  When I gave up my search I had gone to a EC social in Moscow and S.P.   I thought I met someone special in S.P.   Made a trip back for 5 days, she blew through 3 grand in those 5 days and it was obvious she was not really into me.  That was just one more scammer in a long series and I really questioned if there really were sincere gals there.    

I think it would be a lot easier to judge the chances of success for you if you shared more details of what you goals are and what kind of luck you have in the USA.   If you are looking for a 21 year old beauty queen with no kids you are going to have a long hard search.   You mentioned you have made 3 trips or so.   I had months I made 3 trips.   Are you looking for a woman who has never had kids or will one whose kids are grown do?  

The more realistic your goals the more likelyhood of success without a long search.  Are yours really realistic?