back from Kaliningrad...

[Koluji Ezhik]

and sad to report that you gents were right. I should have listened 2 you guys. My trip was a living nightmare. I will post a trip report soon. Im still coming 2 terms with my ordeal. Long and short of it is I got my heart broken, horribly used by this girl. Its my fault 4 ignoring the many red flags, and great advice from you brilliant chaps. God help the next fool that doesnt listen to the experts like I did!

[BillyB]

and sad to report that you gents were right. I should have listened 2 you guys. My trip was a living nightmare. 

And to think, you called me negative and jaded. This place could've saved you and other newbies time, money, and spent emotions if you guys listen. That's not being negative and jaded, that's a positive and good thing! This is a FACT! There are women in the FSU that will take care of your money better than yourself. Women that will only marry you for love and not a green card. Women that won't pack her bags all the time and test you and women that won't treat you less than her best friends and the neighboorhood stray dog. Use your big head and find one. Walk away from any woman that gives you red flags, period.

Koluji, at least you have the balls, unlike others, to come back here and tell the results of your trip and hopefully you can be an asset here reminding others of what not to do. For those that don't know how this started, they can read here.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6196.msg112051#msg112051

[DKMM]

Hey we both had failed trips at the same time!  Sucks doesn't it?  But its far better to come home knowing that then to wonder what happened or what will be happening.  Be glad that you KNOW better from here on out.  Most guys go through an experience like this when they don't follow what the wise ones on here say (myself included).

Don't fall in love with an RW before she does with you.  You absolutely must avoid that.

[Serebro]

Don't fall in love with an RW before she does with you.  You absolutely must avoid that.

Wrong answer.
You never learn.
Your ex tried to teach you, that RW prefer ACTIVE men who like to act and show their feelings to you, but you prefer to sit quietly in a corner again and wait untill your next  love writes you that you should be a Man with her.

I have already written that RW like to BE women.
They want to feel that their men want to get them, to be with them, sometimes when RW say "no" it doesn't mean "no", they want you to insist, to be more active in getting what you want and showing your feelings to her, but many WM just say "ah, ok, she said no, so she doesn't want to see me".., she didn't answer the phone, it means that she doesn't want to speak.
I write her 3 letters a week, and she writes only 1 letter, maybe I should write  one letter only.//sometimes(very seldom from my experience) it's so, but very often it's a HUGE mistake, sometimes women like to feel themselves weak sensitive creatures and they expect you to call back when they stop the phone conversation acting like they are angry with you.It's a kind of a male-female role game.


Many Rw want to see you as a leader, an active "hunter", I don't know any who would like the man who says:"yes, m'am,", 'no, m'am".....

[Bluebell]

Wrong answer.
You never learn.
Your ex tried to teach you, that RW prefer ACTIVE men who like to act and show their feelings to you, but you prefer to sit quietly in a corner again and wait untill your next  love writes you that you should be a Man with her.

I have already written that RW like to BE women.
They want to feel that their men want to get them, to be with them, sometimes when RW say "no" it doesn't mean "no", they want you to insist, to be more active in getting what you want and showing your feelings to her, but many WM just say "ah, ok, she said no, so she doesn't want to see me".., she didn't answer the phone, it means that she doesn't want to speak.
I write her 3 letters a week, and she writes only 1 letter, maybe I should write  one letter only.//sometimes(very seldom from my experience) it's so, but very often it's a HUGE mistake, sometimes women like to feel themselves weak sensitive creatures and they expect you to call back when they stop the phone conversation acting like they are angry with you.It's a kind of a male-female role game.


Many Rw want to see you as a leader, an active "hunter", I don't know any who would like the man who says:"yes, m'am,", 'no, m'am".....

Excuse me, Serebro, but not even myself,  a woman, understand how a man will be more manly by acting the way you described. If I say no, that is a no, and no, I would not want to be convinced of the contrary, in fact, would get upset if somebody tried to insist on changing my mind. You are talking about a leader, an active hunter, but at the same time you expect this very leader to beg, to implore when you are angry, to play your game of weak sensitive creature. 
This type of game you pretend women (or better to say, RW) want their men to play seems to be quite tiring, manipulative and not attractive at all. Like a Latin-American soapopera.

[Rvrwind]

Ahhh...the young Padawan's are learning, albeit the hard way.
This warms my heart... & reveals that learning is not a dying art!

[DKMM]

Those kinds of games Serebro are exactly what a man older than 25 does not want to play.  I'll be who I am and either the woman will love it or she is not the one for me.  I know I am a good guy and some girls think I'm great and others do not.  I will give love to my woman but only when I know she will love me back.

My now ex wanted some of the same types of games.  Those are games of an insecure woman.  Needless to say, those are not games I am willing to play, especially when looking for wife (as opposed to just relations for fun).

[Serebro]

Excuse me, Serebro, but not even myself,  a woman, understand how a man will be more manly by acting the way you described. If I say no, that is a no, and no, I would not want to be convinced of the contrary, in fact, would get upset if somebody tried to insist on changing my mind. You are talking about a leader, an active hunter, but at the same time you expect this very leader to beg, to implore when you are angry, to play your game of weak sensitive creature. 
This type of game you pretend women (or better to say, RW) want their men to play seems to be quite tiring, manipulative and not attractive at all. Like a Latin-American soapopera.

Excuse me, too, Bluebell, but you don't understand what I am talking about.  your behavior seems to be more like that of a western woman, from what I have read in your posts before.
And too feministic, too, just remember your talks about possibilities of any RW to travel to any countries themselves, it's not so, but you insisted on that.
I have seen women with your points of view but they had their own companies, they were teachers at school and they definitely wanted "equal" or weak men in their life, they would like the behavior and your post on the whole.



I haven't spoken about bossy RW, who will never allow their men to hunt them, they will rather hunt their men, I have spoken about the middle class of RW who still try to divide work into"men's work-women's work."and who like to wear high heels shoes and wear feminine clothes.
you belonged to a different group of society(often met in cities like Moscow and St'Peters) who will never allow the man to be "above".

Can you see any difference between:to beg for a phone call and to give a phone call?!
That was what I meant.

[Serebro]

Those kinds of games Serebro are exactly what a man older than 25 does not want to play.  I'll be who I am and either the woman will love it or she is not the one for me.  I know I am a good guy and some girls think I'm great and others do not.  I will give love to my woman but only when I know she will love me back.

My now ex wanted some of the same types of games.  Those are games of an insecure woman.  Needless to say, those are not games I am willing to play, especially when looking for wife (as opposed to just relations for fun).

It's not a kind of a game, it's a kind of behavior.
It's different in the USA and it's different in Russia, for example.
when a RW says no it often doesn't mean no.
but it means no in the USA(for many AW)

[Serebro]

You are talking about a leader, an active hunter, but at the same time you expect this very leader to beg, to implore when you are angry, to play your game of weak sensitive creature. 
This type of game you pretend women (or better to say, RW) want their men to play seems to be quite tiring, manipulative and not attractive at all. Like a Latin-American soapopera.

this is the role which is given to them by the society they live in. As I have already said before It's less obvious in big cities but you can see it often in small Russian towns, and for many women it's not even a game, it's the way they are supposed to act.And I described the way the men ARE SUPPOSED to act.As I know DKMM(who never listens to me ) was going to turn to small Russian towns now as women tend to be more family oriented there and they are ready to move anywhere with the man they love(according to his words and ideas)but at the same time he is going to apply the model of the western society or a big Russian city's independent girl to this small russian town.
Every time I try to give "a hint" I am called stupid, immature and "strange"...noone wanted to listen to me when I was screaming about DKMM's mistakes  :wallbash:and noone wants to listen to me now, so I'd better shut up and turn to the reading of losers' stories.

[DKMM]

On the contrary Serebro, my ex tried to teach me the opposite.  I was pursuing her and she told me that a strong russian man will not try to pursue a woman but rather let the women pursue them.  She tried to get me to love her in parts instead of showing her my strong love for her (ask Jazzy, she knows).  Thus, my point of not falling in love before her because she wanted to hunt a little with me (after I already hunted her for a while).  that was the first problem I had with E, but she falls into that bossy woman you described.  The wrong one for me...  I need one of those "middle class" women you speak of.

You are right about the different behaviors. 

I didn't say I want the old fashioned small town girl.  Most RW are family oriented no matter where they come from (and that's important because I want a big happy family).  I met both and chose the big city independent girl as I was attracted to that.  I have no idea if that is what I want again but we'll see.

[Serebro]

On the contrary Serebro, my ex tried to teach me the opposite.  I was pursuing her and she told me that a strong russian man will not try to pursue a woman but rather let the women pursue them.  She tried to get me to love her in parts instead of showing her my strong love for her (ask Jazzy, she knows).  Thus, my point of not falling in love before her because she wanted to hunt a little with me (after I already hunted her for a while).  that was the first problem I had with E, but she falls into that bossy woman you described.  The wrong one for me...  I need one of those "middle class" women you speak of.

You are right about the different behaviors. 

I didn't say I want the old fashioned small town girl.  Most RW are family oriented no matter where they come from (and that's important because I want a big happy family).  I met both and chose the big city independent girl as I was attracted to that.  I have no idea if that is what I want again but we'll see.

It's interesting to observe how your ideas are changing from one thread to another...

Moving to America is not on the mind of every Russian these days, especially upwardly mobile young middle class professionals from Moscow....

  I somehow thought it was better to find a girl not motivated to leave so I knew here heart was in it for the right reasons, but maybe that is not the way to go.  Its probably better to find someone from a smaller city with less opportunities

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6394.0

this one is from another thread created by you

  She also pulled some antics saying that I need to be stricter with her (like Russian men) and not let her act however she wants.  That's rather childish but I seemed to handle it when I needed to.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6394.0

from what you wrote you didn't try to pursue her, you followed the line of least resistance, I have read your thread attentively since you started writing and complaining about mosquitos I have been asking you to act like a man...

her asking you to be a Man is another form of my words told to you.Following a woman isn't the same thing as pursuing her. That's what you and Bluebell try to imagine, that's not the same.
Following her and doing what she wants and says and giving no reaction to what she does isn't the same thing as catching her and reading her your rules of a leader...

[DKMM]

That thread I wrote about small town girls was how I felt at the time, having gone through issues with a Moscow girl.  I honestly don't care where they come from.

Thanks for being attentive but maybe you missed the part where I didn't let her act how she wanted.  It was me resisting her dominance that led us down the road of eventual breakup as she needed a man that will follow her or someone that will make her the slave.

There is an in between zone besides being someone's puppy and ruling over them.  That's the zone I live in.

Anyways I'm tired of arguing with RW, it usually gets pointless.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Anyways I'm tired of arguing with RW, it usually gets pointless.

You are learning.   


Thomas

[Misha]

Don't fall in love with an RW before she does with you.  You absolutely must avoid that.

Maybe, but keep in mind that the "click" happens with a woman in the first few minutes of meeting. The problem with men is that:

1. They fall in love with a fantasy woman before even meeting;
2. The woman tells them that they are not interested, yet they believe that somehow she WILL fall in love with them;
3. The men ignore all the signs that the woman did not fall in love with them and is simply playing them.

My wife fell for me on our first date. In two weeks she had agreed in principle to marry me. We have been married for over a year now and have been together for almost two years now.