looking for travel advice from the experienced

[Bruno]

Hello Doug,

"Marriage agency" is a general term... i use it for my personal homepage !!! And i think that interpreter is not need during the first date.. before, during the e-mail exchange... and after the first date, for more complex speaking...

Myself, i have never needed a interpreter... i have always think that english was a international language but i was surprised that several russian know the French language... Why ? Because France have always good relation with russia, ... and russian people see a lot of French film ( same system of TV : SECAM ... Europa is Pal and America NTSQ... )

Now, about Igor, it is a special situation... he is maybe one of the good between all the bad... if he contact me, i am ready to place some publicity for him on my website...

You write : " Well, I have said it before and I will say it again, any Western guy who limits his search for a potential Russian wife to those who already speak some English is seriously shooting himself in the foot. "

I have never say to limit the search to woman who speak english... but during the time between the first letter and the meeting, she can begin learn the language... i know nothing about the service of Igor but maybe he can learn quality English to ladies before meeting for a good price ... Why ? Because you cannot say all you feel and think to a interpreter... some subject are enough personal... sometime, very intimate... usualy, meeting are need for test the "alchimy"... can you speak about this with a interpreter between you and your ladies...

Ok, learn english is expensive for RW... but what is 100$ for us... and when i think that American speak always about private life... a interpreter during the first date... very romantic and intimate...

[Stirlitz]

Bruno,

You have some good points but I would not like you to see the downside only. First of all, a good professional interpreter can really help you 'break the ice'. As a professional, I see my end not in simply translating words. I am there to help two people to really understand each other, which is sometimes more than words. Sometimes so much depends on a single word. The first meeting is a sensitive thing. This is where you decide if you want to stay or rather go, and you don't want anything to prevent you from staying with your soulmate, but so little is needed to make you take the wrong step. I don't want to remember really gross examples when two people completely misunderstood each other (OK, OK, here is one: 'bored with you' instead of 'missing you', a classic example), but there are lots of situations when a lot depends on the tone of the voice, not the word. Yes, first date is a subtle thing if I can put it this way. She looks at your dirty nails and thinks that you are disgustful. She would think differently if she knew that you had to help a lady to change a flat tire just before meeting her and really did not have an opportunity to wash your hands, and if she had a chance to get to know your personality small details like nails would not matter to her at all. What do I mean? When there is lack of understanding, people resort to guesswork, judge from what they see. And this is the real pitfall. Because to guess right you must be absolutely relaxed and impartial which is very very hard for a modern person.

Yes, some women (and men) are not able to forget there is someone else there, and look more at the interpreter. Again it depends on the professional. I must assure you that I have the skills to correct it. Very soon you forget I am there. How do I achieve it? There are some techniques. I thought I would spare you of the details of my work, but I am afraid questions will follow, so here are some of the things. First, I educate people not to say things like 'Tell her I am…', 'Ask him if would like…', and I make them speak directly as if I were not there 'I am…', 'Would you like…'. Sooner or later the learn the rule and after some time it works. Subconsciously people believe they talk to each other directly. I actually do my best to make people talk directly to each other (even without understanding), looking at each other as they talk and listen, and I translate off screen. When you watch subtitled movies what is you pay all your attention to, small print at the bottom of the screen or something else?

Also I try to speak… how to say… in an 'even' way, I mean cadence, do you see what I mean? This makes me look more like a computer. Again, subconsciously people forget there is another human there and take me as a loudspeaker (probably human but recorded and out there). OK, that's enough divulging professional secrets. I can only tell you that I remember how some of my clients really forgot I was there and there were just the two of them standing together looking at each other eyes whispering something absolutely forgetting I was standing within two feet interpreting. Yes, you can possibly say they don't need any translation at this stage but the question is how did they get there?

Of course you have to be a real professional and I am not sure if $5 interpreters care about what I described.

Crowded three than a romantic two? I always try to be your friend you can trust. It helps too. When you are tete-a-tete with another person, it depends. You can be suspicious toward the other side. You may not feel right to say something directly (and this is where you are allowed to use 'tell her that…'). When there is someone else there and his message is 'hey I am your friend', you relax. Sometimes a third person is not wanted but sometimes you badly need someone else and feel awkward tete-a-tete. Sometimes you need a confidant, someone who is disinterested but also trustworthy and aware of your situation.

Also, romance is good but you do have to understand one another before you go really romantic.

If there is no chemistry the money you spend on the translator is wasted? Probably. If all you need is chemistry you don't really need a translator. At all. But in my experience it is not chemistry and even love that determines successful relationship. It is understanding (and respect; but how can you respect someone without understanding). Chemistry is good too but no chemistry will help you if there is no understanding. So many people fall in love at first sight and feel overwhelmed, yes they found the only one! only to divorce a year later when they find out some things about each other which they strongly dislike. I know it from my personal experience!

Your suggestion of basic communication is not a good idea in my view. It is virtually equal to no communication.

Also, about English speaking girls too. First, if you cut off all girls who cannot speak any English, you reduce your chances of meeting your soulmate drastically. Why are you sure she speaks English? Here you are standing there in the middle of Broadway, and there she is in a small town on the other end of the world. You say, only English speaking girls stay please… and she is gone, and all that is left is professional daters and green card girls.

By the way… In fact, a girl who is fluent in English is more likely to be one. Not 100% and it is definitely not a red flag, but you should note it too.

Also, studying English in our country is not so easy as it is in Europe. You have to be aggressive. But do you really want a firm, resolute and hard-working woman? Isn't it what you don't like about Western women who are more interested in careers and personal achievements rather than family and relationship?

Doug,

thank you for support. No goat can get my goat (ask Olga what it means; you have to know both English and Russian to understand this pun). You are quite right on 'marriage agencies' (by the way it makes me sick to see the term; first of all they are dating agencies; and they don't really care about marriage, so wtf). Yes I know lots of stories when agencies twist their clients into their apartments, cars, interpreters… even food. And they don't have their interpreters just to make more money. Very often the interpreter is there because it was he or she who was writing all those letters and if there an independent interpreter, truth may come out quickly. It is shameful that many girls don't actually mind. No they are never or rarely forced. They are quite happy to go out with someone who can spend lots of money on her, take her to fancy places, buy presents. In a way it is scam, but so hard to nail. If you use your own interpreter, at least you can be sure you are not deceived when you are there, even if your correspondence might have been fake. In fact, I called a girl the other day my client had wanted to correspond with (he found her profile on the net and I happened to know the girl). She said she was not interested in him, but… "if you like, you can write him something… if you want to make something. I don't mind". Of course I don't f…king need it, but that's the way some of them are. Perhaps too philosophical?

[Jack]

Hey Doug, next time when your in Simferopol, Sevastopol, Yalta and would rather pay Igor his $9 or $10 an hour over Eugene's $7, go ahead. If you think because Eugene is cheaper and might not be as qualified or as efficient as Igor, I would ask you to check the glowing remarks and references made about him in the post about Crimea. I have sent in the past, and continue to send today, many clients to Simferopol, to Sevastopol, to Yalta and EVERY client has marveled over the efficiency and professionalism that Eugene displays. Doug, not everyone is so gullible to believe if you pay more you necessarily get more.
 
We help over 200 men each year with interpreters. Many of these interpreters have worked with us for years. I have always told the interpreters that they quote me the prices they want to charge. We have a few interpreters who charge more than the majority and the client is told he can pay $7 for Helen of $5 for Julia, it's his choice. The client will ask me which is better and if they are equal I will tell him that and 90% of the time the client will choose the $5 an hour interpreter. I will only recommend good and honest and ethical interpreters Doug, I do not represent or recommend anything but quality interpreters. Interpreters who cannot have a conflict of interest by having interest in the man they represent. If I get three complaint's about one interpreter, I will stop using them. If I get two complaints on an interpreter we will talk with the interpreter. Our interpreters know how to act and treat their clients. If you or Igor have any doubts about the quality, professionalism or the $5 an hour interpreters we use, feel free to check out some of our many references and ask them about the interpreters they had. All our clients are told if you are not happy or comfortable with the interpreter you get to let me know, we will get you another one. Most of our clients prefer female interpreters over male interpreters by an 8 to 1 margin. These are the men's request, not mine. Our experienced clients are no different than the new clients, over 70% of our experienced clients prefer female interpreters over male interpreters. When guys want a good male interpreter we often recommend Rostick and Pavel who will travel with a man thru-out all of Ukraine.
 
Doug, if a client wants to pay you or Olga to deliver 1 rose at $35, or me to deliver one rose at $20, I can promise you we deliver that rose with at least the same efficiency as you. You get what you pay for you say? Why pay more? You want to charge a client $145 to deliver 21 long stem roses, we charge $115 for the same service and you think most guys are going to want to spend an extra $30 for the same service?  We send out a LOT of letters each year. For $5 we translate the letter into Russian, include the man's color photos, send on Russian or Ukraine stationary with Russian or Ukraine postage. You offer the same service for what, $9.75, $12-$15?  And if you have guys who would rather pay more for the same service, then what can I say, we just have different type of clients. Our clients are looking for the best service at the best price. You charge $75 to write a guys letter of introduction, I write   hundreds of letters of introduction for $20, not many guys are going to want to pay an extra $55 for the same service. And yes, I can hear your response, "well you get what you pay for" to which I will answer, you certainly do. My clients are very happy with the wording if the all important first letter of introduction and are even more happy with the results.
 
Doug their are some people, some agencies, who can just do quality work at lesser prices that others.

[BC]

hmm.. the advantages/disadvantages of different methods is quite interesting.. but isn't comparing prices and offers a wee bit commercial?

[Jack]

BC, just trying to show that just because someone has a higher price does not mean it is going to be better service, as someone was trying to say.

[BC]

Jack,

I guess on one side economics of scale has a lot to do with  the way companies price their services.  Doesn't really mean though that prices charged in a boutique (in the positive sense) are totally unjustified.  A company that mass produces(in the positive sense)a high quality product has a different business philosophy and marketing strategy than the smaller specialty shop.  

It's pretty much up to the customer to rationalize his purchase. I'm sure for example, if one of Stirlitzs' customers does not get served by Stirlitz himself they may not feel the price they paid is justified.  

Sounds stupid but I've turned down a great deal at an auto dealership because I didn't like how the salesman looked, maybe it was his tie. Cost me a couple hundred.. yeah customers are strange folks.

Igor is cute isn't he? ..and doesn't have a bag over his head.. (sorry.. but just couldn't resist the pun)

I'm sure you both will continue to have success serving your respective markets in your own unique and justifiable ways.

[Oatmeal]

Bravo Doug,

I think you stated some very important topics. 

[list=1]

• I agree that if you limit your search to only ladies who are fluent or speak good English, then you may just pass up some unbelievably beautiful ladies (inside and out). 

[/*]
[indent]
I should add that some men are quite uncomfortable with the fact that they might have to actually put some effort into communication and their relationship, but lets face it (IMHO) A successful relationship starts with both parties making efforts to meet each other in the middle, not one side busting their hump to accomodate the other side who is too lazy to make an effort.
[/indent]
[list=1]

• I understand what it is like to live under the poverty line.  I grew up under the poverty line and even spent about a year being paid drastically under the poverty line (a circumstance due to a family obligation)  I am aquainted to searching for pennies under seat cushions and under carpets to roll up and exchange at the bank. 

[/*]
[indent]
I am not so sure that everyone has had this experience, but I can assure you that life can truly suck in a way that many people don't really know.  I guess that is why I am so grateful for the job I have now. 

I'm not saying that you should just flush hard earned cash down the toilet or pay unreasonable rates but don't choke out their means for making a living by being cheap.  In my past I have paid a variety of different rates for interpreters but I always gave a big tip to those who I felt really tried to help me by giving me insights that otherwise would have wasted my time and money. 

In the long run, I think a good interpreter is actually worth a few extra bucks.  Good interpreters in my past have steered me clear of a few scammers that I might have otherwise fallen pray toand probably ended up spending a small fortune on anyway.

Another point is that I think we can all agree that the cost of living never goes down.  It always goes up.  I know that applies to Westerners as well but by proportion I believe that we have more spendable income than the average person in FSU.  I don't see any harm in paying a few extra bucks to a deserving person.  I should say at least that if you do hire an interpreter for $5/hour that you ought to leave a decent tip even if the service is just adequate.

I don't think you should portray yourself as mr moneybags but what sort of example are you setting for how Americans behave. 

Think about it.  Would you want someone to pay you less money just because someone down the street just agreed to do it for less.  Of course not.  It might force you to do a few jobs at cost but you wouldn't want to continue that trend over a longer time.  How would you survive.
[/indent]
Ok, I'm getting off my soap box finally.

Let the flaming begin!!!!

Jim

[Oatmeal]

Stirlitz,

I think Muzh's point is that the phone must be unlocked and also support the appropriate GSM band.  It will do you no good to have a GSM phone that will support the appropriate band but is locked.  Might as well talk into a rock.

My wife and I bought 2 Motorola phones that were unlocked and support the appropriate bands so that we could buy the SIM chips in Ukraine and use our phones there.  Plus we hate contracts so we just pay as we go here in the US anyway.

[Goombah]

Tell us more about buying unlocked phones here.  I have a Nokia 3100b from Cingular.  Its small, cute, but not particularly pleasant to use.  It has, oh, 17 months of so left on its contract.  It is a GSM tri-band I believe.

Any suggestions?

Kevin

[BC]

Kevin,

Call your cingular rep. Might be already unlocked.. Heard cingular did not lock some of their models. Tell them you will be travelling and using another sim for local calls (think they will understand).  If you know someone using another provider like ATT just switch chips and see if the phone works.

[acrzybear]

Well, I see everyones point of view but my opinion from personal experience is that sometimes you have to pay more in order to save money (confused?).  Here's what I mean, from my first post of explaining my first meeting in Odessa and the agency serving their best interests and trying to get every dollar they could from me, I decided to go with an independent translator that cost $10.00 an hour.  I will admit it was akward at first, but after about half an hour I was comfortable and did not even think about the translator and things went smoothly.  I talked to the translator afterwards and she gave me a debriefing if you will about how things went ( I thought they went well, but it never hurts to get a second opinion) and some pointers for the future.  I spent $60.00 for one evening just for the translator and all in all I felt it was money well spent.  As Igor said when you are dealing with two different cultures things can get misconstrued, example from one of my other postings is when we went to a nice dinner and I paid around 120 Hyverna I did not think twice about it, but she was perturbed because she thought I was trying to impress her by spending money.  I was able to explain through the translator that by standards in the U.S I was not spending alot of money and the same amount might not even pay for a good steak dinner for one person.

I would say as with any type of product or service it comes down to supply and demand.  If you have a lot of good translators and not much work for them it will be cheaper, but if there aren't many good ones, then you will pay more.  I personally do not mind spending a few extra dollars for something as important as finding a partner.

  Just my humble opinion (and does anyone want to disagree with a 6'5" man that carries a gun for a living?):cool: 

  

  

 

   

[Oatmeal]

Something to check out.

Cingular is switching their system from their old format to the GSM system.  They currently use both technologies in their phones.  You may want to see if this dual technology will interfere with systems that operate only on GSM.

My wife and I didn't want to take a chance with that issue so we both bought the Motorola V180.  We bought if off e-bay which supports the 900-1800 GSM bands they use in Europe and the phones were unlocked.

I am not sure if you can sign up on a contract if the phones are unlocked but again my wife and I hate contracts so we just use prepaid.

[Goombah]

Call my singular rep?  The idiot who didn't know the difference between voice activated calling and the ability to take a 30 second memo?  Zero faith in anything he says.

I'll try swapping the SIM with a friend.

Thanks!

Kevin

[BC]

Goombah.. lol that's outsourcing for ya!

[Stirlitz]

[align=justify]In 1999 when I was charging even less than $5, I tried to save literally every cent. I would try and give the tram conductor 40 kopeykas instead of 50 with no ticket (so he gets it the money directly to his pocket and is interested). I would bargain down every purchase I made (I only shopped at the local market). I did not have an idea what a tip was. I could never afford more than basic things. Paying someone more than I can pay someone else? No thanks!![/align]
[align=justify]

[align=justify]No I am different. I never blow money. But I don't mind paying someone more than someone else, leaving a tip, etc. And when I choose from many offers of course I like the cheaper ones but it's not the price that leads me make the final choice. Usually it's something unimportant like I-don't-like-his-tie (of course if I get reasonable offers). It's different mentality. I have seen so many Americans who think they are rich but they are beggars. I believe that money is like gas. If you gun your car you will blow gas quicker and may crash your car. If you are afraid to touch the accelerator, it will not take you far. The happy medium is as usual somewhere in-between. Between being extravagant and tight.[/align]
[/align]
[align=justify]And, it's correct that a good translator may help you save money. One of my clients at another board gave me a plug and told other guys that even though my fees were not low, it was worth it just because I saved him even more than he spent.[/align]

[Albert]

Regarding paying for interpreters.  Those who say you get what you pay for are full of sheet.  People and retailers, etc., who charge more than others do not always deliver more service or higher quality service or products.  Shirts that cost $75 in one store are not necessarily better than shirts that sell for $18 in another store.  It is all a crap shoot.

The sensible policy is to try a product or service at the low end of the cost spectrum.  If it suits your purpose, then you are happy and have saved money.  If you are unhappy, then perhaps bump your budget up a notch and try another person or product.

I have never met Jack nor dealt with Jack for any of his services.  However, he has had very little except for glowing reports on many boards.  So when he says that he can get you an interpreter for $5 that many guys have been happy with, then I believe it and would certainly go with his people if I needed someone.  I would never start of paying someone more than the minimum until I came to conclusion that the person I was first working with was not doing an adequate job.

Some say the more expensive guy saved them money in long run by doing this or that.  I think the less expensive interpreters probably do the same types of things.  Again, I would give them a try first.  Regardless, it is always a crap shoot until the product or service is first experienced.  You can only go with recommendations from others.  If $5 interpreters are recommended by some of my friends and $10 interpreters are recommended by other friends, I definately will go with the $5 person.  Same thing goes for recommended restaurants, clothes, cars, etc. 

Higher prices do in no way guarantee better quality.  If anything, they only are an indication of good marketing.

[Muzh]

Not completely true.  Any unlocked Tri-band cell will serve this purpose.  You can get good ones in the States.  I just bought a Sony Ericsson, brand new and factory unlocked for $149.00 and plan to use it here and in UA.

What does it matter. The phone must support the GSM technology anyway, be it a triband or dual or simply GSM-900.
[/quote]
 

My point is that dual band (800, 1800) will not work in UA.  In addition, if you buy a triband that is factory unlocked you will avoid major dissapointment since it will be very easy to put in your PIN assigned by a SIM vendor in UA.

[Muzh]

Kevin,

Call your cingular rep. Might be already unlocked.. Heard cingular did not lock some of their models. Tell them you will be travelling and using another sim for local calls (think they will understand). If you know someone using another provider like ATT just switch chips and see if the phone works.

 

I have Cingular and , no, they will not unlock their phone for you.  It is basically useless in Europe.  Google for factory unlocked tribands and you can get real good deals.

[Muzh]

Call my singular rep? The idiot who didn't know the difference between voice activated calling and the ability to take a 30 second memo? Zero faith in anything he says.

I'll try swapping the SIM with a friend.

Thanks!

Kevin

 

Kevin, this works to your advantage.  First, Cingular sells you phone service so it doesn't  matter if you buy a phone from them or if you have your own phone, as long as it is unlocked and meet their systems requirements.  The reason these companies are reluctant to unlock your phone is because what you just said, "you'll swap SIM cards."  Also, there is a good chance you will fry your phone.

You can go to any Best Buy and bring your unlocked phone to let the Cingular guys register it.  If the give you any hassles, tell them it is none of their damn business what you are doing with your new phone.

[Goombah]

Muzh writes:  Also, there is a good chance you will fry your phone.

Explain please?  How can swapping a SIM fry a phone?

Kevin

[Michelangelo]

Hey, guys....I need some local intel on Ukriane.

I am goning to Zaporozhye to meet a girl. I assume I fly to Dnepropetrovsk, right?  But I am having problems finding flights.  From the US, where is the best connection near Dnepropetrivsk and what airline(s)?

[Michelangelo]

Yes, you need an unlocked phone or it will not work with a local SIM.  Yes, your cinguar SIM will work, but will cost you 75 cents per minute in Ukraine or 27 cents per minute in Russian if you sign up for their (Cingular) international rates.

[Doug Salem]

Hi Mike,

It's Aerosvit Airlines (Ukrainian). They fly from New York to Kiev, then on to Denpropetrovsk. (I always have to pull my tounge straight after that one).

- Doug Salem

[Jet]

Yes, you need an unlocked phone or it will not work with a local SIM. Yes, your cinguar SIM will work, but will cost you 75 cents per minute in Ukraine or 27 cents per minute in Russian if you sign up for their (Cingular) international rates.

It will probably cost substantially more than that! On top of the Cingular Int'l rates, there will be additional charges from the local affiliate who is actually providing the service; these "extra" charges can be as high as $4.00 a minute. Buy the factory unlocked phone, it will save you a bunch.

[Doug Salem]

By the way, Jack,

That was pretty slimy. I think a double-bag would have been better than the weird red circle thing. God forbid the potential clients you are so aggressively marketing should see what you actually look like.

If a guy is so friggin lame and helpless that he needs some charlatan to take him around FSU holding him by the hand, then he's got no business getting married to a woman from ANY country. Shame on you for helping them mess their lives up even more than they already are. Preying on other people's insecurities. What was the last scam, scaring old folks into re-roofing their houses? With 200 roofs per month, you must be getting the absolute best shingles for the best price, eh? 

If you are low-balling in the flower delivery segment, then you are no doubt making up your loss and then some in the scam department. Let me guess, zero percent interest and no payments for six months on a personally guided tour of FSU where the wise old you will protect clueless little me from all of those terrible Russian scammers? Wow, what  a deal! Where do I sign?

Or maybe it's too hard to face being a nobody in your own country so you get a bunch of other guys to pay for you to screw off in la-la land where you feel like a big shot ("big in Japan" syndrome.)

- D.S.